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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Figureman52 on 02 August 2012, 21:56:22

Title: Medical Term
Post by: Figureman52 on 02 August 2012, 21:56:22
I came across this in my father in law's medical notes.

"HS 1+ 2+ ESM"

Does anyone know what it means?
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: plym ian on 02 August 2012, 22:07:34
hs is hours sleep. Dont know what esm is sorry
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: Figureman52 on 02 August 2012, 22:19:46
Thanks for the reply.

Found it again, now it says "HS 1+ 2+ ?ESM, soft, loudest aortic area"
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: tigers_gonads on 02 August 2012, 22:21:04
Whats up the old fella ?
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: Figureman52 on 02 August 2012, 22:31:32
He went into hospital. Diagnosed and treated for pnuemonia. Died of a heart attack 6 days later. Swmbo can't come to terms with it. Convinced the doctors missed something. So she got all the notes and is trying to understand them.
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: tigers_gonads on 02 August 2012, 22:43:54
He went into hospital. Diagnosed and treated for pnuemonia. Died of a heart attack 6 days later. Swmbo can't come to terms with it. Convinced the doctors missed something. So she got all the notes and is trying to understand them.


Might be a idea to get your 15 minutes of free legal aid or even Pm Guffer  :y
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: RobG on 02 August 2012, 23:06:54
Ejection Systolic Murmur
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: the alarming man on 02 August 2012, 23:35:13
i belive it is a heart murmur heard in systole..been a long time though....
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: D on 02 August 2012, 23:55:59
Heart sounds one and two heard normally plus an ejection systolic murmur, which could be normal for an older person. Or not.

Edit: Soft and in the aortic area, sounds age related.
Sorry for your loss.
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: D on 03 August 2012, 00:01:25
He went into hospital. Diagnosed and treated for pnuemonia. Died of a heart attack 6 days later. Swmbo can't come to terms with it. Convinced the doctors missed something. So she got all the notes and is trying to understand them.

Quite lethal in its own right. More so if you are older than 65.
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: albitz on 03 August 2012, 00:08:28
He went into hospital. Diagnosed and treated for pnuemonia. Died of a heart attack 6 days later. Swmbo can't come to terms with it. Convinced the doctors missed something. So she got all the notes and is trying to understand them.

Quite lethal in its own right. More so if you are older than 65.

Im in no way a medical expert,but I would agree with that.
Ime its common for bereaved relatives to find it difficult to accept sudden or unexpected death of a loved one,and often feel a need to blame someone. I saw a degree of it after the sudden death of my mother.Hospital and doctors actions being questioned etc.
Each family member has a different recollection of what happened,but my own recollection is that my mother had several serious health issues including a large clot, part of which had moved from her leg to her lung (s ?). She apparently got it into her head that her daily blood thinning injections were going to kill her and refused to have them.She died very suddenly a few days later,and I believe that part of the clot had probably moved from her lung to her heart which caused almost instant death.  :(
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 03 August 2012, 08:16:31

//......

Sorry for your loss.


Well said D.

I would also like to add my condolences to both you and your wife.
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: Figureman52 on 03 August 2012, 10:13:20
Thank you for replies and expressions of sympathy. :y

We are not on a witch hunt, just want to be sure that all that could be done was done. We can’t help but feel at the moment that even if he had got pneumonia there was still an underlying heart problem.

Would “Pneumococcal antigen, shows negative” suggest no pneumonia?
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: albitz on 03 August 2012, 11:45:32
I didnt mean to imply that you were on a witchunt.I hope my post  didnt convey that impression. :-\
Just sharing my experience that the need to apportion blame can,for some people at least, be a part of the grieving process. :y
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: Figureman52 on 03 August 2012, 12:19:58
Not at all. I understand where you are coming from. Witch hunt probably the wrong phrase.:y

Wife feels that maybe she could have done more and is partially blaming herself.

Just looking for the truth. :y
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: the alarming man on 03 August 2012, 15:21:05
Thank you for replies and expressions of sympathy. :y

We are not on a witch hunt, just want to be sure that all that could be done was done. We can’t help but feel at the moment that even if he had got pneumonia there was still an underlying heart problem.

Would “Pneumococcal antigen, shows negative” suggest no pneumonia?

i think it would suggest no meningitus....you really need to find a no win no fee lawyer who specialise in medical cases even if only to give you and the wife closure as its been a long time since i was in a medical role and these guys are trained in all this
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: D on 03 August 2012, 16:04:36
Thank you for replies and expressions of sympathy. :y

We are not on a witch hunt, just want to be sure that all that could be done was done. We can’t help but feel at the moment that even if he had got pneumonia there was still an underlying heart problem.

Would “Pneumococcal antigen, shows negative” suggest no pneumonia?

No it wouldn't. There are various types of pneumonia. The negative antigen means one of three things. Its truly negative. It is falsely negative (tiny percentage of this happening). Or you still have a pneumonia, but it is one of the 35+ other bugs that might be causing it. The more atypical the bug, the more the possibility of other organ involvement. The antigen test is quite expensive, so a lot of hospitals don't use it.

Most people over the age of 50 will have some furring of their coronary arteries. If you then have a risk factor (i.e.: smoking current or past, weight, diabetes, family history, hypertension etc) the chances of having narrowed arteries are even higher. In general a pneumonic illness is an ilness with a significant mortality even in a younger population group. It can and often does cause significant heart strain. Now if you imagine someone who is older, with 2 organs failing, then the mortality is very high. Hence my first post. Difficult to comment any more without more info. Ask if you need any other info.

BTW, nothing to do with meningitis as suggested by someone else.
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: Figureman52 on 03 August 2012, 20:25:33
I feel this information is really helping.

There were Blood cultures done.

Aerobic Blood Culture           No growth after 5 days incubation
Anaerobic Blood Culture           No growth after 5 days incubation
Culture            No growth after 5 days incubation

The same results were found from a sample taken on the date of his death.

Could he still have had pneumonia?
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: Figureman52 on 03 August 2012, 20:54:59

Might be a idea to get your 15 minutes of free legal aid or even Pm Guffer  :y
[/quote]

How can Guffer help?
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: tigers_gonads on 04 August 2012, 08:20:09

Might be a idea to get your 15 minutes of free legal aid or even Pm Guffer  :y

How can Guffer help?
[/quote]


Iirc, he is a medical type person  :-\


Tbh, I think "D" sums it up perfectly  :(

Last month, I Had to look after a good mate who had to watch his uncle pass away.
He had had a stroke in the past, high blood presure and then ended up with pneumonia which finally finished him off.  :(

A week later, my uncle died threw complications due to severe dementia  :(

At the end of the day, the body can only take so much hammer before it lets go  :(

Sorry for your loss mate.
I really am  :(
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: Gaffers on 04 August 2012, 18:02:33
Sorry for your loss :'(

I believe the question has been answered, if you have any concerns then you'll have to take the notes to a medical lawyer who will be able to interpret them for you :y
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: D on 04 August 2012, 21:05:12
I feel this information is really helping.

There were Blood cultures done.

Aerobic Blood Culture           No growth after 5 days incubation
Anaerobic Blood Culture           No growth after 5 days incubation
Culture            No growth after 5 days incubation


The same results were found from a sample taken on the date of his death.

Could he still have had pneumonia?
Cultures can be negative, because of various reasons including primary pick up rates of less than 80%. Got any CRP values or WBC or neutrophil counts? They may help.
Title: Re: Medical Term
Post by: Figureman52 on 04 August 2012, 22:06:39
I feel this information is really helping.

There were Blood cultures done.

Aerobic Blood Culture           No growth after 5 days incubation
Anaerobic Blood Culture           No growth after 5 days incubation
Culture            No growth after 5 days incubation


The same results were found from a sample taken on the date of his death.

Could he still have had pneumonia?
Cultures can be negative, because of various reasons including primary pick up rates of less than 80%. Got any CRP values or WBC or neutrophil counts? They may help.

Values taken about 5 hours before his heart attack.

WBC: 8.40 10E9/L
C-Reactive Protein: 82 mg/L
Neutrophils: 6.0 10E9/L