Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 26 December 2012, 21:52:32
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-20844027 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-20844027)
I find it disgusting that Easyjet should not carry on flying into an airport (Funchal) that had closed due to bad weather. I think they should have carried on and told the Air Traffic Controllers to open Funchal and let them try and land. OK, it could have meant a smouldering wreck with many dead, but at least they would have tried to help Katie Curtis, from Plymouth, who was visiting her mother in Madeira. It is tragic that, in her words, "We had to come back and spend Christmas in the hotel....The children were really disappointed, they're only nine and 10 years old. They were very upset on the way home on the plane".
Frankly, the BBC are right to bring this capitalist Easyjet outfit to book.
We need to rid ourselves of these greedy airlines who are only interested in profit and prefer to put their pax in a Bristol hotel rather than in a Madeiran mortuary.
Rant over. >:(
[sarc/off]
;)
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I'd have to disagree. It's the airports choice to shut, no airline should be able to override their call.
Because if it had skidded off runway, who would easyjet blame? Not themselves that's for sure!
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i think you might want to read nickbats post again tunnie :y
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Ooops you maybe right. Perhaps too much Port drunk here ::) ::) ;D :-[
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I thought Nick had been on the sauce at first! ;D On second thoughts he probably has!!! :)
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not really easy jets fault, the stupid bint shouldn't have left it so close to crimbo to fly.
you can't control the weather, if the airports shut there's nout no one can do :y
god I'm a baa humbug :y
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I think it was good of EJ to arrange Christmas at a hotel... It wasn't their fault ;)
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Why not ditch the passengers on the Canaries and short-haul them in to Madeira when the weather settled? Would have been much cheaper, no-doubt?
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;)
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Why not ditch the passengers on the Canaries and short-haul them in to Madeira when the weather settled? Would have been much cheaper, no-doubt?
Probably not... Landing fees at Bristol are probably considerably less than in the Canaries ;) And that's without going into the technicalities of changes to flight plans, ending up with aircraft and crews in the wrong place, etc ;)
Plus, and this is just an example, but what if there were passengers on board who weren't entitled to visit the Canaries without a Visa, they wouldn't be able to get through customs ;)
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Having been subject to Sleazyjet's attempts at clearing up after a cancelled flight myself I think they were lucky to have anything better than an airport seat to sleep in. However, if the airport was indeed closed, then the delay wasn't easyjet's fault.
I doubt they will get away anywhere for Christmas now, as Easyjet will simply try to fill empty seats on other flights rather than reschedule the cancelled flight, and as it's a busy time of year - tough. One airline I personally will never use again.
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Why not ditch the passengers on the Canaries and short-haul them in to Madeira when the weather settled? Would have been much cheaper, no-doubt?
Probably not... Landing fees at Bristol are probably considerably less than in the Canaries ;) And that's without going into the technicalities of changes to flight plans, ending up with aircraft and crews in the wrong place, etc ;)
Plus, and this is just an example, but what if there were passengers on board who weren't entitled to visit the Canaries without a Visa, they wouldn't be able to get through customs ;)
Flight Plans and Crew allocations would have been changed anyway - Afterall, this plane had already taken off and was in the air for 2 hours, so a little over half way there.
As for Visa's........ Portugal (Madeira) and Spain (Canaries) are both part of the EU, so if you are 'allowed' in one, you are allowed in t'other. ;)
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Having been subject to Sleazyjet's attempts at clearing up after a cancelled flight myself I think they were lucky to have anything better than an airport seat to sleep in. However, if the airport was indeed closed, then the delay wasn't easyjet's fault.
I doubt they will get away anywhere for Christmas now, as Easyjet will simply try to fill empty seats on other flights rather than reschedule the cancelled flight, and as it's a busy time of year - tough. One airline I personally will never use again.
I fly with them a couple of times a month (Business - yes, cheap buggers) and apart from the usual problems of delays (which is normally down to the ground crews (so airport at fault)) I can't complain too much about EasyJet.
Too many flights from cheap airports is their problem.
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Having been subject to Sleazyjet's attempts at clearing up after a cancelled flight myself I think they were lucky to have anything better than an airport seat to sleep in. However, if the airport was indeed closed, then the delay wasn't easyjet's fault.
I doubt they will get away anywhere for Christmas now, as Easyjet will simply try to fill empty seats on other flights rather than reschedule the cancelled flight, and as it's a busy time of year - tough. One airline I personally will never use again.
I fly with them a couple of times a month (Business - yes, cheap buggers) and apart from the usual problems of delays (which is normally down to the ground crews (so airport at fault)) I can't complain too much about EasyJet.
Too many flights from cheap airports is their problem.
In my case they flew a crew out knowing they didn't have sufficient hours to get back due to previous delays that day, then waited until their customer service desks had closed before announcing there was no flight back. There is simply not enough slack in their system to give a reasonable success rate.
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Flight Plans and Crew allocations would have been changed anyway - Afterall, this plane had already taken off and was in the air for 2 hours, so a little over half way there.
As for Visa's........ Portugal (Madeira) and Spain (Canaries) are both part of the EU, so if you are 'allowed' in one, you are allowed in t'other. ;)
Yep, but by diverting to the Canaries the aircraft (and crew) would be in the wrong place (or flying back empty), which would cost considerably more than a Holiday Inn that they probably only paid £25 per room (maximum) ;)
Visa's... Not true. If, for example, there is a South African on board they can travel to some EU countries but cannot enter France without a full Visa ;)
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I agree with Nickbat, they should have killed aaaaall their passengers attempting to land in bad weather. There'd be no crying then, aye! Job done, NEXT! ;D
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Couple of points...
1. The Canaries are part of Spain, but not in the EU.
2. Ryanair would have diverted to the Azores and charged everyone for the privilege.
Looking at the forecast for the weekend, they might not be flying back either ::)
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I feel so sorry for all those poor passengers stuck in Maderia who were due to fly out on that non-landing EasyJet plane. ::) ::)
Stuck for Christmas on Maderia in their hotels! Poor souls! ::) ::) ::) ::) :y :y :y :y :y :y :y ;)
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Err As a part of the Kingdom of Spain, the Canaries are also part of the European Union.
Like many parts of Spain they would like to be independent however following the constitution change in , I believe, 1978 they are all very much part of Spain being run from Madrid like the other regions such as Andalusia and Catalunia. The Canarian fiscal and economic system is different from the general Spanish one but like the rest of Spain they use the Euro.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-20844027 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-20844027)
I find it disgusting that Easyjet should not carry on flying into an airport (Funchal) that had closed due to bad weather. I think they should have carried on and told the Air Traffic Controllers to open Funchal and let them try and land. OK, it could have meant a smouldering wreck with many dead, but at least they would have tried to help Katie Curtis, from Plymouth, who was visiting her mother in Madeira. It is tragic that, in her words, "We had to come back and spend Christmas in the hotel....The children were really disappointed, they're only nine and 10 years old. They were very upset on the way home on the plane".
Frankly, the BBC are right to bring this capitalist Easyjet outfit to book.
We need to rid ourselves of these greedy airlines who are only interested in profit and prefer to put their pax in a Bristol hotel rather than in a Madeiran mortuary.
Rant over. >:(
[sarc/off]
;)
Stelios is a clever man Nick.. trying to bring Turkski and Greekski together ;D
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Why is there a limit on fags and booze when coming back from the Canaries then :-\
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Couple of points...
1. The Canaries are part of Spain, but not in the EU.
2. Ryanair would have diverted to the Azores and charged everyone for the privilege.
Looking at the forecast for the weekend, they might not be flying back either ::)
Just LOL
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Ok they are in the EU but outside the EU vat zone however that works :-\ bit like the Channel Islands then I guess :-\
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Hi all, my name is Katie Curtis and I appeared on the BBC complaining about our flights being cancelled on christmas eve to madeira.
Can I just let everyone know some more facts:-
We were 2 hours into our flight when we were told the flight had been cancelled due to the weather in madeira and would return to Bristol. At 1120am we landed back in bristol and I text my mum who was in Madeira - AT THE AIRPORT WATCHING PLANES LAND. The airport had only been closed from 950am - 1040 am, my mum confirmed this for us. The same type of planes were landing - airbus A320's with Thomson and TAP air so this was not an excuse. 2 planes were diverted to Porto Santo and the rest of the planes that day landed with minimal delay - ALL EASYJET FLIGHTS WERE CANCELLED, even the later one from Gatwick. My mum contacted Funchal airport later that day and was told it was OPERATIONAL reasons why easyjet cancelled their flights and it wasn't just the weather. Our pilot told us the airport was to be closed for the rest of the day and when I asked him why are planes landing at Funchal as we speak he replied 'are they?' Also, plym ian (senior member) the reason I flew to Madeira on christmas eve, so close to christmas was due to work commitements and my children did not break from school until Friday 19th December so this was the only flight we could catch before christmas. Unfortunately not all of us can take a holiday when we want!
As it was our christmas was spent in the Holiday Inn, Bristol. The staff were great and they tried their best to make our christmas a happy one but with a 9 year old and 10 year old who were bitterly disappointed they weren't spending theirs with their grandparents it turned out to be one of the worst Christmas's we have expreienced. I hope easyjet give us some answers as to their operational reasons but I doubt we will ever find out!
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Hi all, my name is Katie Curtis and I appeared on the BBC complaining about our flights being cancelled on christmas eve to madeira.
Can I just let everyone know some more facts:-
We were 2 hours into our flight when we were told the flight had been cancelled due to the weather in madeira and would return to Bristol. At 1120am we landed back in bristol and I text my mum who was in Madeira - AT THE AIRPORT WATCHING PLANES LAND. The airport had only been closed from 950am - 1040 am, my mum confirmed this for us. The same type of planes were landing - airbus A320's with Thomson and TAP air so this was not an excuse. 2 planes were diverted to Porto Santo and the rest of the planes that day landed with minimal delay - ALL EASYJET FLIGHTS WERE CANCELLED, even the later one from Gatwick. My mum contacted Funchal airport later that day and was told it was OPERATIONAL reasons why easyjet cancelled their flights and it wasn't just the weather. Our pilot told us the airport was to be closed for the rest of the day and when I asked him why are planes landing at Funchal as we speak he replied 'are they?' Also, plym ian (senior member) the reason I flew to Madeira on christmas eve, so close to christmas was due to work commitements and my children did not break from school until Friday 19th December so this was the only flight we could catch before christmas. Unfortunately not all of us can take a holiday when we want!
As it was our christmas was spent in the Holiday Inn, Bristol. The staff were great and they tried their best to make our christmas a happy one but with a 9 year old and 10 year old who were bitterly disappointed they weren't spending theirs with their grandparents it turned out to be one of the worst Christmas's we have expreienced. I hope easyjet give us some answers as to their operational reasons but I doubt we will ever find out!
I really feel for you having to spend Christmas in a Holiday Inn at Bristol, but look at those times. If you were 2 hours into the flight out (so you were nearly there), you were 2 hours away from Bristol. If you arrived back in Bristol at 11.20 the pilot turned back at about 09.20 - close enough to 09.50 to be when the decision was taken to close the airport. At the time it was closed nobody would have known when it would reopen, not with enough certainty for the pilot to risk circling while waiting. Once he had turned back he would probably be almost half way back to Bristol before the airport reopened. If he had turned back to Funchal (assuming that he had been told the airport had reopened - which I doubt he had) he would have had to queue with many other planes waiting to land and may not have had enough fuel to give him enough of a safety margin.
Hindsight is powerful, but the pilot would have been gambling with people's lives based on the information he had at the time and I'm sure you wouldn't have wanted that.
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Thank you for posting here with you side of events. Sadly Christmas cannot always be perfect, even when you are 9 or 10. I hope the rest of your holiday has been better.
In addition to Jimacs post...
Different airlines have different Operating Protocols, and any non emergency decisions are made jointly by the Captain and Airline Operations, but at the end of the day the pilots decision is final.
As for 'Operational Reasons', the weather is an Operational Factor. You will find that Easyjet probably took the decision to cancel flights to Funchal in order to avoid delays running well into Christmas Day. This is not, as might easily be thought, a selfish decision but simply a commercial one. Easyjet has never operated on Christmas Day, therefore the expense and logistics of doing so, even temporarily, would be prohibitive. Ground services wouldn't be geared up for the extra work either, as most firm run a skeleton staff of Volunteers, check in staff would have needed to be retained, the list goes on.
Easyjet probably cancelled the its remaining flights to Funchal as part of the decision that saw your flight return to Bristol.
I know of a couple Airtours A320 pilots who would divert to Stansted rather than land at Gatwick, even though the aircraft before and after landed with no problems.
Before I am accused of owt, I spent nearly twelve years working for ground services companies at Gatwick, and have seen things that would make you laugh, cry, scream, shout and render you speechless every day.
Be grateful that you chose to fly with Easyjet rather than Ryanair, and I can only hope that the Bristol Holiday Inn is nicer than the one at Miami Airport, which as I recall, had mildew wallpaper.
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Our plane actually turned around at 950 as we noticed the sun change sides and the captain did not tell us until approx 1010am that we would be returning to Bristol, he also said the airport had been closed for several hours and would be for the rest of the day (which we found out this was not true) - I think easyjet must have made the decision very quickly if the airport had only been closed at 950am. Funchal is renowned for cross winds and we have been told that in 12 years of flights going to and from Funchal a flight has never been turned around in mid air, they are wither diverted to another airport (Porto santo, tenerife or Lisbon). We were just off the West coast of Portugal when we turned around so why could we not be diverted to Portugal? We were due to land in Funchal at 11.50 as we had head winds and the flight was going to take almost 30 minutes longer than expected. The Thomson flight that was due to land at 1145 landed at 1215! One of the Portuguese that was also staying at the Holiday Inn and was in our hotel had family working at Funchal and he informed us that neither Funchal or Bristol tower could understand Easyjet cancelling ALL their flights. The Gatwick flight was turned around after 3 hours in the air! We were 2 hours into our flight but arrived back at Bristol at 1120 due to having good tail winds. I still have underlying doubt about the decision and after speaking to many people in the travel industry they also have questions - did the crew have enough time left if we were delayed to get themselves home for Chrsitmas or even if easyjet had paid their landing fees/taxes? which is not unheard of!
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At the end of the day, Easyjet made their decision, the result of which saw you back in Bristol. They provided you with accommodation, and presumably either flew you out on the next available flight, or refunded your ticket, (although you don't say which). Not sure that they were actually oblidged to provide accommodation as you were stranded in your country of residence.
They could have dumped you in Tenerife or Lisbon, but the reality is you would have been there until Boxing day anyway.
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At the end of the day, Easyjet made their decision, the result of which saw you back in Bristol. They provided you with accommodation, and presumably either flew you out on the next available flight, or refunded your ticket, (although you don't say which). Not sure that they were actually oblidged to provide accommodation as you were stranded in your country of residence.
They could have dumped you in Tenerife or Lisbon, but the reality is you would have been there until Boxing day anyway.
As someone who used to fly commercially for a living, I have sympathy for all involved in this situation. However, without the full story from the airline it is difficult to say exactly what happened.
I believe that it is likely that the Captain was told that the airport was closed, or due to close imminently, due weather, in which case they would not know precisely how long it was to be closed for, and may not even have had a general idea for how long it was likely to be closed. Easyjet, in company with many airlines, and unless tankering excess fuel because of local fuel price differentials, would almost certainly be carrying the minimum amount of fuel commensurate with the safe operation of the flight. Given the aforementioned, the pilot is faced with a decision, do I take a chance and eat into my reserve fuel, (assuming that he still had some left), and hope that the airfield opens in a given time, or do I divert now to the nearest base with company (easyjet) support available? This decision would also be weighted by company operating procedures.
I can assure Katie that no pilot takes such a decision lightly, but it is quite possible to upset intelligent passengers by not telling them the full story at the time, and even that is not always possible if the pilot does not have the full story himself. Katie talks of the 20 minute delay in telling passengers what was happening, I strongly suspect that during this period he was still hoping that a weather window may allow him to return to Madeira, and that in the meantime he was discussing his options with Easyjet operations office. I've been in that situation many times.
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welcome to the forum :y
what are the odds some one in the news and an omega owner ;D ;D ;D
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what Kate hasn't told us is that she made it to Madeira any way so I don't know what she's moaning for, so it was a happy ending anyway :y
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what Kate hasn't told us is that she made it to Madeira any way so I don't know what she's moaning for, so it was a happy ending anyway :y
No cake or wine for you then ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D