Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: amba on 25 September 2012, 19:47:48

Title: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: amba on 25 September 2012, 19:47:48
Being the proud owner of a nearly perfect scuttle panle I am now after advise on how once and for all making the damn thing water tight and stopping it from giving my diss pack a power shower everytime it rains hard.

My plan is to remove the thin section of foam,... which doesn,t seal against the curved section of the firewall.. and claen back to base plastic.I then intend running a fat bead of silicone across the firewall and squashing the scuttle into it and allowing to seal.Bothe foam/rubber washers that fit onto the wiper motor spindles will also get a bead of silicone and then glue them to the underside of the scuttle holes..will tghen run another bead round the outer edge before fitting wiper arms back.

I assume the lower section of the windscreen black seal that the scuttle edge sits under secured by the 7 lugs is only a trim and has no effect on the sealing of the top edge of the scuttle ? or is it wise gently lifting the edge of this trim from the windscreen glass and then applying more sealant underneath.

Short of the above how do others get these damn things to seal properly :o
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 26 September 2012, 09:36:19
Never remove the scuttle.....
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: JimE on 26 September 2012, 09:40:11
Never remove the scuttle.....

Great idea! But sometimes you have to! Unplug the powersounder.... Change the HBV.... Lol
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: albitz on 26 September 2012, 09:53:02
Or to replace one which is absolutely knackered as in the OP,s case.
Im interested why the advice never to remove the scuttle ?  :-\
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: Jimbob on 26 September 2012, 10:00:04
The question was how to retain watertightness....

cue Mark's tongue in cheek answer of don't disturb it in the 1st place :y
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: albitz on 26 September 2012, 10:06:16
I understand now. :y................but in the OP,s case his scuttle was wrecked and leaking like a sieve,so he is replacing it with one in good condition.
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: amba on 26 September 2012, 10:08:47
If I didn,t need to I wouldn,t have done  >:(. Getting to the back coolant transfer pipe doing an exhaust manifold gasket is not an option with scuttle still in place IMHO. :-\

Anyway it was removed and now is leaking so would appreciate some advise. ;D

What effect...other than absorbing water.. ;D does the foam wadding on the underside of the scuttle panle serve as it seems more logical to remove it all getting rid of the problem of it just holding water.Then seal the curved section to the firewall with silicaone and also around the wiper holes.
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: albitz on 26 September 2012, 10:10:25
I would imagine that the purpose of the foam is to help keep engine noise out of the passenger compartment. ;)
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: amba on 26 September 2012, 10:13:47
Seems logical,Albs,but when they leak the foam acts like a big sponge and gradually drops water onto #3 and # 6 plug along with disspack.

Just like anu other experiences of getting these things to seal up properly as it is a very poor design.....way weather is at the moment imagine my disspack is submerged so looks like a job for Friday drying out/sealing and fitting new scuttle  ;D
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: albitz on 26 September 2012, 10:15:54
The amount of water that foam can hold must also seriously affect the power/weight ratio of the car too. ;D
The only thing I know which helps is sealant between the two sections of the scuttle. :y
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: amba on 26 September 2012, 10:28:04
Think they should really call it a "Camel "  ;D ;D ;D as it seems to hold more water than 1.

Will keep fingers crossed for dry day on Friday then seal it up..along with drying off the plug wells and dispack..great fun ah !! ;D
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 26 September 2012, 10:30:32
Cant say I remove the scuttle for anything, certainly not for HBV or manifold gasket or even head gasket change.  :y

Power sounder is probably the only exception although it can be done by removing the torx bolt and flexing the plastic to gain access.
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: Jimbob on 26 September 2012, 11:02:21
I did to do my wiper motor....  couldnt see how to without.
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: amba on 26 September 2012, 11:05:45
So for all use mere mortals that have removed their scuttle panles to gain access to some dark damp space at the back of the engine ;D

How has the scuttle panel sealed when refitted ? or has it just been good fortune that the foam across the curved section was in good nick 8)
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 26 September 2012, 20:43:19
I managed it once with a bit of luck and a shed load of silicone.....  ::)
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: robson on 26 September 2012, 21:12:17
I fitted an aluminium tray under part of mine to divert water from electric plugs. A nice large one might take water away from other vulnerable parts. I know it sounds daft but the whole design in this area is daft.
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: amba on 26 September 2012, 22:17:25
Well I have bought large tube of Clear Silicone sealant from local fishtank shop so atleast it will be water tight. 8)

Going to apply heft bead on the curved metal firewall and squash the scuttle into it and smooth out the overspill to form seal.Then seal around both sides of the wiper spindle foam/vinyl plugs and fingers crossed that will keep the elements out.

Before all of that though need to dry out each back plug well and h.t lead as they have had a bath over the last few days .Sunshine on friday should see it get  done, i hope  ;D
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: albitz on 26 September 2012, 22:21:22
Good luck with it Andrew. :y
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: amba on 26 September 2012, 22:24:59
Thanks Albs........In a previous life I fitted windows  ::) so dab hand with a silicone gun ;D ;D ;D

It will get the royal icing treatment  :D
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: mrgreen on 27 September 2012, 07:39:47
silicone has no place on a car!! it's for the house, IMO I would invest in some sikaflex which is designed for autos and yachts, silicon absorbs moisture in it's curing process which is a good trap for rust .
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: amba on 27 September 2012, 09:02:42
Fair comment,Mr.Green,although on a 14 year old car I am more concerned about it runnung properly without a miss fire due to water ingress. ;D

Accept your comment about silicone/sikaflex but the only section of metal it will be incontact with is the curved scetion of the firewall which tends to be in a fairly warm place under the bonnet so think by the time the "tin worm" has attacked that bad enough for me to be worried the Omega will be passed caring,and me for that mater. :o

Silicone is a lot more flexible and can be applied with a thicker bead so thats my plan...just need a dry day now  :y
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: duggs on 27 September 2012, 15:00:49
I flattened aluminium party plate or in my case, a section of "moisture resistant" suspended ceiling tile does the trick.

Plate sends the water else where, to run off away from plugs and dis pack, tile soaks in water then drys out under the heat of the engine.
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: amba on 27 September 2012, 23:09:15
Metal party plate sounds a novel idea and think that warrants further investigation as could be used to extend the curved firewall section easily by bending and moulding to shape .

If that is then stuck to the curved section it creates a bigger lip for the plastic scuttle to sit against and given that that is then in effect up hill the water could only drain away into the bottom of the pollen filter chamber with drain and not over the dispack and leads. :-X

Good idea duggs :y
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: mrgreen on 28 September 2012, 01:18:18
silicone has no place on a car!! it's for the house, IMO I would invest in some sikaflex which is designed for autos and yachts, silicon absorbs moisture in it's curing process which is a good trap for rust .

yes you are absolutely right I was being rather padantic there, I am in the middle of renovating a vintage caravan and the bodyshop where i have it parked always goes on about silicone on vehicles and i must say my caravan had it's fair share and it is a pita to remove!! I think that's where i picked my rant up from!!
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: robson on 28 September 2012, 10:10:09
My son tells me that there is a liquid silicone remover which works very well.
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: omega3000 on 28 September 2012, 18:10:11
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/milleblack/photo0070.jpg)

Is what i done a while back , diss pack nice and dry  :)

Shove it over the diss pack then bolt down and seal around bolt ...job done .
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: amba on 28 September 2012, 22:28:03
Thats quite an enterprising design and should really be given a place on all Omegas. :y

Interesting to see a picture of the modification in situ  ;D......are you planning on marketing this very usefull accessory then as expect there is a market for it  ;)

Thanks for sharing your design and mod...much appreciated :y
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: omega3000 on 28 September 2012, 22:37:23
Thats quite an enterprising design and should really be given a place on all Omegas. :y

Interesting to see a picture of the modification in situ  ;D......are you planning on marketing this very usefull accessory then as expect there is a market for it ;)

Thanks for sharing your design and mod...much appreciated :y

 ;D Nah its just something i knocked up out of some spare ally plate ... i sealed the scuttle a few times and have most likely stopped most leaks  ::) just added this not long after the water destroyed the diss/pack , dont want to be climbing onto the engine again to replace that .....in fact i wouldnt be able to do it now  ::) Ill try and find the in situ picture ...
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: omega3000 on 28 September 2012, 23:31:31
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/milleblack/photo0071.jpg)

Maybe not to some folks liking but it hasnt moved and has proved to deflect any droplets away keeping disspak dry  ;)
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: robson on 29 September 2012, 09:54:09
Looks just like my plate perhaps we should go into business
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: amba on 29 September 2012, 16:41:11
Get a much better idea when its fitted. :y

Good idea and may need to resort to something similar if my liberal sealing with black silicone doesn,t do the job...just cleaning it all up now and will leave car until the morning before using until all dried and hopefully cured
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: robson on 30 September 2012, 09:23:10
The plate is a second line of defence
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: amba on 30 September 2012, 09:34:39
Just had a quick look this morning and black silicone has gone off nicely. :y

Looks like the plastic scuttle is now sealed.(stuck ) to the curved section of the firewall so hopefully that will prove to be water tight.Have also sealed around the 2 foam/rubber washers that fit onto the wiper spindles and stuck them to the underside of the scuttle so hopefully that is fixed.

May see about fabricating some form of deflecter from sheet aswell just incase the " Levy doesn,t hold ". ;D

Thanks guys for advise and guidance :y
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: omega3000 on 30 September 2012, 13:06:45
Just had a quick look this morning and black silicone has gone off nicely. :y

Looks like the plastic scuttle is now sealed.(stuck ) to the curved section of the firewall so hopefully that will prove to be water tight.Have also sealed around the 2 foam/rubber washers that fit onto the wiper spindles and stuck them to the underside of the scuttle so hopefully that is fixed.

May see about fabricating some form of deflecter from sheet aswell just incase the " Levy doesn,t hold ". ;D

Thanks guys for advise and guidance :y

Thats what i thought  :(....one tube of sealant later i think its stopped most of it  ::) ::)  ;D :y
Title: Re: Windscreen Scuttle
Post by: amba on 30 September 2012, 13:15:40
Its had an entire small tube of black silicone smeared  ;D /carefully applied   :y to the curved edge and left to cure overnight and it seems to be ok.

Heavy rain forecast here for tomorrow so it will get a roadtest then I expect.

Metal sheet deflecter may be the next step if it still drips a bit although cant see how it would get in now  >:(...famous last words ;D