Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: davemac on 01 January 2013, 20:01:25
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Hi Guys, Happy New Year to all! ::) ::)
My recently acquired miggy is a tad on the hairy side handling wise.
I have had a track rod replaced and the tracking done. Two new tyres on the front, balanced and inflated to 32 psi.
Although it is a million times better than before there are still some issues. It is almost as if there is no give in the front at all, the slightest bump or pothole on the road seems to want to throw the car offline and I find myself holding the steering wheel for all I'm worth! I had my local garage do a mock MOT test on the car to identify what I would need to do to get her roadworthy and this identified the tracking as a major problem. They tested the shock absorbers and found them to be ok.
Obviously I am not using the car at the moment except to test drive occasionally.
Someone suggested to me that it could be bushes having degraded, I wonder if anyone else has found this to be the case - or could point me in the right direction?
Thanks Guys,
Dave.
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First you need to check your lower arm bushes for splits and tears. Go under the car and with a pry bar lever against the arms at the point the bush fixes to the sub frame, and check for excess movement, there should be some, but not sloppy. If sloppy then replace with OE or poly bushes. Then get the car to WIM IN CHESHAM.(GOOGLE IT)
The car will need FULL geometery not just tracking as many issues are caused by CAMBER issues.
What are the tyres like on the inside edge?
Also while under the car check the steering idler arm for play in the bush,
if play then replace with gen vx part. Start here then post up your findings. You will also find in the MAINT section plenty of guides to these parts and fixes.
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One other thing to check is the shock absorbers as they may well be fubar. :y :y
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Hi, thanks for that.
I had a full geo test done and have the print-out. The tyres are only about 50 miles old.
I will check the other things you said.
Dave :) :) :)
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When the full geo was done was it set to the green on the machine, as these are manufacturers settings and as the car has done a few miles then you can chuck those figures out the window, if also they were done with shagged bushes then you can also chuck them out the window. WIM has reserched the omegas settings very carefully and has developed a figure to set to to allow the car to drive properly. But first you must check and remedy all the other points first or you will just waste your time and hard earned.
By the way what were the old tyres like on the inside edge.?
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Post up your geometry settings, we can advise if the place you used have done it right. Most don't, sadly.
Other things to check are bushes, shocks, broken springs (esp rear), steering idler and all balljoints.
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The old tyres were completely shredded!
I think I should call my garage to have the points you raised checked out. One of the guys there used to have an MV6 so he is familiar with the car.
If I get all that checked out and the car is driveable after I will certainly contact WIM and see about them setting it all up for me.
Thanks again.
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The old tyres were completely shredded!
On the inside edge only?
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Yes, both on the inside edge.
The before and after settings are:
Left front camber -2.10, caster 5.17, toe -2.07 - now -2.20, 5.17. 0.04
right front camber -2.18, caster 5.30, toe - 2.07 - now -2.33, 5.30, 0.05.
Total toe was -4.14 front 0.18 rear - now is 0.09 front and 0.19 rear.
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ths figs will do that, !!! way out. :(
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Yes, both on the inside edge.
The before and after settings are:
Left front camber -2.10, caster 5.17, toe -2.07 - now -2.20, 5.17. 0.04
right front camber -2.18, caster 5.30, toe - 2.07 - now -2.33, 5.30, 0.05.
Total toe was -4.14 front 0.18 rear - now is 0.09 front and 0.19 rear.
Those settings will wreck the inside edge of your tyres within 500 miles. You urgently need to get it done properly (though ideally after sorting out any other worn components first).
Contact wheels-inmotion (a member here). OOF members get discount on any geometry done at Chesham HQ.
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In fact, the retards have actually got it worse than it was before >:(
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To be honest I have no idea what the figures mean!
There were a lot of figures highlighted in red before that are now green so I assumed that to be better!
I will contact WIM as you suggest for their advice,
Thanks bud.
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Classic mistake by people who are trained to set the figures to green on the machine,(only) then wrestle the money out of your hands as quickly as poss and get to the next punter.
Retard sums them up compleatly.
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WIM will not change the settings if they find that you have worn suspension componants, and you will have wasted your time making the journey. But if you make the trip they will tell you what is shagged and what to get fixed, then you will have to make a return trip FOR SET UP.
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recent quote figure for camber setting is n 1.10' (increased inner tyre wear the greater the figure)
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I'm thinking I will ask my garage to check and fix anything wrong first.
Then take the car to WIM.
:)
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Yes, both on the inside edge.
The before and after settings are:
Left front camber -2.10, caster 5.17, toe -2.07 - now -2.20, 5.17. 0.04
right front camber -2.18, caster 5.30, toe - 2.07 - now -2.33, 5.30, 0.05.
Total toe was -4.14 front 0.18 rear - now is 0.09 front and 0.19 rear.
. Those settings are an absolute disgrace. As said, visit wheels in motion chesham.
But first, you must check the car is worth setting up. The front bushes are likely shot as you don't mention wishbones. Strongly consider poly bushes from power flex. Check track rods, wheel bearings, steering idler, in feet check everything for play.
THEN get it set up at wim. With setting like that its no wonder its appalling to drive. Who did the work?
For example, front camber should be -1.10mins.
And toe should be -10mins ( minutes being 60mins to 1 degree. ) so yours has almost exactly 2 degrees too much toe in. And 1 degree too much camber. Wim have an error of +/- 10mins
I think your settings are a decimal fraction of a degree, as opposed to mins of a degree, but even so, there's no way 2 degrees should feature in camber or toe settings.
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The work was done by Kwik Fit in Windsor. The took over Central Tyres in October and kept the same staff. I thought Central were ok but obviously not.
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YOU CANT GET THICKER THAN A KWICK FIT FITTER ::) :y
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Should also add, the new tyres will be suffering badly with those settings, so it's wise to keep use minimal, as you have, from a wear point of view as well. :y
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Thanks Chris.
I have literally driven about 50 miles on them, mainly to the garage and back lol!
I have just written to WIM for their advice too, I will let my garage know what everyone has been kind enough to suggest.
I hope I will be able to enjoy driving the car soon!
Dave.
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Yes, both on the inside edge.
The before and after settings are:
Left front camber -2.10, caster 5.17, toe -2.07 - now -2.20, 5.17. 0.04
right front camber -2.18, caster 5.30, toe - 2.07 - now -2.33, 5.30, 0.05.
Total toe was -4.14 front 0.18 rear - now is 0.09 front and 0.19 rear.
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And toe should be -10mins ( minutes being 60mins to 1 degree. ) so yours has almost exactly 2 degrees too much toe in. And 1 degree too much camber. Wim have an error of +/- 10mins
I read it as Toe before L -2.07 R -2.07 after L +0.04 R +0.05
A little bit of toe out can make an otherwise sweet handling RWD car feel vague :(
(The other settings guarantee that it is anything but sweet handling of course..........)
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Yes, both on the inside edge.
The before and after settings are:
Left front camber -2.10, caster 5.17, toe -2.07 - now -2.20, 5.17. 0.04
right front camber -2.18, caster 5.30, toe - 2.07 - now -2.33, 5.30, 0.05.
Total toe was -4.14 front 0.18 rear - now is 0.09 front and 0.19 rear.
. Those settings are an absolute disgrace. As said, visit wheels in motion chesham.
But first, you must check the car is worth setting up. The front bushes are likely shot as you don't mention wishbones. Strongly consider poly bushes from power flex. Check track rods, wheel bearings, steering idler, in feet check everything for play.
THEN get it set up at wim. With setting like that its no wonder its appalling to drive. Who did the work?
For example, front camber should be -1.10mins.
And toe should be -10mins ( minutes being 60mins to 1 degree. ) so yours has almost exactly 2 degrees too much toe in. And 1 degree too much camber. Wim have an error of +/- 10mins
I think your settings are a decimal fraction of a degree, as opposed to mins of a degree, but even so, there's no way 2 degrees should feature in camber or toe settings.
done a video of perfectly motable bushes the other week.
http://s1114.beta.photobucket.com/user/tidla1/media/20121228_113608_zpsbc553586.mp4.html
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/tidla1/20121228_113017_zpsadf9af5d.jpg)
poly fitted.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/tidla1/20121228_191026_zps372952ad.jpg)
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Yes, both on the inside edge.
The before and after settings are:
Left front camber -2.10, caster 5.17, toe -2.07 - now -2.20, 5.17. 0.04
right front camber -2.18, caster 5.30, toe - 2.07 - now -2.33, 5.30, 0.05.
Total toe was -4.14 front 0.18 rear - now is 0.09 front and 0.19 rear.
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And toe should be -10mins ( minutes being 60mins to 1 degree. ) so yours has almost exactly 2 degrees too much toe in. And 1 degree too much camber. Wim have an error of +/- 10mins
I read it as Toe before L -2.07 R -2.07 after L +0.04 R +0.05
A little bit of toe out can make an otherwise sweet handling RWD car feel vague :(
(The other settings guarantee that it is anything but sweet handling of course..........)
Actually yes. :y
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Just a follow up on this post fellow Oofs!
I have collected the car yesterday having had a lot of work done. Basically I said to my garage to keep me informed of what they found and I would yay or nay as we went along. Many yays and £££'s later I have had the following replaced:
Tie rod ends x2, link arms x2, both shocks and top mounts, both suspension arms and ARB bushes.
Parts used were Lemforder and another name which I can't remember but was also on some of the GM original parts replaced.
I was shown the replaced parts and there were a lot of splits and tears in the bushes pretty well everywhere. The shocks were weak - very easily compressed by hand - and the top mounts were compacted by over 10mm compared to the new ones.
The overall result is that the car is now totally driveable! :-) On a quiet straight road I gradually increased speed and braking and there is minimal pulling either with hands off the wheel or braking hard.
I have no idea what the geometry is now but feel the car is in a fit state to take to Wheels in Motion, hopefully next week.
Will be calling them on Monday morning - unless they are there today.
Many thanks to all for your guidance and suggestions following my post :) :) :) :) :) :)
Dave.
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When you get it on Wims ramp, get them to undo the front wishbone bolts, then re tighten them to 120nm plus angle tighten 30 then 15 degrees.
These must be tightened with wheels loaded, or the bushes will fail early. :)
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Thanks Chris,
I will note that down and ask that they do that.
Do you have any idea of their cost for a full geometry set-up?
:-)
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£60 plus vat if you mention oof. Although it may have gone up since I was there last.
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Hi all!
I called WIM on Saturday and got the car booked in for 11 am. Monday morning.
The guy on the phone seemed pleased I had a lot of new parts fitted!
I got there a few minutes early and checked in, very soon after Tony got the car on the ramp and set to work.
It only took him about 30 mins to do the geometry and there was only one issue - the rear n/s toe could not be adjusted due to totally siezed joints somewhere. However, Tony explained that as the setting was only 0.03 minutes over tolerance it was not massively out. I will see about getting new parts fitted when (if!) my Miggy funds build up again :)
The other side was adjusted as were the front toe settings.
The rest of the settings were surprisingly not far out and Tony corrected the steering wheel angle too.
I drove a very different car home by 11.45 and would like to thank the guys at WIM for great work :) :) :)
In the next couple of months I am going to have new disks and pads fitted, at least on the front but perhaps the rear too.
Can anyone advise the best place to source the parts for this please?
Also would anyone advise that the geometry be rechecked after this or will it not be affected by this work?
Thanks again to all of you that gave me great help and advice over this problem :y :y :y :y
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Disks and pads won't upset the geometry. :y
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Was your steering wheel straight when you left........
....sorry, broken record :-[
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Yes, nice and straight!
As well as driving back from Chesham I drove around another 50 miles - quite aimlessly but enjoyable ;D ;D
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Can anyone advise the best place to source the parts for this please? .....
Vauxhall if you use a Trade Club Card ....... around £100 for disCs & pads
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Yes go with gen vx pads and discs, pattern parts will require replacement very soon due to warping and insane squeeling from poor pads. :y