Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: bobbertbear on 24 April 2008, 21:18:41

Title: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: bobbertbear on 24 April 2008, 21:18:41
the grill that i bought from an oof member still hasnt turned up so i started a dispute with paypal and it went in my favour,but due to him not having any funds in his paypal account,i never got my refund(surprise surprise)
and i also notice that he was usually on here every couple of days,but since this incident he hasnt been back on in a month,but then maybe he just is busy(yeah right)
thought i would just put an update on.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: mantahatch on 24 April 2008, 21:24:35
Sorry you have had a bad experience. I have bought off of two members on this forum, and I am in the process of buying off a third member.
To date all experiences have been very good.
I have never sold anything on here to anyone, but I have now sold a number of items on ebay and it can be particularly annoying when things go missing in the post.

I do hope it all comes good in the end.

Mike
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Debs. on 24 April 2008, 21:25:48
IMHO:
I think in view of the circumstances of the foregoing, it would not be considered unfair/unjust if this (specific) member were identified to protect forum members from suffering similar experiences with him, lest he return to regular use of the O.O.F.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: bobbertbear on 24 April 2008, 21:29:36
well we'll wait and see everyones response to your coment and then we just might do that
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Vamps on 24 April 2008, 21:31:41
Debs, I could do with your command of the english language next time I have to write a difficult report.

Problem with this situation is that, inho, it spoils the trust buit up between oofers, many who never meet but seem so close. :)
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: amigov6 on 24 April 2008, 21:32:28
Quote
IMHO:
I think in view of the circumstances of the foregoing, it would not be considered unfair/unjust if this (specific) member were identified to protect forum members from suffering similar experiences with him, lest he return to regular use of the O.O.F.
I was thinking that but maybe with a given time limit to allow for personal circumstances, could be a genuine reason.
   If not then name & shame. No time for wasters.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: bobbertbear on 24 April 2008, 21:35:00
well it was away back middle of march i paid for it,and tell me,does any members earn 75k in a year?
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: achoo81 on 24 April 2008, 21:35:21
I agree with Debs do something like ebay either feedback or name & shame, or if they won't play ball  and get nasty THROW EM OFF.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 24 April 2008, 21:41:07
I was just wondering if the Moderators were made aware of this individidual whether they could monitor his IP logging on to the server.  If he still is and not honouring a sale then sorry to say they need to be named

But maybe only after a certain time and an official warning from admin for abusing site/members trust.

We just need to keep in mind there may be a genuine reason, but if they are accessing the site on a regular basis, then a PM to the buyer explaing any difficuties certainly would not go a miss.

Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Albatross on 24 April 2008, 21:41:35
Quote
well it was away back middle of march i paid for it,and tell me,does any members earn 75k in a year?

I reckon you'd have to be a real Omega nut to have one and earn that sort of money.

Surely if you earn £75Kpa you're going to have a newer and flashier car than an Omega?
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: bobbertbear on 24 April 2008, 21:44:54
well thats what the individual in question reckons he earns,and when i mentioned to him about going to the police because technically it was theft,he got very defensive and abusive.not the actions of a person who has nothing to hide methinks.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: mantahatch on 24 April 2008, 21:51:42
Quote
well it was away back middle of march i paid for it,and tell me,does any members earn 75k in a year?


Hmmmm does not look good, if I earnt £75k I probably would not drive an Omega, but I have no idea what I would drive. I know it would not be a bmw.

Mike
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: hotel21 on 24 April 2008, 21:56:59
bobbert - please confirm to me by PM with whom you have the ongoing dispute (think I already know) and I will update the sticky in the parts/sales section.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: hotel21 on 24 April 2008, 22:03:15
likewise, if anyone has an ongoing or resolved dispute with a member, please advise me by PM for the same reason....
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: FRE07962128 on 24 April 2008, 22:05:10
Quote
Quote
IMHO:
I think in view of the circumstances of the foregoing, it would not be considered unfair/unjust if this (specific) member were identified to protect forum members from suffering similar experiences with him, lest he return to regular use of the O.O.F.
I was thinking that but maybe with a given time limit to allow for personal circumstances, could be a genuine reason.
   If not then name & shame. No time for wasters.

I agree with that; name & shame who ever it is, and perhaps ban them from the site >:( >:(  Why should he be allowed to continue to upset (being polite & legal) other oof members! >:(

Lizzie Zoom ;)
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: amba on 24 April 2008, 22:06:34
What the guy dreams he earns is not important to anybody other than himself..bottom line is ..a deal is a deal and if it has gone missing he should be prepared to offer what ever assistance to allow you to claim the money back,assuming it was sent recorded it would be covered anyway.
I have had a similar ongoing situation with a lost package,but between the member and myself we are persuing a claim from the Post Office..unfortunatley it is taking a fair time though
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: hotel21 on 24 April 2008, 22:07:21
Whilst I have a leaning towards banning folks who are not 'in good standing' as it were, if that were done then any avenue for their return to resolve is closed.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: TheBoy on 24 April 2008, 22:08:49
Quote
Whilst I have a leaning towards banning folks who are not 'in good standing' as it were, if that were done then any avenue for their return to resolve is closed.
H21, are you trying to say you want to ban me :o
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Vamps on 24 April 2008, 22:10:05
Quote
Quote
Quote
IMHO:
I think in view of the circumstances of the foregoing, it would not be considered unfair/unjust if this (specific) member were identified to protect forum members from suffering similar experiences with him, lest he return to regular use of the O.O.F.
I was thinking that but maybe with a given time limit to allow for personal circumstances, could be a genuine reason.
   If not then name & shame. No time for wasters.

I agree with that; name & shame who ever it is, and perhaps ban them from the site >:( >:(  Why should he be allowed to continue to upset (being polite & legal) other oof members! >:(

Lizzie Zoom ;)


 :o :o :o :o :o Have you seen some of the posts on here????????


Great init ;D ;D ;D :y
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: FRE07962128 on 24 April 2008, 22:10:27
Quote
Whilst I have a leaning towards banning folks who are not 'in good standing' as it were, if that were done then any avenue for their return to resolve is closed.

Not if you take legal action, and it seems he is known to be in a situation where he can be reached.  :-?:y
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Tony H on 24 April 2008, 22:10:49
Quote
Quote
well it was away back middle of march i paid for it,and tell me,does any members earn 75k in a year?

I reckon you'd have to be a real Omega nut to have one and earn that sort of money.

Surely if you earn £75Kpa you're going to have a newer and flashier car than an Omega?
I know someone who earns well in excess of 75k who drives around in a 13 year old VW a car to him is just a means of getting from A to B
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: hotel21 on 24 April 2008, 22:11:05
Quote
Quote
Whilst I have a leaning towards banning folks who are not 'in good standing' as it were, if that were done then any avenue for their return to resolve is closed.
H21, are you trying to say you want to ban me :o

If you are the seller, potentially, yes...

Thats the reason I say that to ban a member is extreme and, perhaps more importantly, a bad thing for reasons I've already given.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: hotel21 on 24 April 2008, 22:12:24
Quote
Quote
Whilst I have a leaning towards banning folks who are not 'in good standing' as it were, if that were done then any avenue for their return to resolve is closed.

Not if you take legal action, and it seems he is known to be in a situation where he can be reached.  :-?:y

Howso?  The members have absolutely no idea who you are, other than whats showing in your user profile.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Ken T on 24 April 2008, 22:14:11
If you have his address, write politely telling him it hasn't arrived, and you expect him to sort it out. If he doesn't respond within say a week, then write again telling him that if he hasn't delivered or refunded within a week you will take him to Small Claim's Court, which will add £20 to his bill. Doesn't matter if he tries to po-po it because of the money he earns, Small Claims Court aren't fussy who they prosecute.

Ken
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Debs. on 24 April 2008, 22:14:53
Quote
Whilst I have a leaning towards banning folks who are not 'in good standing' as it were, if that were done then any avenue for their return to resolve is closed.

Having just read the applicable-sticky in the sales and wanted section, I think it addresses the problem appropriately and fairly; with both the seller/buyer and status of the dispute shown, and combined with the >250 post prescription.  :y
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: hotel21 on 24 April 2008, 22:16:42
Sending cash to a paypal ID does not generate a user address viewable by the buyer, as I recall, but stand to be corrected.  If purchased on E-bay, different story....
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Andy B on 24 April 2008, 22:17:34
£75k?  ...... I wouldn't get out of bed for that kind of money.  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Ken T on 24 April 2008, 22:20:26
Quote
Sending cash to a paypal ID does not generate a user address viewable by the buyer, as I recall, but stand to be corrected.  If purchased on E-bay, different story....

Oops, sorry you are right. That is the one big problems with todays internet culture, people may or may not exist.

Ken
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: FRE07962128 on 24 April 2008, 22:25:02
Quote
Quote
Quote
Whilst I have a leaning towards banning folks who are not 'in good standing' as it were, if that were done then any avenue for their return to resolve is closed.

Not if you take legal action, and it seems he is known to be in a situation where he can be reached.  :-?:y

Howso?  The members have absolutely no idea who you are, other than whats showing in your user profile.

But I understood from bobbertbear postings he was in communication with the gentleman concerned, speaking to him and talking about police action. :-? :-? :-?
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Entwood on 24 April 2008, 22:28:30
Quote
Quote
Whilst I have a leaning towards banning folks who are not 'in good standing' as it were, if that were done then any avenue for their return to resolve is closed.

Having just read the applicable-sticky in the sales and wanted section, I think it addresses the problem appropriately and fairly; with both the seller/buyer and status of the dispute shown, and combined with the >250 post prescription.  :y


I agree .. excellent solution IMHO   :y :y
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: hotel21 on 24 April 2008, 22:31:31
Quote
** snipped loads out ***

But I understood from bobbertbear postings he was in communication with the gentleman concerned, speaking to him and talking about police action. :-? :-? :-?

That communication may simply be PM's via the forum, not registered letters to a home address....
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 24 April 2008, 22:40:32
Having just read the new sticky. I totally agree.

It's just a shame that the odd few spoil it for others to have question trust.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: TheBoy on 24 April 2008, 22:43:49
Quote
Having just read the new sticky. I totally agree.

It's just a shame that the odd few spoil it for others to have question trust.
:-[

I'm on that list  :-[
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Vamps on 24 April 2008, 22:45:55
Quote
Quote
Having just read the new sticky. I totally agree.

It's just a shame that the odd few spoil it for others to have question trust.
:-[

I'm on that list  :-[

You are only human :) apparently ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: FRE07962128 on 24 April 2008, 22:46:21
Quote
Quote
** snipped loads out ***

But I understood from bobbertbear postings he was in communication with the gentleman concerned, speaking to him and talking about police action. :-? :-? :-?

That communication may simply be PM's via the forum, not registered letters to a home address....

Right...I misunderstood that point.  Thanks! :y  It does make any follow-up action rather difficult then. :(
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Vamps on 24 April 2008, 22:48:39
My address is on my Avatar, it's only a little village, and I am on the map. Perhaps this is the way to avoid further problems, just my tuppence worth. :)
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: hotel21 on 24 April 2008, 22:50:23
Quote
My address is on my Avatar, it's only a little village, and I am on the map. Perhaps this is the way to avoid further problems, just my tuppence worth. :)

Great if you stay in a small place and everyone knows everyone else....

Mine? - its on the local Police HQ!   ;D
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: CaptainZok on 24 April 2008, 22:50:42
Quote
My address is on my Avatar, it's only a little village, and I am on the map. Perhaps this is the way to avoid further problems, just my tuppence worth. :)
Providing all give their true location of course and in a city one can be much more anonymous lol.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: bobbertbear on 24 April 2008, 22:52:21
i havent got an address for him so cant comunicate by letter,it was all done thru txts and email,and when he told me to fone him he never answered his fone and made excuses about being in "a meeting"
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Vamps on 24 April 2008, 22:52:50
Quote
Quote
My address is on my Avatar, it's only a little village, and I am on the map. Perhaps this is the way to avoid further problems, just my tuppence worth. :)

Great if you stay in a small place and everyone knows everyone else....

Mine? - its on the local Police HQ!   ;D

One to avoid then......... ;D ;D ;D :y
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Jay w on 24 April 2008, 22:53:47
it's a shame we have to get to this level, but i fully agree with what has been done.

The internet has made the world/this country a smaller place, at sometime we have all fallen foul of people who had less than good intentions, the internet allows us anonymity which in turn seems to have made matter worse in some respects.

I really hope that all of those that are outstanding can be resolved to a mutually acceptable level  :y
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: rad cap on 24 April 2008, 22:54:55
i agree with andy b , £75k penuts we dont get out of bed north of watford for that,  we get paid in black puddins ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: bobbertbear on 24 April 2008, 22:56:02
i have no comunication with him now as i wasnt getting anywhere with him.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: rad cap on 24 April 2008, 23:00:36
how mutch did you pay for grill if you dont mind me asking.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: hotel21 on 24 April 2008, 23:07:17
Quote
Quote
Having just read the new sticky. I totally agree.

It's just a shame that the odd few spoil it for others to have question trust.
:-[

I'm on that list  :-[

your a buyer....

Paid by Paypal so verifiable that you parted with cash?  Sounds like a no fault claim, if using Ins Assessor speak....   ;)
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Entwood on 24 April 2008, 23:17:02
Unfortunately, doesn't the legal term "Caveat Emptor" have a great deal of influence here.... purchasing from an "unknown" source ??

At least with fleabay there is a "recognised" buyer/seller contract ... agreeing to buy from a forum ??? I'm not sure :(

I have purchased from folks on here BTW ... but ALWAYS done "cash on pick-up" ... that way I check the goods first ... :)

Just my Victor Meldrew head on methinks .. :(
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: VXL V6 on 24 April 2008, 23:37:52
While it's not very pleasant to name people who mess people about, I do think it's neccesary when a resolution is not forthcoming simply because the said person could be happily scamming everyone else as they are unaware of all the previous bad dealings.

Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: hotel21 on 24 April 2008, 23:44:10
To clarify a little, there has been a degree of Admin/Mod intervention when requested by one side in a dispute or another so that a resolution, suitable to both sides, could be acheived.  It is only when such 'resolution' fails that we are now where we are....
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: VXL V6 on 24 April 2008, 23:48:41
Yeh, I know that the Mods have tried to help out wherever they can  :y. Such a shame that a couple of people spoil it for the many.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: shanjon on 25 April 2008, 00:47:10
Quote
the grill that i bought from an oof member still hasnt turned up so i started a dispute with paypal and it went in my favour,but due to him not having any funds in his paypal account,i never got my refund(surprise surprise)

i had this before with paypal and got no refund due to the other party not having funds however nearly two months later i received the money back from paypal, you never know you may get lucky
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Gaffers on 25 April 2008, 06:58:37
Quote
Quote
well it was away back middle of march i paid for it,and tell me,does any members earn 75k in a year?

I reckon you'd have to be a real Omega nut to have one and earn that sort of money.

Surely if you earn £75Kpa you're going to have a newer and flashier car than an Omega?

Yeah but I would still have a VERY nice meega ;)
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 25 April 2008, 07:42:09
Quote
Quote
Having just read the new sticky. I totally agree.

It's just a shame that the odd few spoil it for others to have question trust.
:-[I'm on that list  :-[


Yeah, as a good guy.

As hotel21 said

"your a buyer....

Paid by Paypal so verifiable that you parted with cash?  Sounds like a no fault claim, if using Ins Assessor speak....    "





Now that the details are there regarding the seller of "the missing grill" thread  do I take it the info given on the sale of his car is false.

His location and mobile number.


Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 25 April 2008, 07:53:44
Quote
Quote
Quote
well it was away back middle of march i paid for it,and tell me,does any members earn 75k in a year?

I reckon you'd have to be a real Omega nut to have one and earn that sort of money.

Surely if you earn £75Kpa you're going to have a newer and flashier car than an Omega?

Yeah but I would still have a VERY nice meega ;)
 or 7


Monday I would be using the Omega MV6
Tuesday I would use the Irmscher Elite
Wednesday I the Steinmetz Elite.
Thursdays I would nip down to Santa to test the Omega V8 Project
Friday would be shopping day in the Elite estate.
Saturday would be dumpit site day after doing the garden in the GLS estate runabout.

Sunday would be a lie in and then out for lunch in the Monaro
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 25 April 2008, 08:37:46
Quote
While it's not very pleasant to name people who mess people about, I do think it's neccesary when a resolution is not forthcoming simply because the said person could be happily scamming everyone else as they are unaware of all the previous bad dealings.


Just done a search on Google for the person in question and seems he may have a facebook accounts.

Would be a shame for all his friends to find out he might be a scammer
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: shyboy on 25 April 2008, 09:01:33
Any action to name and shame publicly should be left entirely to the Admins. Remember the recent fate of another Forum where adverse info. was posted publicly about an offending garage.
It's a very delicate area, in which yet again everything seems to favour the offender rather than the victim.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: VXL V6 on 25 April 2008, 09:05:02
Quote
Any action to name and shame publicly should be left entirely to the Admins. Remember the recent fate of another Forum where adverse info. was posted publicly about an offending garage.
It's a very delicate area, in which yet again everything seems to favour the offender rather than the victim.

Yep, agree with that.  :y
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: bruce on 25 April 2008, 09:28:59
Quote
Quote
Any action to name and shame publicly should be left entirely to the Admins. Remember the recent fate of another Forum where adverse info. was posted publicly about an offending garage.
It's a very delicate area, in which yet again everything seems to favour the offender rather than the victim.

Yep, agree with that.  :y

I belong to a Corfu holiday website where a Travel Agency was slagged off and the owner of the holiday website was fined €90.000 in the Greek Courts.

 
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Olympia5776 on 25 April 2008, 17:17:12
Quote
the grill that i bought from an oof member still hasnt turned up so i started a dispute with paypal and it went in my favour,but due to him not having any funds in his paypal account,i never got my refund(surprise surprise)
and i also notice that he was usually on here every couple of days,but since this incident he hasnt been back on in a month,but then maybe he just is busy(yeah right)
thought i would just put an update on.
If it was me and I had had no response or interest shown by a seller in resolving an issue I would start a thread asking him publicly if he had given any thought to the situation and whether he would refund the sum paid.That way there is no name and shame but the persons identity would be known to all and he would get no more business from the members of this site.
I realise the delicate situation we are in here but this guy is probably pissin himself laughing watching us pussyfooting around debating this theft.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: waspy on 25 April 2008, 17:48:10
bobbertbear. Do you know his full name & a rough location by any chance? If you do, PM me I may be able to help with an address.
**** edited to remove potentially damaging comments **** ;D
I'll keep info strictly between your self & i  :y
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: bobbertbear on 25 April 2008, 18:30:50
i have no name apart from his first name which is simon,or so he says anyway,and it was dorset he stays.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: waspy on 25 April 2008, 18:33:09
Quote
i have no name apart from his first name which is simon,or so he says anyway,and it was dorset he stays.

Ok bod. It was a nice try anyway  :(
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: Jay w on 25 April 2008, 18:35:29
I'm going to sound like a real killjoy here.....

I do not believe that there should be any indication of who it was or home area, even if they are 'possibilities'

Whilst i sympathise with Bobbet it opens up too many avenues of repercussion, and it wouldn't take long for that to come back to the forum.


Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: hotel21 on 25 April 2008, 18:41:49
Quote
bobbertbear. Do you know his full name & a rough location by any chance? If you do, PM me I may be able to help with an address.
**** edited to remove potentially damaging comments **** :y


Whilst I agree this is an emotive issue, a public forum is not the place to potentially be teeing yourself or anyone else up for a prosecution as regards a breach of the Data Protection Act.

Quote and original post modified to remove that possibility and potential damage to OOF as a whole.

Furthermore, not meaning yourself Wasp, if anyone must mention use of baseball bats etc then please do so in PM's between individuals for exactly the same reason.

thanks.....  :y



Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: waspy on 25 April 2008, 18:42:16
Quote
I'm going to sound like a real killjoy here.....

I do not believe that there should be any indication of who it was or home area, even if they are 'possibilities'

Whilst i sympathise with Bobbet it opens up too many avenues of repercussion, and it wouldn't take long for that to come back to the forum.




If you read my previous post you will note that all info would have been between bobbertbear & my self  :y & most certainly NOT for public view
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: hotel21 on 25 April 2008, 18:43:34
Quote
Quote
I'm going to sound like a real killjoy here.....

I do not believe that there should be any indication of who it was or home area, even if they are 'possibilities'

Whilst i sympathise with Bobbet it opens up too many avenues of repercussion, and it wouldn't take long for that to come back to the forum.




If you read my previous post you will note that all info would have been between bobbertbear & my self  :y & most certainly NOT for public view

You still potentially incited or indicated an alternate possibility.

If you want to discuss by PM, please do so outwith public forum.

Like it or lump it, your post has been modified.....
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: robbo299 on 25 April 2008, 18:45:00
Agree with Jay W on this. Ive read about the "other" forum and the repercusions involved. Would not like one little bit for anything like that to happen to this forum. Only been a member a few months and the wealth of knowledge and sense of belonging is amazing here.
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: waspy on 25 April 2008, 18:45:09
Quote
Quote
bobbertbear. Do you know his full name & a rough location by any chance? If you do, PM me I may be able to help with an address.
**** edited to remove potentially damaging comments **** :y


Whilst I agree this is an emotive issue, a public forum is not the place to potentially be teeing yourself or anyone else up for a prosecution as regards a breach of the Data Protection Act.

Quote and original post modified to remove that possibility and potential damage to OOF as a whole.

Furthermore, not meaning yourself Wasp, if anyone must mention use of baseball bats etc then please do so in PM's between individuals for exactly the same reason.

thanks.....  




See what you're saying H21, no worries  :y
Title: Re: grill that didnt arrive
Post by: bobbertbear on 26 April 2008, 09:04:02
just to update now,i bought another grill off ebay and it arrived this morning,the guy posted it yesterday,so i'll get its face back together now and post pics of ma family of meegs ;)