Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: markrnorton on 13 August 2012, 08:06:57
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General question here as i am newish to Vauxhalls V6's
What the most power a 3.2 has produced in normally aspirated form ?
Has anybody on here tuned one ? are they tune-able ?
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Always hard to say. Rolling roads are notoriously set for "Bragging Rights" rather than accuracy, so needs a before/after on the same equipment.
Not masses of options to tune, not many remappers around. Other than remap, not much gain to be had anywhere else. Using the GM airfilter over the equivilent pattern part helps a little, due to large surface area.
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I am talking about a full re-build, not just a remap/filter etc
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Not much tuning potential really.Bottom end is quite weak,exhaust manifolds restrictive and not a lot of room for replacement free flowing tubular manifolds,Standard intake system designed for a balance of smooth power & torque. Attempts to improve in the standard intake setup invariably result in more noise & less power.
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So reading into that, scope for better exhaust manifolds, and scope to re-engineer top end intake as well
I thought the bottom end of the 3.2 had a steel crank ? or is that myth ?
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3.2 manifolds aren't too bad (unlike 3.0). Intake, not sure you'll be finding many gains, as its not restrictive.
Getting the CR back up to that of a 3.0 may bring benefits.
Though, if you are going to that sort of effort, why piss about. Shove a V8 in.
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V8 is to long for what i need. V6 is compact.
I was just trying to find out if anybody on here had actually done anything.
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My final aim is circa 300hp, i just wanted to know if it could be done through N/A tuning or whether i would have to use FI.
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It also depends what type of power delivery you need, because there will be a world of difference between NA and FI engines delivering that power. ;)
I don't doubt that it can be achieved, but we're not aware of anyone who has tuned this engine to that extent, so wouldn't be able to answer the all important questions: what needs to be done, how much it will cost and how durable the engine will be at that state of tune.
There is folklore of Courtenay having made a few turbocharged V6s that suffered bottom end failure but not much else to go on. In your position I would probably choose an engine with a more proven track record of having being tuned to that level. It's an expensive business being a trailblazer.
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I understand what you mean, but development is what i do !!, and the Vaux hall v6 is perfect for the application i need. right size, weight etc.
I looked for ages to find a compact v6 with a manual gearbox, and this was by far the best solution.
Looks like i might be the pioneer on this one then !
Power delivery needs to remain linear, so when i mentioned FI i was referring to a supercharger.
I would prefer to go N/A though to keep the weight down and cooling issues that may/will arise.
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Have a chat with Serek.He has done some tuning to the V6,including (iirc) having some nice tubular manifolds made up in Poland. :y
There may be some trial & error involved,but at least theres a plentiful supply of cheap engines around should things go wrong . :y
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Ahh. Cooling. Something has been mentioned in the past about replacing the oil cooler cover plate with a blank plate with an additional coolant outlet to the rear to increase flow around the rear cylinders, which can otherwise run too hot on tuned engines. Then use an external oil cooler.
I would say ditch the exhaust manifolds to start with, replace them with tuned tubular manifolds.
If going NA, the compression ratio is a little low on the 3.2. Not sure if you can safely skim the heads enough to bring that up, or find some pistons without the dished combustion chamber. Forged pistons, maybe?
A mappable engine management system.
Bike throttle bodies for induction, perhaps?
Beyond that, suck it and see.
What vehicle is it destined for?
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I had the same thoughts
Bike TB's
Re-worked heads
Cams
increase CR
remove A/C and PS pumps
Exhausts have to be re-made to fit car
Race cats
Lightweight flywheel
Underdrive ally front pulley
Omex engine management
Its going in a Ginetta hybrid (G33)
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There is folklore of Courtenay having made a few turbocharged V6s that suffered bottom end failure but not much else to go on. In your position I would probably choose an engine with a more proven track record of having being tuned to that level. It's an expensive business being a trailblazer.
They were 3.0l, not 3.2
I have seen 2, both with that bottom end, horrid noise.
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Ah, its not for an Omega. That leaves some scope, as you can sacrifice bottom end torque for top end power, without making it undrivable.
Maybe messing with cams, although unsure what is available off the shelf.
A more tunable ECU - Kevin Wood is your man here - might open some options.
Get the CR back up (lowered on 3.2 for emissions) to 3.0l level, or higher (only if NA, not forced). Thinking aloud, with the 3.2 CR being lower, does that open it for Forced air?
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car target weight is 650kgs and rear diff is 4.33. so torque not top of the agenda, but is always nice to have.
Is the 3.0 stronger than the 3.2 then, or are they much the same ?
Main issue with supercharging is temps, piston crown, the rod and crank strength. however as supercharging power is more linear than turbo, it is a bit kinder (sometimes)
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Is the 3.0 stronger than the 3.2 then, or are they much the same ?
I thought the 3.2 was supposed to be stronger, AFAIK, steel crank.
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car target weight is 650kgs and rear diff is 4.33. so torque not top of the agenda, but is always nice to have.
It's going to need seriously sticky tyres, then, or it'll be traction-limited until half way through 3rd gear. :o
The G33 is a lovely car, though. :-* Looked very closely at them but built a Westfield in the end.
That has a 200BHP 2L lump in it, incidentally (Ford Zetec), rev limit set at 7400, also about 650Kg, and I changed to a 3.64 LSD because it was a joke with the 3.92 open diff I used initially.
Is the 3.0 stronger than the 3.2 then, or are they much the same ?
Not a lot of difference although the 3.2 does apparently have a forged crank, so possibly worth going with it for that reason alone. On the other hand, think it has an odd bore size, though. 3.0 does share piston dimensions with some other engines. C20XE being one that rings a bell (please check before spending money though!), so maybe more support for tuning it?
Main issue with supercharging is temps, piston crown, the rod and crank strength. however as supercharging power is more linear than turbo, it is a bit kinder (sometimes)
A few people have said that the bottom end is the Achilles' heel of this engine, so a big increase in torque might be a bad idea. So might a big increase in revs, of course. ;) For a little car like a Ginetta I would go the NA route, though. I think it'll be a lot more fun.
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traction may be an issue, but we'll have to see how bad it is. sticky tyres are a must.
Diff will be a LSD, so it should help somewhat. the 2.5 will go in for now, and the bigger engine will follow after IVA and a good shakedown
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As a footnote, i have already graphted the front hubs from the omega onto the car. and will continue to use parts from the donor as i go. 4 opt caliper conversion will follow soon
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Why not use a 2.8 V6 Turbo?
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traction may be an issue, but we'll have to see how bad it is. sticky tyres are a must.
Diff will be a LSD, so it should help somewhat. the 2.5 will go in for now, and the bigger engine will follow after IVA and a good shakedown
Might be worth finding a pre-August 1995 engine if it's only going to be for IVA? ;)
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those engines are not designed to race.. you need to build the v6 from scratch with forged internals and better cooling which reqiures a deep budget.. find another engine.. otherwise its waste of time and money..
note :c20let, GM v8 and toyota jz2 are tested and succesful on omega..
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traction may be an issue, but we'll have to see how bad it is. sticky tyres are a must.
Diff will be a LSD, so it should help somewhat. the 2.5 will go in for now, and the bigger engine will follow after IVA and a good shakedown
Might be worth finding a pre-August 1995 engine if it's only going to be for IVA? ;)
Already got a 2.5, it will be fine for IVA. Just want to build up a second engine for later.
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those engines are not designed to race.. you need to build the v6 from scratch with forged internals and better cooling which reqiures a deep budget.. find another engine.. otherwise its waste of time and money..
note :c20let, GM v8 and toyota jz2 are tested and succesful on omega..
Who said race ?? !!
Stronger internals aren't an issue, i was just trying to find out if anybody had actually done anything or pushed an engine to breaking point.
as for the other engines, they are not as compact as the V6, i spend alot of time finding the right engine, for size and weight distribution. V8 is to big. And its not going in an Omega !! as stated in the thread, its going in a Ginetta
And defo no turbo's, has to be linear power delivery and i dont want all the pipework associated in the engine bay.
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those engines are not designed to race.. you need to build the v6 from scratch with forged internals and better cooling which reqiures a deep budget.. find another engine.. otherwise its waste of time and money..
note :c20let, GM v8 and toyota jz2 are tested and succesful on omega..
Who said race ?? !!
as for the other engines, they are not as compact as the V6, i spend alot of time finding the right engine, for size and weight distribution. V8 is to big. And its not going in an Omega !! as stated in the thread, its going in a Ginetta
And defo no turbo's, has to be linear power delivery and i dont want all the pipework associated in the engine bay.
"My final aim is circa 300hp, i just wanted to know if it could be done through N/A tuning or whether i would have to use"
::) for what you will use 300 bhp.. for picnic ? ;D
"Stronger internals aren't an issue, i was just trying to find out if anybody had actually done anything or pushed an engine to breaking point"
ask mr Admin, he eats the standard internals before breakfast while heating up ;D
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::) for what you will use 300 bhp.. for picnic ? ;D
You can never have enough power, Mr cem, never enough.
ask mr Admin, he eats the standard internals before breakfast while heating up ;D
:-[
I always let it heat up and cool down properly. But between those times ::).
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CEM^^^ not sure why its funny. serious question, just wanted answers from experienced engine builders. i dont think 300hp is alot either. depends what you are used to
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Why not use a 2.8 V6 Turbo?
Out of interest, how closely related are the later 2.8s to the Omega V6s? I know the Vectra's 3.2 was a FWD version of the Omega 3.2...
This has nothing to do with a very cheap ex-plod 2.8 Vectra that's kicking about...
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Why not use a 2.8 V6 Turbo?
Out of interest, how closely related are the later 2.8s to the Omega V6s? I know the Vectra's 3.2 was a FWD version of the Omega 3.2...
This has nothing to do with a very cheap ex-plod 2.8 Vectra that's kicking about...
Not even remotely
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Why not use a 2.8 V6 Turbo?
Out of interest, how closely related are the later 2.8s to the Omega V6s? I know the Vectra's 3.2 was a FWD version of the Omega 3.2...
This has nothing to do with a very cheap ex-plod 2.8 Vectra that's kicking about...
Not even remotely
Bah! Suspect it's much more like a Saab then?
Apologies for the lack of grammar in my posts this evening, my head's on back to front after work.
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marknorton - no idea how high you can go, but clearly increasing the redline is the "easy" way to produce more power. Obviously, there is a point it will eat itself, though not sure any of us know where that is.
Contrary to what I said earlier, as its not an Omega, exhaust manifold (as you probably have lots of scope for placement) may help a bit, although 3.2 is nowhere near as bad as the 2.5/3.0 manifold. Megasquirt or similar ECU makes playing with parameters much easier. Kevin Wood knows a lot about Megasquirt, having dumped the Webers and fitted Megasquirt to his Zetec powered Westfield.
I hope you will keep us updated with progress, both with the 2.5 and 3.2, in the same way lozzzzzz has with fitting a GM V6 in his Scimitar :y
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CEM^^^ not sure why its funny. serious question, just wanted answers from experienced engine builders. i dont think 300hp is alot either. depends what you are used to
300 bhp is not necessary for daily usage unless you drag at traffic lights or some other.. here are very good mechanics that can tell you why 300 bhp is a tall order for GM v6.. all I can say is dont waste your money with the wrong engine..
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CEM^^^ not sure why its funny. serious question, just wanted answers from experienced engine builders. i dont think 300hp is alot either. depends what you are used to
300 bhp is not necessary for daily usage unless you drag at traffic lights or some other.. here are very good mechanics that can tell you why 300 bhp is a tall order for GM v6.. all I can say is dont waste your money with the wrong engine..
I've been in a Monaro with 620bhp, that felt quite adequate for daily usage ;D
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CEM^^^ not sure why its funny. serious question, just wanted answers from experienced engine builders. i dont think 300hp is alot either. depends what you are used to
300 bhp is not necessary for daily usage unless you drag at traffic lights or some other.. here are very good mechanics that can tell you why 300 bhp is a tall order for GM v6.. all I can say is dont waste your money with the wrong engine..
I've been in a Monaro with 620bhp, that felt quite adequate for daily usage ;D
I want to see, you use all this power in London.. and all police after you ;D :y
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Ah but if you're going to play the "You don't need X bhp" game - you don't need 200hp either, or whatever a 2.5V6 produces ;) Somewhere around 90hp ought to be plenty...
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I think this has gone off topic, simple questions asked, simple answers required
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ok.. simple answer: bottom end will not permit..
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Cem, so what you are saying is with a steel crank and a rebuild the bottom
End is still not upto the job ?
And is this your opinion or experience in tuning the v6 to destruction ?
I am not after speculation, just experience
Money is not the primary consideration
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I think the fact remains, nobody has tried it.
We know the turbo'd (by those useless idiots at Courtney), the 3.0l knocks out the bottom end in time. Not sure what power that puts out. The 3.2 supposedly has a stronger crank. How much stronger?
Sadly, as you say, you are the trailblazer here...
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you wont come any were near 300 bhp with out turbo or supercharger
lets put some prices
fast raod cams for 3.0 or 3.2 500£ or more
manifolds in uk 1k£ if you find someone who will make them for you
exhaust system with sports cats 800-1K £
clutch with light fly wheel 300-500£
ECU master 150£+
and many other little things ££££
then maybe bigger brakes??
btw I know someone who done all this and much more in his omega and come up to 265 bhp try at few different RR
any way good luck with you project :y :y
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Have you ever considered something mad - Renault ( god i hope i will not be banned for this :-\). To be fair what i have in mind was designed by best engineers from renault, peugeot and citroen. If my memory is correct it has won award for its smoothness and the way it delivers power. Probably the best petrol engine ever produced in France.
Just check if L7X will fit your criteria ( fitted to laguna mk1 ph2, espace, vel satis, avantime, and peugeot 406, 407, some citroens as well).
Previously I had Espace with such engine - its 3.0 v6 24v with 194bhp stock (or 210 depending on a inlet manifold and other bits). I think crank on that is way better for handling torque than any GM.
Now when tuning is concerned - it was fitted to clit v6 cup. Power output was increased there. Additionally i believe at some point it was turbocharged for a bigger kick :)
Its all just a thought.
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Cem, so what you are saying is with a steel crank and a rebuild the bottom
End is still not upto the job ?
And is this your opinion or experience in tuning the v6 to destruction ?
I am not after speculation, just experience
Money is not the primary consideration
yes.. and besides even if you reach 300 bhp you will have a cooked engine within short time..(it has serious cooling issues..)
for less money you can get another engine designed for high performance and achieve the result in shorter time..
I'm afraid most tuners on omega choose the easier path.. :-\
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here is a good list of powerful v6 engines
http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/the-25-greatest-v6-powered-cars-ever.html (http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/the-25-greatest-v6-powered-cars-ever.html)
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You're all missing the point, the OP has looked, anf the 54 degree GM V6 is the right package size. So that has to be the basis
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I'll pitch in and say that at 300BHP, provided it's built right, it'll not eat itself.
The main problem with the GM 54 degree V6 is that the thermostat opens at too high at temperature ( for emissions reasons ). That makes the oil very short-lived and effects the big end bearings. With a decent mass coolant temperature, the engine will live fine at that sort of power rating.
Staying natasp, the power curve is going to be a VERY sporty shape to achieve that power rating. Going forced induction may be a more sensible way, as that usually gives the bottom end a lighter load than a natasp of the same power.
Don't forget that the 3-litre is basically a Vauxhall "red-top" with two extra cylinders.
Swindon Race engines used to sell motorsport 54 degree engines with 400 BHP. I have a spec sheet somewhere.
I certainly wouldn't change the bottom end rotating weight at all - especially the con. rods or pistons. This engine is a very strange design in that its a V6, but with 6 crankpins. That would be a recipe for disaster - the balancing recipe will be pretty unique and not want to be vexed.
So. Cams and compression to match, together with a bespoke inlet system and aftermarket injectio will get your power demand. Budget £5k for this.
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Interesting project, with a common sense approach by the owner for once.
Is there any scope to strengthen the bottom end? Or it is just a case of rebuilding with a new bottom end and starting a fresh...?
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certainly start afresh, thereafter its all down to oil supply. So, a good clean supply of cool oil is the secret, which means a different cooler and better hose routing. And of course a coolant mass temperature which won't fry the oil.
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I'll pitch in and say that at 300BHP, provided it's built right, it'll not eat itself.
The main problem with the GM 54 degree V6 is that the thermostat opens at too high at temperature ( for emissions reasons ). That makes the oil very short-lived and effects the big end bearings. With a decent mass coolant temperature, the engine will live fine at that sort of power rating.
Staying natasp, the power curve is going to be a VERY sporty shape to achieve that power rating. Going forced induction may be a more sensible way, as that usually gives the bottom end a lighter load than a natasp of the same power.
Don't forget that the 3-litre is basically a Vauxhall "red-top" with two extra cylinders.
Swindon Race engines used to sell motorsport 54 degree engines with 400 BHP. I have a spec sheet somewhere.
I certainly wouldn't change the bottom end rotating weight at all - especially the con. rods or pistons. This engine is a very strange design in that its a V6, but with 6 crankpins. That would be a recipe for disaster - the balancing recipe will be pretty unique and not want to be vexed.
So. Cams and compression to match, together with a bespoke inlet system and aftermarket injectio will get your power demand. Budget £5k for this.
without forged setup which is quite important..
I think 5k£ is an underestimate.. unless you use second hand parts.. only a good supercharger will cost one third to half of it..
I know some modding enthusiasts here.. which have deep pockets.. generally the estimated budgets go more than double even without bang..
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Consider that a C20XE will make 200BHP+ all day long on standard internals, hot cams, some porting and decent induction and exhaust so I wouldn't be surprised if the V6 would make pro-rata 300BHP with similar reliability. More so if the 3.2 is used, which has greater capacity and a stronger crank.
In a 650kg car it won't get abuse for long periods either. You'll run out of road. ;D
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I did some search..
and found this
http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-2005-Lotus-Sport-Exige.htm (http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-2005-Lotus-Sport-Exige.htm)
most powerful v6 as 2woody mention.. but there is a detail.. they need to be built every 5k miles ::)
seems like same subject discussed many times over the net
"Lotus did do a NA race version with 400bhp, but needs a rebuild every 5000miles "
from
http://www.opelaus.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-28328.html (http://www.opelaus.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-28328.html)
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...... and the 54 degree GM V6 is the right package size......
Maybe true, but if my memory serves me well then Renault is the same degree v6.
And I am mentioning this engine only due to the fact that when choosing something reliable no one will think renault.
To be fair it has a very small problem with coilpack, but if its going to be used with custom ecu one can use different coils from different car make.
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Thanks for all the replies
A bottom end rebuild is a certainty. Top end will get cams and re-worked heads.
as for cooling, idont know much about the oil system, so i will look at this in more detail at some point, water cooling - i know somebody who builds custom rads, so thats an easy sort. the rest of the ssyetm will be simplified and thermostat removed. A controlled electric water pump will regulate flow and temp ( i have done this many times before)
I have built alot of engines before, i know alot of machine shops and i do 'custom' build ups (from non conventional parts- as long as they will work/fit once machined), so i have a few ideas already.
individual throttle butterflies may help breathing, and i will be using MAP sensor rather than the MAF.
Thanks again for the replies to the thread , all good.
I'll start a build thread soon, as most of the parts i am using are Omega and then modified somewhat.
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...... and the 54 degree GM V6 is the right package size......
Maybe true, but if my memory serves me well then Renault is the same degree v6.
And I am mentioning this engine only due to the fact that when choosing something reliable no one will think renault.
To be fair it has a very small problem with coilpack, but if its going to be used with custom ecu one can use different coils from different car make.
that engine was considered, but mating it to a RWD gearbox can prove a headache. I went through alot of V6 engines !
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...... and the 54 degree GM V6 is the right package size......
Maybe true, but if my memory serves me well then Renault is the same degree v6.
And I am mentioning this engine only due to the fact that when choosing something reliable no one will think renault.
To be fair it has a very small problem with coilpack, but if its going to be used with custom ecu one can use different coils from different car make.
I'm using race developed K4M daily, very robust engine.. and never had any problems except alternator..
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A controlled electric water pump will regulate flow and temp ( i have done this many times before)
I'd be interested in picking your brains on that :y
It's going to be good to see what you come up with :) FWIW I'm with 2woody & Kevin on the potential.. and it should go like the proverbial off a shiny shovel in the Ginetta!
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A controlled electric water pump will regulate flow and temp ( i have done this many times before)
I'd be interested in picking your brains on that :y
It's going to be good to see what you come up with :) FWIW I'm with 2woody & Kevin on the potential.. and it should go like the proverbial off a shiny shovel in the Ginetta!
The electric pumps and controllers are great. They control flow against temp. At start up minimal flow (remember no thermostat) so engine warms up quick, once warm, the pump speeds up flow to maintain temp. Also used with electric fan set-up.
Has the benefit of running after the engine is switched off, coupled with the electric fan, gives engine time to cool and reduces hot spots.
I think 300hp is a realistic target for the v6 without spending shed loads. Main costs will be cams and rods. I think i can match the pistons for a reasonable cost.
Bike TB's should help (6 No) and reducing the parastic losses like the flywheel, a/c pump , p/s pump and lighter crank pulley will aid pickup.
Omex/emerald management will provide tuning and map flexibility with a MAP sensor.
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Give Swindon racing engines a ring, they help develop the 2.5 v6 in the vectra gsi over the vectra Sri, they built all the 2.5 v6's for the vectra challenge series back in the day.
Very knowledgable people, Ive spoken to them when tuning my vectra 3.0 gsi
Cheers Dean
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The Omega radiator is gigantic for the car in normal circumstances, so I wouldn't be changing that.
The block has a weird coolant flow route, including a "dual-pass" thermostat, so removal is going to be a bit more difficult than you might think.
Hang on - let's just go and have a look at a bare block I've got....
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.....right-0 have been & seen
you'll need to make up a coolant inlet which goes into the aperture left by removing the coolant pump. This'll make things easier for you as these engines have the cool inlet to the block at the rear of the block, with the ingested coolant going through the oil cooler and into the back of the water pump.
Have seen many electric water pumps fail, most due to installation issues. the "standard" pump is much more fail-safe.
my solution would be to remove the oil cooler and pass the coolant to the water pump through a separate pipe inserted into the block.
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Where does the coolant flow after the pump? This has always puzzled me. IIRC there's a passage from the pump into each bank but does this go straight up into the heads or into the block? I'm guessing it goes down one and up the other on each bank, then to the thermostat?
IIRC there's a bypass passage from below the thermostat back to the pump that would need to be blanked off if going to an EWP.
One thing that's always worried me about controlling the temperature solely using an EWP is that you won't get the rapid internal circulation of coolant during warmup that you'll get when the thermostat's bypass is open, so will you get hot spots?
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The Omega radiator is gigantic for the car in normal circumstances, so I wouldn't be changing that.
The block has a weird coolant flow route, including a "dual-pass" thermostat, so removal is going to be a bit more difficult than you might think.
Hang on - let's just go and have a look at a bare block I've got....
will have a custom rad built up (i know somebody), with additional capacity. original omega rad will not fit in the car.
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One thing that's always worried me about controlling the temperature solely using an EWP is that you won't get the rapid internal circulation of coolant during warmup that you'll get when the thermostat's bypass is open, so will you get hot spots?
the water pump isn't at dead stop, there is scope for small( or whatever) flow rate when warming up.
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The Omega radiator is gigantic for the car in normal circumstances, so I wouldn't be changing that.
The block has a weird coolant flow route, including a "dual-pass" thermostat, so removal is going to be a bit more difficult than you might think.
Hang on - let's just go and have a look at a bare block I've got....
definitely..
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this winter im going full steinmetz with a blower on a 3.2 looking at 320 bhp easy ,oil is the thing im looking into getting it cool. working on block now. :y
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The coolant pump has a radial slot to each side from which the coolant flows into the block and around the cylinder jackets. From there it moves up into the heads and then back into the block to the thermostat hollow.
With the 'stat closed, there's a passageway for some of the coolant to bypass and allow the circuit to function, but forcing more coolant than normal up through the coolant bridge and to the heater.
with no thermostat, this passageway must be blocked. The pump must also be run during warm-up to allow coolant to circulate and prevent hot-spots and to prime the heater. It'll be a very delicate task. I'd advise the OP to do this on the 2.5 first, so it doesn't matter if he blows it up. As said, much lower risk to persevere with the mecanical coolant pump and thermostat.
You really need a way to pump coolant around the block whilst preventing flow to the radiator.
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The coolant pump has a radial slot to each side from which the coolant flows into the block and around the cylinder jackets. From there it moves up into the heads and then back into the block to the thermostat hollow.
With the 'stat closed, there's a passageway for some of the coolant to bypass and allow the circuit to function, but forcing more coolant than normal up through the coolant bridge and to the heater.
with no thermostat, this passageway must be blocked. The pump must also be run during warm-up to allow coolant to circulate and prevent hot-spots and to prime the heater. It'll be a very delicate task. I'd advise the OP to do this on the 2.5 first, so it doesn't matter if he blows it up. As said, much lower risk to persevere with the mecanical coolant pump and thermostat.
You really need a way to pump coolant around the block whilst preventing flow to the radiator.
ok, I understand this better now, so a 2 pump set-up maybe required or a leave the stat in or even a motorised valve arrangement.
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I'm pretty sure someone makes a cool running thermostat.. Swindon perhaps? Maybe there are cooler thermostats from other applications that would fit? Seems a much simpler and more reliable solution, to be honest.
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I'm pretty sure someone makes a cool running thermostat.. Swindon perhaps? Maybe there are cooler thermostats from other applications that would fit? Seems a much simpler and more reliable solution, to be honest.
I think you may be right
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Ahh. It was Courtenay. :-\
http://www.courtenaysport.co.uk/v6-tuning/info_21.html (http://www.courtenaysport.co.uk/v6-tuning/info_21.html)
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£144 for a thermostat !! :o........thats beyond taking the p1ss. ::)
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£144 for a thermostat !! :o........thats beyond taking the p1ss. ::)
Its £25, £144 is for fitting
phew !
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Just reviving this thread, a thought occured to me, if building up a stronger v6 from scratch would using the 3.0 as a base with the knowledge of shared pistons (easy to get hold of forged items) would the 3.2 steel crank fit the 3.0 block ?
ie are the journels the same ? could it be machined ?
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Lookiing at the bearings specs and the fact that the block casting is the same (so mains spacing etc is the same) it should fit.
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I thought the Y32SE crank had a slightly longer stroke, though?
Depends if the piston deck height and/or rod length takes this up.
That's not to say there isn't a combination of parts that would work, maybe some skimming of the pistons required, and calculation of the resulting CR?
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I thought the Y32SE crank had a slightly longer stroke, though?
Depends if the piston deck height and/or rod length takes this up.
That's not to say there isn't a combination of parts that would work, maybe some skimming of the pistons required, and calculation of the resulting CR?
Slightly longer stroke and wider bore.
Pretty sure something can be found to fit or be made to fit
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Food for thought then, thanks gents
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There used to be a Vectra ST down Pembrokeshire way running a supercharger on a 3L lump pushing 300bhp, I can't remember what was done but I do remember that he reduced the power due to being advised by his tuner that he was not sure if the bottom end could take it, you may be able to find the build still floating around online somewhere.
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Are you sure about 300 hp? often rev up to 6K? maybe better to concentrate more tq ;)
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...... and the 54 degree GM V6 is the right package size......
Maybe true, but if my memory serves me well then Renault is the same degree v6.
And I am mentioning this engine only due to the fact that when choosing something reliable no one will think renault.
To be fair it has a very small problem with coilpack, but if its going to be used with custom ecu one can use different coils from different car make.
that engine was considered, but mating it to a RWD gearbox can prove a headache. I went through alot of V6 engines !
I thought Volvo used it in thier 260 :-\ which was RWD