Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: SMD on 30 November 2012, 18:03:08

Title: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 30 November 2012, 18:03:08
Received my sump yesterday from andyc but there wasn't a gasket (only silicone) which I'm sure is correct but can someone confirm? andyc was not available today for comment  ;D

The tube of silicone is half the size of your reglular bathroom sealant so wondering if I need to use it all? How long should I leave the silicone to cure before filling with oil? Will the excess silicone on the inside of the pan cause a problem when mixed with oil? How much should I torque the sump bolts?

Thanks
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: v6man54deg              Geffd on 30 November 2012, 18:26:31
I worked for the V6 plant on warranty and durability for 13 years, yes later sump supports / pans didn't have a gasket we used silicone sealant - but you need to use the correct one inorder for it to seal correctly - we used loctite 5900 - this is expensive (£30 a tube) but is the dogs 'dangle berries' of sealers - it goes off in a few minutes so by the time you have got the sump back on you can fill it with oil no problem. the torque is 20 NM for the sump support and 8NM for the sump pan yes it does splay out but no problem - just dont forget to seal around the bolt holes.

Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: kevinp58 on 30 November 2012, 18:35:59
That would be the proper stuff to seal it then if Andy supplied it and NO you don't use it all unless you want to bung all the oil ways up and starve the engine of oil all you need to do is run a small bead all round the sump, be carefull not to smear it all over the place when you offer the sump up.
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: v6man54deg              Geffd on 30 November 2012, 18:41:00
they do sell in on the net you can get smaller tubes with a plunger like a large shringe - the same sealer was used on the cam covers after years of them trying various sealers, vauxhall (dealers) started using the grey GM sealer as used on the vent housing and heat ex changer cover - although this is cheaper it tends to go hard and not as elastic.
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 30 November 2012, 18:41:43
Thanks for the reply. Didn't think to seal around bolt holes  :y the silicone I have is the grey type, the one used for the oil cooler. How late is 'later'. My car is 2001
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: v6man54deg              Geffd on 30 November 2012, 18:43:53
thats a later one as we started building them in 1993 and the plant closed in 2004 - the grey can be used but it goes too hard i would i always use the correct factory loctite 5900 as its not a job you want to do every year
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 30 November 2012, 18:46:48
Shall I put a bead of gunk on both surfaces or would that be excessive. Can you clarify sump supports, would that be the M6 bolts and the sump pan the drain bolt?
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: kevinp58 on 30 November 2012, 18:48:21
The later ones are the facelift ones the easiest way to tell is they have the front grill on the bonnet, and not separate.
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: kevinp58 on 30 November 2012, 18:49:09
No just the sump will be enough
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: v6man54deg              Geffd on 30 November 2012, 18:51:05
the support is the aluminium part - the pan is the sheet metal part with the drain plug  - pust seal on the part you are fitting but use a good cleaner / de greaser on both parts before applying any sealer
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 30 November 2012, 19:37:14
Thanks fellas, I think all my questions answered.   :y

FWIW, the new pan looks like its one piece of steel with no ally insert. So should avoid this happening again.
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: albitz on 30 November 2012, 19:40:11
Alloy insert is attached to the engine.It sits between the bottom of the block and the top of the sump. ;)
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 30 November 2012, 19:46:25
I'm confused now. I thought the reason for my sump bolt spinning was because the alloy insert (where the bolt goes in) that is spot welded to the sump pan has cracked, hence not coming out.

Is this what you're on about?
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: Andy B on 30 November 2012, 19:50:34
I'm confused now. I thought the reason for my sump bolt spinning was because the alloy insert (where the bolt goes in) that is spot welded to the sump pan has cracked, hence not coming out.

Is this what you're on about?

Different bits of ally  ;) ;) ;)

The lower steel sump that you've got a stripped sump plug in is bolted to a large ally upper sump which in turns bolts to the main cast block.  :y :y :y

The lower steel sump can be changed inside an hour or so ......... you'll need to book a week off work for the other bit.  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: albitz on 30 November 2012, 19:51:51
Sorry,I misunderstood. :y
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: Andy H on 30 November 2012, 20:05:30
Received my sump yesterday from andyc but there wasn't a gasket (only silicone) which I'm sure is correct but can someone confirm? andyc was not available today for comment  ;D

The tube of silicone is half the size of your reglular bathroom sealant so wondering if I need to use it all? How long should I leave the silicone to cure before filling with oil? Will the excess silicone on the inside of the pan cause a problem when mixed with oil? How much should I torque the sump bolts?

Thanks
I dropped the oil pan on mine a few months ago to check/clean the oil strainer. I used sealant ordered from AndyC and it has been perfectly OK.

I left it overnight before filling with oil, I don't know if I could have filled it sooner :-\
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 30 November 2012, 20:20:08
Different bits of ally  ;) ;) ;)

The lower steel sump that you've got a stripped sump plug in is bolted to a large ally upper sump which in turns bolts to the main cast block.  :y :y :y

The lower steel sump can be changed inside an hour or so ......... you'll need to book a week off work for the other bit.  ;) ;)

Dont intend on doing that bit  :o
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: v6man54deg              Geffd on 30 November 2012, 21:08:14
(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l363/geffd/039.jpg)

The real McCoy Loctite 5900 (as used in the factory) :y
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 30 November 2012, 22:25:34
That's very helpful  :y but at £20 + p&p from eBay. Suppose not that much more that grey sealant @ £9+vat for half a tube. Got any pics of the sensor and strainer?
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: andyc on 01 December 2012, 09:46:21
The grey sealant is the correct sealant as stated on EPC. As dealers we will have no access to the sealant used in the engine plant.

Use the grey and as long as the mating sr=urfaces are clean and dry it won't leak

Andy

Half day off yesterday

Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: razzo on 01 December 2012, 11:05:00
any reason this loctite 5900 should not be used on the transmission sumps?
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 01 December 2012, 13:20:24
Got the sump off and I think I can see the strainer (is it the dome shaped bit) but how do I get it out?
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: Andy B on 01 December 2012, 13:34:30
Can't think exactly, but the domed mesh is normally crimped/swaged onto the end of the oil pick up pipe. Look towards the other end for a bolt or two.  :-\
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 01 December 2012, 13:42:46
.

That really isn't helpful at this stage. It's getting dark over here  ;D
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: Andy B on 01 December 2012, 13:44:31
.

That really isn't helpful at this stage. It's getting dark over here  ;D

I was mid edit &  was thinking .........  ::)  ::)  ::)
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 01 December 2012, 14:00:33
I can see it being held by three bolts. Can anyone confirm
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 01 December 2012, 17:55:31
I did it minus the bastard oil filter which I have to try and do tomorrow. It has been converted to spin on type but still refusing to shift. Didn't do the strainer which was an opportunity missed  :-[
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: Andy B on 01 December 2012, 18:29:50
I did it minus the bastard oil filter which I have to try and do tomorrow. It has been converted to spin on type but still refusing to shift.
Stick a screwdriver through it  ::) ::)


Didn't do the strainer which was an opportunity missed  :-[
You didn't try the 3 bolts then?  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 01 December 2012, 20:07:01
There were 4 bolts, but no I didnt because I bottled it. I was hanging around for someone to confirm it, cost me an hour. The halfords 150 set could do with some adapters. I was using the 1/4" socket to remove all 22 bolts and even when using the extension it felt a bit short to reach the 4 bolts to the strainer.

It didnt look too bad TBH, it was nice and golden inside.

(http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t440/Zaf_Yousef/IMAG0518.jpg)

I think I waited 45m-1h before filling with oil because it was getting dark and half my car was parked on double yellows. Hopefully wouldnt be a problem.
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: Andy B on 01 December 2012, 20:12:42
....

It didnt look too bad TBH, it was nice and golden inside.  .....Hopefully wouldnt be a problem.

Agreed, it looks clean, you can see through the gauze.  :y :y
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 01 December 2012, 20:18:50
I did it minus the bastard oil filter which I have to try and do tomorrow. It has been converted to spin on type but still refusing to shift.
Stick a screwdriver through it  ::) ::)


I'll try that tomorrow but there isn't much room to get a good swing.
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: Andy B on 01 December 2012, 20:58:52
I did it minus the bastard oil filter which I have to try and do tomorrow. It has been converted to spin on type but still refusing to shift.
Stick a screwdriver through it  ::) ::)


I'll try that tomorrow but there isn't much room to get a good swing.

there are alternatives to a screw driver though  ::) eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=strap+oil+remover&_sacat=0&_from=R40)
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 01 December 2012, 21:18:45
I have the chain type wrench. It's shit
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: 05omegav6 on 01 December 2012, 21:25:57
Is that black square in the corner of the casting the oil level sensor? And where does the wire that's hanging from from it go?
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 01 December 2012, 21:33:38
Is that black square in the corner of the casting the oil level sensor? And where does the wire that's hanging from from it go?

Sure is.  Two bolts hold it to the base of the pan
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: Andy H on 01 December 2012, 21:37:40
I have one of these which works perfectly well.

http://www.drapertools.com/b2c/b2citmdsp.pgm?pp_skmno=37871&ipadd= (http://www.drapertools.com/b2c/b2citmdsp.pgm?pp_skmno=37871&ipadd=)

(http://www.drapertools.com/products/Standard/37871_OFW3.jpg)
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: 05omegav6 on 01 December 2012, 21:44:35
Is that black square in the corner of the casting the oil level sensor? And where does the wire that's hanging from from it go?

Sure is.  Two bolts hold it to the base of the pan
:y
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: Andy B on 01 December 2012, 21:48:49
I have the chain type wrench. It's shit

The chain wrench I originally made for my Senator's filter, works just great!  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 01 December 2012, 21:56:32
I have one of these which works perfectly well.

http://www.drapertools.com/b2c/b2citmdsp.pgm?pp_skmno=37871&ipadd= (http://www.drapertools.com/b2c/b2citmdsp.pgm?pp_skmno=37871&ipadd=)

(http://www.drapertools.com/products/Standard/37871_OFW3.jpg)

Looks like a good bit of kit but quite expensive though. This is similar but half the price:   :-\
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cht241-2-way-oil-filter-wrench

This is what I have andy, cant get the thing to grip  http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cht265-hand-driven-oil-filter-wrench
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: Nick W on 01 December 2012, 22:04:48
Got an old leather belt and some coarse sandpaper?
Wrap the paper around the filter, loop the belt around it, and with some fiddling around the filter will undo.
Title: Re: Oil sump gasket
Post by: SMD on 02 December 2012, 16:01:57
I bought the machine Mart claw type filter tool, was a bit fiddly but did the trick. Crap location to put it but didn't get any oil down my arm so all good. DIY mechanic'ism' isn't for me.  ::)