Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Bionic on 02 January 2013, 07:46:22
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::) Now this has to raise a laugh. According to a recent survey done by The Princes' Trust, a very worthy organisation with good intentions, the vast majority of the youths surveyed stated that they were unhappy, depressed, bored and found it difficult to relate to the people and real world circumstances around them.
??? That is hardly surprising when the majority of them spend countless hours in a world that is not real, it is a VIRTUAL REALITY one, on their various games consoles, smart phones etc! It seems to me that the problem is that they cannot differentiate between real and imaginary and therefore makes the solution and remedy a very simple one. Stop them accessing and using virtual reality games for long periods of time. Have the manufacturers and designers build in a mandatory maximum time limit operation on them of a few hours, say 2, that would then cut the game off until a longer set period of say 8 hours had elepsed. That way they would then have to spend time in the real world that suirrounds them and adapt back to it :y Will they like it, of course not because the real world is boring after the many exciting adventures they had in the virtual one which to them had become REAL LIFE.
Why cannot the doogooders and government see that? Are they in some sort of working imaginary virtual world too? ::) ::)
Depressed? ;) It is the rest of us that have to put up with their selfish ways that should, and have the right to be depressed...........
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I'm not having a pop, but, why is that many of your posts come over as being somewhat negative in nature ....
It's a new year, life isn't perfect, but a seemingly constant stream of negativity wont solve anything will it?
All IMHO of course ......
Happy new year! :y
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Just another rant with no basis in fact.
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I bet they're all happier, more excited and less depressed than you Bionic! :y
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.... Have the manufacturers and designers build in a mandatory maximum time limit operation on them of a few hours, say 2, that would then cut the game off until a longer set period of say 8 hours had elapsed. ............
They'd soon find a cheat ...... ;)
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Happy new year
Victor Meldrew Bionic ;D ;D ;D
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Bah! I bloody hate Christmas!!! >:(
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::) Now this has to raise a laugh. According to a recent survey done by The Princes' Trust, a very worthy organisation with good intentions, the vast majority of the youths surveyed stated that they were unhappy, depressed, bored and found it difficult to relate to the people and real world circumstances around them.
??? That is hardly surprising when the majority of them spend countless hours in a world that is not real, it is a VIRTUAL REALITY one, on their various games consoles, smart phones etc! It seems to me that the problem is that they cannot differentiate between real and imaginary and therefore makes the solution and remedy a very simple one. Stop them accessing and using virtual reality games for long periods of time. Have the manufacturers and designers build in a mandatory maximum time limit operation on them of a few hours, say 2, that would then cut the game off until a longer set period of say 8 hours had elepsed. That way they would then have to spend time in the real world that suirrounds them and adapt back to it :y Will they like it, of course not because the real world is boring after the many exciting adventures they had in the virtual one which to them had become REAL LIFE.
Why cannot the doogooders and government see that? Are they in some sort of working imaginary virtual world too? ::) ::)
Depressed? ;) It is the rest of us that have to put up with their selfish ways that should, and have the right to be depressed...........
I take it you expect today's 'Youth' to go through the same life experiences you had growing up? Well life and technology moves on. It's simply not the same. You can't let your children play on the streets, traffic is much heavier, people commute further (so perhaps spend less time as a family unit), entertainment has moved on - my kids won't be rolling a hoop down the street with a stick, they'll be no doubt interested in the latest iStation Box, and probably because their friends think it's 'Mega'.
It's interesting that one of the things I discussed with my other half this Christmas was the way parents generally try and give their kids a bit better that what they had growing up (might be wildly out here, but that was the conclusion we drew). That means that every generation is likely to get slightly more, bigger and lavish experiences of birthdays, christmases (plural for Christmas? - come on grammar police!) etc which in turn devalues the occasion a bit each time. I actually got the wife to put some of the kids presents back into hiding for later in the year, just because I thought she'd gone overboard a bit and they'd reach present saturation where there's too many things to play with.
anyway, i don't usually join in these discussions, and as much as I'd love to be able to turn the clock back a bit and give my kids some of the experiences I had growing up, I'm pretty sure as a kid I'd have loved to have seen some of the amazing things that technology has produced.
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Bionic I think your post voices the truth..
Communities grow up their children under their hands and in relatively good condition and far from realities..
We buy them everything as much as we can.. and when the day comes we expect them to deal with realities..
Thats wrong.. like many other things.. besides the education that we give them never prepares them for future..
I have spent nearly 20 years of my life under education and sadly I can say that even the technology given in universities is outdated..
Besides the in this system all those tv shows, serials , adverts,films are even programmed to make the people demand more , buy more so they raise the level of expectations for life.. And it be will unusual to expect that a young brain wont be effected from all those..
Very simple example , I see samsung note 2 in adverts and I want one.. Game consoles, I dont have.. but stil I want one.. And I'm 46 (http://images.omegaowners.com/forum/smf2000/Smileys/oofxmas/grin.gif) and many other things..
besides, those children grown up with tv and game culture being far from books dont have the level of information thats is required to plan their future.. So the current situation is no surprise.. And one more point, I dont think todays adults, grown ups can understand the childrens situation..
We grow up under very different conditions.. When I was a children there was no internet, no computers around and only one tv channel (http://images.omegaowners.com/forum/smf2000/Smileys/oofxmas/grin.gif) And I spend most of time playing in the street with marbles, frogs,turtles and on fruit trees (http://images.omegaowners.com/forum/smf2000/Smileys/oofxmas/grin.gif) now the post is in the correct place , thanks Admins ;D
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There is always a strong danger of painting all "youth" with the same brush.
However, with and without any surveys that are conducted I know that the vast majority of the children being put under the microscope are just trying to make the best of their young lives, as we once did, in a world WE created. Whatever is now is down to US, and how we have raised our children in the life we have given them. I have had the pleasure to be in amongst many youngsters who are very bright, who are trying to understand the world we exist in, and are actively trying very hard to engage with it.
When I was young I remember many adults denigrating the youth of the day, calling many of them "Teddy Boys" when that in reality could be tagged on a minority. So many adults would say "they should join the bloody Army!", just because they had been forced in a position to fight a war! They forgot that the last thing we wanted our young to do is fight a war, just to become mature adults at an accelerated rate! All generations have felt the same about their youth, but when the cards are down those very same youngsters will do us proud. They are suffering from all the feelings of inadequacy and feeling intimidated by "the system" that we once felt, as they are immature and unsophisticated as you are when you are young, but grow out of eventually. "Depression" can go with that, and I experienced a lot of that myself when I was of a tender age.
So, in short, stop knocking our youth and instead get off your backsides and improve overall life and give the young something they can respect. However, as I say the vast majority of the young are up for the challenge, so give them the jobs and we can then be proud of them and ourselves!.
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There is always a strong danger of painting all "youth" with the same brush.
However, with and without any surveys that are conducted I know that the vast majority of the children being put under the microscope are just trying to make the best of their young lives, as we once did, in a world WE created. Whatever is now is down to US, and how we have raised our children in the life we have given them. I have had the pleasure to be in amongst many youngsters who are very bright, who are trying to understand the world we exist in, and are actively trying very hard to engage with it.
When I was young I remember many adults denigrating the youth of the day, calling many of them "Teddy Boys" when that in reality could be tagged on a minority. So many adults would say "they should join the bloody Army!", just because they had been forced in a position to fight a war! They forgot that the last thing we wanted our young to do is fight a war, just to become mature adults at an accelerated rate! All generations have felt the same about their youth, but when the cards are down those very same youngsters will do us proud. They are suffering from all the feelings of inadequacy and feeling intimidated by "the system" that we once felt, as they are immature and unsophisticated as you are when you are young, but grow out of eventually. "Depression" can go with that, and I experienced a lot of that myself when I was of a tender age.
So, in short, stop knocking our youth and instead get off your backsides and improve overall life and give the young something they can respect. However, as I say the vast majority of the young are up for the challenge, so give them the jobs and we can then be proud of them and ourselves!.
Keeping the youngs who faced the war, aside , on a real test high percentage of this grown out adults would have failed Lizzie.. And I wont even debate about it..
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Yet another lot of depressing waffle. Bionic get a life and cheer up ;)
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I think it is very easy to paint everybody with the same brush. Problem children are a minority, the same as they were in my generation and all generations. There are many hard working young who have worked hard at school and gone on to university incurring large debts that they have got to pay off before they can think of buying a house, having a family etc. So I think in many respects they have got it much tougher than our generation, where we could afford to do these things at a somewhat younger age.
The current economic depression and high youth unemployment makes it very difficult for today's youth compared to when I started work. I'm also in no doubt the educational system was much better when I went to school, for the simple reason that it was recognized that children have different abilities and we were streamed by ability. We don't need a nation with degrees, but one with a wide range of skills to make society work. The majority of pupils left school at 16 with many apprenticeships and other work based training available, rather than staying in education until they are 21 with non-degrees like leisure and tourism, media studies or drama to end up as an in-debt burger flipper. Schools were also competitive places, so this did not come as a complete shock when you have to go out into the big wide world. We also had the basics of reading, writing and arithmetic, which too many of today's young don't!
Unfortunately, for all concerned schools have been a political and ideological battle between politicians, education authorities, teaching methods, rigid curriculums, grade inflation, petty health and safety rules, teaching unions and teachers with the needs of children and what they need to succeed in life being at the bottom of the list. It is easy to blame teachers, but there is a whole raft of bosses and rules above them which they have to follow whether they like it or not!
There is no doubt that peer and advertising pressure is much stronger than in previous generations, but it is adults that set the rules and standards for TV advertising, film and video game age ratings etc.
In terms of family cohesion and societies attitude towards children and youth, there is much that this country could and should learn from European families and society. It is no surprise that this country is classed as the worst industrialized country in the world to bring up children by the UN.
So rather than just blaming youth, I think as a country and society and as adults we should be taking a good hard look at ourselves. Are we all doing our best to help the next generation succeed?
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;)
I have read the replys and now it is my time to respond. I also note that those who use the word rant also do so far more regularly than I do.
Depressed? I have never been that and will never be because I believe that my own life is of my making and therefore I am responsible for matters that affect how I would feel. Stange to call somone depressed that you have never met or know though. I look in the mirror every day and what I see I like, as do my friends, neighbours and family. I am pleased to say that I do have quite a lot of respect due to my work within the area I reside. Nothing negative towards me at all...... Assumptions are all too easy to make but not to justify.
I fully agree with the sentiments of Rods2 who, like me and probably lots more too, appears to have a real grasp on the reality of todays world and have values that are not so different. Some of our youth are intent on bettering themselves and it is they I applaud. It is the remainder I constantly hear whinging they cannot have what they want simply because they think they are entitled to it without any effort being made by them. They are the ones who are intent on being passengers through life, probably taught by their parents in that manner, whom I object to supporting. What I would like to see is that the education system goes back to the 60's where the teachers were respected and called Mr, Mrs or Miss as a sign of respect. Where they actually stood for no nonsense in class and where the vast majority left school able to do the 3 R's efficiently. Home discipline also accounted for the higher levels of respect and self respect in those days past. Bring in a system of National Conscription as the rest of Europe have for a couple of years. It not do me any wrong and taught me self discipline, to think independantly, respect myself, respect others and work as a team. I ended up being promoted and left after the 9 years service I had agreed to.
As for those who are of the opposite viewpoint you can have ago as much as you like but at the end of the day I tend to live in the real world of free speech and opinion and can see no optimism when so many are so very obviously intent on losing the credibility of this once great country by their own power seeking, self glorifying and attention seeking grandstanding.
Fortunately there are those of us who have an independant mind and will not bow like sheep to the wishes of those who are quite happy to be led like them. Funny how it is those who tend to happy being a part of the in crowd that sceam the loudest when something they have agreed with ends up hurting, instead of bettering their lives. vAs for the waffle about no jobs, yes, well that came about by the natural development of technology and mechanisation where the use of mass labour was no longer required. It is the same throughout the whole of the developed world and the youth of this country should accept that. By accepting that it does not follow that they should simply give up looking, trying or even starting their own little business as many of us older ones used to do to help out with the family incomes which in those days were lower than today. Whinging never got anyone anywhere and it never will because at some point the sympathy factor runs out.
Polititians too can only do the best they can and they cannot do 'miracles' simply because there are those who demand action. Tgis countries money was wasted by the other party in power for years who did nothing but borrow borrow borrow and then borrow to pay the inerest on those loans! That is why we are in the state we are in today and the government is doing the best it can to get rid of that massive, massive legacy of debt left to them by their predecessors! This country is almost broke and almost fell into bankruptcy which is why the drastic painful action was deemed necessary. Labour dispute that fact but it is the truth. I now do not support my past lifelong Labour Party because they are as far as I can see the worst choice for this countries future. They would, if they ever gained power again, only do as they had done so many times before and increase the National Debt. That is called a fact of life. Same applies to strikes, they are too easily put into action and care not for the associated damage they cause to others. Too many strikes eventually did for the miners, eventually they also lost public support and that is a lesson that should not be forgotten by those who are now considering the same type of action to bully their way forward.
Fact is that the strikes will go ahead though and once again it will not be their fault for the damage they cause. Bet its the teachers who will be the first strike too..... ::)
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Any chance you can split that lot up into paragraphs Victor ?
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Bionic sounds a lot like me, but i tend to keep my rants to myself, i dont like to upset folk ;D
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The trouble with problem children is that after they graduate from being bullies with no respect, destroying property and generally being a PITA, with no concept of reality is that they end up in the Cabinet ;D ;D
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Quite a general statement, I grew up playing PC games. Lemmings, Duke Nukem, Quake, Carmageddon, were big ones. FatherT used to bring his work PC home in the car, before days of laptops. He had a company Ford Granada at the time!
Since switched to console games now, bit of Battlefield 3 and so on. But my work life is also heavily IT, mobile TV streaming, broadcast services and iOS/Android Apps.
I was well aware what is reality and what's not, after years of computer games now with a good job I enjoy travelling the world :)
Thing is not everyone is the same, think your trying to paint too many people with the same brush ;)
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And look what happened to you. :P :D ;D ;D
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And look what happened to you. :P :D ;D ;D
Good point :D ;D ;D ;D :y
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Tony Blair and New Labour robbed a generation of Britain's youth of opportunity when he opened our borders to Eastern European EU countries in 2004. They took the low and semi skilled jobs that traditionally would have been the first rung on the employment ladder for young people. >:(
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Politics aside, there's not many natives at all, let alone younger natives who wish to do many of these low paid unskilled jobs. I know quite a few Poles who have such jobs, and according to them Brits turn up to a chicken processing factory for example, last a few days and aren't seen again. Explains why 'foreigners' have these jobs.
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Politics aside, there's not many natives at all, let alone younger natives who wish to do many of these low paid unskilled jobs. I know quite a few Poles who have such jobs, and according to them Brits turn up to a chicken processing factory for example, last a few days and aren't seen again. Explains why 'foreigners' have these jobs.
In my day the local Buxted chicken factory, used to be the last port of call after trying anything and everything else, so nothing changes then. ::) :o :o :o
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I really can't see things getting better any time soon. Cancel that...any time at all. I go through phases of calling the young 'uns lazy little bastards, then I put myself in their position and feel quite sorry for them.
I could go on for hours about the rights and wrongs of this and that, but it's all been said by people more clever than me.
As far as I can see, the major cause of dissatisfaction is the 'I want' or 'I deserve' culture, which they truly believe...I think. Hardly surprising in a society where success is judged on the number of ipads, video games players etc. we possess. They are constantly bombarded by such things on telly and big companies cannot survive unless we all 'upgrade' every 12 months or so.
When we were growing up, I don't think we were subjected to such pressure. And, if we weren't that good at school, we accepted that there would still be a pretty reasonable job at the end of it. Working in a car plant or one of the multitude of small factory units, although mind-numbing, was reasonably payed.
I have no idea what the answer is, but I do know that, amongst the neer-do-wells that grab the headlines, there is a core of willing and 'normal' kids who would love to just do all the things we did.
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Politics aside, there's not many natives at all, let alone younger natives who wish to do many of these low paid unskilled jobs. I know quite a few Poles who have such jobs, and according to them Brits turn up to a chicken processing factory for example, last a few days and aren't seen again. Explains why 'foreigners' have these jobs.
I dont buy into that argument at all Im afraid.If there were any truth in it,who did all the menial low paids jobs 15 years ago before the recent inlux of mass migration ?
The Brits have always been among the hardest working,most inventive people in the world throughout history.I dont believe that national characteristic has changed beyond recognition in less than one generation.
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i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone as i cant be arsed to get in to an argument.
what i'l say is this.....
i have absolutely no idea whether the majority of todays' youth are happy or unhappy and i dont believe one survey would represent the entire view on their lives for all of the kids.
with regards to respect in school thats something i do know about..... being in college at the mo...... EVERYONE has to call the teacher sir or mr/mrs.... there are teachers that get trampled on by the kids.. they talk throughout classes if they can get away with it with certain teachers. me as a 30 year old gezer finds that pretty boring and disrespectful... but im sure i was like them at that age.
HOWEVER, there is one teacher who commands respect and silence when he's teaching. and he never shouts. occasionally he can be a bit odd, but for the most part he'll treat you as his friend. if the kids do abything bad he belittles them without shouting. its what jeremy clarkson calls the ''i'm disapointed in you'' card. and that works.
as for the kids i call my class mates, theyre really trying to get on. theyre very happy... theyres not a moment goes by without a laugh. but they enjoy what we do. my point is this... show me a bunch of kids that are depressed and fed up with everything and ill show you my class mates who are very happy.
as said not arguing. just my observations from real life situations ive been in :)
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Politics aside, there's not many natives at all, let alone younger natives who wish to do many of these low paid unskilled jobs. I know quite a few Poles who have such jobs, and according to them Brits turn up to a chicken processing factory for example, last a few days and aren't seen again. Explains why 'foreigners' have these jobs.
I dont buy into that argument at all Im afraid.If there were any truth in it,who did all the menial low paids jobs 15 years ago before the recent inlux of mass migration ?
The Brits have always been among the hardest working,most inventive people in the world throughout history.I dont believe that national characteristic has changed beyond recognition in less than one generation.
Well it's a fact Albs, I'm not making broad swearing statements and tarring everyone with the same brush like a lot of people seem to do, but it's certainly a significant trend in society.
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Being young myself I think with all the crap that is on the news today people tend to focus all the negativity they see on the news and other places with all of a specific generation and not base their opinion on the person they meet but rather on what they see or hear.
I often had people call me trouble, call me a waste of space, etc purely based on the way I dressed as I was a skater I tended to wear baggy clothes, people would not judge me on who I actually was, and I had seen this happen to many people, Once whilst delivering papers on my round I was going into a house to post a paper at the same time as one of their elderly neighbours, he walked away and waited untill I left the garden based purely on my dress sense, because accorrding to the media youths were all trouble!
So all I have to say is don't base judgement on what is read or purely passed on about a certain generation, a certain culture, etc because not all of them are the same it is usually just the minority of them that are like that, make judgement on the people themselves as you may be quite surprised as to how different those people are to what you believe.
Majority of people I meet from the age of 13 to my age are generally quite happy and are well in tune with the real world, the only ones I tend to find who are unhappy or depressed are the bullied who get what they don't deserve either because of the way they look or the lack of things they have, etc, and also the spoilt who get given far too much and have everything handed to them on a plate to make life easier and seem to think they should have more because that is how they were brought up, I know a few people who are always complaining they are unhappy because they don't have this and they don't have that because their parents spoon fed them everything, I also know a lot of gamers who a very happy and also are very in tune with reality, they have a good balance between work, gaming and a social life.
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No group of people can be classified so easily. We are all different, thank God, and I think a lot of these 'surveys' which are carried out are motivated either by politics or for commercial reasons, certainly by some self-interested party.
I hear so much about, say, obesity. When I walk around my northern, working class neck of the woods I don't see one in three people as obese. Bit, if you believe the hype, I should be falling over them.
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Politics aside, there's not many natives at all, let alone younger natives who wish to do many of these low paid unskilled jobs. I know quite a few Poles who have such jobs, and according to them Brits turn up to a chicken processing factory for example, last a few days and aren't seen again. Explains why 'foreigners' have these jobs.
I dont buy into that argument at all Im afraid.If there were any truth in it,who did all the menial low paids jobs 15 years ago before the recent inlux of mass migration ?
The Brits have always been among the hardest working,most inventive people in the world throughout history.I dont believe that national characteristic has changed beyond recognition in less than one generation.
Well it's a fact Albs, I'm not making broad swearing statements and tarring everyone with the same brush like a lot of people seem to do, but it's certainly a significant trend in society.
Its not a fact at all imo,its a myth perpetuated by the lefty media to excuse the criminal act of allowing completely unchecked immigration into the U.K. in the last decade.
Ive mentioned it before,but as an example of how it works the other way too - my last employer sacked me on the spot (after 20 years of very hard work and extremely loyal service)for having a disabilty,then replaced me with a recent migrant from Eastern Europe who was half my age.The quality of his work was appalling and he did so much damage to expensive equipment it would have been much more cost effective to have paid him his wages and told him to stay at home.He had a complete "couldnt give a toss" attitude to the job.
I also believe that a fact which is underpublicised is that quite a high percentage of the criminals in this country nowadays are immigrants who have no interest in doing an honest days work,but who came here for easy pickings in a rich country with an extremely soft justice system.
I had a group of Eastern Europeans fitting a kitchen in my house a couple of yeard ago,and it was like watching a Laurel & Hardy film.
The workmanship was beyond belief.They had to take it all out and reinstall it three times,and it took over 3 months to get the job done to a standard which was anywhere near acceptable.
Imo,if theres a problem with the yoof of today in this country its that the last govt. gave them an overblown sense of entitlement.
The entitlement to sit on their arse if they felt like it,or if they actually wanted to make something of their lives,an entitlement to go to uni,get a degree (often in media studies,possibly majoring in Take That, the early years) and then feeling entitled to have a very highly paid glamourous job at the ned of it.
If govts. in eastern Europe had socially engineered their current generation the way ours did with this generation,then they would have the same problems we now have.
If we can over time,steer the country back to less glamorous businesses (such as relatively small scale high quality manufacturing) and educate our young in a way that they are happy to build a long term career in these jobs (rather than wanting to be a reality TV instant superstar,without any discernable talent) then we cna rebuild our reputation of being a country of hard working,creative,inventive people and the Union flag displayed prominently on products can be a sign of quality products across the world as it used to be.
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It is a fact, they see Brits turn up who can't be arsed go do the job, the next day they don't come back.
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:-X Please dont go down the obese road....I am soon to go back to Skeggy area for my regular fishing jaunts and I see enough of them in Skeggy in their electric scooters. Not all, if any at all, can have the usual excuse of 'gland trouble' or an ilness that made them lose control of their overeating. Skeggy maybe the 'northern place' that should retain the name of the fat capital during the holiday season.
;) I still grin when the twice the size (literally) of me dietition nurse informed me that I was a mere single stone (6Kg) overweight. Looking at her gave me more than enough reason to start a weight loss regime! Perhaps that is why the NHS employ the huge ones in those roles?
Ah well....its still a happy new year despite all of the miseries gits in my local area. Even managed not to rack up any debt on the cards again this year so will be comfortably off. I can't feel sorry or sympathetic towards those who now face ages of high repayments and will keep on borrowing year after year. Simple solution is to spend what you can afford and already have.
;) I reckon that the availablity of credit cards should be curtailed to one per person with a maximum of £1000.00 credit limit or 12c times the nett annual salary/income per card holder and only given to those who have a proven nett income of that sum.
:y Debit cards are no problem because you cannot spend what you do not have in the bank! They are just as useful and available to pay for anything bought exactly the same as with a credit card. The only difference - the biggy - is that you are not using or paying for credit and so building up accumulative debts. This country now apparently has the 'honour' of having the highest levels of personal debt in the EU. Did the all follow the lead of Labour and spent, spent, spent, borrow, borrow, borrow until we achieved the distiction of having the highest personal debt awarded to us? How sad.
Now for the garden at last its fine..........and I can get away from the deadly boring and constantly repetitive BTVision and Freeview tv offerings. Roll on March when my contract ends with BT when I can go back to Sky. Might even get issed on that day :y
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It is a fact, they see Brits turn up who can't be arsed go do the job, the next day they don't come back.
Geoff, the reason that many of these factories, food processing plants and distribution centres are staffed almost exclusively by Eastern Europeans is because as soon as New Labour opened the doors, the big companies dropped the pay to minimum wage. This meant that many locals were better off on benefits especially if they had kids. :(
I know this for a fact as in 2004 I was working as a lorry driver for a large transport company that specialised in chilled and frozen foods. A large Sainsbury's distribution centre in Bristol always comes to mind in these conversations where pre 2004 the workforce was pretty much all local people and the wages were good. However, after 2004 the pay dropped to minimum wage and within a year most of the workers were Polish or other Eastern European. :o
Although the pay was good before 2004 most of the workforce were on short-term contracts or were agency workers. A local bloke told me that his contract was up for renewal and despite having worked there for a couple of years his wage was being dropped to a level where he wouldn't be able to afford his mortgage.... The Eastern Europeans can afford to work for the low wage as many of them live 15 to a small terrace house and have minimal outgoings!!
In my opinion it's a national scandal, but no politicians will bring it up for fear of being accused of racism!!!! >:(
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Well said Tiger-Hayes! :y :y
You have summed up very well the problem. If business can obtain a cheaper work force then, if it is legal, they will to increase their profits. Sod the workforce that have served them well for so long and helped to build the business, as all the owners care about is profit!
Why should someone live on a pittance after working hard and long for an employer, when the boss decides to cut the wages paid with new contracts being introduced. The problem nationwide is far too many are prepared to work for peanuts, and are not paid the true worth of their labour.
It is not about immigration or racism, it is about everyone being paid a true "working wage", and not needing state benefits to survive on. It is wrong, unjust and damaging to our nation and its future.
The young of our country must however start in employment, and usually on the lowest rung of the ladder with a wage to match. That is the reality that exists now, and always has done as I well know. But what we then must do is to give those youngsters every hope of being able to climb that ladder, with good training, to better paid, more interesting positions. The excuse the employers have got now, with so much cheap labour about, is that they can keep many on the bottom rung of the ladder, and therefore a basic wage, for far too long. No wonder the young are dissatisfied and wanting something better. I would be, and I am sure so would you all!
Time for change has come, and it is time for a whole package of measures; better education, superior on the job training; apprenticeships in all mass employment businesses, let alone smaller ones; large civil engineering projects; central finance agreements to companies to extend their existing business, and money to create new ones, especially in engineering and the sciences; a national policy to "Buy British", and not for instance buying trains in Germany that our companies can construct; and generally a mass movement to bring our industries up to 21st century standards, and away from 19th century practice and mentality. ;)
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:y :y Good on you both Tiger and Lizzie.....people after my own heart. Problem is now they are here and grabbing every job they can and still being unwanted by many of those Brits whose jobs they are stealing how do we get rid of them? Perhaps Labour, the party who caused the problem in the first place, will come up with the solution....NOT. It was just a bit more proof that the Labour party cannot ever be trusted to govern. They lost my vote permanently when Blair got in because I knew first hand of, and experienced his pattern of politics from where he began his political career in the North Esat before I moved south.
Now I just do not know who to trust.....perhaps the Queen should do as old and hold all of the power. And hopefully have the power to remove heads (literally). At least it could not be any worse for us lowly ones. ::)
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:y :y Good on you both Tiger and Lizzie.....people after my own heart. Problem is now they are here and grabbing every job they can and still being unwanted by many of those Brits whose jobs they are stealing how do we get rid of them? Perhaps Labour, the party who caused the problem in the first place, will come up with the solution....NOT. It was just a bit more proof that the Labour party cannot ever be trusted to govern. They lost my vote permanently when Blair got in because I knew first hand of, and experienced his pattern of politics from where he began his political career in the North Esat before I moved south.
Now I just do not know who to trust.....perhaps the Queen should do as old and hold all of the power. And hopefully have the power to remove heads (literally). At least it could not be any worse for us lowly ones. ::)
An absolute monarchy again Bionic? Interesting, but this country tried that one and it was not good........................... ;)
As for everything else; there certainly needs to be a big change, and harsh decisions made on how far we escalate our population over the next ten years. A halt for now we be in order to allow our civil system and infrasture to catch up. A halt to EU dictates, at least, is also a requirement now! ;)
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You can't really blame businesses for exploiting the fact that plentiful labour is available at the minimum wage. The market was flooded with unskilled labourers so the price came down, and any competent business is run to minimise costs.
What you have to ask, IMHO, is why it's preferable not to work at all than accept your pay being cut to the minimum wage? There isn't much point in having a minimum wage if you can have a more comfortable life on benefits, so minimum wage too low, or benefits too generous?
Of course, if we decide, as a nation, that we want a low level of unemployment, reasonable benefits and a minimum wage that allows a comfortable lifestyle, then we have to control immigration based on the skills the country actually needs, not allow a flood of unskilled workers when we already have a glut of them and decreasing opportunities due to a shift away from manufacturing industry. Sadly, Brussels have tied our hands on that one.
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You can't really blame businesses for exploiting the fact that plentiful labour is available at the minimum wage. The market was flooded with unskilled labourers so the price came down, and any competent business is run to minimise costs.
What you have to ask, IMHO, is why it's preferable not to work at all than accept your pay being cut to the minimum wage? There isn't much point in having a minimum wage if you can have a more comfortable life on benefits, so minimum wage too low, or benefits too generous?
Of course, if we decide, as a nation, that we want a low level of unemployment, reasonable benefits and a minimum wage that allows a comfortable lifestyle, then we have to control immigration based on the skills the country actually needs, not allow a flood of unskilled workers when we already have a glut of them and decreasing opportunities due to a shift away from manufacturing industry. Sadly, Brussels have tied our hands on that one.
Those points hit it in one Kevin :y :y :y :y
In a capitalist system the market dictates what transpires in terms of what is produced, how much is made, the price of the goods, and the amount the manufacturer can pay his employees. As I have stated previously, National policy must be of increasing our industrial base, training employees in the skills they require in the 21st century, whilst ensuring the supply of labour (from overseas especially) matches demand from our businesses, and what our Nation can comfortably sustain in terms of the financial outlay and the infrasture of Britain. :)
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Those points hit it in one Kevin :y :y :y :y
In a capitalist system the market dictates what transpires in terms of what is produced, how much is made, the price of the goods, and the amount the manufacturer can pay his employees. As I have stated previously, National policy must be of increasing our industrial base, training employees in the skills they require in the 21st century, whilst ensuring the supply of labour (from overseas especially) matches demand from our businesses, and what our Nation can comfortably sustain in terms of the financial outlay and the infrasture of Britain. :)
Indeed. We need one. Employment is not a system that will somehow find a happy medium when dozens of uncoordinated, haphazard policies contribute to it. It must be actively managed, and all government policy (and those inherited from Brussels) must pull towards a sensible goal.
All pigs fuelled and ready for take-off. ;)
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Those points hit it in one Kevin :y :y :y :y
In a capitalist system the market dictates what transpires in terms of what is produced, how much is made, the price of the goods, and the amount the manufacturer can pay his employees. As I have stated previously, National policy must be of increasing our industrial base, training employees in the skills they require in the 21st century, whilst ensuring the supply of labour (from overseas especially) matches demand from our businesses, and what our Nation can comfortably sustain in terms of the financial outlay and the infrasture of Britain. :)
Indeed. We need one. Employment is not a system that will somehow find a happy medium when dozens of uncoordinated, haphazard policies contribute to it. It must be actively managed, and all government policy (and those inherited from Brussels) must pull towards a sensible goal.
All pigs fuelled and ready for take-off. ;)
..........and painted pink! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I didn't bother reading all three of your long boring posts. There's too many people on here who can't accept other peoples point of view, then try to bore them to death/bamboozle them with waffle.
You're trying to tell me black is white. People don't want to start at the bottom, on unskilled low paid work, young or not. That's a fact. If you don't like it, tough.
Anyway, I think Bionic needs something constructive and positive to occupy his mind instead of constantly posting boring negative stuff.
Lizzie is a prime example of someone who can't accept different thoughts from her own, probably due to insecurity.
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::) interesting debate..
but I dont see anyone offering a real solution.. still trying to solve the problems in a system that already create it ;D :D
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I didn't bother reading all three of your long boring posts. There's too many people on here who can't accept other peoples point of view, then try to bore them to death/bamboozle them with waffle.
You're trying to tell me black is white. People don't want to start at the bottom, on unskilled low paid work, young or not. That's a fact. If you don't like it, tough.
Anyway, I think Bionic needs something constructive and positive to occupy his mind instead of constantly posting boring negative stuff.
Lizzie is a prime example of someone who can't accept different thoughts from her own, probably due to insecurity.
Maybe we could start a Omega Owners knitting club :D :D :y
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I didn't bother reading all three of your long boring posts. There's too many people on here who can't accept other peoples point of view, then try to bore them to death/bamboozle them with waffle.
You're trying to tell me black is white. People don't want to start at the bottom, on unskilled low paid work, young or not. That's a fact. If you don't like it, tough.
Anyway, I think Bionic needs something constructive and positive to occupy his mind instead of constantly posting boring negative stuff.
Lizzie is a prime example of someone who can't accept different thoughts from her own, probably due to insecurity.
What the hell are you on about! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
It is easy; if you are not interested in the subjects posted, and the following conversations, then just do not read them. But do not become objectionable with members on here who like to discuss involved and detailed debate. >:(
To those with an once of intelligence it is not a case of trying "to bore them to death/bamboozle them with waffle".
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I didn't bother reading all three of your long boring posts. There's too many people on here who can't accept other peoples point of view, then try to bore them to death/bamboozle them with waffle.
You're trying to tell me black is white. People don't want to start at the bottom, on unskilled low paid work, young or not. That's a fact. If you don't like it, tough.
Anyway, I think Bionic needs something constructive and positive to occupy his mind instead of constantly posting boring negative stuff.
Lizzie is a prime example of someone who can't accept different thoughts from her own, probably due to insecurity.
..........and what's more you have proved the point that if you do not read "long boring posts" you can never really grasp what others are saying.
As for me suffering from insecurity; how you do not know me!! :P :P :P :P
In fact I think it is you who has a problem with insecurity, as you do not like other people talking to each other and expressing points of view. How very sad. >:(
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I didn't bother reading all three of your long boring posts. There's too many people on here who can't accept other peoples point of view, then try to bore them to death/bamboozle them with waffle.
You're trying to tell me black is white. People don't want to start at the bottom, on unskilled low paid work, young or not. That's a fact. If you don't like it, tough.
Anyway, I think Bionic needs something constructive and positive to occupy his mind instead of constantly posting boring negative stuff.
Lizzie is a prime example of someone who can't accept different thoughts from her own, probably due to insecurity.
There's no need to get nasty Geoffery just because some people have a different opinion to you.... ::)
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Yep, if you couldn't be bothered to read the "boring" posts why bother to reply to the thread at all? :-\
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Who's being nasty? That's not nasty. My OOF handle is geoffr70, not Geoffery, which is Geoffrey incorrectly spelt, which isn't even my name.
Well old Liz, you caught that line now I'm reeling you in. Predictable really. You're so wrapped up in your own thoughts you can't see beyond your nose. I have a life and don't need to spend all day everyday on here nit picking and trying to force my opinion onto others. The suggestion to start an OOF knitting club might be a good idea because there's a growing number on here who are downright boring old farts (even the younger ones). So picky and pedantic, picking fault, criticising, not trying to help people but sniping instead, preaching, trying to force their opinion onto other people, not accepting others views, speaking down to people. It's evident in the amount of new people who join, ask for help, and then don't stick round long. I'm not the only one who thinks that either.
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Who's being nasty? That's not nasty. My OOF handle is geoffr70, not Geoffery, which is Geoffrey incorrectly spelt, which isn't even my name.
Well old Liz, you caught that line now I'm reeling you in. Predictable really. You're so wrapped up in your own thoughts you can't see beyond your nose. I have a life and don't need to spend all day everyday on here nit picking and trying to force my opinion onto others. The suggestion to start an OOF knitting club might be a good idea because there's a growing number on here who are downright boring old farts (even the younger ones). So picky and pedantic, picking fault, criticising, not trying to help people but sniping instead, preaching, trying to force their opinion onto other people, not accepting others views, speaking down to people. It's evident in the amount of new people who join, ask for help, and then don't stick round long. I'm not the only one who thinks that either.
Ha well I guess you're just having a bad day geoffr70... Never mind we all have them sometimes..... ::)
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Well you prove my point as well, being sarcastic and referring to me by what you thought was my full first name 'Geoffrey', instead of 'Geoff', like a parent or teacher would when telling off a child. Why? Because you don't like what I have to say. Why? Insecurity.
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For the record, I have never said that I don't like what you have to say. That is what you have said. I disagree with parts of what you have to say, although some of your opinions I agree with.
It's become clear to all that you disagree with what I and some others have had to say which is absolutely fine by me, it's called debating and if you cannot contribute without insulting people then I suggest you don't bother! :)
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Now now. ;D
I suppose if a thread even starts in such a negative frame as this one, there is nowhere left to go but insults... I suppose. Maybe? :-\
Maybe raise the mind set and it'll take a bit longer to turn into a cat fight? Difficult though, has to be said.
So there ya go Bio. Raise the game. ;)
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Now now. ;D
I suppose if a thread even starts in such a negative frame as this one, there is nowhere left to go but insults... I suppose. Maybe? :-\
Maybe raise the mind set and it'll take a bit longer to turn into a cat fight? Difficult though, has to be said.
So there ya go Bio. Raise the game. ;)
the original thread post explains the self opinion of a member.. doesnt tell anyone to insult others..
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Who's being nasty? That's not nasty. My OOF handle is geoffr70, not Geoffery, which is Geoffrey incorrectly spelt, which isn't even my name.
Well old Liz, you caught that line now I'm reeling you in. Predictable really. You're so wrapped up in your own thoughts you can't see beyond your nose. I have a life and don't need to spend all day everyday on here nit picking and trying to force my opinion onto others. The suggestion to start an OOF knitting club might be a good idea because there's a growing number on here who are downright boring old farts (even the younger ones). So picky and pedantic, picking fault, criticising, not trying to help people but sniping instead, preaching, trying to force their opinion onto other people, not accepting others views, speaking down to people. It's evident in the amount of new people who join, ask for help, and then don't stick round long. I'm not the only one who thinks that either.
Ah, right! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Do you know you are not worth debating with, as all you can give in constructive thought are insults! As for what I do with my life........if you do not read the threads, and read between the lines, you will never know! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)