Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Minispud on 17 April 2008, 21:26:52
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This will make you thank your parents, that you live in the Uk and not New Zealand.
I've just been watching "Motorway Patrol" on Men & Motors, there was a copper in New Zealand that pulled over a Evo 7/8 not sure which, for doing 169 kmh in a 100 kmh limit :-[, it had a $4,000 suspension kit on it, which lowered it very nicely, but this copper said that it made the car very unsafe to drive and gave the driver a "Pink sticker" for the window screen, which means that the car can only be moved via a tow truck. :(
Obviously this copper might know all about speeding etc etc, but when did he become an engineer, he had no idea what he was talking about. He thinks that because the Evo was lower, the handling was going to be bad and unsafe, how very wrong he is. As we all know in this country, if you lower the car, with the right stuff, it's handling will be much better.
This program make for good watching, as half of the coppers have no idea on some of the stuff they give out tickets for ;D ;D ;D
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This is what a uniform does to some people. :(
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Never saw the show.
As to comments, Cop was of opinion that the car was not as standard.
He will have binned the car, requiring a test at an alternate location - test station - so that someone who IS qualified can say that it is or is not safe....
Again, please think about the actions and WHY......
If the car is safely modded, then all happy and roses.....
ps - the same can/will/does happen here, as and when required.... ;)
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Some countries have pretty draconian laws about what you can modify on a car. We're pretty easy going here. As long as it passes an MOT and hasn't had major surgery to the vehicle structure you're OK.
When you think about it, cars are now type approved, so change anything in the specification and technically you've voided that approval because the car no longer matches the type specification.
I suspect that, rather than forming an engineering opinion on the car, the officer had simply identified modifications, and that's not allowed. >:(
If that ever happens here there'll be hell to pay.
Kevin
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Some countries have pretty draconian laws about what you can modify on a car. We're pretty easy going here. As long as it passes an MOT and hasn't had major surgery to the vehicle structure you're OK.
When you think about it, cars are now type approved, so change anything in the specification and technically you've voided that approval because the car no longer matches the type specification.
I suspect that, rather than forming an engineering opinion on the car, the officer had simply identified modifications, and that's not allowed. >:(
If that ever happens here there'll be hell to pay.
Kevin
It is happening and we can't stop it, EU want to force it through, it was discussed over 20 years ago with regard to motorcycles and would kill the accessory industry dead.
BTW complusary headlights in Europe soon
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This is what a uniform does to some people. :(
or maybe he saw a modified car,mangled and full of mangled people the week before,they do see some sights that most of us dont . :-/
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you have also got to remember that there are some countries where modifying a car is an expensive and sometimes troublesome thing to do.....
Some european member states have rules that include engine swaps, you can only do like for like, no performance upgrades. Germany has the TUV which from what i have read is a bit if a pain to pass with non homolgated parts fitted to the car.
Not aware of NZ's rules but this might be something that the owner has fallen foul of.
Personally i would like to see tightening up of modified goods even to the level of TUV, it would ensure better quality goods and each part that is produced has the have a TUV certificate that can be then presented as proof
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you have also got to remember that there are some countries where modifying a car is an expensive and sometimes troublesome thing to do.....
Some european member states have rules that include engine swaps, you can only do like for like, no performance upgrades. Germany has the TUV which from what i have read is a bit if a pain to pass with non homolgated parts fitted to the car.
Not aware of NZ's rules but this might be something that the owner has fallen foul of.
Personally i would like to see tightening up of modified goods even to the level of TUV, it would ensure better quality goods and each part that is produced has the have a TUV certificate that can be then presented as proof
This would be a real pain if you know what you are doing, for example LPG conversions could be classed as requiring this sort of gumpf and it would make it prohibitively expensive
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I prefer the analogy of examinining a Civic/clit/whatever whilst upside down in a field to see that the springs had been sawn through to lower it and then held in place by cableties....
Yes, it happened.
Yes, people died.
Yes, I prohibit vehicles that have been modded that i am unhappy with so that VOSA can verify all is happy and wonderfull...
As a parent, i welcome this...
And I DO NOT apologise for it....
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Problem is, any tightening up of regulation (and it's happening thanks to europe) would also turn into a "jobs for the boys" opportunity and before you know it you wouldn't be allowed to open your own bonnet unless you're a "registered automotive technician" who has done a week of training and pays a couple of hundred quid a year to some regulatory body.
I don't see any problems with the status quo, tbh. If a car's dangerous it won't get an MOT. If it isn't, why should I have to wade through red tape to maintain it myself (or even build it - try registering a kit car in France)?
Kevin
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Problem is, any tightening up of regulation (and it's happening thanks to europe) would also turn into a "jobs for the boys" opportunity and before you know it you wouldn't be allowed to open your own bonnet unless you're a "registered automotive technician" who has done a week of training and pays a couple of hundred quid a year to some regulatory body.
I don't see any problems with the status quo, tbh. If a car's dangerous it won't get an MOT. If it isn't, why should I have to wade through red tape to maintain it myself (or even build it - try registering a kit car in France)?
Kevin
True.... But its 12 mionths between MOT's. What other method is there to examine vehicles in the inetrim??
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Some countries have pretty draconian laws about what you can modify on a car. We're pretty easy going here. As long as it passes an MOT and hasn't had major surgery to the vehicle structure you're OK.
When you think about it, cars are now type approved, so change anything in the specification and technically you've voided that approval because the car no longer matches the type specification.
I suspect that, rather than forming an engineering opinion on the car, the officer had simply identified modifications, and that's not allowed. >:(
If that ever happens here there'll be hell to pay.
Kevin
It is happening and we can't stop it, EU want to force it through, it was discussed over 20 years ago with regard to motorcycles and would kill the accessory industry dead.
BTW complusary headlights in Europe soon
no it wouldn't......
It would ensure the goods were fit for purpose and fit for the vehicle they were being fitted to.
I may sound like a right old killjoy, i am not, i would rather pay good money for items that were designed to fit my car and have been type approved, from a consumers point of view it gives confidence.
Having seen some of the crap on the roads with stick on tat, bug exhausts and bodywork that is rotten to hell its about time something was done to deal with it.
I feel for the police at times, i drink with a couple of traffic guys in Plymouth, they are petrolheads and can spot a shitter when they see one (i'm talking real dogs here not cars that are modified in bad taste) they were telling me if they have an MOT, Tax and insurance then it an be very difficult to get these cars off the road, if any of the above are missing then it can be like shooting fish in a barrel.
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you have also got to remember that there are some countries where modifying a car is an expensive and sometimes troublesome thing to do.....
Some european member states have rules that include engine swaps, you can only do like for like, no performance upgrades. Germany has the TUV which from what i have read is a bit if a pain to pass with non homolgated parts fitted to the car.
Not aware of NZ's rules but this might be something that the owner has fallen foul of.
Personally i would like to see tightening up of modified goods even to the level of TUV, it would ensure better quality goods and each part that is produced has the have a TUV certificate that can be then presented as proof
This would be a real pain if you know what you are doing, for example LPG conversions could be classed as requiring this sort of gumpf and it would make it prohibitively expensive
the kits that i have bought all have TUV approval certs with them, once fitted they are then approved by an LPGA approved fitter, that as far as the law goes is an approved installation to a prescribed standard using goods that have been certified as fit for purpose
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I prefer the analogy of examinining a Civic/clit/whatever whilst upside down in a field to see that the springs had been sawn through to lower it and then held in place by cableties....
Yes, it happened.
Yes, people died.
Yes, I prohibit vehicles that have been modded that i am unhappy with so that VOSA can verify all is happy and wonderfull...
As a parent, i welcome this...
And I DO NOT apologise for it....
This car had a proper kit on it (Coilovers & 2 1/4" springs) not some backstreet hack up job, with a hacksaw and cableties.
-
I prefer the analogy of examinining a Civic/clit/whatever whilst upside down in a field to see that the springs had been sawn through to lower it and then held in place by cableties....
Yes, it happened.
Yes, people died.
Yes, I prohibit vehicles that have been modded that i am unhappy with so that VOSA can verify all is happy and wonderfull...
As a parent, i welcome this...
And I DO NOT apologise for it....
This car had a proper kit on it (Coilovers & 2 1/4" springs) not some backstreet hack up job, with a hacksaw and cableties.
fair enough. Was he 1) able to see that at the roadside and 2) qualified to say that was all good? Personally, I would rather that the man from VOSA who has all the tickets and qualifications regarding testing took any flack, rather than me.....
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Problem is, any tightening up of regulation (and it's happening thanks to europe) would also turn into a "jobs for the boys" opportunity and before you know it you wouldn't be allowed to open your own bonnet unless you're a "registered automotive technician" who has done a week of training and pays a couple of hundred quid a year to some regulatory body.
I don't see any problems with the status quo, tbh. If a car's dangerous it won't get an MOT. If it isn't, why should I have to wade through red tape to maintain it myself (or even build it - try registering a kit car in France)?
Kevin
True.... But its 12 mionths between MOT's. What other method is there to examine vehicles in the inetrim??
Don't get me wrong, I am not disagreeing with an officer requiring an inspection on a vehicle he suspects to be modified. Construction and use regs cover our cars at all times and if they are suspected to have been breached then it's only right for the matter to be investigated.
If modifications / maintenance required some sort of approval it wouldn't stop unscrupulous people doing them, and it wouldn't get them picked up any quicker than at a yearly MOT. It would, however, stand in the way of most of us who like to do quality work on our own cars and make motoring yet more expensive for little if any benefit.
Gliding has just come under European regulation, meaning I now need to seek out a licensed technician to do any job on a glider that's more involved than inflating a tyre. The previous system wasn't broken. Who would entrust their life to something they'd bodged or knew they were not skilled enough to attempt? If anything it's likely to encourage non-reporting of minor problems because of the hassle involved.
Kevin
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I prefer the analogy of examinining a Civic/clit/whatever whilst upside down in a field to see that the springs had been sawn through to lower it and then held in place by cableties....
Yes, it happened.
Yes, people died.
Yes, I prohibit vehicles that have been modded that i am unhappy with so that VOSA can verify all is happy and wonderfull...
As a parent, i welcome this...
And I DO NOT apologise for it....
This car had a proper kit on it (Coilovers & 2 1/4" springs) not some backstreet hack up job, with a hacksaw and cableties.
fair enough. Was he 1) able to see that at the roadside and 2) qualified to say that was all good? Personally, I would rather that the man from VOSA who has all the tickets and qualifications regarding testing took any flack, rather than me.....
Who's to say that the man from VOSA, would be able to say if the car handling would be bad.
My other car is an E36 which I've got a list of Mods planed for it, 80mm suspension drop (coilovers) adjustable lower arms, uprated suspension bushes, bigger discs, 6 pot calipers front, 4 pots on the rear, Goodridge braided hose kit and 18" rims, now please tell me that it will not handle any better that a standard E36
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I prefer the analogy of examinining a Civic/clit/whatever whilst upside down in a field to see that the springs had been sawn through to lower it and then held in place by cableties....
Yes, it happened.
Yes, people died.
Yes, I prohibit vehicles that have been modded that i am unhappy with so that VOSA can verify all is happy and wonderfull...
As a parent, i welcome this...
And I DO NOT apologise for it....
This car had a proper kit on it (Coilovers & 2 1/4" springs) not some backstreet hack up job, with a hacksaw and cableties.
fair enough. Was he 1) able to see that at the roadside and 2) qualified to say that was all good? Personally, I would rather that the man from VOSA who has all the tickets and qualifications regarding testing took any flack, rather than me.....
Who's to say that the man from VOSA, would be able to say if the car handling would be bad.
The same man that says whether it would pass an MOT or not.......
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Who's to say that the man from VOSA, would be able to say if the car handling would be bad.
They're the authority who say what does and doesn't go onto the road in the country so the buck stops there. Having put a car through SVA I can confirm that their front line guys are pretty thorough, and have plenty more expertise to back them up.
Kevin
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Who's to say that the man from VOSA, would be able to say if the car handling would be bad.
They're the authority who say what does and doesn't go onto the road in the country so the buck stops there. Having put a car through SVA I can confirm that their front line guys are pretty thorough, and have plenty more expertise to back them up.
Kevin
But they do not design cars / suspension set ups, Do they
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Who's to say that the man from VOSA, would be able to say if the car handling would be bad.
They're the authority who say what does and doesn't go onto the road in the country so the buck stops there. Having put a car through SVA I can confirm that their front line guys are pretty thorough, and have plenty more expertise to back them up.
Kevin
But they do not design cars / suspension set ups, Do they
correct.
But they do have the responsibility to say whats safe and whats not in day to day life.
Thats the (MOT) system, like it or lump it......
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Who's to say that the man from VOSA, would be able to say if the car handling would be bad.
They're the authority who say what does and doesn't go onto the road in the country so the buck stops there. Having put a car through SVA I can confirm that their front line guys are pretty thorough, and have plenty more expertise to back them up.
Kevin
But they do not design cars / suspension set ups, Do they
correct.
But they do have the responsibility to say whats safe and whats not in day to day life.
Thats the (MOT) system, like it or lump it......
Did I question or have Question the MOT system NO, I stated that the police office had no idea what he was talking about.
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Who's to say that the man from VOSA, would be able to say if the car handling would be bad.
They're the authority who say what does and doesn't go onto the road in the country so the buck stops there. Having put a car through SVA I can confirm that their front line guys are pretty thorough, and have plenty more expertise to back them up.
Kevin
But they do not design cars / suspension set ups, Do they
correct.
But they do have the responsibility to say whats safe and whats not in day to day life.
Thats the (MOT) system, like it or lump it......
Did I question or have Question the MOT system NO, I stated that the police office had no idea what he was talking about.
and I agreed with you.
The Police Officer then referred the vehicle to a testing station so that someone cleverer than whot you or I is can look at it.........
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Who's to say that the man from VOSA, would be able to say if the car handling would be bad.
They're the authority who say what does and doesn't go onto the road in the country so the buck stops there. Having put a car through SVA I can confirm that their front line guys are pretty thorough, and have plenty more expertise to back them up.
Kevin
But they do not design cars / suspension set ups, Do they
correct.
But they do have the responsibility to say whats safe and whats not in day to day life.
Thats the (MOT) system, like it or lump it......
Did I question or have Question the MOT system NO, I stated that the police office had no idea what he was talking about.
and I agreed with you.
The Police Officer then referred the vehicle to a testing station so that someone cleverer than whot you or I is can look at it.........
No the point is "The Police officer" said that because the car had been lowered, it's handling would be very bad.
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Who's to say that the man from VOSA, would be able to say if the car handling would be bad.
They're the authority who say what does and doesn't go onto the road in the country so the buck stops there. Having put a car through SVA I can confirm that their front line guys are pretty thorough, and have plenty more expertise to back them up.
Kevin
But they do not design cars / suspension set ups, Do they
correct.
But they do have the responsibility to say whats safe and whats not in day to day life.
Thats the (MOT) system, like it or lump it......
Did I question or have Question the MOT system NO, I stated that the police office had no idea what he was talking about.
and I agreed with you.
The Police Officer then referred the vehicle to a testing station so that someone cleverer than whot you or I is can look at it.........
No the point is "The Police officer" said that because the car had been lowered, it's handling would be very bad.
That was his opinion, based on experience or the prevailing law of the land in which neither you or I reside..
He then gave the opportunity to be proven wrong by getting the vehicle tested by others....
If wrong, avenue open to use the Sue City approach - wheres theres blame, theres a claim.....
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and I agreed with you.
The Police Officer then referred the vehicle to a testing station so that someone cleverer than whot you or I is can look at it.........
I get what you mean and yeah, Your right, the officer DOES NOT KNOW - so its refered back to be tested by the right people, at the road side the officer can't tell to what level its been done at, what if the set was so hard it was skipping on the road ? Ive seen plenty of coil overs set up badly, so badly there dangerous, no matter how good they look
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Who's to say that the man from VOSA, would be able to say if the car handling would be bad.
They're the authority who say what does and doesn't go onto the road in the country so the buck stops there. Having put a car through SVA I can confirm that their front line guys are pretty thorough, and have plenty more expertise to back them up.
Kevin
But they do not design cars / suspension set ups, Do they
correct.
But they do have the responsibility to say whats safe and whats not in day to day life.
Thats the (MOT) system, like it or lump it......
Did I question or have Question the MOT system NO, I stated that the police office had no idea what he was talking about.
and I agreed with you.
The Police Officer then referred the vehicle to a testing station so that someone cleverer than whot you or I is can look at it.........
No the point is "The Police officer" said that because the car had been lowered, it's handling would be very bad.
That was his opinion, based on experience or the prevailing law of the land in which neither you or I reside..
He then gave the opportunity to be proven wrong by getting the vehicle tested by others....
If wrong, avenue open to use the Sue City approach - wheres theres blame, theres a claim.....
Ok so in your opinion, if you lowered your car say 80mm, then had all of the suspension setting adjusted so that the camber/castor and Toe was correct, it would not handle was well as a Omega on a standard factory setup
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snipped a shed load of quotes -
Ok so in your opinion, if you lowered your car say 80mm, then had all of the suspension setting adjusted so that the camber/castor and Toe was correct, it would not handle was well as a Omega on a standard factory setup
In my opinion, stood at the roadside, looking at a car thats been lowered 80 mm from standard, I'm not qualified to make an opinion.
I then refer it to a place that is and take the matter from there.
We are going in circles now and I'm getting bored....
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and I agreed with you.
The Police Officer then referred the vehicle to a testing station so that someone cleverer than whot you or I is can look at it.........
I get what you mean and yeah, Your right, the officer DOES NOT KNOW - so its refered back to be tested by the right people, at the road side the officer can't tell to what level its been done at, what if the set was so hard it was skipping on the road ? Ive seen plenty of coil overs set up badly, so badly there dangerous, no matter how good they look
You can lower your car by say 100 mm and still get the same level of comfort as a standard setup.
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and I agreed with you.
The Police Officer then referred the vehicle to a testing station so that someone cleverer than whot you or I is can look at it.........
I get what you mean and yeah, Your right, the officer DOES NOT KNOW - so its refered back to be tested by the right people, at the road side the officer can't tell to what level its been done at, what if the set was so hard it was skipping on the road ? Ive seen plenty of coil overs set up badly, so badly there dangerous, no matter how good they look
You can lower your car by say 100 mm and still get the same level of comfort as a standard setup.
Is that on absolutely any car in the world?
Can I quote you?
Whats your engineering experience?
Do you work for a major car manufacturer?
A minor car manufacturer?
A kit car manufacturer?
Or an Airfix/Meccanno concession?
Nite Nite.....
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Is that on absolutely any car in the world?
I'll try it on the one in my garage. Don't think it'll work too well because the wheels won't be touching the ground. ;)
Kevin
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and I agreed with you.
The Police Officer then referred the vehicle to a testing station so that someone cleverer than whot you or I is can look at it.........
I get what you mean and yeah, Your right, the officer DOES NOT KNOW - so its refered back to be tested by the right people, at the road side the officer can't tell to what level its been done at, what if the set was so hard it was skipping on the road ? Ive seen plenty of coil overs set up badly, so badly there dangerous, no matter how good they look
You can lower your car by say 100 mm and still get the same level of comfort as a standard setup.
Is that on absolutely any car in the world?
Can I quote you?
Whats your engineering experience?
Do you work for a major car manufacturer?
A minor car manufacturer?
A kit car manufacturer?
Or an Airfix/Meccanno concession?
Nite Nite.....
night then ;D
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and I agreed with you.
The Police Officer then referred the vehicle to a testing station so that someone cleverer than whot you or I is can look at it.........
I get what you mean and yeah, Your right, the officer DOES NOT KNOW - so its refered back to be tested by the right people, at the road side the officer can't tell to what level its been done at, what if the set was so hard it was skipping on the road ? Ive seen plenty of coil overs set up badly, so badly there dangerous, no matter how good they look
You can lower your car by say 100 mm and still get the same level of comfort as a standard setup.
I doubt my car has that in free movement in the suspension, and as for being as comfy as standard, not a hope in hell