Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Michael2.6 on 03 August 2012, 15:18:35
-
Any one ever had party wall dispute with neighbour?The witch never stuck to plans and never asked our permission.
now we stuck with a overhanging guttering box of 18inches and waste pipes on our side, she wont remove it and we have a solicitor who we have wasted 3grand with and 8months of hell. council never checked it at start and passed it. she hasnt a solicitor and has no stress!we now trying to build extension that will now be joined to hers and we need guttering removed to finish it, she kicking off at us!she tells us to move house so it less hassle for her, bare in mind we let her put scaffolding etc in our drive and this is how she treats us. HELP!! >:(
-
Look up the building regs and then get a different inspector out.
We had an extention built in the early 70's and the inspector complained about the footings that had been dug, our builder argued he was with the guidelines but the he had to obey the inspector, he did the work, inspector still was not happy, bulder complained, another inspector turned out and past them straight away, when questione by the builder the work was 100% the 1st time round.
As I say another inspector may make your neighber remove the guttering (even better one you look into proprley they may be made to remove the over hang if you prove to be right.)
-
Defo get a building inspector from the council, they should have checked it off at various stages , if they haven't ,it's time to raise merry hell!
-
my uncle had some building work done and the regs says has to be 18inches for accompanied house or structure main roof tiles and walls dont apply unless they dont comform to the origial building. dont know if it the same all over but thats what was on the form he filled out to do his extension.
and any one that dose not comply to the regs and building reg that were drawn up can have the said building taken down until it is in the way the drawing were setup. have it check out see what they say.
-
Fill her in
-
thanks for all advice council are waste of time, i have made their life hell and spoke to the numpty who was in charge, well i mean shouted at him!they have signed the build off so we cant touch it. I love the advice, fill her in! my thoughs exactly.
worth thinking about when we start our extension and digging the founds out, accidents happen! that cheered me up ;D
-
I come under Eastleigh Borough Council and all planning applications can be viewed online. I have also read that there rules state that no part of an extension or new build can overhang another property. Planning permission can be granted for your property by someone else, it does not mean they can build on your property.
For example you have a large property and builder enqures to buy your house, he can apply for planning permission for what he wants to do, and he may get planning permission. It does not mean you have to sell your property to the builder.
I suspect the architect/builder/council/building regs have made a big mistake here, Have you tried a no win no fee solicitor ?
If it where my house I would give 14 days to remove anything on my property, then I would remove it myself, carefully and causing as little damage as possible. I suspect this would be when the police would arrive. They cannot stop you doing work to items on your property so long as you are not endangering anyone.
I had a similar issue many years ago. I put up an extension, and when measuring, my neigbours conservatory roof was overhanging my side, I gave him the 14 days notice. and then I removed the offending bit. We never spoke again. But I did hand the bit back undamaged, and carried on with my extension. I watched him very carefully when he fixed his roof.
Good luck, and don't give up if you are right. There are far to many people out there who try to take advantage of people, and this is what they have done to you.
Just looked at your local council planning site, it looks very poor to me. Like they don't want to give out information.
-
Thankyou thats exactly what we have said, every one who had a part in building the mess we have to look at every day is to blame, and our neighbour is the main culprit, she a very devious evil bitch, we have lived here 24years, she has been their 2years and she has acheived alot at our cost, taking our eyes out and going back for the sockets!she will not co operate and claims she owns the wall she greedily built on to as she told us make her bedroom bigger. also at the time she moved next door we had our house up for sale, and when it all kicked off between us and we noticed she had not gone with original plans, that by the way would have been 9inches away from the party wall and that would have been ok, but now what a sight we have hanging over our drive, her answer, why are you bothered? you are moving! that alone speaks volumes. no one has helped us and she just playing games with us. we had people view our house but that put them off, now we trying to go ahead with an extension and she objecting and twisting the knife in. we need advice, and like you say a no win no fee solicitor, just frustrating that with our solicitor we no further forward than 8months ago. and yes i want remove it myself but then we get done! any ideas?we come under durham county council and i would like every one to see what she done :(
-
If it where my house I would give 14 days to remove anything on my property, then I would remove it myself, carefully and causing as little damage as possible. I suspect this would be when the police would arrive. They cannot stop you doing work to items on your property so long as you are not endangering anyone.
I think i would do the same but also hand the removed items back to her :y
-
The neighbour should be contacted in a formal and legal form requesting evidence that you the property owner have entered into a written agreement that the guttering/eaves are permitted to overhang your property......planning plays no part on legal trespass issues.
Sounds like a crap solicitor to me, your need somebody who has legal knowledge of such things
-
if i am not mistaken your neighbour can not build on any of your land which clearley the foundation would be and assume gutter fascia soffit is if the brick wall is directly on the boundry line without your written consent
dont think it is necesarily comes under the party wall act , the council planners and building control would not really be interested as i think would be deemed as a civil matter between you and your neighbour. if now you want to build an extension on your boundry you would need a party wall agreement
Unfortunatley if i am right i dont think the council will offer any assistance even though they approved plans and construction method
some basic info on part wall act attached link
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_partywall_explain_booklet.pdf
i have come across this situation before but generally both neighbours accomodate each others needs but generally i never build on the boundry line where possible
dont think there is much you can do other than take civil action or eat humble pie and see if you can reach agreement with her , from what i know i think the cards are in her favour as she built her extension first as crazy as it sounds...........will do a bit of digging and see what i can find out :y :y
-
and what Mark said think you have a bad solicitor proceedings should have been issued long ago etc
-
also what part of the plans has she not stuck to
-
option B would be to build a nice raised rockery flower bed against her wall could make her a little damp
-
yes me and the wife agree we have a crap solicitor, and hasnt took enough money off us to get it removed. and my answer to the council when they keep telling us its a party wall dispute, is well if you had took your blindfold off and spotted it at the start it wouldnt be any dispute, and stevie wonder would have done a better job seeing it! my neighbour apparently didnt realise what had happened!wait i have just seen a pig fly past!bullshit she knew what she was doing, my wife wont ever forgive or forget this, so she tells me every day, and wants to smack her big head in! when it rains we dont need a brolly we just stand underneath the boxed guttering, it wide enough. well you know what they say, what goes round, comes round,bide our time.
we have contacted a surveyer today, another 200quid to find out who the wall belongs to, and she states it hers, but if she going off her house deeds it wont stand up in court we were told. there was a hedge but now it replaced with a dwarf wall that been their 10years. she must have tape measure in her hand all the time cause she reckons all the driveways are different sizes. she a clever get, and the wife says she would rather eat our cats shite than eat humble pie and beg her to be nice to eachother! will keep you all up to date what happens, keep watching crimewatch! ;D
-
Im a BCO
the regs dont cover who owns the land its built on, you do need planning permission to build on someone elses property, contact the enforcement officer AND your local counciller,
the building being over the boundary is a civil matter, why didnt YOU stop it being built when they were digging the foundations over the boundary?
-
well it looks like we married long lost sisters ;D ;D
you said earlier its not built to the plans, which bit, got a planning number etc. and have you seen all the documents ie application, permision etc. They are public information
probably going over old ground sorry if i am but the council Planning can issue an enforcement notice if they have breached the origonal planning approval notice be it appearance, size and location, Building Control only really sort out the materials and construction methods
and if the plans were drawn up by any compident person there should be some form of notation on the drawing stating your approval is required before they commence the works
unfortunatley a lot of people do not enter into comunication with a solicitor, they only tend to when there is a court summons in front of them. I do not know the procedure for this type of action but if it is anything like a small claims procedure then its quite simple and you can do it yourself just pay a fee and all parties get issued with documents etc with time to reply, most setlle before the court date.
hopefully some one will jump in and explain the legalities better :y
-
we seen the first plans on websitem and were ok, bare in mind there was no boxed guttering on the plans we first viewed, and was stepped back on her own property, wont go into to much detail but at time i was recovering from cancer, hospital appointments, chemo, father dying, and her work going on next door, and scaffolding all in our drive, shielding some of the mess, and maybe yes we should have spotted something wrong, but you see she should have conversed with us, stating her changes. we contacted council,enforcement officer came down, put party wall book threw OUR door. actually got phonecall when me and wife sat in hospital from council stating she had breached planning, and stopped the work for one day! then she got all the work clashed out as quickly as poss, we had contacted solicitor by this time, but look where we are today, no further forward. and we made her submit second lot plans, and guess what, they were exactly as it stands now, with boxed guttering. think she caught us at our lowest point and took advantage of us, we in away allowed it to happen, and will never trust her again. i can put some photos on later if i allowed to?or could give you details so you can all see her TWO set of plans on the council website, but means giving address out. thanks for your comments, thinkwe just put it down to a bad experience and try and move on from it, hoping maybe one day she get her just desserts! :y
-
blimey been through the wars by the sounds of things
if the council have agreed that she has breached planning consent then i would have expected them to issue an enforcement notice as she has carried on and built the extension to a revised layout at her own risk
Unless the council have decided to varie the planning consent to incude the revised layout then it seems clear cut that an enforcement notice should be issued things do take a while with planning issues so it could be its in the pipe line
i think the time period for any such disputes is 6 years after which time no action can be taken
i will have a chat with some collegues next wee and see what they say :y
-
if you go to crook county council public website and look up her TWO sets of plans paul, or anyone and you will see the difference between the two, no 1. 3/2011/0084 and 3/2012/0068 let me know what you think!
-
well bugger me.....sideways even how the hell did she get away with that :o
did she inform you of the works etc in writing on the 14/2/2012 as she has confirmed in section 11 cert B when she did a resubmission to the council. on the 15/2/12 :o
on the first application in 2011 she never had to as drawings clearly show the building her side of the existing boundry fence/wall. The resubmission which i assume was after the planners were informed the building size has increased and now formed your boundry wall
although from reading the councils response if she did not serve you notice of the works,you may still have to take civil action. Crook county council sounds about right, all they have done is take the easy way out to avoid the costs of issuing an enforcement notice and seeing it through to completion what can be costly and drawn out for them.
you could write to councilers Zair and Harrison may even be worth looking at similar developements in your road ie did they keep off the boundry line and has the council allowed terracing( a similar project on an ajoining property) and how did they get over it
sorry to say you have been well and truly shafted :'( :'( unless someone knows a bit more about law
and the process you need to go through even so it will be more than worth it for her to defend any action rather than take down a large part of the building, unless there is a course of action you can take against the council then the cost become thiers to persue her
sorry wish i could have been of more help but not given up yet :y
documents
first application
http://planning.wearvalley.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=60595
resubmission
http://planning.wearvalley.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=65521
-
So, was Certificate B of Section 11 of the planning application form completed and notice served by the applicant to you?
If not then the requirements of the planning have not ben met and the planning department (who in my experience in Rushcliffe ar absolutely F-ing useless!) are duely bound to act on your behalf to resolve the matter.
In addition, as already mentioned, if they have not agreement from you for the trespass then you are also able to take the action through the civil courts.
-
So, was Certificate B of Section 11 of the planning application form completed and notice served by the applicant to you?
If not then the requirements of the planning have not ben met and the planning department (who in my experience in Rushcliffe ar absolutely F-ing useless!) are duely bound to act on your behalf to resolve the matter.
In addition, as already mentioned, if they have not agreement from you for the trespass then you are also able to take the action through the civil court
-
So, was Certificate B of Section 11 of the planning application form completed and notice served by the applicant to you?
If not then the requirements of the planning have not ben met and the planning department (who in my experience in Rushcliffe ar absolutely F-ing useless!) are duely bound to act on your behalf to resolve the matter.
In addition, as already mentioned, if they have not agreement from you for the trespass then you are also able to take the action through the civil courts.
Cert B section 11 has been completed its if notice was indeed issued to M26
also although in the first instance the council should be held responsible for the planning breach but following a subsequent re submission by the neighbour they approved the revised developement possibly in order to get out of issuing an enforcement notice and persuing the matter so they can now say its a civil matter exit stage left
questions really are is there any action that can be taken against the council to force them to perssue the matter or is it now down to M26 to take civil action and in both cases what is the action and what would it entail
-
thanks for replies, yea she has shit on us, and no she never give us anything in writing, just assumed we would be happy with her wrong doings. my wife has contacted the onbudsmen, and complained to all departments, and like you say the council have swept it under the carpet because it to much hassle and money for them. wife going off it and has not let up with council. she spoke to the chap who actually had blindfold on when he checked it, and believe me she didnt hold back, he aware of complaints against him,and she has kept her mouth shut up to now with bitch next door but i can feel something brewing, and it wont be pleasant! we have not had the right advice, and wife wants a court order slapping on her, we have our plans on council website, and they have actually amended ours twice to work, the roof that is to work round her! and guess what?we have ended up with the numpty who was her planner!have you read all the details on application?the decision notice ect, you will see we objected the second ones but not the first, so we not stick in the muds, but when it interfears with our property. well it not on. any more ideas? we want to get the sly get back. she does mension the other similar extensions down the street, but i say if they jumped off viaduct i wouldnt copy them! >:( >:(
-
forgot to mension, we rang the builders who were part of this pantomine and they knew it was wrong, but carried on because she told them to. i asked if this went to court would they be prepared to state this in court?oh of course! arranged to phone them later and low and behold couldnt get to talk to them, and still havent got back to us. bitch wasnt happy we had done this, and said she was going to sue them for the work! how the hell can she sue them when she told them to do it. I believe every one had a part to play in this cock up and no one wanting to take the blame, just have to make few phonecalls want court order on her. she threatened us with court! ;D the troll hasnt even spent a penny on solicitor. pleading poverty,it probs end up us paying to remove guttering box when we get up to that height with our bricks, wife wants to just rip it down, and i think she would herself but doesnt do heights! :)
-
One thing councils are really scared off are judicial reviews. This involves much work and expense on the councils part in solicitors fees, getting all of the paperwork in order, so their ducks are all in a row as far as possible. As the results and details of any outcome is in the public domain, then omissions and errors by individuals are there for all to see. From what you have said, you were not given notice on the updated plans, then this might prove awkward for the council.
Now judicial reviews are very expensive, but just the threat of saying that will be the next step by you or your solicitor, may well mean the council will become very focused on seeking cheaper and easier alternatives to get it resolved, rather than risk this happening and also making it easier to brush and wrong doing by the planning department under the carpet.
-
forgot to mension, we rang the builders who were part of this pantomine and they knew it was wrong, but carried on because she told them to. i asked if this went to court would they be prepared to state this in court?oh of course! arranged to phone them later and low and behold couldnt get to talk to them, and still havent got back to us. bitch wasnt happy we had done this, and said she was going to sue them for the work! how the hell can she sue them when she told them to do it. I believe every one had a part to play in this cock up and no one wanting to take the blame, just have to make few phonecalls want court order on her. she threatened us with court! ;D the troll hasnt even spent a penny on solicitor. pleading poverty,it probs end up us paying to remove guttering box when we get up to that height with our bricks, wife wants to just rip it down, and i think she would herself but doesnt do heights! :)
I would and hand her the bits and if she doesn't like it then tell her 'I'll see you in court' ;D ;D
-
wife going to ring council and blast them again. our solicitor not hitting her where it hurts, she just laughing at us, we need to go for the throat, well wife would like to literally! have considered going to our local paper the norhern echo and showing just what we have to put up with. will keep you all posted what happens. few emails and phonecalls to make this week, our solicitor on hols till 22nd not that it makes much difference think the wife could do better herself. watch this space! :)
-
i Did read all the applications etc both of them and drawings etc :y :y
if any one with legal mind wants to short cut it and go to the delegated report in application 2 basically unfolds as you read and they still grant planning approval :o :o
http://planning.wearvalley.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=65521
I would imagine M26 the builder although being directed by the client to enlarge the building has now been threatened by the client that it will be him she will seek costs from if it has to be taken down.....unless he has it in writing of course, but probably expalins why he will not contact you and ditto if there was an architect involved.
I was hoping someone would jump in and say yes you need issue this type of legal summons etc to the council or your neighbour. I seriously hope your solicitor will arrange this for you as clearley the time for phone calls and letters has passed.
the council who clearly took the easy option by granting approval to the re submission and the fact your neighbour has fraudently filled in section 11 cert B of the application and not informed you of the work must all be points in your favour.
Not to mention she breached the origonal planning consent by knowingly building on your boundry to which the council actualy made her stop works but she carried on and re submitted another application with revised plans
incidentally she did not have to inform you of the works section 11 cert B on the first planning application as the works were being built up to the existing boundry wall/fence and would not have interfered with you except for access required to carry out the works.
certainley hope your solicitor will be issuing some form of summons in your favour making all parties concerned shite themselves, perhaps she may even make you an offer to buy that section of land :y :y
will be watching this space and wish you all the luck with it :y :y
-
you have it all correct, and can see exactly what has happened. we wanted to send her a summons and have talked about that months ago to our solicitor, but all we get is try other options, i have tried to talk calmly to her but her voice goes off the scale and need ear plugs!she dont want to alter it, simple, i told her i think you need to pay this daft bil and she turned into the hulk! solicitor has suggested that about her buying that what she has stole off us, but why would she when she has got it for free! and we said well it sounds ok but by the time we pay the bill we just not goint to benefit from it. you know the song by smokie?living next door to alice, well the wife sings living next door to dallas, in the garden so she can hear,coz the house like off southfolk, big like her head!yea if she had stuck to first plans no probs and all could have got on, which we did before she plotted all this. her partner has very little to say about it, she wont allow him! and it was him and his work colleague from a well known outfit who he works for actually put the guttering box on so he will have got the stuff for nothing! oh did i say that also we have her pipes on our side as well, which she claims she didnt want putting their!lies lies couldnt lie straight in bed if she tried. do you want me to put photos on?you willget a better birds eye view of it
-
pics will help mate,when you holding a oof bbq we could use her drive as a car park lol ;D
-
So, was Certificate B of Section 11 of the planning application form completed and notice served by the applicant to you?
If not then the requirements of the planning have not ben met and the planning department (who in my experience in Rushcliffe ar absolutely F-ing useless!) are duely bound to act on your behalf to resolve the matter.
In addition, as already mentioned, if they have not agreement from you for the trespass then you are also able to take the action through the civil courts.
Cert B section 11 has been completed its if notice was indeed issued to M26
also although in the first instance the council should be held responsible for the planning breach but following a subsequent re submission by the neighbour they approved the revised developement possibly in order to get out of issuing an enforcement notice and persuing the matter so they can now say its a civil matter exit stage left
questions really are is there any action that can be taken against the council to force them to perssue the matter or is it now down to M26 to take civil action and in both cases what is the action and what would it entail
Planning approval notice makes specifiic reference to the applicant needing to serve notice on the neighbour, if this was not done then they are in breach of the planning approval. :y
Simples realy!
-
totally agree Mark the council even refere to this in the delegated report, just wondering is it the councils resposibility to ensure the neighbour did actually serve notice or do they just take the neighbours signed completion of that section as proof they did, which is what it seems to me
Therefore the application is fraudulant and gives the council a way out to reverse thier planning approval of the re submission which hopefully gives everyone a way out except the neighbour
plus surley M26 what ever legal action your solicitor takes he would apply for costs..where is an ex solicitor when you want one
its not a funny matter but your wife sounds just like mine ;D ;D oh dear think the building is the least of the neighbours worries she should be afraid very afraid :o ;)
-
you have it all correct, and can see exactly what has happened. we wanted to send her a summons and have talked about that months ago to our solicitor, but all we get is try other options, i have tried to talk calmly to her but her voice goes off the scale and need ear plugs!she dont want to alter it, simple, i told her i think you need to pay this daft bil and she turned into the hulk! solicitor has suggested that about her buying that what she has stole off us, but why would she when she has got it for free! and we said well it sounds ok but by the time we pay the bill we just not goint to benefit from it. you know the song by smokie?living next door to alice, well the wife sings living next door to dallas, in the garden so she can hear,coz the house like off southfolk, big like her head!yea if she had stuck to first plans no probs and all could have got on, which we did before she plotted all this. her partner has very little to say about it, she wont allow him! and it was him and his work colleague from a well known outfit who he works for actually put the guttering box on so he will have got the stuff for nothing! oh did i say that also we have her pipes on our side as well, which she claims she didnt want putting their!lies lies couldnt lie straight in bed if she tried. do you want me to put photos on?you willget a better birds eye view of it
photos could be good we may find some more points...do the rain water pipes discharge on to your property then
-
revised drawings show it on the rear of the new building which also should be discharged into a new soak away councils do not allow you to go into the main drains now the prefer it to soak into the earth eco shite stuff
-
christ could get her big style, fraud, breach of planning, and for thinking she victoria beckham in the palace!no notice was served to us and so you think the council have just taken her word for it? honest opinion everyone, do we continue with this and will we win?be honest, the wife has a cd compilation coming out, features some hot hits, including, banana arma, guilty. cliff richard, devil woman, blondie, one way or another am gonna get ya. something for her 4 kids to sing to, bob the builder can he fix it yes he can, wish he bloody hurry up! any more will be gladly accepted if you know any!will ask the daughter to put fotos on if she in good mood, coz we dont know how to :y
-
Sack your solicitor. ;)
-
I am sure you are but dont forget to keep a 'diary of events' make a note of who ever you speak to and what about and include your neighbours actions / comments in this too....... :y :y
-
no the rain water pipes dont discharge but will be in the way when we start our build. and yes we going to get rid of solicitor any one know a good one? :y
(http://s12.postimage.org/bab034rrd/DSCF0501.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/bab034rrd/)
(http://s15.postimage.org/4gb1n6947/DSCF0511.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4gb1n6947/)
-
christ could get her big style, fraud, breach of planning, and for thinking she victoria beckham in the palace!no notice was served to us and so you think the council have just taken her word for it? honest opinion everyone, do we continue with this and will we win?be honest, the wife has a cd compilation coming out, features some hot hits, including, banana arma, guilty. cliff richard, devil woman, blondie, one way or another am gonna get ya. something for her 4 kids to sing to, bob the builder can he fix it yes he can, wish he bloody hurry up! any more will be gladly accepted if you know any!will ask the daughter to put fotos on if she in good mood, coz we dont know how to :y
to be honest M26 i dont know my thoughts would be mistakes have certainley been made and there could be more once i see the pics i guess at the moment nobody will take any action until there is some form of summons/court hearing date not sure of the process. I will do my best to try and find out for you.
But once youve started legal proceedings and not just solicitors letters then really the clocks ticking and its not you they have to blag but a judge one thing that is important dont smash bash or touch your neighbour or the new building you are the victims dont give her anything to throw back similary council try not to loose it most people will think they were calm wtf do they know ;)
if she is a devious as she sounds she already has a back up plan and i pity the poor builder i am sure he will figure in it somewhere
plus off course if your planning your own extension she will make that as awkward as possible but then again it hopefully will all be part of the overal process and agreement/judgement
An interesting point is if they had submitted the revised layouts/drawings on the first planning application would it have been approved and granted.................NO the drawings clearly show the roof line over hanging your boundry plus gutters etc, it may well be it was her plan all along to submit drawings that would get approved on the first application then build it to the revised drawings and if there was a problem simply carry out a re submission.
i have known this to happen and as Rods said the council do not have the resources etc to follow through with an enforcement etc unless of course its high profile and in the publics eye. Mind you i have to say there is taking the piss and taking the piss and she has taken everything she bloody could
-
I am sure you are but dont forget to keep a 'diary of events' make a note of who ever you speak to and what about and include your neighbours actions / comments in this too....... :y :y
yes excellent advise right from the very first conversation
-
going to be a complicated one when you build unless an agreement is in palce to use her steell and columns to support part of your structure and the wall above becomes a party wall the roof will end up as a valley rather messy unless you could both extend to a gable end.....her pipes are possibly bathroom sink which could be diverted inside her building.
this could reduce your build costs and save her from taking a large part of her building down or buying the land from you
dont know a solicitor but a further discussion with yours may be worth while better the devil you know to see what he is going to say and propose doing at least he has the case files etc and knows the history
just need to get you more info on the action you can take so your in the driving seat with solicitor, just hope i am not getting your hopes up
-
thanks for advice, she basically has had her cake and eaten it and left us with the crumbs!wont give up and certainly wont let her think i will forget, the wife wont and she already has plans of her own for little miss shifty, that dont need planning permission. will still let you all know what the out come is >:(