Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: markrnorton on 29 August 2012, 19:51:07
-
I thought I’d start this thread as a few people have asked and secondly a lot of the donor parts for the car are Omega, standard and modified, all V6.
I have always built and modified cars, I don’t do ‘the normal’ , I try and be a bit different, so bear with me on some of what I do.
I also fabricate a lot of parts as well as buy ‘alternatives’ to test, hybrids if you like. Parts machined, laser cut etc etc.
I bought the Ginetta as an unbuilt kit, all the previous owner had done was galvanize the chassis. This G27 came with a 4 cylinder Toyota 1600, which is normally par for the course. Good to give it sub 5 second 0-60. Running gear was based on Triumph spitfire up front and Escort Mk1/2 rear end live axle. I didn’t like the ‘weedy’ Triumph front end and I certainly didn’t want a live axle at the back. It came with what the previous owner described as an Escort axle, he’d welded on all the 5 link set-up as well. What he didn’t check was the ratio, it was a 3.09 – 3.0 Capri. So the axle was 4” to wide anyhow.
Basic spec I wanted was around 200hp with independent rear suspension and meatier front end, still aiming for the 650kgs weight all in.
Moving on, I wanted a v6 manual RWD donor, only 2 candidates really, either S type Jaguar or Omega V6. Jaguar V6 engine is wide and bulky. Vauxhall lump, nice and compact. Sorted.
Bought a nice V6 Omega Estate, MOT and Tax. And am still stripping it ! – got the tax cashed in, sold a few parts already, stripped a lot for donor parts.
So where do I start…
Here’s a few pictures of what I bought to start with….
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/af39d6ec.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/1.jpg)
And this is what it should look like when finished (maybe not blue and maybe with a different bonnet)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/2.jpg)
-
Stripped out the suspension, front brakes and V6 motor and manual gearbox from the Omega estate. Engine and box took about 3-4 hours with a mate to remove. I was originally going to use the ECU and loom, but have no changed my mind. So I ‘hacked most of the connections out !
I will keep the non standard alloys I think for the moment to roll the car about on for the time being (unless I can pick up a really cheap set, then I’ll get rid of them)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/3.jpg)
-
always liked Ginetta,s!!! hmm mark norton, know that name from other forums?posibly rr?
-
First real action (apart from selling the Toyota engine and capri rear axle) was to look at the fron suspension. The car came with the ‘weedy’ but perfectly adequate (?) Triumph front end, it just looks wrong to me, so I decided to re-engine the front using Omega parts from the estate donor.
Here is a couple of pics of the original Triumph front end.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/4.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/5.jpg)
So after stripping the front hubs and brakes off the Omega, and doing a major clean up, thus:-
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/6.jpg)
I reverse engineered the front suspension. I made a jig, bolted it up to the original parts, then removed. Bolting up the Omega hub to the jig I worked backwards to the chassis, fabricating mock up wishbones.
Pics of mock up, note that all joints on the car will be rose joints.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/10.jpg)
-
always liked Ginetta,s!!! hmm mark norton, know that name from other forums?posibly rr?
rr ??
-
Once I was happy with the mock up and the angles it produced against the chassis. ( I have digital inclinometer etc) I moved onto final fabrication.
Using CDS (seamless tubing) and drawing up final parts for cutting and welding (I have these laser cut)
Drawing for parts to be cut
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/7.jpg)
Cut parts
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/8.jpg)
Rose joints were used on the front, with some spacers (made from T6087 alloy) and mis-alignment washers to be safe when assembling.
Once i had all the parts back i welded together, cleaned up and then primed and painted
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/11.jpg)
-
Interesting stuff,keep it coming :y :y
-
these are some of the rose joints used.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/9.jpg)
All are the high performance type and have load capacities far in excess of what i need, but they are light and have zero play, so ideal for accurate suspension and steering.
-
Very interesting project.Look forward to updates as and when they appear. :y
-
Glad you decided to do a write up Mark :y :y :y
-
Final assembly going onto chassis
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/12.jpg)
Offside and nearside upper and lower wishbones. You can see the mechanical upper joint, this is a biggy at ¾”, and the fabrication to attach it to the hub upper. Lower ball joint is standard Omega, it made sense to use one there, less work to do !
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/13.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/14.jpg)
Brake disks I will renew closer to the end of the build , but I will use standard V6 ones as they are plenty big enough to stop a 650 kgs car. I will however buy drilled and grooved disks, I have to source some lightweight alloy calipers too.
Next problems was shock absorbers for my new front end
-
Very interesting project.Look forward to updates as and when they appear. :y
+1 nice interesting work ;)
-
Glad you decided to do a write up Mark :y :y :y
It was about time !
moving on a bit now too
-
The front shocks that came with the kit were shot, big time. Heavy AVO in need of a re-build and rubber bushed. Apart from that they would not fit my new custom front end. So after a bit of measuring and head scratching I decided to have a pair of shocks made.
After a bit of interweb searching, a few shows and a few magazines, I chose to go with Protech shocks, spoke to a very helpful guy there, we ran through exactly what I needed, he made a few comments and we settled on the set-up. He made them up very quick, 3 days. They are coilovers so have adjustable platforms for ride height, light alloy construction with adjustable rebound and compression damping.
Delivered super quick, they are fantastic quality and very very light. Excellent quality too and a very good price with springs.
I had to have an educated guess at the rate as I have no reference point, so went for 325lbs and 7” long.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/15.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/16.jpg)
It appears to have worked out well so far, front suspension action looks good, geometry is spot on (so far).
Now for the steering rack and rear end.
-
Glad you decided to do a write up Mark :y :y :y
It was about time !
moving on a bit now too
I might need to come and have a proper look at it ;)
-
Me too. :y :D......would also be an intersting addition to the Omegas at next years Essex meet. ;)
-
Great reading so far - keep it coming! 8)
-
Mark, this is a fantastic thread, and exactly what is needed on the forum! Keep up the good work, and keep posting the updates! I for one, will be following it with keen interest. :y
-
Me too. :y :D......would also be an intersting addition to the Omegas at next years Essex meet. ;)
No problem, would be good to get out !
-
Me too. :y :D......would also be an intersting addition to the Omegas at next years Essex meet. ;)
As long as you don't bring the Cavalier... the rust might jump!! ;D :-X
-
Typical. Flog me a car and then take the piss out of the rust on it. >:(
:P :D ;D
Anyway,the rust has all been welded back into place now,so its all good. :y ;D
-
The steering rack is one of the only bits of 'original' i will use, its again Triumph Spitfire. A compact rack and 'un-assisted'. Not many modern alternatives and to be honest there is nothing wrong with it.
Some of the more observant among you ;) may have noticed that i have reversed the Omega hubs on my car as the rack connects via the arms to the front, rather than the back.
I'll post up some pics in the next few days when i get it on, needless to say i am using new gaitors and track rod ends. I am also going to ditch the rubber mounts for some solid alloy ones.
In the mean time, bank holiday monday gave me a new purchase, it looks rough, and it is !!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/17.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/18.jpg)
I thought long and hard about the rear end, needed to be independant suspension and not a live axle. The Omega rear end was 10" to wide and hubs would have required to much engineering to make fit. So in the end i went with what the drift boys use ! a nissan s13 rear subframe set-up.
The one i bought is rusty as hell, soooo bad. but once i strip it of its components it should be ok. i only need the hubs, driveshafts and diff.
-
Christ, that rear end is as rough as a badgers arse, lets hope there is still some metal left after sand blasting!
-
Good plus points for the Nissan rear end are:-
- can take abuse
many different diff ratios available
Lots of cheap LSD's , open and two way diffs
roughly the right width
plentiful supply
Downside is it has a complicated set of connecting arms, but this can be overcome (also gives infinate adjustability) and it is only a 4 stud hub, so it will require a conversion to Omega style 5 stud pcd etc etc.
I will make up a 5 stud conversion in the next few weeks, this needs to be done first so i can get the width correct then reverse engineer again onto the back end. I will also use Vauxhall 5 stud rear disks, i need to research this before purchase to make sure offset and hub clearance is ok. I have removed the handbrake shoes from the original hub set-up and will make good with an alternative set-up. I really dont like the shoe in bell set-ups on some cars, really fiddly to change.
-
Christ, that rear end is as rough as a badgers arse, lets hope there is still some metal left after sand blasting!
Very true, most of the crud is on the subframe, which i have ditched. the hubs aren't too bad. i have started the clean up on one already and the diff is fine, (although welded).
It was also one of the heaviest bits of assembly i have ever tried to lift. Had to use the engine hoist to removed from the other halfs boot !
Then some gentle persuasion with a large club hammer, angle grinder, impact wrench and wd40 !
-
For the five stud conversion on the rear, will Z32 hubs fit on? I can't remember if the splines etc are the same (the rear suspension setup is almost identical, I know that much - I thought it looked familiar in the pictures before I read "S13"!)..
-
For the five stud conversion on the rear, will Z32 hubs fit on? I can't remember if the splines etc are the same (the rear suspension setup is almost identical, I know that much - I thought it looked familiar in the pictures before I read "S13"!)..
I believe the Z32 and the S14 hubs are the same as the S13 (all but), not sure if the drive shaft will fit plus the 5 stud on those is a different PCD. Its close but not close enough and too close to re-drill and alter. - if that makes sense
-
Ah yep, that makes perfect sense - I'd forgotten the PCD was different (5x114 on the Z32 IIRC? as you say, too close to 5x110)
-
Just a couple of questions ( please don't take this as criticism per se - I'm hoping to help you do a better job )
What are you doing about the suspension geometry ? those upper arms look mighty short from the photos.
Also, I can't see any anti-dive or anti-squat engineered in.
lastly, do remember that the Omega bottom ball joint is designed such that the spring and damper forces are going through the top of the strut, rather than through the joint itself. You'll be in a position where the spring/damper loads are trying to pull apart the ball joint, which it certainly wasn't designed for.
but, what a great project tho. I've often thought that the 54 degree engine was tailor-made for transplanting into such a vehicle.
-
Agreed great project - keep it coming mate :y
-
Just a couple of questions ( please don't take this as criticism per se - I'm hoping to help you do a better job )
What are you doing about the suspension geometry ? those upper arms look mighty short from the photos.
Also, I can't see any anti-dive or anti-squat engineered in.
lastly, do remember that the Omega bottom ball joint is designed such that the spring and damper forces are going through the top of the strut, rather than through the joint itself. You'll be in a position where the spring/damper loads are trying to pull apart the ball joint, which it certainly wasn't designed for.
but, what a great project tho. I've often thought that the 54 degree engine was tailor-made for transplanting into such a vehicle.
Fair points.
So far as anti dive, i am hoping weight distribution and spring rates will cope to a degree with this, difficult to say until car is finished. the upper wishbone fixing points to the chassis are the original ones so there was little or no scope there to alter the upper wishbone angle relative to the horizon.
Anti squat at the rear has more scope, as this has not been made yet. I do however want some squat under acceleration.
Upper arms are quite short, but with the 3/4" joint they were close to the original suspensions length, plus front droop to full compression give 75mm of vertical travel which is more than enough.
Geometry is a replication of the original, but with full adjustment, i have also added slightly more caster angle to aid self centreing.
Lower ball joint. yes this was a consideration, it was used for a bit of convienience but i did consider it will work for 2 main reasons
1. this car is approx 1/3 of the weight of the Omega so loading will be reduced
2. this car will purely be a sunday drive, if there is a slow failure of the joint changing it every 2 years isnt a big deal
But, if it does cause an issue i will replace accordingly.
:y
-
A splendid thread - well done. 8) :y
-
A splendid thread - well done. 8) :y
What he said
Brilliant thread! :y :y
-
Just as a further note on front geometry, kpi angle and consequent projection is within 5mm of wheel centre.
Will be completing the steering rack tomorrow
-
The Spitfire suspension is actually quite competent, with the possible exception of the screw-trunnion thingy ( which you've replaced ).
It wasn't designed by Triumph, tho. Years ago, there was a company called Alford and Adler ( A & A ), who were a sort of rival to GKN & Burman, making steering components and suspension bits. Theay also had two complete front suspensions on their shelves - a small one and a large one. The small one is the "Triumph" one, used by a few other people as well, like Reliant, Otosan and even a couple of Formula 1 cars.
The large one is the one used on TR6 and the Reliant Scimitar ( SE5/SE6 ).
Don't forget to use the solid steering rack mounts !
-
The Spitfire suspension is actually quite competent, with the possible exception of the screw-trunnion thingy ( which you've replaced ).
It wasn't designed by Triumph, tho. Years ago, there was a company called Alford and Adler ( A & A ), who were a sort of rival to GKN & Burman, making steering components and suspension bits. Theay also had two complete front suspensions on their shelves - a small one and a large one. The small one is the "Triumph" one, used by a few other people as well, like Reliant, Otosan and even a couple of Formula 1 cars.
The large one is the one used on TR6 and the Reliant Scimitar ( SE5/SE6 ).
Don't forget to use the solid steering rack mounts !
I know the Triumph front end would have been ok, i just wanted to update it and 'beef it up' a little :)
Strangely enough i have just ordered the solid steering rack mounts this morning
Thanks for the info
-
Been sorting the steering rack today, fitting the new gaitors was fiddley, especially when the shafts are greased. got the n/s on ok, but the o/s was a git. in the end i soaked it in boiling water for a few minutes and let it soften. went on a treat then.
Tried the new spitfire track rod ends and bugger me they were loose in the Omega's hub steering arm, taper was to small by about 1.2mm. In the end sourced a larger taper set down the motor spares, these are off a Stag, same 1/2" UNF thread but just the job (see pic below). They fit tight into the steering arm now.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/30.jpg)
Rack is now waiting for the solid alloy mounts to arrive, should be tomorrow hopefully, then i can get that bolted down and the track rods ends nipped up.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/31.jpg)
-
Tremendous thread Mark. Well done and thanks for the updates and photos. :y
-
Got the alloy rack mounts this morning, fitted perfectly on the rack.
All the rack is now nipped up and the track rods fitted and nipped, cant do a final setup until the car is finished
Looking tidy now i think.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/41.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/43.jpg)
Time now to move to the rear and get the Nissan back end cleaned up and wishbones fabricated and diff mount sorted. This may take a few weeks !
-
It might be the angle of the photo, now bare with me as I don't know the name for it, but if a line was projected through the botom pin ball joint to hub, and the ball joint above it on the top wishbone, the angle from vertical looking from head on looks quite steep to me.
In other words the wheel might lean over quite alot in full lock/approaching full lock. Is that within limits for this type of design?
Or us it just the camera angle...?
Looks a cracking project though. If only I had the time and didn't want a vxr8 ;D
-
It might be the angle of the photo, now bare with me as I don't know the name for it, but if a line was projected through the botom pin ball joint to hub, and the ball joint above it on the top wishbone, the angle from vertical looking from head on looks quite steep to me.
In other words the wheel might lean over quite alot in full lock/approaching full lock. Is that within limits for this type of design?
Or us it just the camera angle...?
Looks a cracking project though. If only I had the time and didn't want a vxr8 ;D
If you project a line from the bottom ball joint to where the original top mount would have
been, and then drop a line vertically, it will be near as damn it where the top ball joint is me thinks :y
-
It might be the angle of the photo, now bare with me as I don't know the name for it, but if a line was projected through the botom pin ball joint to hub, and the ball joint above it on the top wishbone, the angle from vertical looking from head on looks quite steep to me.
In other words the wheel might lean over quite alot in full lock/approaching full lock. Is that within limits for this type of design?
Or us it just the camera angle...?
Looks a cracking project though. If only I had the time and didn't want a vxr8 ;D
If you project a line from the bottom ball joint to where the original top mount would have
been, and then drop a line vertically, it will be near as damn it where the top ball joint is me thinks :y
well this it, to me from that shot it "looks" a fair bit further inboard to the original top shock mount position. Although this is a different application. :-\
Feel like I'm being picky though, cracking project. Would learn a lot from a build like this. :y
-
Gents, King Pin Inclination
Thats what you was after
No, you aren't being picky. It is quite steep, but appears ok on turning the wheels, and the projected line/angle hits the centre of the wheel at the ground horizon, so it looks ok.
I am however going to make a second set of upper arms (shallower angle) just to see the difference and incase the primary arms create an 'evil' handling car :o
Does that make sense !
Anyhow, all comments are welcomed as nobody knows or always see's everything
cheers guys
-
Gents, King Pin Inclination
Thats what you was after
No, you aren't being picky. It is quite steep, but appears ok on turning the wheels, and the projected line/angle hits the centre of the wheel at the ground horizon, so it looks ok.
I am however going to make a second set of upper arms (shallower angle) just to see the difference and incase the primary arms create an 'evil' handling car :o
Does that make sense !
Anyhow, all comments are welcomed as nobody knows or always see's everything
cheers guys
Ah takes me back - self centering on non power assisted systems and sufficient scrub radius so that you can turn the wheel reasonably easily ;)
-
Gents, King Pin Inclination
Thats what you was after
No, you aren't being picky. It is quite steep, but appears ok on turning the wheels, and the projected line/angle hits the centre of the wheel at the ground horizon, so it looks ok.
I am however going to make a second set of upper arms (shallower angle) just to see the difference and incase the primary arms create an 'evil' handling car :o
Does that make sense !
Anyhow, all comments are welcomed as nobody knows or always see's everything
cheers guys
it certainly does make sense Mark :y
Now if I'd done something like that I'd be hacked off (if indeed it is a problem at all) but if you can fabricate that easily, well, who cares. Just bang out an altered part. All part of the process i guess? Cracking skill set you have there. :)
Look forward to further instalments. Love it. :y
-
Looking good Mark, come on quite a bit since i saw the old girl!
:y
-
Thoroughly enjoying this thread! Way beyond my capabilities, but absorbing nevertheless. Keep it up! :y :y
-
Gents, King Pin Inclination
Thats what you was after
No, you aren't being picky. It is quite steep, but appears ok on turning the wheels, and the projected line/angle hits the centre of the wheel at the ground horizon, so it looks ok.
KPI and ground-level offset.
the king-pin angle is really only important per se for the actual geometry.
the ground-level offset is important for a number of things - notably the steering. The self-centring is driven by the ground-level offset. Zero offset = zero self-centring. A little bit of "trail" makes the car much more stable, too.
-
We after a nice sunny day at Beaulieu auto jumble yesterday (its massive if you've never been), i restrained myself from buying loads of stuff and only bought alot a washers for the build (as they were cheap) and a curly air hose (every garage should have one !)
I also managed to pick up a nice oil cooler which should come in handy later on in the build, a steal at £20
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/35.jpg)
Just waiting now for my new batch of laser cutting to come back now, then i can crack on with the rear suspension set-up and the get the diff mounted.
Once i have a rolling chassis i can then get the engine and gearbox positioned and fabricate the mounts.
-
This is all mandarin Chinese to me :-\... But extremely interesting! Pure admiration for guys like you. Well done, can't wait to see the finished artical :y :y :y :y
-
:y :ybrilliant thread mate :y :y :y
-
Ok, bit of an update. Thought about the welded diff I bought and decided it would be to harsh and not really useable on the car, and the ratio a tad low perhaps.
So I sold the welded diff quite easily and found an S14 LSD that didn’t sell on ebay. So did a deal (including the prop), what a result.
I now have a tidy LSD with a ratio of 3.916:1, which is near enough spot on.
So this is the diff as I bought it
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/51.jpg)
And this is cleaned up a bit and painted
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/52.jpg)
The rear cover is alloy, not sure yet whether I am going to polish it or just clean it fully.
The diff can also run a cooler (as on the Nissan 200sx it came from), not sure if I will run one yet.
I now have to construct a small subframe to carry the diff and attached to the rear of the cars chassis. I am going to make some diff mounts from nylon and turn them down to fit on a lathe.
Must crack on !
-
Been doing a bit of groundwork at the back of the car. Cleaned up the new diff, now I need to locate and fit it to the chassis.
Being originally designed for a live rear axle the chassis has no fixing points for this independent set-up. Not sure how the half shafts will sit either, they may need cutting down to suit the new hub positions.
If you are wondering why I didn’t use the Omega diff, it was a 2 fold decision.
1. The Omega diff is not an lsd, and trying to find one is tricky and expensive
2. The Omega is wide, 10” wider than the Ginetta, and that’s just too much to chop out from each halfshaft.
The plus points for the Nissan lsd diff are, plentiful supply (from the drift scene!), cheap-ish, various low ratios and can run a cooler if necessary.
Anyhow, levelled the chassis, left to right and front to back, this took about 20 mins to do this properly, shimming it here and there. Then set about dummy setting out the rear wheels in the arches, running a plumb line down through the wheel centres.
This gave me the drop line and effective centre of the hubs/shafts. I projected this drop line accros the chassis and ensured I marked the chassis perpendicular to this projection. I started using the laser marker, but it ended up easier to see with string !!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/IMAG0062_zpsbd6a53c0.jpg)
The diff actually locates quite nicely toward the rear of the chassis and close to the cross rails, so it should be easy to fabricate a drop down support for the rear of the diff.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/IMAG0061_zpsc5a42db3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/IMAG0058_zps66b1ae3c.jpg)
I need to fabricate the front diff cross-member first and make some nylon bushes. Once I get the nose supported and positioned I can then double check front/rear/left/right positioning and then get the rear of the diff supported and fabricated.
The diff cooler, if I run one, will be positioned later in the rear end build.
-
I dont normally ask for advice as i like to do my own thing, but in this instance i am a bit in 2 minds.
welding the subframe for the diff in yesterday, it struck me, do i leave the chassis in its galvanized state of colour or do i paint the chassis black ?
not sure what it will look like from underneath
maybe another colour ?
any thoughts ?
-
I'd paint it black - you'll have compromised the galvanising where you've had to strip it off to weld to so you'd need to do something anyway.. might as well paint it a colour that won't stand out if you look under the car (IMHO, anyway, that's why mine is black powdercoat :y)
-
......
welding the subframe for the diff in yesterday, it struck me, do i leave the chassis in its galvanized state of colour or do i paint the chassis black ?
......
You do know that it doesn't do you any good to breathe the fumes from welding galv? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_fume_fever :y
But I'm impressed with your progress. :y :y
-
......
welding the subframe for the diff in yesterday, it struck me, do i leave the chassis in its galvanized state of colour or do i paint the chassis black ?
......
You do know that it doesn't do you any good to breathe the fumes from welding galv? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_fume_fever :y
But I'm impressed with your progress. :y :y
i knew about that, had to grind off the galv to weld fresh metal to it anyhow.
will touch in the welds with a sealant / inhibitor. but black chassis does seem to be a good idea.
-
this was a positioning mock up of the diff, perfect fit, made for the job !
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/IMAG0063.jpg)
took a few dimensions and came up with a bracket for the rear of the diff, will get it laser cut now.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/diffbracket.jpg)
need to just sort the front mounts and turn down some bushes
-
......
welding the subframe for the diff in yesterday, it struck me, do i leave the chassis in its galvanized state of colour or do i paint the chassis black ?
......
You do know that it doesn't do you any good to breathe the fumes from welding galv? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_fume_fever :y
But I'm impressed with your progress. :y :y
i knew about that, had to grind off the galv to weld fresh metal to it anyhow.
will touch in the welds with a sealant / inhibitor. but black chassis does seem to be a good idea.
Don't know why, but I'd be tempted to go with a dayglow orange or something else bright :-\ :-\ ::) ::)
I can't explain why though :-\
-
I'm glad you said that.... I was thinking bright yellow!
-
A bright chassis, i'm up for most things, but i think i'll keep it conventional chaps !
-
Paint it all in a zionc rich etch primer before applying a colour coat as well, it helps a lot to protect the un-galavanised sections after the inevitable stone chips.
And dont forget to write 'Please Turn Over' on the underside.
-
.....
And dont forget to write 'Please Turn Over' on the underside.
That's cruel! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Well still not sure abou the chassis, will dwell on it a bit
Need to get the rear end on and get a rolling chassis. I can start positioning the v6 and gearbox then
-
A bright chassis, i'm up for most things, but i think i'll keep it conventional chaps !
That's understandable ;) I really don't know why I'd be tempted to go bright :-\
-
A bright chassis, i'm up for most things, but i think i'll keep it conventional chaps !
That's understandable ;) I really don't know why I'd be tempted to go bright :-\
Just don't ask Daz for any colour suggestions. ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
do not think about Ford Sierra / Scorpio diff?
aluminum light weight and a lot of them are
-
do not think about Ford Sierra / Scorpio diff?
aluminum light weight and a lot of them are
Sorry, not quite understanding you
-
Guessing the final bit was 'LSD'
Trouble with the Ford diffs are that they are getting very hard to find with only the XR's and Cosworths having LSD's of useable ratio.
-
Yes, i forgot mention LSD ;D
Not necessity cosworth, i found scorpio 2.0, 2.3 was lsd with 3.91 ratio ( or can find open 4.27 ratio (from 2.0 16v scorpio) and mix with lsd from lower ratio)
sierra 2.0 4x4 3.92 with lsd ant a lot of other.
-
Mine came from a 24v Scorpio and is 3.64 LSD.
There's also a company refurbing the viscous LSDs for reasonable money now. I'll have to dig out the info.
-
As Mark DTM mentioned, the ford diffs are getting more difficult to find and come at a cost.
The Nissan set-up is freely available, takes loads of power, is an lsd as standard (some models) and cheap. The rear hub/brake set-up with the half shafts is also pretty good.
Just couldn't see the point of the ford. maybe 10 years ago, but not now.
-
Update on where are have got to now.
received all the laser cutting back, this is most of it as i have used the diff parts.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/IMAG0115.jpg)
Stainless exhaust flanges came out nice, not sure what pattern i will use yet, but both types match up perfect with the head/gaskets
I had marked the front brace position with the diff in, then welded in the front brace with some addition over gussets for added strength and to minimize any tendency to 'twist'.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/IMAG0113.jpg)
here on in it got fiddley, i had to position the diff back in, on all the new brackets i had lasered, level the car, level the diff and then centralise. took a while with a few laser guides and inclinometers but got there. I have only tacked the front supports in and one seam weld on the rear hanger. i have also tacked 2 trianglulation pieces in, and will also fit two vertical drops to the rear to stop that twisting in the chassis.
i am a bit paranoid about the twisting as i watched a kit car programme the other day where the chassis twisted at the rear due to a non standard engine and diff being used (not this kit). so i am over egging things a little, but it should be capable of taking alot of punishment now
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/IMAG0123.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/IMAG0122.jpg)
i will remove the diff tonite and carry on welding it all in so its all at full strength.
-
what are the hoses for ? has it got a cooling pump ?
-
yes, it runs a diff cooler as standard (nissan S14/skyline)
not sure i'll run one yet, i'll wait to see what goes on.
also has a speed sensor in the front and temp sensor at rear
-
did a fair bit of work yesterday and today.
brackets welded in for the diff, with additional boxing, strong now and should support the diff and power to the rear.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/IMAG0132.jpg)
and now painted
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/IMAG0133.jpg)
diff now positioned , bushes in and stainless washers i had cut.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/IMAG0138.jpg)
really pleased with the look now, i used heat resistant aluminium paint, matches up and blends with the galvanised chassis really nice
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/markrnorton/Ginetta%20G27%20build/IMAG0140.jpg)
now onto the mounting of the rear hubs and shafts
-
I need to start considering an engine rebuild as well now, i know a few people, but does anybody on here know any decent engine builders/machine shops in Essex/east london area ?
-
Gosnays Engineering on the A12?
Gosnay's Engineering Company Limited
www.gosnays.co.uk
Mawney Road Junction
Eastern Avenue
Romford
Essex RM7 7NS
Tel: (01708) 740668/743331/748320
Fax: (01708) 733266
Don't know if they can help?
Matthew
-
Looking good Mark :y
-
Cheers Paul
Just starting to fabricate the rear hubs now, as the Nissan ones aren't quite suitable
did you sort your rear coilovers ?
-
Yes mate, all suspension sorted now and she sits & handles SO much better!
I keep meaning to drop you a line about 'something' but monies short with work being so quiet at the moment..... :(
-
wow what a crackin` topic.. :y