Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Sam Burton on 15 August 2012, 18:47:59

Title: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: Sam Burton on 15 August 2012, 18:47:59
Hi guys,

Ive seen this on the bay of E, just incase anyone was looking to do a conversion for the 2.5 Plastics

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vauxhall-vectra-omega-v6-metal-alloy-cam-covers-2-5-3-0-/160861807741?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item25741c647d#ht_800wt_1271

Im not selling it i just saw it and thought may be usefull for someone  :y
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: albitz on 15 August 2012, 18:55:28
Why would anyone want to ?
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: Johnny English on 16 August 2012, 03:52:52
Yes,why? Noone of guru's recommend .

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=96014.msg1202598#msg1202598
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: Sam Burton on 16 August 2012, 10:51:25
Quote
Im not selling it i just saw it and thought may be usefull for someone
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: TheBoy on 16 August 2012, 13:07:32
Its strongly recommended by the vast, vast majority of our members NOT to use those crappy alloy ones.
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: omega3000 on 16 August 2012, 13:34:26
Its strongly recommended by the vast, vast majority of our members NOT to use those crappy alloy ones.

 :-X
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 16 August 2012, 13:42:18
There is nothing WRONG with using them, providing you keep your breathers squeaky clean. If you use them and don't keep breathers clean - this can cause other, more annoying, seals to blow!

However, if your breathers are squaky clean - the plastic covers will not cause you any problems.

So - Whilst they are fine to use, there is believed to be no real advantage to using them, providing youre car is properly serviced...
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: omega3000 on 16 August 2012, 13:55:12
There is nothing WRONG with using them, providing you keep your breathers squeaky clean. If you use them and don't keep breathers clean - this can cause other, more annoying, seals to blow!

However, if your breathers are squaky clean - the plastic covers will not cause you any problems.

So - Whilst they are fine to use, there is believed to be no real advantage to using them, providing youre car is properly serviced...

 :y

Ive not fitted any but but was going to aquire some  ;) clean breathers regular and should be fine like you say ...
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 16 August 2012, 15:03:09
I wouldn't go out of your way to get them especially.... better off buying loads of carb cleaner :D :y
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: tunnie on 16 August 2012, 15:05:42
Anyone who fits them is just asking for serious issues, countless advice here against it, years of OOF experience ignored  ::)
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: TheBoy on 17 August 2012, 09:17:39
Trouble is, people fit them to overcome the (mythical) warped cover problem.

OK, if you want to fit them for styling, well thats your choice, but they look shite, as they are 'wrong' for the design of engine in RWD trim.

Even if you do fit them (but why?) and clean the breathers fully and often, we'll be dealing with the aftermath of when the car gets a new owner, and is angry why the crank seals are so weak, and tell him that the Omega isn't really a crap car, only previous owners are  :-X
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: Jimbob on 17 August 2012, 09:29:11
And you have to use a funnel to top up / change the oil with them fitted.
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: Abiton on 17 August 2012, 09:31:53
The plastic ones are undeniably crap though. Has anyone here been on any other car forum where there are anything like as many threads about camcover oil leaks?  ;D
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: albitz on 17 August 2012, 09:43:21
Leaks are due to a lack of basic maintenance.It really is that simple. ;)
Clean breathers and change oil regularily and they wont leak. :y
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: Elite Pete on 17 August 2012, 09:52:42
The plastic ones are undeniably crap though. Has anyone here been on any other car forum where there are anything like as many threads about camcover oil leaks?  ;D

Yep, Alfa 156 has the same set up and problems ::)
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: Abiton on 17 August 2012, 10:02:10
The plastic ones are undeniably crap though. Has anyone here been on any other car forum where there are anything like as many threads about camcover oil leaks?  ;D

Yep, Alfa 156 has the same set up and problems ::)

Interesting.  Same set up as in plastic covers held only down their centrelines?
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: omega3000 on 17 August 2012, 10:32:13
Makes you wonder why they fitted the alloy covers to the vectra and not the omega  :-\
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: tunnie on 17 August 2012, 11:14:20
The breather setup on the Vectra is different
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: TheBoy on 17 August 2012, 14:06:40
Well, the combined membership here can only give the very extensive advice they have learnt and experienced since the dawn of the forum.

Its up to individuals to listen to that advice.

Many have chosen to ignore the excellent advice on offer, usually to their cost.


You pays yer monies,, yer takes your choice.
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: jibberwobble on 18 August 2012, 02:13:35
I will admit to having done this conversion on my last omega. At the time I was not aware of the breather problem being quite as severe as it would seem to be and just thought it was another little niggle that didn't help the situation. Once I found this out I became pretty regimental about keeping them clear.

The sole reason for fitting them was because the originals were dead, one side of the channel that retains the seal was broken away in a few places and when the covers were placed on a flat surface they were clearly bowed. The seals had been changed two months before I bought the car and they were leaking already. I had them done again and they leaked almost straight away. I changed the seals again myself with the help of a competent mechanic and obtained all parts from Vauxhall and correctly torqued but didnt hold much hope due to the state they were in. Needless to say I needed another solution.

So after getting over the shock of being quoted for new ones from Vauxhall (I think they were well over a ton per side but may be wrong) I spent an age looking for second hand ones in good condition but drew a blank. In the end I went for the metal covers out of desperation and I can see why others might do the same especially if they have not come across this and similar sites as was the case for me.

My current car had brand new covers and breathers 4 months before I bought it so hopefully I'll not be cornered like that again.

So if the breather system is different on the vectra and that is fine with the metal covers doesn't that point at the omega breather system being rather susceptible?

Sorry I've written another long and boring story!
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: TheBoy on 18 August 2012, 09:59:50
So if the breather system is different on the vectra and that is fine with the metal covers doesn't that point at the omega breather system being rather susceptible?
The Vectras with this type of cover frequently blow crank seals. Thats how we know that the crank seals are the next problem area if excess pressure can't release via cam covers ;)

Interesting to note that the later Vectras used plastic covers ;)
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: Nick W on 18 August 2012, 10:53:14

So if the breather system is different on the vectra and that is fine with the metal covers doesn't that point at the omega breather system being rather susceptible?


All the posts on this subject don't just point at it; they prove it. Conclusively.

The whole system -both breathers and cam covers- are over complicated, and evenworse, under developed. That's obvious from the fact that the damn things leak, and are fiddly and expensive to put right. The fact that a modern engine is more leak prone than, say an A-series, is pathetic. If the Japanese can make millions of mass market engines that are utterly oil tight, why should we accept ones that aren't?
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: tunnie on 18 August 2012, 11:08:30
They only leak if basic maintenance is neglected, done right they last 100k & 10 years  ;)
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: omega3000 on 18 August 2012, 14:51:36
So if the breather system is different on the vectra and that is fine with the metal covers doesn't that point at the omega breather system being rather susceptible?
The Vectras with this type of cover frequently blow crank seals. Thats how we know that the crank seals are the next problem area if excess pressure can't release via cam covers ;)

Interesting to note that the later Vectras used plastic covers ;)

Which year was that  :-\
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: jibberwobble on 19 August 2012, 00:41:25
They only leak if basic maintenance is neglected, done right they last 100k & 10 years  ;)

So I should be good for 5-6 years at over 20k per anum and by then the car will have rusted away anyhow.

If they go prematurely with good maintenance I might have to cry or something!

I wonder if stooging around all the time like a grandad helps these things to clog up?
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: albitz on 19 August 2012, 06:11:08
At 20k per annum I would clean the breathers etc. at least twice per year and change the oil at least four times. ;)
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: tunnie on 19 August 2012, 09:04:40
Yup, as Albs suggests, at that mileage, I'd be looking to change oil every 5k. Maybe tad less if you are doing a lot of town work  :y
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: TheBoy on 19 August 2012, 09:21:54
There are things you can do to help keep breathers clear - a decent oil (not Castrol!!) coupled with regular changes. If you do short jounerys, change more often.  If the underside of the oil filler cap regularly gets a mayo on it, the breathers are likely to block quicker.


To the person who mentioned the A series, I'm pretty certain that breathed to outside air, which wouldn't be allowed on a modern car. Can't remember, its about 20yrs since I last looked at an A series engine.
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: Andy H on 19 August 2012, 09:55:25
Even 50 years ago it was normal to have a 1/2" rubber breather pipe from the crankcase breather to the air filter housing.

It worked well until the engine became worn out (ie anything over 30,000 miles) and breathed hard enough to clog the filter with oil. The problem is worse at idle when the air velocity in the air intake is insufficient to pull the oil mist into the engine. This problem was solved by adding a second, smaller, breather pipe connected to the inlet manifold via a small orifice which looks after the crankcase breathings at small throttle openings. 

The breather systems on modern engines are not really any different. The problem with the Ecotec engine breather system is that some stylist decided to disguise the breather pipes and hide them in a series of restrictive channels in the plastic badge on top of the plenum.  ::)
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: jibberwobble on 19 August 2012, 12:38:52
My engine is due an oil change about now as it goes. I had all the breathers off a few weeks ago when I changed the off side exhaust manifold gasket. Due to being nearly new I found them all to be as clean as a whistle. I have smelt the odd wiff of oil every now and then though but not found any anywhere?

The oil filter housing on my last omega used to weap a bit, is it recomended to stick with the little internal filter and housing or convert to the canister type filter?

Also what oil is recomended. Sorry I know its most likely on here somewhere but the puters dead at the mo and navigating around on my phone is hard going. The motor is on 130k.

I don't do many short journeys. 25 miles to work down the lanes. I try n save fuel when commuting but at least once a week I'm late and it gets a good flogging! Most of the rest of the journeys are to far away race tracks, some with a caravan, some not. Worst case scenario is to the other side of Cumbria with the car fully loaded, huge roof box fully loaded and a ton or so of caravan groaning along behind.
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: albitz on 19 August 2012, 14:01:32
If your getting a whiff of oil check the plug wells for oil and also check it isnt weeping onto an exhaust manifold. Also worth checking that camcover bolts are all tightened to 8nm.No more,no less.
Recommended oil is GM 10/40 semi. Around £12 for 5 litres if you  have access to a trade club card,and buy three.You then get a fourth one free for approx £47.
Some people do convert to the older style screw on filter (an adapter is available from VX) mainly due to the fact that the newer style filter can be troublesome to remove after the torque setting which is cast into the housing has been ignored.
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: jibberwobble on 20 August 2012, 03:46:08
Cheers for that, havent checked the plug wells recently so will have a look. No trade club card though but hey!
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: albitz on 20 August 2012, 06:29:36
Join ABS (£25 pa) and get a card.It will pay for itself the first time you buy 4x5l of oil. ;)
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: jibberwobble on 23 August 2012, 01:56:06
Thanks, good plan but whats ABS? http://www.autobahnstormers.org/ ???????

I have found some oil around the front of the nearside cover ...... Tried the John Cleese aproach by hitting the car with a tree branch but it doesnt seem to have helped,  humph!

Will investigate a bit further when I can jam it in to the schedule.
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: omega3000 on 23 August 2012, 08:09:27
Thanks, good plan but whats ABS? http://www.autobahnstormers.org/ ???????

I have found some oil around the front of the nearside cover ...... Tried the John Cleese aproach by hitting the car with a tree branch but it doesnt seem to have helped,  humph!

Will investigate a bit further when I can jam it in to the schedule.

 :y
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 Alloy Cam Cover Conversion
Post by: jibberwobble on 23 August 2012, 16:13:04
Cheers :)