Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: BazaJT on 21 July 2012, 18:16:32
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Since owning my omega 3.0 it has always idled at an indicated 500 revs,however since having the cam cover gaskets changed it stalls at this engine speed!Using the not very scientific method of watching the dashboard clock the engine will run for a maximum of 4 mins at 500 revs and then stall.The engine will restart instantly and then either stall straight away or idle for up to the 4 min maximum!Tests? so far are to pinch off the pipe going into the front of the idle control valve,this affects the revs during the time the engine is warming up but once at 500 revs it makes no difference.Pulling the pipe from the front of the icv with the engine running produces an inrush of air[so a vacuum is present when all is connected]and the engine stalling immediately.The electrical plug has been removed from the rear of the icv and shows power is getting to it.So am I looking at an icv which is kaput or am I staring down the barrel of something more serious?If I keep the revs at about 650 or so the engine will run for ever and a day,but of course you can't manually alter the idle speed with a screw or anything.The car is a w reg,year 2000 facelift model[in case it makes a difference]
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Sounds like you may have a sticking ICV.
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This was my thinking,so I've sprayed the biggest part of a can of throttle body cleaner down it with the net result of making no difference!I don't mind buying a new icv but I don't want to keep buying bits only to find it's not solving the problem but heyho I suppose I've got to start somewhere as it's starting to annoy me,and if I get too annoyed the car will have to go!
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Absolutely the right approach. Confirm the fault first, then change the part.
So it might be worth a paper clip test to check for code 19 crank sensor, to be belt and braces, but in all honesty symptoms described are fairly classic icv. Although yours is pretty metronomic in its timing, which is odd IMO.
On my old 2.5cdx I had a persistent stalling and it took at least 6 real thorough soaks in crb cleaner before it behaved. The light oil(3 in one) is also important to help the mini throttle in the icv operate smoothly, and check there are no chips or burrs on the leading edge of the internal valve that can make it stick.
On re fitting insure its air tight in the rubber gromit.
If it still stalls after that lot with no evidence a 19 then try another used one from a breaker here maybe. Or Steve at omega spares in Heathrow.
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Is the idle rock steady, or is it hunting slightly?
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not hijacking but chris..... 3 in 1..... do you put this in just before refitting? i've only ever blasted it with carb cleaner and then refitted? i'm finding that my idle is about 400rpm..... was 600rpm.
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not hijacking but chris..... 3 in 1..... do you put this in just before refitting? i've only ever blasted it with carb cleaner and then refitted? i'm finding that my idle is about 400rpm..... was 600rpm.
A drop (just 1 drop) of a light machine oil on refitting after cleaning. 3-in-1 is fine for this
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Again this is a bit of an odd one.most of the time the idle is steady and then the engine just dies,but now and then the idle will drop below its usual indicated500 revs and then pick up to about 650 then drop back to the 500 before stalling.
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not hijacking but chris..... 3 in 1..... do you put this in just before refitting? i've only ever blasted it with carb cleaner and then refitted? i'm finding that my idle is about 400rpm..... was 600rpm.
A drop (just 1 drop) of a light machine oil on refitting after cleaning. 3-in-1 is fine for this
:y
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I'll try the paper clip route and more carb cleaner and see how that goes.If you add the drop of oil after refitting icv where do you put it?I've seen new icv's on e-bay at 27.70[including postage]these are an Alfa Romeo part but the numbers match and are said to be compatible,worth getting?or does anyone know different?
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Again this is a bit of an odd one.most of the time the idle is steady and then the engine just dies,but now and then the idle will drop below its usual indicated500 revs and then pick up to about 650 then drop back to the 500 before stalling.
Could potentially be an air leak...
Does it stall/lose power when not at idle?
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No loss of power/stalling when it's above idle.While sat on the drive in park/neutral if I keep the revs upp at about 650 or so it'll run all day,plant the throttle and it'll sing to the redline without hesitation.Out on the road it'll fly like a bird,until coming to a road junction/traffic lights etc.,when it'll just die but at least it'll restart instantly si I'm not a mobile road block!To try checking for air leak I've sprayed a load of WD40 at it with the engine running as this usually alters the revs,but in this case it made no difference.
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OK, rules out a slighlty failing MAF, so back to air leak or ICV. ICV's need several cleans if they haven't been cleaned properly for a while.
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I have managed to drop on a bit lucky perhaps, talking to a slight aquaintance today about it[not seen him for yonks]turns out he has a diagnostic/code reader gizmo,which he says he'll bring tomorrow and plug it into car to"interrogate"it.Hopefully this will if not pin point the problem at least it should narrow the field somewhat?
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I have managed to drop on a bit lucky perhaps, talking to a slight aquaintance today about it[not seen him for yonks]turns out he has a diagnostic/code reader gizmo,which he says he'll bring tomorrow and plug it into car to"interrogate"it.Hopefully this will if not pin point the problem at least it should narrow the field somewhat?
Possibly won't help in this case TBH.
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Since owning my omega 3.0 it has always idled at an indicated 500 revs,however since having the cam cover gaskets changed it stalls at this engine speed!Using the not very scientific method of watching the dashboard clock the engine will run for a maximum of 4 mins at 500 revs and then stall.The engine will restart instantly and then either stall straight away or idle for up to the 4 min maximum!Tests? so far are to pinch off the pipe going into the front of the idle control valve,this affects the revs during the time the engine is warming up but once at 500 revs it makes no difference.Pulling the pipe from the front of the icv with the engine running produces an inrush of air[so a vacuum is present when all is connected]and the engine stalling immediately.The electrical plug has been removed from the rear of the icv and shows power is getting to it.So am I looking at an icv which is kaput or am I staring down the barrel of something more serious?If I keep the revs at about 650 or so the engine will run for ever and a day,but of course you can't manually alter the idle speed with a screw or anything.The car is a w reg,year 2000 facelift model[in case it makes a difference]
so far are to pinch off the pipe going into the front of the idle control valve,this affects the revs during the time the engine is warming up but once at 500 revs it makes no difference.
If you pinch this pipe or kink it, the car should stall. If the car does not you have an air leak somewhere.
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No loss of power/stalling when it's above idle.While sat on the drive in park/neutral if I keep the revs upp at about 650 or so it'll run all day,plant the throttle and it'll sing to the redline without hesitation.Out on the road it'll fly like a bird,until coming to a road junction/traffic lights etc.,when it'll just die but at least it'll restart instantly si I'm not a mobile road block!To try checking for air leak I've sprayed a load of WD40 at it with the engine running as this usually alters the revs,but in this case it made no difference.
From that I would say defo icv, with a possible air leak.
The spray trick is a carb cleaner idea, as it's flammable, and would affect tick over if it got into the intake. I have had better results by listening and fiddling with/pinching rubber pipes, to listen for hissing or affecting engine speed with engine running tbh.
Primary causes of air leaks aside from miss fitting parts, is IME...
gromit between icv and plenum.
Breather system. Black Eco tec bit on top of plenum and associated pipe work at the back, look for perished or splits ends on the pipes. Push down on the black plastic Eco tech parts and see if any noise change.
Large vacume pipe to brake servo rubbed through on the ac pipe, and smaller associated pipes from it disconnected.
So worth a mooch around and a few more cleaning sessions with the icv IMO.
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Good news[I hope!].Just been out to fit new wiper blades,took opportunity to remove scuttle for clearance to back of engine,didn't have aclue what I was at,but pulled off re-attached all pipes that looked relevant,took apart any electrical plugs which may not have been making proper contact,and pushed 'em back together.Started car and it's run for above 1/2hr purring like a kitten, rock steady idle,so hopefully job sorted! I don't suppose I shall ever know if it was this or all the cleaner I've chucked down the icv that's worked,but I'm one happy bunny again!Tu.hanks to all for your input,couldn't have done it without yo
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Story so far.Paid mechanic to replace cam cover gaskets[mistake?]first attempt saw all ok other than near side gasket still leaked!but engine ran o.k.]second attempt removed scuttle panel for better access,result oil leaks cured,but now engine won't run right!I've checked for air leaks,can't see/hear feel any,sprayed wd40 all over this makes no difference.Pinch pipe which goes into front of icv and engine stalls,so I assume no air leaks.bought and fitted brand new icv this makes no difference.Engine will now tick over whilst sat in park,when cooling fans start car nearly stalls but then revs pick up to keep it running.However put car in gear and engine stalls,it's as though something is not compensating for extra drag.Have I bought a duff icv[although brand new]?Or am I now looking elsewhere for the problem?Luckily the Jag xj6 continues to be uber reliable,so am not devoid of transport.
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Story so far.Paid mechanic to replace cam cover gaskets[mistake?]first attempt saw all ok other than near side gasket still leaked!but engine ran o.k.]second attempt removed scuttle panel for better access,result oil leaks cured,but now engine won't run right!
Did you pay the mechanic for the second attempt? Take it back!
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No mechanic did second attempt free,since then he's been promising to have another look and sort it but something always "comes up" to delay this again and again etc.difficulty is of course getting to him other than by phone due to my own work commitments!
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Story so far.Paid mechanic to replace cam cover gaskets[mistake?]first attempt saw all ok other than near side gasket still leaked!but engine ran o.k.]second attempt removed scuttle panel for better access,result oil leaks cured,but now engine won't run right!I've checked for air leaks,can't see/hear feel any,sprayed wd40 all over this makes no difference.Pinch pipe which goes into front of icv and engine stalls,so I assume no air leaks.bought and fitted brand new icv this makes no difference.Engine will now tick over whilst sat in park,when cooling fans start car nearly stalls but then revs pick up to keep it running.However put car in gear and engine stalls,it's as though something is not compensating for extra drag.Have I bought a duff icv[although brand new]?Or am I now looking elsewhere for the problem?Luckily the Jag xj6 continues to be uber reliable,so am not devoid of transport.
Have you tried disconnecting MAF. Is the EML on?
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Which is the MAF sensor?there seems to be an awful lot of electric plugs under the bonnet!EML light goes out along with all other warning lights as soon as engine starts.Other than this stalling problem car runs beautifully.
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(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSblP3Maf6A2nJxJ-wGi_DxSuoiI5KdtE9GcJAtvfg8KVtxIJ0gLQ)
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O.K.,now know which MAF sensor is[thanks for picture]if it's dodgy what sort of reaction will I get?The problem has only arisen since the second go at changing the cam cover gasket on n/s bank,would this relate in any way to the MAF,or would this have been a separate issue just waiting to happen?
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Could it be something to do with that multi-ram affair at the rear of the inlet manifold/engine?How do I check if that's working as it should?Could do with getting this sorted as M.O.T.ran out today and can't really take it running as is
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Are the breather hoses on the right way around? If the MAF comes up ok I would look at the back of the engine again There are pics in the maintenance section to help you get the hoses right. :y
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Story so far.Paid mechanic to replace cam cover gaskets[mistake?]first attempt saw all ok other than near side gasket still leaked!but engine ran o.k.]second attempt removed scuttle panel for better access,result oil leaks cured,but now engine won't run right!I've checked for air leaks,can't see/hear feel any,sprayed wd40 all over this makes no difference.Pinch pipe which goes into front of icv and engine stalls,so I assume no air leaks.bought and fitted brand new icv this makes no difference.Engine will now tick over whilst sat in park,when cooling fans start car nearly stalls but then revs pick up to keep it running.However put car in gear and engine stalls,it's as though something is not compensating for extra drag.Have I bought a duff icv[although brand new]?Or am I now looking elsewhere for the problem?Luckily the Jag xj6 continues to be uber reliable,so am not devoid of transport.
Glad to hear that
As said try running it with MAF disconnected ;)
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Right,latest news is that a mate has finally turned up with a code reader and that's thrown uo a code 19.I'm told this relates to the crank sensor?As far as I can make out the wiring plug for this is behind the n/s cylinder head,if this information is correct then I'm hoping it may just be a case of something not being reassembled correctly when the mechanic had his second go at the cam cover gasket on that side.It will now be Saturday[weather permitting as I have no cover for the car]before I can get to do any looking in depth to check it out.I shall keep you all posted as to outcome.
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Fingers crossed :y
On the other hand..... :(
Vauxhall ran the wire from the crank position sensor up between the block and the (sometimes red hot) exhaust manifold. Over time the insulation gets brittle, which is fine until it gets disturbed and fails.
Once it has failed it won't get any better. Get yourself a new, genuine, sensor before it leaves you stranded :y
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So finally[I hope!]checked for air leaks found none,checked vac pipes were all in right positions[they were]cleaned icv,bought a new one[made no difference]got codes read and got a 19 cps incorrect revs or some such.Finally got round to unplugging cps to find what shape plug[oval in my case]ordered a new one from Vauxhall Parts Wharehouse in Suffolk while battery was charging[it'd gone flat due to car not being used]refitted battery and tried it ran like a good 'un,so either a poor connection on cps plug or similar!then new cps arrived in post!!so I now have a new icv and a new cps just in case,you can never have too many spares!Just need a new windscreen and I can take it for m.o.t.So thanks to all who posted their thoughts/ideas you were a great help and a source of great inspiration to keep me persevering and I can't thank you enough for that.