Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Vamps on 23 June 2012, 01:09:01
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We have just moved into some lovely new offices, a couple of months ago and today we got the new phones in, hugely expensive and you have to put in the local code even to phone a local number :( :( all spanking new refurbished by the NHS, no expense spared....tis a long story but I can not express my disgust at the expense spent..... >:( >:( >:(
To be told that in September we are moving again to a 60's multi story office block that can only be described as depressing having visited today, funnily enough 10 years ago I was in this building, seemed OK then ::) ::)
Point I want to make is the NHS waste so much money it should be a criminal offence, you would not believe it.... :-X I don't work for the NHS, from a personal point of view I have received excellent health care, from a professional point of view their community services should be looked, cost wise, robustly...... :-X :-X
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Which is why I will never have sympathy with those who constantly bleat about the "savage NHS cuts" (there arent any),the doctors who go on strike to try to retain a ludicrous pay package that they should never have been given in the first place,or the countless managers on the enormous gravy train who have done so much damage to the NHS but think they have a god given right to run the whole thing for their own benifit rather than the patients.
The fact that it is in the top ten employers (in terms of numbers) in the world is a national disgrace imo. >:( >:(
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There is a lot of waste in the NHS. A good example being NHS logistics. I am sure that their prices can be significantly reduced, but getting rid of them is impossible. Managers seem incapable of cutting anything but clinical budgets, which unsurprisingly is what needs to be increased.
Would be interesting to hear more. What part of the NHS is it? Why are you moving etc?
Albs:
The doctors strike was not for pay packets as you put it, but with regards to the pension scheme. Surely as a working group, do you think they have no rights?
All emergency services still continued to function, as did all cancer services. It was only elective (i.e. planned) work that was cancelled. When the bloody tube drivers strike, nothing works, yet NHS employees who work in central london are expected to get to work by any means possible. For me that was cycling 9 miles to work, not much fun I can tell you.
A consultants salary is 75k pa. The very same tube drivers are getting 60k pa? It takes about 12 years of extremely hard graft to get to being a consultant in the NHS and the pay packet is only 15k more than a tube driver? I mean seriously? The costs of medical indemnity and memberships to keep going run into thousands per year. Yet they are just above a "TFL tube driver"!
And lets take the olympics as an example. Tube/bus/TFL staff are all upset because of the increased workload during the Olympics and want a bigger bonus! Lets look at doctors/nurses/allied health professionals who work in the same geographical area. Clearly their work load will also significantly increase. Do they get a bonus? No! Do they get any pay supplements? No! Is trying to get to work mean leaving home even earlier due to the increased number of commuters? Yes! Has any provision been made to help with transport during the Olympics? No!
As a group of people who have to work extremely hard, be as careful as possible due to the fact that peoples lives are on the line; doctors/nurses don't seem to get any rights and for a day of protest that happens once in a very long time (remember the last time it happened?) everyone wants to give it the most negative spin that they can.
Go on then, pay the bloody politicians/bankers/actors/footballers more. Surely they deserve they 150k + that they earn.
Rant over.
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There is a lot of waste in the NHS. A good example being NHS logistics. I am sure that their prices can be significantly reduced, but getting rid of them is impossible. Managers seem incapable of cutting anything but clinical budgets, which unsurprisingly is what needs to be increased.
Would be interesting to hear more. What part of the NHS is it? Why are you moving etc?
Albs:
The doctors strike was not for pay packets as you put it, but with regards to the pension scheme. Surely as a working group, do you think they have no rights?
All emergency services still continued to function, as did all cancer services. It was only elective (i.e. planned) work that was cancelled. When the bloody tube drivers strike, nothing works, yet NHS employees who work in central london are expected to get to work by any means possible. For me that was cycling 9 miles to work, not much fun I can tell you.
A consultants salary is 75k pa. The very same tube drivers are getting 60k pa? It takes about 12 years of extremely hard graft to get to being a consultant in the NHS and the pay packet is only 15k more than a tube driver? I mean seriously? The costs of medical indemnity and memberships to keep going run into thousands per year. Yet they are just above a "TFL tube driver"!
And lets take the olympics as an example. Tube/bus/TFL staff are all upset because of the increased workload during the Olympics and want a bigger bonus! Lets look at doctors/nurses/allied health professionals who work in the same geographical area. Clearly their work load will also significantly increase. Do they get a bonus? No! Do they get any pay supplements? No! Is trying to get to work mean leaving home even earlier due to the increased number of commuters? Yes! Has any provision been made to help with transport during the Olympics? No!
As a group of people who have to work extremely hard, be as careful as possible due to the fact that peoples lives are on the line; doctors/nurses don't seem to get any rights and for a day of protest that happens once in a very long time (remember the last time it happened?) everyone wants to give it the most negative spin that they can.
Go on then, pay the bloody politicians/bankers/actors/footballers more. Surely they deserve they 150k + that they earn.
Rant over.
With all due respect D, how many days work do they do for that 75K ?
Last I heard they worked about 2 days per week for the NHS. and then 2 days in private hospitals. It would not be so bad if they where paid pro rata for the hours they work but no they get the full money.
If I have been informed badly please feel free to put me right. The truth would be nice to know.
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With all due respect D, how many days work do they do for that 75K ?
Last I heard they worked about 2 days per week for the NHS. and then 2 days in private hospitals. It would not be so bad if they where paid pro rata for the hours they work but no they get the full money.
If I have been informed badly please feel free to put me right. The truth would be nice to know.
Salaries cannot be based only on how many days work are done. E.g. what is done in those days, what training is required, how many people wanna do that job, experience, track record etc etc etc
I have worked with many people who do a "40 hour week". No they don't. They are present for 40 hours
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A few years ago I had first hand experience of this waste. I worked for a company savagely cutting its costs and overheads whilst supplying services to the NHS in the East Midlands. It is easy to spend other folks money.
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Many striking Doctors were GPs, who earn on average £131k pa and have an average pension of £68k. About 5% of GPs in busy practices earn £200k+ and when they retire have pensions of over £100k pa. About 80% of the cost of their pensions is paid by tax payers.
The last Government made a complete mess in renegotiating GPs contracts which saw them doubling, which was a far bigger increase than virtually any other worker. So no I don't agree with GPs striking where they are being made to contribute more.
Personally, I think all civil service pensions should be totally employer / employee funded into a privately administered scheme, so each employee has a pension fund. This is then on the same basis as most of the private sector and self-employed. This will also mean that you will get a pension, because when this country goes bankrupt between 2015 and 2020 unfunded civil service pensions, I'm sure will be one of the first areas to be severely curtailed as part of making the country solvent again under IMF direction.
We can all pick groups of workers and complain they are paid so much and my job is so much more important, so I should get paid lots more. Simple question, is there a massive shortage of doctors? No, then pay is sufficient to fill most vacancies. Tube drivers have priced themselves out of the market, which is why in the next 5 years they are being replaced with automated trains, good riddance too them as far as I'm concerned.
We have a vast, bloated, inefficient, wealth sapping public sector that needs to be vastly curtailed. Personally, I would cut all budgets with the exception of defense and the police by an immediate 50% to the sort of GDP % levels they were before McRuin spayed tax payers money around like slurry from a tanker, hoping some would stick to the wall to improve things, where we all know, most of it has gone down the drain. With the money saved I would give every worker in the country a massive pay rise, yes its very easy, it is called a tax cut.
UK PLC is rapidly losing income and ground too its much more efficient competitors like China, India, Eastern European, South America etc, until we cut public services back to the historical level of about 32% or less as 25% is about optimum for a thriving private sector, there will be no significant growth in the UK economy.
The Tiger and BRIC countries are expecting Western societies especially Western Europe to become 3rd world countries in terms of wealth in the next 50 years, personally, I also convinced of this, unless there is a dramatic change of political direction. Vote UKIP.
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75 grand ???
My cousin has been a doctor for around 15 years now.
She has done the rounds at the local infirmary.
Nowdays, she is a partner in a pratice near where she lives.
Believe me, she earns (loose term) well into into 6 figures and she knows the GP's guidlines inside out.
She and her partners point blank refuse to see anymore then the minimum patients per day that they can get away with >:( >:(
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With all due respect D, how many days work do they do for that 75K ?
Last I heard they worked about 2 days per week for the NHS. and then 2 days in private hospitals. It would not be so bad if they where paid pro rata for the hours they work but no they get the full money.
If I have been informed badly please feel free to put me right. The truth would be nice to know.
Salaries cannot be based only on how many days work are done. E.g. what is done in those days, what training is required, how many people wanna do that job, experience, track record etc etc etc
I have worked with many people who do a "40 hour week". No they don't. They are present for 40 hours
I assume you have never worked on production line then ;D Or on a building site, A building site destroyed my health thanks to very long hours and constant work, you got about 30 minutes for lunch, if you wanted a morning cup of tea or a fag you had it while working. Are you really saying I and many others don't work in the time we are at work. I still work many hours, in a not quite so physical role, I get no tea breaks and 15 minutes for lunch if I get lunch at all. I do it for my customers and to keep me in a job, how many doctors/consultants work to keep there customers happy ? The difference is I lose my job if customers go elsewhere. How many doctors are threatened with the sack even if they don't perform.
I am sure doctors and consultants "work" really hard in there nice consulting rooms, Yes I am well aware of salary differentials. Does not make it right though.
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There is a lot of waste in the NHS. A good example being NHS logistics. I am sure that their prices can be significantly reduced, but getting rid of them is impossible. Managers seem incapable of cutting anything but clinical budgets, which unsurprisingly is what needs to be increased.
Would be interesting to hear more. What part of the NHS is it? Why are you moving etc?
Albs:
The doctors strike was not for pay packets as you put it, but with regards to the pension scheme. Surely as a working group, do you think they have no rights?
All emergency services still continued to function, as did all cancer services. It was only elective (i.e. planned) work that was cancelled. When the bloody tube drivers strike, nothing works, yet NHS employees who work in central london are expected to get to work by any means possible. For me that was cycling 9 miles to work, not much fun I can tell you.
A consultants salary is 75k pa. The very same tube drivers are getting 60k pa? It takes about 12 years of extremely hard graft to get to being a consultant in the NHS and the pay packet is only 15k more than a tube driver? I mean seriously? The costs of medical indemnity and memberships to keep going run into thousands per year. Yet they are just above a "TFL tube driver"!
And lets take the olympics as an example. Tube/bus/TFL staff are all upset because of the increased workload during the Olympics and want a bigger bonus! Lets look at doctors/nurses/allied health professionals who work in the same geographical area. Clearly their work load will also significantly increase. Do they get a bonus? No! Do they get any pay supplements? No! Is trying to get to work mean leaving home even earlier due to the increased number of commuters? Yes! Has any provision been made to help with transport during the Olympics? No!
As a group of people who have to work extremely hard, be as careful as possible due to the fact that peoples lives are on the line; doctors/nurses don't seem to get any rights and for a day of protest that happens once in a very long time (remember the last time it happened?) everyone wants to give it the most negative spin that they can.
Go on then, pay the bloody politicians/bankers/actors/footballers more. Surely they deserve they 150k + that they earn.
Rant over.
D, I reffered to the pay package (which includes pension) not pay packets. ;) As far as Im concerned they are not a working group,they are public servants and I believe that public servants of any description should not have a legal right to go out on strike.
As Rods2 alluded to,the Labour govt. gave the doctotrs an absolutely ludicrous pay settlement which the country was never going to be able to afford in the long term.GP,s earn six figure salaries,up to nearly half a million a year in some cases and the lump sum plus monthly payments they recieve on retirement are eye watering. This is for a hell of a lot less work than they used to do.
A mate of mine (recently retired from a lifetime in the NHS,including healthcare trust director) was earning £75 per hour 10 years ago.His wife has just retired from being a GP. He tells me they have a right to all this money regardless of whats happening in the wider economy.Sorry,but the world doesnt work like that.They need to be made to live in the real world. I told him I probably pay more money towards his pension fund than I do into my own,and Im facked if Im going to pay any more.
As for tube drivers getting bonuses during the Olympics - dont get me started. Sack the lot of them and see how many hundreds of applications there are for every single one of their jobs.Bonuses belong in the private sector where an employer decides to share the profits of the company with employess of the company as a reward for their part in generating those profits.
It will always be the case that there will be people in the private sector who earn lots of money.Its market value which dictates this as far as sports/ entertainment people are concerned, and the profitabilty of the companies concerned in business. There have of course been exceptions to this recently in the financial sector,but thats changing a lot more than the tabloids would have you believe.
Aconsultants basic pay may be £75k but I bet a pound to a penny that the total package in almost all cases amounts to several times that figure.If people want to earn mega bucks they should be part of a business and bank their share of the profits.
If they want to care for people they should wish to be reasonably well rewarded for their skills,but shouldnt have a greedy attitude towards the public purse regardless of how much money is in the purse imo.
The public sector is funded by the taxes of the private sector.If tax revenues drop (and they have dropped dramatically recently,with no sign of them returning to previous levels) the amount of money going to the public sector must drop accordingly. Its as simple as that tbh.
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There is a lot of waste in the NHS. A good example being NHS logistics. I am sure that their prices can be significantly reduced, but getting rid of them is impossible. Managers seem incapable of cutting anything but clinical budgets, which unsurprisingly is what needs to be increased.
Would be interesting to hear more. What part of the NHS is it? Why are you moving etc?
Albs:
The doctors strike was not for pay packets as you put it, but with regards to the pension scheme. Surely as a working group, do you think they have no rights?
All emergency services still continued to function, as did all cancer services. It was only elective (i.e. planned) work that was cancelled. When the bloody tube drivers strike, nothing works, yet NHS employees who work in central london are expected to get to work by any means possible. For me that was cycling 9 miles to work, not much fun I can tell you.
A consultants salary is 75k pa. The very same tube drivers are getting 60k pa? It takes about 12 years of extremely hard graft to get to being a consultant in the NHS and the pay packet is only 15k more than a tube driver? I mean seriously? The costs of medical indemnity and memberships to keep going run into thousands per year. Yet they are just above a "TFL tube driver"!
And lets take the olympics as an example. Tube/bus/TFL staff are all upset because of the increased workload during the Olympics and want a bigger bonus! Lets look at doctors/nurses/allied health professionals who work in the same geographical area. Clearly their work load will also significantly increase. Do they get a bonus? No! Do they get any pay supplements? No! Is trying to get to work mean leaving home even earlier due to the increased number of commuters? Yes! Has any provision been made to help with transport during the Olympics? No!
As a group of people who have to work extremely hard, be as careful as possible due to the fact that peoples lives are on the line; doctors/nurses don't seem to get any rights and for a day of protest that happens once in a very long time (remember the last time it happened?) everyone wants to give it the most negative spin that they can.
Go on then, pay the bloody politicians/bankers/actors/footballers more. Surely they deserve they 150k + that they earn.
Rant over.
With all due respect D, how many days work do they do for that 75K ?
Last I heard they worked about 2 days per week for the NHS. and then 2 days in private hospitals. It would not be so bad if they where paid pro rata for the hours they work but no they get the full money.
If I have been informed badly please feel free to put me right. The truth would be nice to know.
You most definitely have been misinformed. None of my colleagues do any private work of any sort. Full time in the NHS is 60 hrs per week plus weekends on call, long days etc. Its not as easy as you make it out to be. Plus if you have to stay back longer because someone is sick; you do not get paid overtime. Probably the only job where no one gets paid overtime. In fact, the EU working time directive suggests you stop working and leave! But how can anyone with any moral obligation do that. I constantly stay back beyond my prescribed working hours because some one isn't well/deteriorates acutely. For e.g. this Friday gone by. I was supposed to finish at 5pm, I left work at 6:45pm. Do I get anything for it? Only the satisfaction that I have tried to help someone out.
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Seems I have the wrong section... :-\
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75 grand ???
My cousin has been a doctor for around 15 years now.
She has done the rounds at the local infirmary.
Nowdays, she is a partner in a pratice near where she lives.
Believe me, she earns (loose term) well into into 6 figures and she knows the GP's guidlines inside out.
She and her partners point blank refuse to see anymore then the minimum patients per day that they can get away with >:( >:(
Gp's are a completely different kettle of fish. IMHO, I do think they are overpaid. This started because the Labour govt. wanted to recruit more doctors into general practice. So they upped salaries, gave GP's the option to opt out of being on call. FFS, why do that? What is the point of a GP that cannot be on call?
Then in their infinite wisdom they decided to establish performance based target for GPs. Except the performance targets did not equate to better outcomes for patients, just fatter pay checks for GPs.
GP's do start at 100k+ which I think is completely wrong. The current training scheme for GPs is poor. They train for 2yrs as a trainee, then 1 year as a GP trainee, then start getting ludicrous sums of money without even being on call. Absolutely ridiculous.
Most of the time I am on call I spend time speaking to a significant proportion of GPs who cannot even read an ECG. FFS, an ECG is a basic aid to diagnosing a variety of problems and they cannot even interpret one! So don't even get me started on GPs. Or the incompetent receptionists who man the phones at their practices. I mean why should a receptionist know why I have to speak to my doctor? There are good GPs, but I feel they make up too small a proportion.
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Should have kept my mouth shut....... ::) ::) ::)
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D, I reffered to the pay package (which includes pension) not pay packets. ;) As far as Im concerned they are not a working group,they are public servants and I believe that public servants of any description should not have a legal right to go out on strike.
As Rods2 alluded to,the Labour govt. gave the doctotrs an absolutely ludicrous pay settlement which the country was never going to be able to afford in the long term.GP,s earn six figure salaries,up to nearly half a million a year in some cases and the lump sum plus monthly payments they recieve on retirement are eye watering. This is for a hell of a lot less work than they used to do.
A mate of mine (recently retired from a lifetime in the NHS,including healthcare trust director) was earning £75 per hour 10 years ago.His wife has just retired from being a GP. He tells me they have a right to all this money regardless of whats happening in the wider economy.Sorry,but the world doesnt work like that.They need to be made to live in the real world. I told him I probably pay more money towards his pension fund than I do into my own,and Im facked if Im going to pay any more.
As for tube drivers getting bonuses during the Olympics - dont get me started. Sack the lot of them and see how many hundreds of applications there are for every single one of their jobs.Bonuses belong in the private sector where an employer decides to share the profits of the company with employess of the company as a reward for their part in generating those profits.
It will always be the case that there will be people in the private sector who earn lots of money.Its market value which dictates this as far as sports/ entertainment people are concerned, and the profitabilty of the companies concerned in business. There have of course been exceptions to this recently in the financial sector,but thats changing a lot more than the tabloids would have you believe.
Aconsultants basic pay may be £75k but I bet a pound to a penny that the total package in almost all cases amounts to several times that figure.If people want to earn mega bucks they should be part of a business and bank their share of the profits.
If they want to care for people they should wish to be reasonably well rewarded for their skills,but shouldnt have a greedy attitude towards the public purse regardless of how much money is in the purse imo.
The public sector is funded by the taxes of the private sector.If tax revenues drop (and they have dropped dramatically recently,with no sign of them returning to previous levels) the amount of money going to the public sector must drop accordingly. Its as simple as that tbh.
So only the private sector has a right to strike? I am afraid I disagree.
GP's, not hospital doctors. Their salaries have remain unchanged.
Rarely are they 500k, again like you said tabloid style statements. A few surgical consultants who do a lot of private work probably make close to that amount.
Trust director? Manager? Probably true.
Sounds like an idiot, I agree.
Several times that? Your having a laugh aren't you. Once again you are imagining salaries that don't exist in hospital practice. Quite happy to show you my pay slips, none of them are anywhere near the so called multiples (not even twice) that you claim. I really don't know where you get these imaginary figures from. I mean I drive an Omega so that I can save for the deposit on a very modest mortgage. How I wish your imagined salary scales were true.
Greedy? When people complain that their car insurance has rocketed from £250 to £500, yet my blooming medical indemnity insurance costs about 1k pa. 40% tax, 11% NI, professional memberships and journals cost about 1.5k, how much do you think I actually save? Let me tell you that it isn't a lot.
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Yep,private sector employees sell their services to an employer and can withdraw services and possibly face the consequences.Public sector workers are public servants and paid from the publics wages to serve them.I dont believe they should have the right to strike.
If I am misinformed about hospital doctors salaries then I apoligise.But I find it difficult to believe that the upper limit is £75k tbh,but am willing to be proved wrong.
I take it from your post that you are a consultant D ?
I would add,Im not anti NHS, far from it.I just think that in certain areas it is in dire need of a good shake up and bringing into the real world.There are of course many good commited people working in it,and they are most likely more frustrated by the whole thing than people like me are. ;)
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There is a lot of waste in the NHS. A good example being NHS logistics. I am sure that their prices can be significantly reduced, but getting rid of them is impossible. Managers seem incapable of cutting anything but clinical budgets, which unsurprisingly is what needs to be increased.
Would be interesting to hear more. What part of the NHS is it? Why are you moving etc?
Albs:
The doctors strike was not for pay packets as you put it, but with regards to the pension scheme. Surely as a working group, do you think they have no rights?
All emergency services still continued to function, as did all cancer services. It was only elective (i.e. planned) work that was cancelled. When the bloody tube drivers strike, nothing works, yet NHS employees who work in central london are expected to get to work by any means possible. For me that was cycling 9 miles to work, not much fun I can tell you.
A consultants salary is 75k pa. The very same tube drivers are getting 60k pa? It takes about 12 years of extremely hard graft to get to being a consultant in the NHS and the pay packet is only 15k more than a tube driver? I mean seriously? The costs of medical indemnity and memberships to keep going run into thousands per year. Yet they are just above a "TFL tube driver"!
And lets take the olympics as an example. Tube/bus/TFL staff are all upset because of the increased workload during the Olympics and want a bigger bonus! Lets look at doctors/nurses/allied health professionals who work in the same geographical area. Clearly their work load will also significantly increase. Do they get a bonus? No! Do they get any pay supplements? No! Is trying to get to work mean leaving home even earlier due to the increased number of commuters? Yes! Has any provision been made to help with transport during the Olympics? No!
As a group of people who have to work extremely hard, be as careful as possible due to the fact that peoples lives are on the line; doctors/nurses don't seem to get any rights and for a day of protest that happens once in a very long time (remember the last time it happened?) everyone wants to give it the most negative spin that they can.
Go on then, pay the bloody politicians/bankers/actors/footballers more. Surely they deserve they 150k + that they earn.
Rant over.
With all due respect D, how many days work do they do for that 75K ?
Last I heard they worked about 2 days per week for the NHS. and then 2 days in private hospitals. It would not be so bad if they where paid pro rata for the hours they work but no they get the full money.
If I have been informed badly please feel free to put me right. The truth would be nice to know.
You most definitely have been misinformed. None of my colleagues do any private work of any sort. Full time in the NHS is 60 hrs per week plus weekends on call, long days etc. Its not as easy as you make it out to be. Plus if you have to stay back longer because someone is sick; you do not get paid overtime. Probably the only job where no one gets paid overtime. In fact, the EU working time directive suggests you stop working and leave! But how can anyone with any moral obligation do that. I constantly stay back beyond my prescribed working hours because some one isn't well/deteriorates acutely. For e.g. this Friday gone by. I was supposed to finish at 5pm, I left work at 6:45pm. Do I get anything for it? Only the satisfaction that I have tried to help someone out.
Fair enough D I stand corrected. Only thing I would add is I don't get overtime pay either, and I do quite a bit of it. Thanks for putting me right :y
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No Albs, the upper limit is not 75k. After 6 years of med school (with a god knows how large student loan hanging over your head), 1 yr as a houseman, 3 years as a senior house officer, then 5 to 7 years of being a registrar, plus 2-3 yrs of research (optional, but most people do it). Thats 15 - 19 years of training to be a consultant. During these years you earn between 20 - 40k (slow increments to the top), plus a small supplement due to hours of being on call. Then you start at 75k. If you are willing to do more than the usual hours then you can get more, but who in their right minds wants to be taking on even more work in exchange for a hit on their family? So most people compromise and go for a fair amount of extra work and settle at about the 90k figure. But remember this carries with it a 40% tax and 11%NI, X% pension, professional indemnity insurance, royal college membership, specialty membership, journals and publication membership all of which costs significant amounts of money.
For eg: just one of the 5 journal/online databases I subscribe to is uptodate https://www.uptodate.com/store. Have a look at the annual membership costs, yup $500, its not a mistake/typo.
I am not struggling to make ends meet, but I am not rolling in it either.
Surgeons make a good proportion more. Possibly due to private work, I am not exactly certain. But then you exchange your evenings and weekends for it. Its quality of life versus income.
GP's seem to make money disproportionate to levels of training, on calls and working hours. I am sure they would disagree, but they generally start at 100k+ easily. And I think this needs to be addressed.
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Yep,private sector employees sell their services to an employer and can withdraw services and possibly face the consequences.Public sector workers are public servants and paid from the publics wages to serve them.I dont believe they should have the right to strike.
If I am misinformed about hospital doctors salaries then I apoligise.But I find it difficult to believe that the upper limit is £75k tbh,but am willing to be proved wrong.
I take it from your post that you are a consultant D ?
I would add,Im not anti NHS, far from it.I just think that in certain areas it is in dire need of a good shake up and bringing into the real world.There are of course many good commited people working in it,and they are most likely more frustrated by the whole thing than people like me are. ;)
Could not agree more.
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With all due respect D, how many days work do they do for that 75K ?
Last I heard they worked about 2 days per week for the NHS. and then 2 days in private hospitals. It would not be so bad if they where paid pro rata for the hours they work but no they get the full money.
If I have been informed badly please feel free to put me right. The truth would be nice to know.
Salaries cannot be based only on how many days work are done. E.g. what is done in those days, what training is required, how many people wanna do that job, experience, track record etc etc etc
I have worked with many people who do a "40 hour week". No they don't. They are present for 40 hours
I assume you have never worked on production line then ;D Or on a building site, A building site destroyed my health thanks to very long hours and constant work, you got about 30 minutes for lunch, if you wanted a morning cup of tea or a fag you had it while working. Are you really saying I and many others don't work in the time we are at work. I still work many hours, in a not quite so physical role, I get no tea breaks and 15 minutes for lunch if I get lunch at all. I do it for my customers and to keep me in a job, how many doctors/consultants work to keep there customers happy ? The difference is I lose my job if customers go elsewhere. How many doctors are threatened with the sack even if they don't perform.
I am sure doctors and consultants "work" really hard in there nice consulting rooms, Yes I am well aware of salary differentials. Does not make it right though.
You assume wrong. I have worked in catering, then finance. Now I run my own home renovations company. So, yes, I have worked on a building site. I do most days.
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No Albs, the upper limit is not 75k. After 6 years of med school (with a god knows how large student loan hanging over your head), 1 yr as a houseman, 3 years as a senior house officer, then 5 to 7 years of being a registrar, plus 2-3 yrs of research (optional, but most people do it). Thats 15 - 19 years of training to be a consultant. During these years you earn between 20 - 40k (slow increments to the top), plus a small supplement due to hours of being on call. Then you start at 75k. If you are willing to do more than the usual hours then you can get more, but who in their right minds wants to be taking on even more work in exchange for a hit on their family? So most people compromise and go for a fair amount of extra work and settle at about the 90k figure. But remember this carries with it a 40% tax and 11%NI, X% pension, professional indemnity insurance, royal college membership, specialty membership, journals and publication membership all of which costs significant amounts of money.
For eg: just one of the 5 journal/online databases I subscribe to is uptodate https://www.uptodate.com/store. Have a look at the annual membership costs, yup $500, its not a mistake/typo.
I am not struggling to make ends meet, but I am not rolling in it either.
Surgeons make a good proportion more. Possibly due to private work, I am not exactly certain. But then you exchange your evenings and weekends for it. Its quality of life versus income.
GP's seem to make money disproportionate to levels of training, on calls and working hours. I am sure they would disagree, but they generally start at 100k+ easily. And I think this needs to be addressed.
If GP,s are earning much more than consultants then I would fully agree.Im no expert but it sounds a bit like a waitress earning more than a chef.Doesnt make sense.