Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 29 September 2012, 12:22:01
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I know this isn't Omega related, but I wondered if anyone could shine a light on this.
The car has only covered 9,500 miles and is just four years old.
It failed on the emissions test.
Fast idle speed............FAIL
CO level.......O.20%.....PASS
HC level......20ppm.......PASS
Lambda......1.12..........FAIL........................Should be between O.97.....1.03.
Any idea what caused it to fail, chaps?
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Sticking o2 Lambda sensor? Can you get live data reader on it?
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Why hasn't the fast idle speed passed? surely they should be holding the fast idle between the assigned range :-\ ::)
Did you give it an Italian Tune up on the way there?
I'd be very surprised if it's a dodgy sensor... Could be a slight leak in the exhaust system :-\
But my biggest issue with those results is that the idle should have been held in the correct range
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Why hasn't the fast idle speed passed? surely they should be holding the fast idle between the assigned range :-\ ::)
Did you give it an Italian Tune up on the way there?
I'd be very surprised if it's a dodgy sensor... Could be a slight leak in the exhaust system :-\
But my biggest issue with those results is that the idle should have been held in the correct range
Thanks Tunnie and LD.
LD. according to the printout there is no speed range for the fast idle test. It simply says FAIL.
I tried my best to give it an "Italian tune up" ::) on the way......but the traffic was heavy. :'(
I don't think the exhaust is leaking. Nothing was mentioned by the tester.
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Why hasn't the fast idle speed passed? surely they should be holding the fast idle between the assigned range :-\ ::)
Did you give it an Italian Tune up on the way there?
I'd be very surprised if it's a dodgy sensor... Could be a slight leak in the exhaust system :-\
But my biggest issue with those results is that the idle should have been held in the correct range
Thanks Tunnie and LD.
LD. according to the printout there is no speed range for the fast idle test. It simply says FAIL.
I tried my best to give it an "Italian tune up" ::) on the way......but the traffic was heavy. :'(
I don't think the exhaust is leaking. Nothing was mentioned by the tester.
The fast idle speed for MOT emissions test is between 2500 and 3000rpm.
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How does the emissions test kit check the RPM? Because if it''s from an ignition lead (or even exhaust note) it might get confused by the fact it's a rotary. Maybe it was bypassed for that reason?
Does look to me like air getting into the exhaust (or tester probe!) to me. I would expect these to be harder on Lambda sensors due to the oil consumption, though. That might make the italian tune up more important. ;)
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How does the emissions test kit check the RPM? Because if it''s from an ignition lead (or even exhaust note) it might get confused by the fact it's a rotary. Maybe it was bypassed for that reason? .....
not sure how it works, but on one MOT, the tester clipped his box of electrickery across the battery of SWMBO's Smart - battery at front, engine at the the back, but as that means removing the bucket under the 'bonnet' on ther tests he hasn't. The test gear does need to know how many cylinders there are though, otherwise it gets confuddled
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Some info here Opti http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=8&h=&t=233122 (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=8&h=&t=233122)
Other searches point suggest to check plugs, apparently there are 2 per chamber on these? Apparently its not that noticeable for one to fail, but will drive as normal.
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How does the emissions test kit check the RPM? Because if it''s from an ignition lead (or even exhaust note) it might get confused by the fact it's a rotary. Maybe it was bypassed for that reason?
Does look to me like air getting into the exhaust (or tester probe!) to me. I would expect these to be harder on Lambda sensors due to the oil consumption, though. That might make the italian tune up more important. ;)
If bypassed it would say not checked on the printout, I think the best bet would be to read the live data first as has been suggested already.
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Why hasn't the fast idle speed passed? surely they should be holding the fast idle between the assigned range :-\ ::)
Did you give it an Italian Tune up on the way there?
I'd be very surprised if it's a dodgy sensor... Could be a slight leak in the exhaust system :-\
But my biggest issue with those results is that the idle should have been held in the correct range
Thanks Tunnie and LD.
LD. according to the printout there is no speed range for the fast idle test. It simply says FAIL.
I tried my best to give it an "Italian tune up" ::) on the way......but the traffic was heavy. :'(
I don't think the exhaust is leaking. Nothing was mentioned by the tester.
The fast idle speed for MOT emissions test is between 2500 and 3000rpm.
In full...... Fast idle test......FAIL
..............Engine speed not checked 2400 2600
..............CO level...O.20% PASS
..............HC level...20ppm PASS
.............LAMbda.....1.12 ...FAIL
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Some info here Opti http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=8&h=&t=233122 (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=8&h=&t=233122)
Other searches point suggest to check plugs, apparently there are 2 per chamber on these? Apparently its not that noticeable for one to fail, but will drive as normal.
Thanks, Mr Tunnie. That makes interesting reading. I'm hoping there is not a problem with the cat.
Yes.....two plugs per rotor. One leading .....one trailing. All four plugs cost around £200 from Mazda or about £70 from Ebay. They need renewing every 36,000 miles and are a piece of piss to change. Simply remove the passenger side front wheel to access them. :y
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Cat looks OK, because, even though the Lambda is out, it's still within the emissions limits. :y
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Given that the rest of the emissions are fine it looks like air is getting into the exhaust further back as already suggested, check the exhaust for any little black marks to suggest a very slight blow, it doesn't take a large hole for air to get in.
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I would say the fast idle failed because tester was too lazy to connect the sensor up. I've had that fail before and still get a pass ;-)
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Some info here Opti http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=8&h=&t=233122 (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=8&h=&t=233122)
Other searches point suggest to check plugs, apparently there are 2 per chamber on these? Apparently its not that noticeable for one to fail, but will drive as normal.
Thanks, Mr Tunnie. That makes interesting reading. I'm hoping there is not a problem with the cat.
Yes.....two plugs per rotor. One leading .....one trailing. All four plugs cost around £200 from Mazda or about £70 from Ebay. They need renewing every 36,000 miles and are a piece of piss to change. Simply remove the passenger side front wheel to access them. :y
Explains why these are cheap as chips on trader, that combined with oil use, garage costs must be huge. Good to DIY though :-\
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I would say the fast idle failed because tester was too lazy to connect the sensor up. I've had that fail before and still get a pass ;-)
All of the Vosa approved gas testers let you bypass the rpm pick up if the vehicle has its own tacho :y
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Some info here Opti http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=8&h=&t=233122 (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=8&h=&t=233122)
Other searches point suggest to check plugs, apparently there are 2 per chamber on these? Apparently its not that noticeable for one to fail, but will drive as normal.
Thanks, Mr Tunnie. That makes interesting reading. I'm hoping there is not a problem with the cat.
Yes.....two plugs per rotor. One leading .....one trailing. All four plugs cost around £200 from Mazda or about £70 from Ebay. They need renewing every 36,000 miles and are a piece of piss to change. Simply remove the passenger side front wheel to access them. :y
Explains why these are cheap as chips on trader, that combined with oil use, garage costs must be huge. Good to DIY though :-\
Oil consumption of 500ml per 1,000 miles. No worse than my Omega. Very easy to home service. :y.....and remember that cambelt changes are "dirt cheap" to do. ::) ::) ;)
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Thanks Kevin and Manual Elite V6. I'll check for exhaust leaks. :y
I'm glad you think that the cat is Okay. Is there a code reader that can confirm or eliminate problems in any specific parts. I'm thinking coils......cat.....lambda...etc...etc
P.S. Must work on my MV6, too. :y
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If I had a 4 year old car with only 9500 miles on it I would be banging on the dealers door to fix it. Few years back mum got a new ECU and cat for a 99 Astra. Now I know that was a known fault, but they could have been difficult about t, but they where as good as gold.
I would have thought Mazda would want to do the right thing on such a low mileage newish car. If they don't then they are not a patch on Vauxhall dealers IMHO. I have also had 2 cars (Astra and Vectra) repaired on corrosion warranty, one of them outside the 6 year warranty.
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If I had a 4 year old car with only 9500 miles on it I would be banging on the dealers door to fix it. Few years back mum got a new ECU and cat for a 99 Astra. Now I know that was a known fault, but they could have been difficult about t, but they where as good as gold.
I would have thought Mazda would want to do the right thing on such a low mileage newish car. If they don't then they are not a patch on Vauxhall dealers IMHO. I have also had 2 cars (Astra and Vectra) repaired on corrosion warranty, one of them outside the 6 year warranty.
If the cat or coils prove to be the problem, I shall certainly be asking Mazda to pay or at least contribute to the costs. :y
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Some info here Opti http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=8&h=&t=233122 (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=8&h=&t=233122)
Other searches point suggest to check plugs, apparently there are 2 per chamber on these? Apparently its not that noticeable for one to fail, but will drive as normal.
Thanks, Mr Tunnie. That makes interesting reading. I'm hoping there is not a problem with the cat.
Yes.....two plugs per rotor. One leading .....one trailing. All four plugs cost around £200 from Mazda or about £70 from Ebay. They need renewing every 36,000 miles and are a piece of piss to change. Simply remove the passenger side front wheel to access them. :y
Explains why these are cheap as chips on trader, that combined with oil use, garage costs must be huge. Good to DIY though :-\
Doesn't strike me as a particularly short service interval for plugs on a reasonably highly strung engine. You'd be mad to try for much more than that out of any engine, despite what the service schedule might say.
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Is it possible to get an emissions test completed without an MOT?........and if I can, is it worth the hassle as the MOT is only £35. :-\
It seems the only way I can check if the emissions are within guidelines is to pay pay for an MOT. This could prove expensive if the car keeps failing.......F***ing Jap crap. ;)
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Is it possible to get an emissions test completed without an MOT?........and if I can, is it worth the hassle as the MOT is only £35. :-\
It seems the only way I can check if the emissions are within guidelines is to pay pay for an MOT. This could prove expensive if the car keeps failing.......F***ing Jap crap. ;)
You should be able to get a free,or at least, cheap, re-test at the place who did the original MOT.
It'd be good to have a look at some live data first, of course, but if all else fails a good, long motorway run followed by an "italian tune-up" might wake up a lazy lambda sensor.
HC level is OK so I'd be surprised if it was a plug issue but might be worth sticking a new set in.
I'm wondering, as it's got a rather low mileage, if it's done mostly occasional short trips and that combined with a bit of oil in the exhaust has soiled the sensor, hence the italian tune-up.
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Hahaha i'd never heard of the 'italian tune up until yesterday' and now i've heard it several times ;D
on a serious note, can i clarify that when we refer to changing the ''plugs'' are we talking about the o2 (lambda) semsors?
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I think I'd be inclined to follow KW's advice. :y Throw a new set of plugs in, take it for a damn good run and Italian tune and chance my arm on the free retest! ;) Does Mrs Opti use it regularly and what sort use is it getting? ???
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Is it possible to get an emissions test completed without an MOT?........and if I can, is it worth the hassle as the MOT is only £35. :-\
It seems the only way I can check if the emissions are within guidelines is to pay pay for an MOT. This could prove expensive if the car keeps failing.......F***ing Jap crap. ;)
You should be able to get a free,or at least, cheap, re-test at the place who did the original MOT.
It'd be good to have a look at some live data first, of course, but if all else fails a good, long motorway run followed by an "italian tune-up" might wake up a lazy lambda sensor.
HC level is OK so I'd be surprised if it was a plug issue but might be worth sticking a new set in.
I'm wondering, as it's got a rather low mileage, if it's done mostly occasional short trips and that combined with a bit of oil in the exhaust has soiled the sensor, hence the italian tune-up.
I truly believe that the Mazda dealer who performed the MOT had no idea what an Rx8 is. So no retest there. :'(
I agree that the car has probably been used for short trips, Kevin. It has only done 1200 miles since the last MOT (1000 of those in the last two months)
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Is it possible to get an emissions test completed without an MOT?........and if I can, is it worth the hassle as the MOT is only £35. :-\
It seems the only way I can check if the emissions are within guidelines is to pay pay for an MOT. This could prove expensive if the car keeps failing.......F***ing Jap crap. ;)
You should be able to get a free,or at least, cheap, re-test at the place who did the original MOT.
It'd be good to have a look at some live data first, of course, but if all else fails a good, long motorway run followed by an "italian tune-up" might wake up a lazy lambda sensor.
HC level is OK so I'd be surprised if it was a plug issue but might be worth sticking a new set in.
I'm wondering, as it's got a rather low mileage, if it's done mostly occasional short trips and that combined with a bit of oil in the exhaust has soiled the sensor, hence the italian tune-up.
I truly believe that the Mazda dealer who performed the MOT had no idea what an Rx8 is. So no retest there. :'(
I agree that the car has probably been used for short trips, Kevin. It has only done 1200 miles since the last MOT (1000 of those in the last two months)
I'd look into that... I'm fairly sure that you are entitled to the free retest (if it only failed on emissions) by VOSA guidelines :-\
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I think I'd be inclined to follow KW's advice. :y Throw a new set of plugs in, take it for a damn good run and Italian tune and chance my arm on the free retest! ;) Does Mrs Opti use it regularly and what sort use is it getting? ???
TH. She prefers her 53 plate Corsa. I'll never understand women.......I only bought it for her because she wanted it. Crazy bint. :-\
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Is it possible to get an emissions test completed without an MOT?........and if I can, is it worth the hassle as the MOT is only £35. :-\
It seems the only way I can check if the emissions are within guidelines is to pay pay for an MOT. This could prove expensive if the car keeps failing.......F***ing Jap crap. ;)
You should be able to get a free,or at least, cheap, re-test at the place who did the original MOT.
It'd be good to have a look at some live data first, of course, but if all else fails a good, long motorway run followed by an "italian tune-up" might wake up a lazy lambda sensor.
HC level is OK so I'd be surprised if it was a plug issue but might be worth sticking a new set in.
I'm wondering, as it's got a rather low mileage, if it's done mostly occasional short trips and that combined with a bit of oil in the exhaust has soiled the sensor, hence the italian tune-up.
I truly believe that the Mazda dealer who performed the MOT had no idea what an Rx8 is. So no retest there. :'(
I agree that the car has probably been used for short trips, Kevin. It has only done 1200 miles since the last MOT (1000 of those in the last two months)
I'd look into that... I'm fairly sure that you are entitled to the free retest (if it only failed on emissions) by VOSA guidelines :-\
Yep, I think so, and they should be displayed in the premises too. :y
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Is it possible to get an emissions test completed without an MOT?........and if I can, is it worth the hassle as the MOT is only £35. :-\
It seems the only way I can check if the emissions are within guidelines is to pay pay for an MOT. This could prove expensive if the car keeps failing.......F***ing Jap crap. ;)
You should be able to get a free,or at least, cheap, re-test at the place who did the original MOT.
It'd be good to have a look at some live data first, of course, but if all else fails a good, long motorway run followed by an "italian tune-up" might wake up a lazy lambda sensor.
HC level is OK so I'd be surprised if it was a plug issue but might be worth sticking a new set in.
I'm wondering, as it's got a rather low mileage, if it's done mostly occasional short trips and that combined with a bit of oil in the exhaust has soiled the sensor, hence the italian tune-up.
I truly believe that the Mazda dealer who performed the MOT had no idea what an Rx8 is. So no retest there. :'(
I agree that the car has probably been used for short trips, Kevin. It has only done 1200 miles since the last MOT (1000 of those in the last two months)
I'd look into that... I'm fairly sure that you are entitled to the free retest (if it only failed on emissions) by VOSA guidelines :-\
Yep, I think so, and they should be displayed in the premises too. :y
Sorry, Kevin and LD. By the words "no retest there" I meant that the dealership was shite, :-\ and I wouldn't allow them to MOT my Trabant. ( should I ever own one) 8) 8) ;)
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Sorry, Kevin and LD. By the words "no retest there" I meant that the dealership was shite, :-\ and I wouldn't allow them to MOT my Trabant. ( should I ever own one) 8) 8) ;)
Might not be as daft an idea as it sounds, actually. Plenty of emissions, but exempt from the test, as it's 2 stroke. :y
In fact, I thought rotaries got a reduced test, but guessing the RX-8 is new enough to have car specific data on the system.
But.. If you don't want to go to that garage again, you need to stump up the MOT fee again. Could try offering a garage a bit of folding just to put it on the machine, but an MOT followed by a free retest might be more cost effective.
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on a serious note, can i clarify that when we refer to changing the ''plugs'' are we talking about the o2 (lambda) semsors?
No, they're referring to spark plugs. You need to see how a wankel engine in Mazda works to see why is needs two plugs per rotor.
NB A Smart 3 cylinder engine uses two plugs per cylinder :y :y
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NB A Smart 3 cylinder engine uses two plugs per cylinder :y :y
A lot of Merc V8s do as well, and something like £20 a plug from Merc ;D
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Hahaha i'd never heard of the 'italian tune up until yesterday' and now i've heard it several times ;D
on a serious note, can i clarify that when we refer to changing the ''plugs'' are we talking about the o2 (lambda) semsors?
We say plugs just because we cannot be bothered to type "Sparkplugs", so just shortened.
Lambda Sensors are well sensors, but often just call them o2 sensors :y
As you would have seen from cam cover problems, we often say, checked plugs for oil?
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Hahaha i'd never heard of the 'italian tune up until yesterday' and now i've heard it several times ;D
on a serious note, can i clarify that when we refer to changing the ''plugs'' are we talking about the o2 (lambda) semsors?
We say plugs just because we cannot be bothered to type "Sparkplugs", so just shortened.
Lambda Sensors are well sensors, but often just call them o2 sensors :y
As you would have seen from cam cover problems, we often say, checked plugs for oil?
Webby asked a valid question :y. Your reply, although, knowing you, I'm sure was full of correct intentions, came over a bit strong. IMHO anyway :-\. I'm sure thats not the case :)
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Eh? ???
Apologies if it did, meant nothing but help reply :y
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NB A Smart 3 cylinder engine uses two plugs per cylinder :y :y
A lot of Merc V8s do as well, and something like £20 a plug from Merc ;D
I'm not surprised at the cost! They'll also charge you about £10 a litre for synthetic oil 229.5 though & not 229.51 like Vauxhall's, though I've never really found out exactly what the difference is - 'low ash' I think :-\ :-\
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NB A Smart 3 cylinder engine uses two plugs per cylinder :y :y
A lot of Merc V8s do as well, and something like £20 a plug from Merc ;D
I'm not surprised at the cost! They'll also charge you about £10 a litre for synthetic oil 229.5 though & not 229.51 like Vauxhall's, though I've never really found out exactly what the difference is - 'low ash' I think :-\ :-\
GM synth is mental money, retail, as well.
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Eh? ???
Apologies if it did, meant nothing but help reply :y
:y
Its all too easy to misread posts, esp if you don't know/met the person in question :y
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Eh? ???
Apologies if it did, meant nothing but help reply :y
:y
Its all too easy to misread posts, esp if you don't know/met the person in question :y
And this is said by Mr Diplomacy himself! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D
Still ..... it's better than a one word reply! ::) ;D
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terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Edit, i see one particular word is in the filter, guess which one ::)
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Eh? ???
Apologies if it did, meant nothing but help reply :y
:y
Its all too easy to misread posts, esp if you don't know/met the person in question :y
And this is said by Mr Diplomacy himself! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D
Still ..... it's better than a one word reply! ::) ;D
Yup
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Eh? ???
Apologies if it did, meant nothing but help reply :y
:y
Its all too easy to misread posts, esp if you don't know/met the person in question :y
And this is said by Mr Diplomacy himself! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D
Still ..... it's better than a one word reply! ::) ;D
Yup
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D