Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Y26SE on 30 August 2012, 21:50:26

Title: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Y26SE on 30 August 2012, 21:50:26
Hi all, what's the best system for lpg at the moment but keeping the cost of purchase within a tight budget.
What do people have on there cars and how would you rate your system for economy and reliability. Also do lpg systems get tested at mot time.

Thanks

Mark
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: TheBoy on 30 August 2012, 22:10:38
I use AC Stag 300 Plus on both of my V6 Omegas.  Far from the best, but dirt cheap, and available for DIY, and the setup/configuration software is easily obtained.

Premium systems, such as Prins, have their distribution tightly controlled only to authorised fitters, and the software is not available.
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Entwood on 30 August 2012, 22:21:33
Just as a guide ... DIY with the kit mentioned above costs around £700 IIRC ... :)
my BRC system, fitted, 4 years back .. £2200 ... :(

Savings run at around 38% or 10 - 12p/mile (ish)

Mine has been extremely reliable and has saved me a fortune over 4 years.

MOT emissions are done on the fuel it is running on when presented .. so if its on LPG its tested on LPG .. simplees. The actual install is not an MOT test item, AFAIK.

Car needs to be certified and on the UKLPG register to get insurance with most companies, registering with DVLC gets the V5C changed to dual fuel and saves a wacking great £10 a year for most omegas
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: TheBoy on 30 August 2012, 22:30:54
registering with DVLC gets the V5C changed to dual fuel and saves a wacking great £10 a year for most omegas
Only for 'emissions based' tax, ie 2001 onwards.
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: feeutfo on 30 August 2012, 22:32:06
Define best?

Prins IMO. But expensive and approved installer only.
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: TheBoy on 30 August 2012, 22:33:41
Define best?

Prins IMO. But expensive and approved installer only.
For me, the Stag is 'best' in that there is a fair amount of knowledge on here, and the software is available. Although clearly not the 'best' from a purely technical viewpoint.
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: feeutfo on 30 August 2012, 22:34:58
Define best?

Prins IMO. But expensive and approved installer only.
For me, the Stag is 'best' in that there is a fair amount of knowledge on here, and the software is available. Although clearly not the 'best' from a purely technical viewpoint.
hence my question. ;)
Title: Re: what lpg system is best at the moment?
Post by: Y26SE on 31 August 2012, 09:06:27
Cheers guys, i want to fit what i can afford and ive been mooching on ebay again (sorry) and a stag 300 plus kit from Poland with no tanks

£599

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAG-300-6-ISA2-KIT-LPG-AUTOGAS-SEQUENTIAL-6-CYLINDERS-/200805040365?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ec0e9c0ed#ht_2678wt_1111


£309

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAG-300-6-ISA2-FRONT-KIT-LPG-AUTOGAS-SEQUENTIAL-6-CYLINDERS-CONVERSION-/200809440784?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ec12ce610#ht_2075wt_1111

KME setup.

£399

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KME-LPG-CONVERSION-KIT-6-CYLINDER-FOR-INJECTION-6-CYLINDER-ENGINES-UPTO-250-BHP-/170900084757?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item27ca705815#ht_2220wt_1344

yorkshire auto gas

£499

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LPG-Autogas-conversion-kit-for-5-6-or-8-cylinder-engine-Multipoint-Sequential-/320968390145?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4abb34f601#ht_4315wt_1344


And this guy in wisbech which is closer to me for the certificate afterwards and calibration wants £930 for an AGIS system but includes a tank ect

£930

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LPG-conversion-kit-6-cylinder-car-/160866106515?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item25745dfc93#ht_1195wt_1111



i don't quite know which to go for but i  know i want a donut tank in instead of the spare wheel as i need to keep the estate a useful one and all your experiences are a valued input for me so please keep them coming. ive messages telio about the stag kit that were available last year on here so ill see what happens there.
Thanks

Mark

 
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Y26SE on 31 August 2012, 09:10:49
also whats the best size donut tank for the estate. im going to measure up but i just wanted to reference it to what others have got so i get the right one.

also found autogas do the stag kit.
http://autogas-lpg.co.uk/conversion-kit/38-s-0137.html

or a complete kit with ESGI and tank £555

http://autogas-lpg.co.uk/full-cunversion-kit/375-autogas-conversion-kit-lpg-full-kit-6-cyl-tank-included-0154.html
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: albitz on 31 August 2012, 09:29:38
Have a PM chat with Lazydocker.He is probably the best person to advise,and may be able to get you a better price on a stag system. ;)
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Y26SE on 31 August 2012, 09:37:12
Have a PM chat with Lazydocker.He is probably the best person to advise,and may be able to get you a better price on a stag system. ;)

thanks matey, i forgot to put in i got the telio name to contact from lazydocker  :)
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Lazydocker on 31 August 2012, 09:37:49
Right.... If you can get the kit from Teilo then do because it will have everything you need (except perhaps some spreader plates and washers ::)) My conversion cost me £885.80 completed and inspected (plus some Curry ::)) but I actually bought more tank mounting gear than I needed to in the end.

Tanks: The largest you can get into the estate wheel well (with a little modification) is a 76L GZWM Tank (4 Hole) with a Stako Gas Tight Box. This also required raising the boot floor by about 4". That's a 650mm diameter by 270mm deep tank. It gives a range of anywhere from 200 miles (or less :-[) around town and 280-300 miles on a run when driven quite hard :-X

If you don't want to raise the boot floor then you will (almost certainly) have to go down a diameter size as well so you'd probably only get about 45L tank or so (which would be useless for range IMHO) :-\

The advantage of the Stag kit is that we have good knowledge of it on here and you aren't a million miles from me if you get stuck ;)

Be warned though... Stag only refers to the ECU ;) You need to make sure the injectors and the vaporiser/reducer are up to the job too! This is where we went through some trial and error to find a kit that works ;) Mine (and others) is converted with a KME Gold Reducer and AC Injectors (although these may not be available any more) and pulls cleanly right to the red line :y

Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Lazydocker on 31 August 2012, 09:43:00
Oh, and all of those cheap kits you have selected are not complete ;)
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Y26SE on 31 August 2012, 09:56:09
that would be about right for me lol. that's why im on here as im happy to take advice from people with more experience than me so i don't make to many mistakes ;)

 i messaged telio so hope for a reply on that one soon
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 31 August 2012, 10:00:20
best kit is the worst with an incompetent installer..
 
choose the best installer first :y
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: TheBoy on 31 August 2012, 10:55:01
Both mine were sub £600, complete with everything, and another £100 for the safety test/certification. I obviously use cylinder tanks in my saloon, which are cheaper.

As LD says, the most successful Stag setup we've found so far is AC Stag 300 plus ECU, KME gold vapouriser and AC injectors drilled to 2.2mm.  Some of the other Stag variations suffer a lag on autos during redline gear changes. Tunnie has a Stag on his 2.2, bought from some ebay seller, and its shite, simply because the other components cannot manage the required flow. Anything over about 4k rpm, and its clearly grumpy, before it gives up and flicks back to petrol.

Not sure how much of the 'known good' AC Stag/KME Gold setup Teilo can still get. He is also really hard to get hold of - don't bother emailing or leaving messages with the (virtual) reception, you need to keep trying, and physically speak to him.
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Lazydocker on 31 August 2012, 11:28:00
Both mine were sub £600, complete with everything, and another £100 for the safety test/certification. I obviously use cylinder tanks in my saloon, which are cheaper.

As LD says, the most successful Stag setup we've found so far is AC Stag 300 plus ECU, KME gold vapouriser and AC injectors drilled to 2.2mm.  Some of the other Stag variations suffer a lag on autos during redline gear changes. Tunnie has a Stag on his 2.2, bought from some ebay seller, and its shite, simply because the other components cannot manage the required flow. Anything over about 4k rpm, and its clearly grumpy, before it gives up and flicks back to petrol.

As I told him when we fitted it, and we told him when we calibrated it. Fortunately with Tunnie's driving style 4k RPM is way more than it ever sees ::)

Not sure how much of the 'known good' AC Stag/KME Gold setup Teilo can still get. He is also really hard to get hold of - don't bother emailing or leaving messages with the (virtual) reception, you need to keep trying, and physically speak to him.
He still has most of it, although how long for I don't know. He's moving across to a different brand which he says is good :-\

As for contacting him, I have given different details out this time as the virtual reception and number associated with it no longer exist ;) Once you manage to speak to him he's normally quite good, but not always ::)
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: TheBoy on 31 August 2012, 11:30:10
Fortunately with Tunnie's driving style 4k RPM is way more than it ever sees ::)
Except when he makes me drive it, as a punishment  :'(
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: tunnie on 31 August 2012, 12:04:00
Fortunately with Tunnie's driving style 4k RPM is way more than it ever sees ::)
Except when he makes me drive it, as a punishment  :'(

Your safe for now its untaxed and no MOT. But my trusty steed will ride again soon  :)
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Y26SE on 31 August 2012, 19:21:53
blimey, the setup can be quite hit and miss then.  :-\
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Lazydocker on 31 August 2012, 19:23:58
blimey, the setup can be quite hit and miss then.  :-\

With the right components it's fine ;)
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Y26SE on 31 August 2012, 21:17:09
ok so if i start getting resources together with the Stag setup you have found so far and as described above and if i cant get anywhere with the telio route should i start asking lpg companies for the AC Stag 300 plus ECU, KME gold vapouriser and AC injectors ect and ill go for range as well so ill lift the floor to get the larger tank in :)
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: adey2 on 01 September 2012, 02:03:13
mines got a prinns vsi system on it and even that suffers lag on the redline, if giving large have to back off when close to it to let it select next gear then boot again, ive got used to it now but is a good system and never given any other bother in past 15k miles
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Lazydocker on 01 September 2012, 08:48:59
mines got a prinns vsi system on it and even that suffers lag on the redline, if giving large have to back off when close to it to let it select next gear then boot again, ive got used to it now but is a good system and never given any other bother in past 15k miles
I wouldn't expect that of a Prins system, if it was installed and setup properly :-\
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: feeutfo on 01 September 2012, 09:24:30
mines got a prinns vsi system on it and even that suffers lag on the redline, if giving large have to back off when close to it to let it select next gear then boot again, ive got used to it now but is a good system and never given any other bother in past 15k miles
I wouldn't expect that of a Prins system, if it was installed and setup properly :-\
Yes take it back and tell them to sort it. Has it always had the problem? Or did It gradually creep in gradually?
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 01 September 2012, 21:36:16
As said, that's not right!  :-\  Mine's a Prins system and you can't tell the difference between petrol and LPG!  :) and incidently has done about 165,000 miles since conversion!  :y
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: adey2 on 03 September 2012, 14:08:46
was on the car when i bought it, got all the paperwork from installers
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Y26SE on 03 September 2012, 21:22:43
Can anyone substantiate wether lack of lubrication from the lpg as a fuel will half the life of the engine
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: TheBoy on 03 September 2012, 21:31:18
Can anyone substantiate wether lack of lubrication from the lpg as a fuel will half the life of the engine
The GM V6 engines do not need flashlube
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 03 September 2012, 23:15:20
As said mine's done 165,000 miles since conversion at 50,000 and still going strong!  :)
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: feeutfo on 03 September 2012, 23:30:23
Can anyone substantiate wether lack of lubrication from the lpg as a fuel will half the life of the engine
The GM V6 engines do not need flashlube
on some other Marques It will. I believe GM valve seats are hard enough, citainly there's no issue with the omega engines. There's loads of LPG cars on here, and only one has Flashlube installed afaik. ...and that was only because it came with the kit.

Some fords and I know of one land rover that had real issues running on gas. BMW's it can be very difficult to keep the engine management happy, although will run fine.

But all depends on keeping the map and trims correct, and making cirtain it doesn't run lean. Something some approved installers neglect completely.
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Y26SE on 04 September 2012, 08:48:25
That's fine thank you all. It was something someone told me and I thought I'd double check.
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: gisajob1 on 06 September 2012, 14:25:33
I have a 90ltr tank behind the rear seat, returns approx 400 miles range.
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Lazydocker on 06 September 2012, 14:27:17
I have a 90ltr tank behind the rear seat, returns approx 400 miles range.

That's about right for a 4pot driven gently ;) I could get just shy of 400 miles on a fast run in my 3.0 saloon from my 90L tank ;)
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: TheBoy on 06 September 2012, 19:46:23
I could get just shy of 400 miles on a fast run in my 3.0 saloon from my 90L tank ;)
Miss Daisy!
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Lazydocker on 06 September 2012, 20:22:35
I could get just shy of 400 miles on a fast run in my 3.0 saloon from my 90L tank ;)
Miss Daisy!
380 miles without running out travelling the length of Europe. That was all Autostradabahn (fill up to fill up), cruising between 95 and 130mph, although I must admit the majority of it was around the 105mph mark ;)
Title: Re: what lpg systrm is best at the moment?
Post by: Y26SE on 06 September 2012, 21:10:57
I've got to keep the floor space of the estate so I'll go for lazydocker route and lift the floor a few inches and get a 76l tank in wheel well