Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Rods2 on 18 January 2013, 21:19:08
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In the Ukraine if there is snow then you have to use winter tyres. If you get caught with summer tyres you have to pay a
bribe fine.
When we have snow like today should the same apply, so those with winter tyre can get from A to B safely in a timely manner and not get delayed by those stuck on summer tyres or worse hit by an out of control car, van or lorry?
Winter tyres are meant to be beneficial once temperature are below 7degC with shorter stopping distance, so should they be made compulsory from the end of October to the begging of March, like the EU would like to?
I have set up a week long poll for your thoughts.
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end of october to march.. we pay lots of money to run those cars, for fuel , for repair, tax etc.. but when it comes to paying for tyres everyones lost from horizon ;D here it is compulsory for commercial vehicles and next year probably will be compulsory for all..
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Even though I got stuck today (in Astra) I still cannot see that we have enough bad weather to justify it. Just my opinion of course :y
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Nope. Tyres are completely irrelevant to the majority of drivers who simply don't have the first idea how to cope with the conditions, so shouldn't be on the road in them, snow tyres or not.
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no they shouldnt it costs enough to keep a car onthe road as it is
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No. Utter pointless notion.
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Tossers in BMW's with illigal blacked out windows and the mental age of 12 will crash and cause mayhem regardless of what tyres are fitted. 2 tons of metal at 60MPH will not stop any quicker with Winter tyres when the road is covered in snow and black ice.
:(
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No, the roads up here are all clear, we have not had any new snow today or last night, so we have had snow for only 2 or 3 days, no ice to speak of on the main roads either.... :)
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Nope. Tyres are completely irrelevant to the majority of drivers who simply don't have the first idea how to cope with the conditions, so shouldn't be on the road in them, snow tyres or not.
Spot on :y
I've driven around for 24 hours on the crappiest plastic tyres in the world that were worn to 2mm (max) on the rear of my car and I've had no issues at all, passing stranded 4x4's as well as numerous WWD PooBoxes because I was prepared and had the appropriate things in the back of the car :y
OK, it was "interesting" at times and they were shockingly slippery in the snow but I managed "The wrong type of car for snow" ::)
When I was working recovery we still had to get out to people, especially if there was an RTA/danger, and the slideback lorries have absolutely zero weight over the rear (drive) axle ;)
What would be far more beneficial would be to put a skid pan course with a test) in as part of learning to drive so that people actually learn how to deal with it ;)
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No, the roads up here are all clear, we have not had any new snow today or last night, so we have had snow for only 2 or 3 days, no ice to speak of on the main roads either.... :)
Perhaps the answer is for everyone to buy a Jeep then :-X :P ::)
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No, the roads up here are all clear, we have not had any new snow today or last night, so we have had snow for only 2 or 3 days, no ice to speak of on the main roads either.... :)
Perhaps the answer is for everyone to buy a Jeep then :-X :P ::)
Who asked your opinion 'Junior'............. :P :P :P :D :-*
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No, the roads up here are all clear, we have not had any new snow today or last night, so we have had snow for only 2 or 3 days, no ice to speak of on the main roads either.... :)
Perhaps the answer is for everyone to buy a Jeep then :-X :P ::)
Who asked your opinion 'Junior'............. :P :P :P :D :-*
At least it's no Newbie any more ::) ::)
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Nope. Tyres are completely irrelevant to the majority of drivers who simply don't have the first idea how to cope with the conditions, so shouldn't be on the road in them, snow tyres or not.
Spot on :y
I've driven around for 24 hours on the crappiest plastic tyres in the world that were worn to 2mm (max) on the rear of my car and I've had no issues at all, passing stranded 4x4's as well as numerous WWD PooBoxes because I was prepared and had the appropriate things in the back of the car :y
OK, it was "interesting" at times and they were shockingly slippery in the snow but I managed "The wrong type of car for snow" ::)
When I was working recovery we still had to get out to people, especially if there was an RTA/danger, and the slideback lorries have absolutely zero weight over the rear (drive) axle ;)
What would be far more beneficial would be to put a skid pan course with a test) in as part of learning to drive so that people actually learn how to deal with it ;)
and you have short braking distance too :D ;D :y
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Nope. Tyres are completely irrelevant to the majority of drivers who simply don't have the first idea how to cope with the conditions, so shouldn't be on the road in them, snow tyres or not.
Spot on :y
I've driven around for 24 hours on the crappiest plastic tyres in the world that were worn to 2mm (max) on the rear of my car and I've had no issues at all, passing stranded 4x4's as well as numerous WWD PooBoxes because I was prepared and had the appropriate things in the back of the car :y
OK, it was "interesting" at times and they were shockingly slippery in the snow but I managed "The wrong type of car for snow" ::)
When I was working recovery we still had to get out to people, especially if there was an RTA/danger, and the slideback lorries have absolutely zero weight over the rear (drive) axle ;)
What would be far more beneficial would be to put a skid pan course with a test) in as part of learning to drive so that people actually learn how to deal with it ;)
and you have short braking distance too :D ;D :y
Minimal difference to braking distance Cem... Rear axle does very little braking ;)
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Nope. Tyres are completely irrelevant to the majority of drivers who simply don't have the first idea how to cope with the conditions, so shouldn't be on the road in them, snow tyres or not.
Spot on :y
I've driven around for 24 hours on the crappiest plastic tyres in the world that were worn to 2mm (max) on the rear of my car and I've had no issues at all, passing stranded 4x4's as well as numerous WWD PooBoxes because I was prepared and had the appropriate things in the back of the car :y
OK, it was "interesting" at times and they were shockingly slippery in the snow but I managed "The wrong type of car for snow" ::)
When I was working recovery we still had to get out to people, especially if there was an RTA/danger, and the slideback lorries have absolutely zero weight over the rear (drive) axle ;)
What would be far more beneficial would be to put a skid pan course with a test) in as part of learning to drive so that people actually learn how to deal with it ;)
and you have short braking distance too :D ;D :y
Minimal difference to braking distance Cem... Rear axle does very little braking ;)
the distance can vary from %25 to %50 :-\ depending on the tyres conditions..
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Nope. Tyres are completely irrelevant to the majority of drivers who simply don't have the first idea how to cope with the conditions, so shouldn't be on the road in them, snow tyres or not.
Spot on :y
I've driven around for 24 hours on the crappiest plastic tyres in the world that were worn to 2mm (max) on the rear of my car and I've had no issues at all, passing stranded 4x4's as well as numerous WWD PooBoxes because I was prepared and had the appropriate things in the back of the car :y
OK, it was "interesting" at times and they were shockingly slippery in the snow but I managed "The wrong type of car for snow" ::)
When I was working recovery we still had to get out to people, especially if there was an RTA/danger, and the slideback lorries have absolutely zero weight over the rear (drive) axle ;)
What would be far more beneficial would be to put a skid pan course with a test) in as part of learning to drive so that people actually learn how to deal with it ;)
and you have short braking distance too :D ;D :y
Minimal difference to braking distance Cem... Rear axle does very little braking ;)
the distance can vary from %25 to %50 :-\ depending on the tyres conditions..
Agreed... But you missed my point. I had almost new tyres on the front, where the majority of the braking effort is, and the cheap and knackered crap on the back where there is little braking effort in comparison ;)
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And anyway... Awareness of the surroundings and other road users mean you don't need to brake as much ;) And I'm still here and the car's in one piece :y
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Nope. Tyres are completely irrelevant to the majority of drivers who simply don't have the first idea how to cope with the conditions, so shouldn't be on the road in them, snow tyres or not.
Spot on :y
I've driven around for 24 hours on the crappiest plastic tyres in the world that were worn to 2mm (max) on the rear of my car and I've had no issues at all, passing stranded 4x4's as well as numerous WWD PooBoxes because I was prepared and had the appropriate things in the back of the car :y
OK, it was "interesting" at times and they were shockingly slippery in the snow but I managed "The wrong type of car for snow" ::)
When I was working recovery we still had to get out to people, especially if there was an RTA/danger, and the slideback lorries have absolutely zero weight over the rear (drive) axle ;)
What would be far more beneficial would be to put a skid pan course with a test) in as part of learning to drive so that people actually learn how to deal with it ;)
and you have short braking distance too :D ;D :y
Minimal difference to braking distance Cem... Rear axle does very little braking ;)
the distance can vary from %25 to %50 :-\ depending on the tyres conditions..
Agreed... But you missed my point. I had almost new tyres on the front, where the majority of the braking effort is, and the cheap and knackered crap on the back where there is little braking effort in comparison ;)
ok then.. :y
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Understanding the limits of your vehicle, understanding and experience in different weather conditions, situation awareness and defensive driving are worth IMHO worth much more than winter tyres, ABS etc.
When I used to ride bikes in snow and ice, it was always back wheel braking, you can fish tail down the road but lose the front end and you knew you were going to be dumped in the road. Today I was round my neighbours when the news was on and watching the muppets trying to drive in the snow was comical and also depressing. They don't understand rolling friction is much less than static friction.
So start off gently in a high gear, if on a hill without LSD a small amount of handbrake on a RWD car can help etc. In wet and slippery conditions fast driving is all about smooth driving to keep static friction in charge.
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Understanding the limits of your vehicle, understanding and experience in different weather conditions, situation awareness and defensive driving are worth IMHO worth much more than winter tyres, ABS etc.
When I used to ride bikes in snow and ice, it was always back wheel braking, you can fish tail down the road but lose the front end and you knew you were going to be dumped in the road. Today I was round my neighbours when the news was on and watching the muppets trying to drive in the snow was comical and also depressing. They don't understand rolling friction is much less than static friction.
So start off gently in a high gear, if on a hill without LSD a small amount of handbrake on a RWD car can help etc. In wet and slippery conditions fast driving is all about smooth driving to keep static friction in charge.
Another benefit on an Auto, start off with no throttle and the car will begin to creep at walking pace, take if from there....... :y :y
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A poor worker always blames his tools :y
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Yep, so take a completely inappropriate tool and put your winter tyres on it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iXVYFmnJmno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iXVYFmnJmno)
;D
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Too much reliance on modern electrickery to do it for them. You also have to remember that the vast majority of cars are FWD these days & most drivers on the road have never driven a RWD car. :y
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Nope. Tyres are completely irrelevant to the majority of drivers who simply don't have the first idea how to cope with the conditions, so shouldn't be on the road in them, snow tyres or not.
Don't agree at all. Saw a few clips on BBC of cars (FWD) unable to climb very slight gradients. Winter tyres would have seen them complete their journey. Yes, of course, you have to drive according to conditions too.
Also, I do find is odd that, not you necessarily, but some, judge whether winter tyres should be used or not, having no experience driving on them. How can anybody judge without experience? And the comparison with summers.
My option for voting wasn't available, although I voted October to March compulsory. Luxembourg state from October to March, if weather conditions are bad. I.e. If October temperatures are still deg or so, no need yet.
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Yep, so take a completely inappropriate tool and put your winter tyres on it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iXVYFmnJmno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iXVYFmnJmno)
;D
So what are you saying...wear a woolly hat or catch pneumonia!!!!! ;D
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Yep, so take a completely inappropriate tool and put your winter tyres on it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iXVYFmnJmno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iXVYFmnJmno)
;D
So what are you saying...wear a woolly hat or catch pneumonia!!!!! ;D
No, old (Style) car, put on 135 tyres on and cut through the snow like we used to do............ :D :D :D
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Furthermore, we had 7 /8 cm of snow the other night. Life just carries on as normal - a little slower but normal. And as Rod2 said, winter tyres are designed to operate best at 7 deg abduction below. So they are not just snow tyres. And the whole cost issue is crap . Although I have said it before. One off investment. Tyres And 4 wheels. The key is they are more effective in low temperature conditions. Perhaps we should call them low temperature tyres
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No! No! No! Simple! ;)
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I'm still here and the car's in one piece :y
I take it you now have four working, matching tyres then ;D
Driving a wwd transit tonight, nearly playful, but not as much fun as the Omega in the snow :-\
The 3 rules of winter driving are, in no particular order:
1. Know your limits.
2. Know the cars limits.
3. Drive to the conditions.
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I do Al yes. 2 new Enduro's fitted this afternoon for about £127 :y
The difference between them and the no-grips was phenomenal!! Although the no-grips were well worn so not a completely fair comparison :-X ::)
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Credit where it's due, those nogrips are spectacularly shocking from new ::)
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Using my alter ego here to try to avoid some abuse but here goes. I think some of you are being a bit riteous here. One day it will be your turn to get stuck and no amount of "experience" or "knowledge" will get you out of it. It only takes a small problem and with many others around you looking at you and it is all to easy to become flustered and further the problem.
Good luck for the future.
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Yes when the roads are covered in snow or at least make carrying/using snow chains/socks compulsory. I did a cambelt for a lad that drove from Switzerland when we had the -13 temperatures a few years ago. This country had come to a standstill and he made it over with his mate and their other halves, all he had done it fit his steel wheels with winter tyres. Oh and look at how Sweden, Norway and Finland cope with snow, it's not a issue for them
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Using my alter ego here to try to avoid some abuse but here goes. I think some of you are being a bit riteous here. One day it will be your turn to get stuck and no amount of "experience" or "knowledge" will get you out of it. It only takes a small problem and with many others around you looking at you and it is all to easy to become flustered and further the problem.
Good luck for the future.
yep.. :y :y :y
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Using my alter ego here to try to avoid some abuse but here goes. I think some of you are being a bit riteous here. One day it will be your turn to get stuck and no amount of "experience" or "knowledge" will get you out of it. It only takes a small problem and with many others around you looking at you and it is all to easy to become flustered and further the problem.
Good luck for the future.
+1 :y
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Yep, so take a completely inappropriate tool and put your winter tyres on it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iXVYFmnJmno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iXVYFmnJmno)
;D
He has significantly bigger balls than I do, I reckon! :o
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Using my alter ego here to try to avoid some abuse but here goes. I think some of you are being a bit riteous here. One day it will be your turn to get stuck and no amount of "experience" or "knowledge" will get you out of it. It only takes a small problem and with many others around you looking at you and it is all to easy to become flustered and further the problem.
Good luck for the future.
+1 :y
why is it so difficult for eastern europeans to understand , that we don't get east European weather?
...well, apart from what looks like 3 days of snow ;D
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Understanding the limits of your vehicle, understanding and experience in different weather conditions, situation awareness and defensive driving are worth IMHO worth much more than winter tyres, ABS etc.
When I used to ride bikes in snow and ice, it was always back wheel braking, you can fish tail down the road but lose the front end and you knew you were going to be dumped in the road. Today I was round my neighbours when the news was on and watching the muppets trying to drive in the snow was comical and also depressing. They don't understand rolling friction is much less than static friction.
So start off gently in a high gear, if on a hill without LSD a small amount of handbrake on a RWD car can help etc. In wet and slippery conditions fast driving is all about smooth driving to keep static friction in charge.
Maybe after a few winters in The Ukraine, you'll think differently. Yes, awareness, understanding your vehicle and driving appropriately are all critical - I am never arguing against that - but if summer tyres don't grip, they don't grip. It's as simple as that. I have had many experiences in FWD and RWD, summer tyres, winter tyres, fresh snow, slush .......... and know the differences.
After snow here, people generally don't potter along at 15mph on a motorway. No, they don't do 80mph either, but life does carry on. No big dramas, hours and hours of news reel about the weather etc.
As said in a previous post, how do the Danes, Swedes, Norwegians etc carry on?
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Using my alter ego here to try to avoid some abuse but here goes. I think some of you are being a bit riteous here. One day it will be your turn to get stuck and no amount of "experience" or "knowledge" will get you out of it. It only takes a small problem and with many others around you looking at you and it is all to easy to become flustered and further the problem.
Good luck for the future.
+1 :y
why is it so difficult for eastern europeans to understand , that we don't get east European weather?
...well, apart from what looks like 3 days of snow ;D
Winter tyres are far more effective when the temperature is 7 deg or less. Therefore, winter tyres aren't just about driving on snow. Why is that so difficult for UK residents to understand ;)
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Using my alter ego here to try to avoid some abuse but here goes. I think some of you are being a bit riteous here. One day it will be your turn to get stuck and no amount of "experience" or "knowledge" will get you out of it. It only takes a small problem and with many others around you looking at you and it is all to easy to become flustered and further the problem.
Good luck for the future.
+1 :y
why is it so difficult for eastern europeans to understand , that we don't get east European weather?
...well, apart from what looks like 3 days of snow ;D
Winter tyres are far more effective when the temperature is 7 deg or less. Therefore, winter tyres aren't just about driving on snow. Why is that so difficult for UK residents to understand ;)
I have the answer! Because most UK residents haven't had the experience of driving on winter tyres, so are in no place to judge
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I think we should be made to use winter tyres, but enforcement is going to be difficult. Remember, winter tyres aren't just for snow.
However, like 4x4's, I think winter tyres have one big, huge drawback - they lull people into a false sense of security, and this is when bigger accidents happen.
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Using my alter ego here to try to avoid some abuse but here goes. I think some of you are being a bit riteous here. One day it will be your turn to get stuck and no amount of "experience" or "knowledge" will get you out of it. It only takes a small problem and with many others around you looking at you and it is all to easy to become flustered and further the problem.
Good luck for the future.
+1 :y
why is it so difficult for eastern europeans to understand , that we don't get east European weather?
...well, apart from what looks like 3 days of snow ;D
Winter tyres are far more effective when the temperature is 7 deg or less. Therefore, winter tyres aren't just about driving on snow. Why is that so difficult for UK residents to understand ;)
I have the answer! Because most UK residents haven't had the experience of driving on winter tyres, so are in no place to judge
and why don't we have the experience?
I have the answer too. IT'S BECAUSE WE DON'T GET THE WEATHER. :)
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Remember, winter tyres aren't just for snow.
Maybe so, but summer tyres of decent quality cope perfectly well in the winter above zero.
Unless to snows, which being generous is only a week of the year in this country, summer tyres are fine.
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Remember, winter tyres aren't just for snow.
Maybe so, but summer tyres of decent quality cope perfectly well in the winter above zero.
Unless to snows, which being generous is only a week of the year in this country, summer tyres are fine.
Winter tyres tend to work better than summers once down to about +5C... ...which we do have lots of. Some summer tyres start to really go off when approaching 0C.
So, without doubt, and I know you'll agree, at cold temps, winter tyres work best. So, on that basis, I think using winter tyres for the winter months here is a good idea. Though unenforcable, and in many cases, impractical due to our UK insurance companies not understanding the concept.
When it comes to snow and ice, narrower tyres work better. Although we don't really have enough snow to worry about this.
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Remember, winter tyres aren't just for snow.
Maybe so, but summer tyres of decent quality cope perfectly well in the winter above zero.
Unless to snows, which being generous is only a week of the year in this country, summer tyres are fine.
Agreed. :y I was driving on track day tyres on Wednesday last week. Absolutely no problem at all. ;)
It is only occasional snow and ice that present remotely hazardous driving conditions for summer tyres in this country, and, even then, the ability of all drivers to drive sensibly according to the conditions would make a much bigger impact than the type of rubber on the road. In addition, we have 3 cars, and only the Omega ever gets used in snow and ice, despite the other 2 being used all year round. Am I expected to buy 3 sets of winter tyres, and store them all summer? Nope. It will never fly.
We are a country where nobody even bothers to change a bulb on their car until it's picked up at an annual MOT. Nobody is interested in making their car or their driving safe. It doesn't get a second thought. Most just jump in a car and drive off with a fag in one hand and/or a mobile phone clamped to their ear. Not a though to the air in the tyres, the frost on the windows or the weather conditions. Winter tyres would be the icing on a cake that's yet to be baked IMHO.
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A Norway story
We went to Norway Skiing, we were taken from Dagley airport (a runway on a frozen lake) with a wooden hut staffed by two personnel (ground control/customes/baggage handlers) to the ski resort. We sat at the front upstairs of the bus. The suitcases were in a trailer half the size of the bus towed behind. We went along a winter wonderland of roads covered in snow. Some fresh and some compacted. Not a sign of grit anywhere. I was impressed that the bus got up and down the hills and corners with no fuss whatsover and at a good speed. I remember telling Mrs V that the Scandinavians all have winter tyres with STUDS. I had actually seen a car at the airport with some. When we got off I had a close look at the bus tyres. NOT a single one had any studs, snow chains whatsover. Very impressive skillful driving. I now suspect they were winter tyres but they looked no different from normal.
Britain doesn't get enough bad weather to make the use of winter tyres compulsary. Maybe education would help but can you educate Pork? People who live in susceptible parts of the country ought to make arrangements. In 1974 we had a pair of wheels with SP44s? on them for my Mum's Mini.
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Remember, winter tyres aren't just for snow.
Maybe so, but summer tyres of decent quality cope perfectly well in the winter above zero.
Unless to snows, which being generous is only a week of the year in this country, summer tyres are fine.
Winter tyres tend to work better than summers once down to about +5C... ...which we do have lots of. Some summer tyres start to really go off when approaching 0C.
So, without doubt, and I know you'll agree, at cold temps, winter tyres work best. So, on that basis, I think using winter tyres for the winter months here is a good idea. Though unenforcable, and in many cases, impractical due to our UK insurance companies not understanding the concept.
When it comes to snow and ice, narrower tyres work better. Although we don't really have enough snow to worry about this.
I have no experience of winter tyres. I accept there may be a performance advantage below 5c or is it 7c being mooted by the manufactures. "MAY". I'm suspscious of such advertising personally, but softer compounds and greater number of slotted tread blocks makes sense to me. There may be a slight advantage in grip just above zero. IF quality winter tyres are used.
But let's take into account the weather we've had in the last month. Prior to this cold snap it was 13c in the Thames valley area for two weeks or so prior. It was exceptionally mild.
What are we to do there? Destroy winter tyres for the vast majority of the winter, so when it does snow they are cabbages anyway? Because its been made "compulsory" by some bell end in middle Europe?
Or swap wheels every fortnight according to the jet stream on the off chance it might actually snow, or drop to 3c.
Or let's do what actually do now, ride the 1 week of bad weather out with tyres that suit the other 51 weeks of the year, re snow. And 49 weeks of the year re temp.
Don't get me wrong, if I thought there was an advantage to be had for the money,I'd have it tomorrow. I'm sure you'd agree with that.
Fact is, for southerners of this isle certainly, there's no call for winter tyres, and the related cost of extra set wheels and fitting for two weeks of cold weather with 1 week of snow thrown in, on average. That's just daft!
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I think we should be made to use winter tyres, but enforcement is going to be difficult. Remember, winter tyres aren't just for snow.
However, like 4x4's, I think winter tyres have one big, huge drawback - they lull people into a false sense of security, and this is when bigger accidents happen.
Agreed. :y
From our house we have a slope up to the main road. When it snows heavy, a guy who lives near to us can't get up the slope in his Range Rover Vogue as he has massive bling alloys on it. Several times over the years my son has gone around him when the guy is stuck, stopped in front of the guys Range Rover and hooked a sling to the Range Rover and towed it up the slope. The guy is quite embarrassed about this but it's because of his choice of wheels and tyres. My sons truck is fitted with mud, snow and ice tyres and seems to cope very well, driven sensibly of course. :y
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Perhaps we are looking at this from the wrong angle.
Tyre manufacturers could make a general purpose tyre suitable for the extremes of British weather but perhaps lacking in performance. Once fitted the driver is expected to maintain proper distances as the braking lengths maybe not as good. They would have to display a sign saying AWT fitted and thus wouldn't be allowed to tailgate or dive in at the last minute when three lanes go into one etc). Enthusiasts might have a set of "summer tyres" that they fit to get the most out of their car (country roads, last minute braking, track days etc). Problem solved.
NB we could call the tyres knobblies!
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Perhaps we are looking at this from the wrong angle.
Tyre manufacturers could make a general purpose tyre suitable for the extremes of British weather but perhaps lacking in performance. Once fitted the driver is expected to maintain proper distances as the braking lengths maybe not as good. They would have to display a sign saying AWT fitted and thus wouldn't be allowed to tailgate or dive in at the last minute when three lanes go into one etc). Enthusiasts might have a set of "summer tyres" that they fit to get the most out of their car (country roads, last minute braking, track days etc). Problem solved.
NB we could call the tyres knobblies!
all purpose tyres by default are compromised in all areas. Ie, they are Shite at everything. That I do have experience of.
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But as most people buy plastic tyres, because they are round, and need an MOT, most cars out there are on tyres not suitable for summer, let alone winter...
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But as most people buy plastic tyres, because they are round, and need an MOT, most cars out there are on tyres not suitable for summer, let alone winter...
They'd be better banning the 57 varitys IMO. Then we 'd have a better match to the conditions, on average.
And what's to stop the same drivers buying the same quality winter tyres? Equally hopeless.
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Chris. I think you have missed my point (even though it was somewhat tongue in cheek). Tyre manufactures are currently driven by price, dry weather perfomance, mpg from lower rolling resistance. My point is that if winter tyre perfomance is such a problem then they ought to develop a better tyre for overall use. No one really wants two sets of wheels and the expense involved, storage and the hassle of paying someone to change them.
If tyre quality is an issue then that ought to be addressed by legislation.
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Sigh... I agree fully. IF tyre performance is an issue.
The point your missing again is, it isn't in the uk. And cirtainly isnt is Spain. ;D
Take this further, it's like the population of Spain demanding the population of Norway have summer tyres all year, because the weather in Spain doesn't warrant winter tyres!
If you choose to live up a mountain in Spain, your now asking the whole country to be forced to buy winter tyres! .... Because that's the mentality we're talking about.
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At the top of the page4 I said "Britain doesn't get enough bad weather to make the use of winter tyres compulsary. Maybe education would help but can you educate Pork? People who live in susceptible parts of the country ought to make arrangements. In 1974 we had a pair of wheels with SP44s? on them for my Mum's Mini."
I agree with what you are saying. I voted No.
People in North Yorkshire, The Pennines,the Lake District and all of Scotland have managed for years. It is just Southerners(forum members excluded of course!) at the risk of inflaming those south of Watford Gap, who seem to have trouble at the laughably smallest amounts of snow.
The sad thing is that any legislation would have to cover the lowest common denominator i.e the dork.
-
Yep, so take a completely inappropriate tool and put your winter tyres on it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iXVYFmnJmno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iXVYFmnJmno)
;D
He has significantly bigger balls than I do, I reckon! :o
Sod that for a game of soldiers,he must have been bloody freezing :-X
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At the top of the page4 I said "Britain doesn't get enough bad weather to make the use of winter tyres compulsary. Maybe education would help but can you educate Pork? People who live in susceptible parts of the country ought to make arrangements. In 1974 we had a pair of wheels with SP44s? on them for my Mum's Mini."
I agree with what you are saying. I voted No.
People in North Yorkshire, The Pennines,the Lake District and all of Scotland have managed for years. It is just Southerners(forum members excluded of course!) at the risk of inflaming those south of Watford Gap, who seem to have trouble at the laughably smallest amounts of snow.
The sad thing is that any legislation would have to cover the lowest common denominator i.e the dork.
post 53 was in response to post 52. If there had been a post in between I would have quoted.
The legislation we are discussing revolves around enforcing winter tyres on the public. I missed the fact you appear to be talking about something else. I think? But detracting from summer tyre performance for a few rurals is not the way IMO. That was my point.
A tyre more orientated to mud and snow, is not going to improve summer tyre grip levels.
That was all.
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Having sold my winters to Tunnie. I took the car out last week when it wasnt snowing, but the temps were around 2 - 8 deg C. The difference in grip was significant. Where I could confidently pull out of a junction on the Dunlop 3D's, I was spinning the Conti Sport Contact 3's a lot. I have changed my driving style to compensate for the summer tyres. But the difference for me is like using a good quality summer tyre in summer vs some cheap Chinese crap. And the SC3's are very good summer tyres. Despite this I have to drive extra carefully even when there is no snow, but the temperatures are low or in cold wet weather.
It is not about snow. It is about the amount of grip that the tyres provide once the temps dip below 8 deg C IMO.
Feel free to save money and argue about the fact that we dont get Nordic weather in the UK. My feeling after using dedicated winter tyres for the last 3-4 years is that I would not be without them between Nov - March. But then that is based on my experience rather than supposition or conspiracy theories.
If I can get the additional grip for about £500 over 5 years then that is a small price to pay.
-
Having sold my winters to Tunnie. I took the car out last week when it wasnt snowing, but the temps were around 2 - 8 deg C. The difference in grip was significant. Where I could confidently pull out of a junction on the Dunlop 3D's, I was spinning the Conti Sport Contact 3's a lot. I have changed my driving style to compensate for the summer tyres. But the difference for me is like using a good quality summer tyre in summer vs some cheap Chinese crap. And the SC3's are very good summer tyres. Despite this I have to drive extra carefully even when there is no snow, but the temperatures are low or in cold wet weather.
It is not about snow. It is about the amount of grip that the tyres provide once the temps dip below 8 deg C IMO.
Feel free to save money and argue about the fact that we dont get Nordic weather in the UK. My feeling after using dedicated winter tyres for the last 3-4 years is that I would not be without them between Nov - March. But then that is based on my experience rather than supposition or conspiracy theories.
If I can get the additional grip for about £500 over 5 years then that is a small price to pay.
A minor point over stated somewhat? No?
And you'd have been better off with summer tyres for at least half that period on average. If not more.
Plus I'd be interested to know how your getting sc3 to spin up so easily at that temp. I really would. Because I can't get them to do that with a lower geared dif fitted. ?
-
Yep, so take a completely inappropriate tool and put your winter tyres on it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iXVYFmnJmno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iXVYFmnJmno)
;D
Fantastically controlled though :y :y
Perhaps you should ask him for a lesson Kev :-X :-X ::) ::) ;D ;D
-
I would add though, sc3 really are shit in snow. As cem would probably remind me. ;D
.....So I'm surprised your without them (winter tyres) this week D?
-
Yep, so take a completely inappropriate tool and put your winter tyres on it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iXVYFmnJmno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iXVYFmnJmno)
;D
Fantastically controlled though :y :y
Perhaps you should ask him for a lesson Kev :-X :-X ::) ::) ;D ;D
Does Mr Wood have post culling powers?,just asking ::)
-
But as most people buy plastic tyres, because they are round, and need an MOT, most cars out there are on tyres not suitable for summer, let alone winter...
They'd be better banning the 57 varitys IMO. Then we 'd have a better match to the conditions, on average.
And what's to stop the same drivers buying the same quality winter tyres? Equally hopeless.
Trouble is, we know a premium tyre, such as SC3 has awful braking performance in wintry conditions (SC5 is a bit better, BTW), so the point I would suggest some budget summer tyres perform better in snow.
And to quote your good self from an earlier post, a general purpose tyre is poor at everything.
I haven't voted, as I don't think it should be enforced (its not enforcible anyway), but I think people should be educated enough to be able to make a decision - and that includes on summer tyres as well. But the industry is heading the wrong way, at the beck and call of the greenie morons.
I would use winter tyres, but last time I ran up my insurance about it (2 or 3 years ago), they were not happy about it.
-
I would add though, sc3 really are shit in snow. As cem would probably remind me. ;D
.....So I'm surprised your without them (winter tyres) this week D?
I was under the impression that D had multiple sets, hence selling one? Maybe for other cars.
I know when tunnie came round on Monday (about 1" of snow here then), he was please with the extra grip.... ....not sure what junk he had on previously though.
-
"so the point I would suggest some budget summer tyres perform better in snow..."
Might I point the honourable admin in the direction of a set of... ::)
-
But as most people buy plastic tyres, because they are round, and need an MOT, most cars out there are on tyres not suitable for summer, let alone winter...
They'd be better banning the 57 varitys IMO. Then we 'd have a better match to the conditions, on average.
And what's to stop the same drivers buying the same quality winter tyres? Equally hopeless.
Trouble is, we know a premium tyre, such as SC3 has awful braking performance in wintry conditions (SC5 is a bit better, BTW), so the point I would suggest some budget summer tyres perform better in snow.
And to quote your good self from an earlier post, a general purpose tyre is poor at everything.
I haven't voted, as I don't think it should be enforced (its not enforcible anyway), but I think people should be educated enough to be able to make a decision - and that includes on summer tyres as well. But the industry is heading the wrong way, at the beck and call of the greenie morons.
I would use winter tyres, but last time I ran up my insurance about it (2 or 3 years ago), they were not happy about it.
This sounds like your dim view of UK authorities speaking. Of course it is enforceable - well, as enforceable as any law is anyway.
Look how many countries enforce it successfully. It's just a mind-set and attitude change, which yes, takes some time but is doable. Here, Germany / Luxembourg region, it's the law. It's adhered to on the whole. Of course there are some who don't. Just like some people always break speed limits, drive with a little alcohol in their system, bla bla bla.
-
But as most people buy plastic tyres, because they are round, and need an MOT, most cars out there are on tyres not suitable for summer, let alone winter...
They'd be better banning the 57 varitys IMO. Then we 'd have a better match to the conditions, on average.
And what's to stop the same drivers buying the same quality winter tyres? Equally hopeless.
Trouble is, we know a premium tyre, such as SC3 has awful braking performance in wintry conditions (SC5 is a bit better, BTW), so the point I would suggest some budget summer tyres perform better in snow.
And to quote your good self from an earlier post, a general purpose tyre is poor at everything.
I haven't voted, as I don't think it should be enforced (its not enforcible anyway), but I think people should be educated enough to be able to make a decision - and that includes on summer tyres as well. But the industry is heading the wrong way, at the beck and call of the greenie morons.
I would use winter tyres, but last time I ran up my insurance about it (2 or 3 years ago), they were not happy about it.
This sounds like your dim view of UK authorities speaking. Of course it is enforceable - well, as enforceable as any law is anyway.
Look how many countries enforce it successfully. It's just a mind-set and attitude change, which yes, takes some time but is doable. Here, Germany / Luxembourg region, it's the law. It's adhered to on the whole. Of course there are some who don't. Just like some people always break speed limits, drive with a little alcohol in their system, bla bla bla.
To enforce it is going to need Plod, Wombles or Hobby Bobbys actually checking. Can't see how it could be done electronically. So not really viable here any more. IMHO anyway.
I think it would be more successful via education, than enforcement.
-
But as most people buy plastic tyres, because they are round, and need an MOT, most cars out there are on tyres not suitable for summer, let alone winter...
They'd be better banning the 57 varitys IMO. Then we 'd have a better match to the conditions, on average.
And what's to stop the same drivers buying the same quality winter tyres? Equally hopeless.
Trouble is, we know a premium tyre, such as SC3 has awful braking performance in wintry conditions (SC5 is a bit better, BTW), so the point I would suggest some budget summer tyres perform better in snow.
And to quote your good self from an earlier post, a general purpose tyre is poor at everything.
I haven't voted, as I don't think it should be enforced (its not enforcible anyway), but I think people should be educated enough to be able to make a decision - and that includes on summer tyres as well. But the industry is heading the wrong way, at the beck and call of the greenie morons.
I would use winter tyres, but last time I ran up my insurance about it (2 or 3 years ago), they were not happy about it.
This sounds like your dim view of UK authorities speaking. Of course it is enforceable - well, as enforceable as any law is anyway.
Look how many countries enforce it successfully. It's just a mind-set and attitude change, which yes, takes some time but is doable. Here, Germany / Luxembourg region, it's the law. It's adhered to on the whole. Of course there are some who don't. Just like some people always break speed limits, drive with a little alcohol in their system, bla bla bla.
To enforce it is going to need Plod, Wombles or Hobby Bobbys actually checking. Can't see how it could be done electronically. So not really viable here any more. IMHO anyway.
I think it would be more successful via education, than enforcement.
Absolutely. Education is the best way. That's a another long story though..............
-
to clarify some points , I want to share some of my experiences:
drawbacks for winter tyres
* increases consumption around %5 to %10 depending on avg speed..
* if you are going to make a red/green light drag you are a looser
* brakes/clutch wear/tear rate increase
* you need to purchase 4 ideally, which is not cheap..
* if you are living on a high degree hilly area you have chance only
when its not completely compacted/ice
*they have same speed ratings like summer tyres, but their wear rates
at high speeds are higher as expected but not that quickly
advantages for winter tyres
* forget about 7 celcius limit.. when the weather is below 15 celcius
they work/grip very well and dont wear quickly so that you can use
them at least 2-3 years (or more- I use them at least 4-5 years)
*they can be used whole cold season without installing them back and forth
unlike chains. and they dont damage drive train..
* your suits dont become dirty your hands dont freeze ;D
*unexpected frosts on bridges, valleys dont bite you unless you dont travel
at the speed of sound ;D
*and very important , you drive your car with confidence :)
* after their last year you can use them also in summer ;)
so if budget permits, I definitely recommend them :y
-
Having sold my winters to Tunnie. I took the car out last week when it wasnt snowing, but the temps were around 2 - 8 deg C. The difference in grip was significant. Where I could confidently pull out of a junction on the Dunlop 3D's, I was spinning the Conti Sport Contact 3's a lot. I have changed my driving style to compensate for the summer tyres. But the difference for me is like using a good quality summer tyre in summer vs some cheap Chinese crap. And the SC3's are very good summer tyres. Despite this I have to drive extra carefully even when there is no snow, but the temperatures are low or in cold wet weather.
It is not about snow. It is about the amount of grip that the tyres provide once the temps dip below 8 deg C IMO.
Feel free to save money and argue about the fact that we dont get Nordic weather in the UK. My feeling after using dedicated winter tyres for the last 3-4 years is that I would not be without them between Nov - March. But then that is based on my experience rather than supposition or conspiracy theories.
If I can get the additional grip for about £500 over 5 years then that is a small price to pay.
A minor point over stated somewhat? No?
And you'd have been better off with summer tyres for at least half that period on average. If not more.
Plus I'd be interested to know how your getting sc3 to spin up so easily at that temp. I really would. Because I can't get them to do that with a lower geared dif fitted. ?
I have 4 cars. We now live in a penthouse with no closed garage, only a carport. So nowhere to store all 4 sets. Hence getting rid of 2 sets, purely from a limited storage perspective. I plan to try some goodyear vector 4 seasons as a space saving experiment at some point.
How do they spin up? I dont know. I know they behave immaculately in warm weather. Yet TC is constantly lighting up when I try to accelerate rapidly. About 6mm tread left as well. And I have no vested interest in wasting money and time on a second set of tyres. Just my experience with them has been quite revealing. And yes, I didnt believe in winter tyres till I actually had the ba**s to listen to a friend and buy them.
-
to clarify some points , I want to share some of my experiences:
drawbacks for winter tyres
* increases consumption around %5 to %10 depending on avg speed..
* if you are going to make a red/green light drag you are a looser
* brakes/clutch wear/tear rate increase
* you need to purchase 4 ideally, which is not cheap..
* if you are living on a high degree hilly area you have chance only
when its not completely compacted/ice
*they have same speed ratings like summer tyres, but their wear rates
at high speeds are higher as expected but not that quickly
advantages for winter tyres
* forget about 7 celcius limit.. when the weather is below 15 celcius
they work/grip very well and dont wear quickly so that you can use
them at least 2-3 years (or more- I use them at least 4-5 years)
*they can be used whole cold season without installing them back and forth
unlike chains. and they dont damage drive train..
* your suits dont become dirty your hands dont freeze ;D
*unexpected frosts on bridges, valleys dont bite you unless you dont travel
at the speed of sound ;D
*and very important , you drive your car with confidence :)
* after their last year you can use them also in summer ;)
so if budget permits, I definitely recommend them :y
Why?
-
Sorry, thought I had wandered onto the Bus Thread........ :D :D
-
to clarify some points , I want to share some of my experiences:
drawbacks for winter tyres
* increases consumption around %5 to %10 depending on avg speed..
* if you are going to make a red/green light drag you are a looser
* brakes/clutch wear/tear rate increase
* you need to purchase 4 ideally, which is not cheap..
* if you are living on a high degree hilly area you have chance only
when its not completely compacted/ice
*they have same speed ratings like summer tyres, but their wear rates
at high speeds are higher as expected but not that quickly
advantages for winter tyres
* forget about 7 celcius limit.. when the weather is below 15 celcius
they work/grip very well and dont wear quickly so that you can use
them at least 2-3 years (or more- I use them at least 4-5 years)
*they can be used whole cold season without installing them back and forth
unlike chains. and they dont damage drive train..
* your suits dont become dirty your hands dont freeze ;D
*unexpected frosts on bridges, valleys dont bite you unless you dont travel
at the speed of sound ;D
*and very important , you drive your car with confidence :)
* after their last year you can use them also in summer ;)
so if budget permits, I definitely recommend them :y
Why?
physic rules, increased grip on tyres applies more force on clutch and brake pads
-
Having sold my winters to Tunnie. I took the car out last week when it wasnt snowing, but the temps were around 2 - 8 deg C. The difference in grip was significant. Where I could confidently pull out of a junction on the Dunlop 3D's, I was spinning the Conti Sport Contact 3's a lot. I have changed my driving style to compensate for the summer tyres. But the difference for me is like using a good quality summer tyre in summer vs some cheap Chinese crap. And the SC3's are very good summer tyres. Despite this I have to drive extra carefully even when there is no snow, but the temperatures are low or in cold wet weather.
It is not about snow. It is about the amount of grip that the tyres provide once the temps dip below 8 deg C IMO.
Feel free to save money and argue about the fact that we dont get Nordic weather in the UK. My feeling after using dedicated winter tyres for the last 3-4 years is that I would not be without them between Nov - March. But then that is based on my experience rather than supposition or conspiracy theories.
If I can get the additional grip for about £500 over 5 years then that is a small price to pay.
A minor point over stated somewhat? No?
And you'd have been better off with summer tyres for at least half that period on average. If not more.
Plus I'd be interested to know how your getting sc3 to spin up so easily at that temp. I really would. Because I can't get them to do that with a lower geared dif fitted. ?
I have 4 cars. We now live in a penthouse with no closed garage, only a carport. So nowhere to store all 4 sets. Hence getting rid of 2 sets, purely from a limited storage perspective. I plan to try some goodyear vector 4 seasons as a space saving experiment at some point.
How do they spin up? I dont know. I know they behave immaculately in warm weather. Yet TC is constantly lighting up when I try to accelerate rapidly. About 6mm tread left as well. And I have no vested interest in wasting money and time on a second set of tyres. Just my experience with them has been quite revealing. And yes, I didnt believe in winter tyres till I actually had the ba**s to listen to a friend and buy them.
thats a very good 4 season tyre and may well suit UK conditions.. only drawback may be a bit noisy in summer.. my friends tested them under snow and is really successful..
-
to clarify some points , I want to share some of my experiences:
drawbacks for winter tyres
* increases consumption around %5 to %10 depending on avg speed..
* if you are going to make a red/green light drag you are a looser
* brakes/clutch wear/tear rate increase
* you need to purchase 4 ideally, which is not cheap..
* if you are living on a high degree hilly area you have chance only
when its not completely compacted/ice
*they have same speed ratings like summer tyres, but their wear rates
at high speeds are higher as expected but not that quickly
advantages for winter tyres
* forget about 7 celcius limit.. when the weather is below 15 celcius
they work/grip very well and dont wear quickly so that you can use
them at least 2-3 years (or more- I use them at least 4-5 years)
*they can be used whole cold season without installing them back and forth
unlike chains. and they dont damage drive train..
* your suits dont become dirty your hands dont freeze ;D
*unexpected frosts on bridges, valleys dont bite you unless you dont travel
at the speed of sound ;D
*and very important , you drive your car with confidence :)
* after their last year you can use them also in summer ;)
so if budget permits, I definitely recommend them :y
Why?
physic rules, increased grip on tyres applies more force on clutch and brake pads
Ah ok. So really minimal then. No different to driving in a dry summer with good quality summer tyres.
-
to clarify some points , I want to share some of my experiences:
drawbacks for winter tyres
* increases consumption around %5 to %10 depending on avg speed..
* if you are going to make a red/green light drag you are a looser
* brakes/clutch wear/tear rate increase
* you need to purchase 4 ideally, which is not cheap..
* if you are living on a high degree hilly area you have chance only
when its not completely compacted/ice
*they have same speed ratings like summer tyres, but their wear rates
at high speeds are higher as expected but not that quickly
advantages for winter tyres
* forget about 7 celcius limit.. when the weather is below 15 celcius
they work/grip very well and dont wear quickly so that you can use
them at least 2-3 years (or more- I use them at least 4-5 years)
*they can be used whole cold season without installing them back and forth
unlike chains. and they dont damage drive train..
* your suits dont become dirty your hands dont freeze ;D
*unexpected frosts on bridges, valleys dont bite you unless you dont travel
at the speed of sound ;D
*and very important , you drive your car with confidence :)
* after their last year you can use them also in summer ;)
so if budget permits, I definitely recommend them :y
Why?
physic rules, increased grip on tyres applies more force on clutch and brake pads
Ah ok. So really minimal then. No different to driving in a dry summer with good quality summer tyres.
yep.. but I will sacrifice clutch and brake pad wear instead of me , someone and my car.. ;D :y
-
to clarify some points , I want to share some of my experiences:
drawbacks for winter tyres
* increases consumption around %5 to %10 depending on avg speed..
* if you are going to make a red/green light drag you are a looser
* brakes/clutch wear/tear rate increase
* you need to purchase 4 ideally, which is not cheap..
* if you are living on a high degree hilly area you have chance only
when its not completely compacted/ice
*they have same speed ratings like summer tyres, but their wear rates
at high speeds are higher as expected but not that quickly
advantages for winter tyres
* forget about 7 celcius limit.. when the weather is below 15 celcius
they work/grip very well and dont wear quickly so that you can use
them at least 2-3 years (or more- I use them at least 4-5 years)
*they can be used whole cold season without installing them back and forth
unlike chains. and they dont damage drive train..
* your suits dont become dirty your hands dont freeze ;D
*unexpected frosts on bridges, valleys dont bite you unless you dont travel
at the speed of sound ;D
*and very important , you drive your car with confidence :)
* after their last year you can use them also in summer ;)
so if budget permits, I definitely recommend them :y
Why?
physic rules, increased grip on tyres applies more force on clutch and brake pads
Ah ok. So really minimal then. No different to driving in a dry summer with good quality summer tyres.
yep.. but I will sacrifice clutch and brake pad wear instead of me , someone and my car.. ;D :y
Couldn't agree more. :y
-
Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.
Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!
(I fully understand the need to fit something other than sc3 when it does snow though, to the point that its worth fitting another brand)
It's worth pointing out that of all the pointless discussions we've had on winter tyres, only two uk members have them, or had them. As far as I can remember. With a third only buying them for a trip to Eastern Europe or there abouts.
Why? We don't need them is why! (High ground rural members aside, but that true in Spain as well)
-
"so the point I would suggest some budget summer tyres perform better in snow..."
Might I point the honourable admin in the direction of a set of... ::)
Must admit, I've been quite impressed so far but not really seen anything too bad as we seem to be having a lull... I'll update after tomorrow's dump if it arrives :y
-
Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.
Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!
(I fully understand the need to fit something other than sc3 when it does snow though, to the point that its worth fitting another brand)
It's worth pointing out that of all the pointless discussions we've had on winter tyres, only two uk members have them, or had them. As far as I can remember. With a third only buying them for a trip to Eastern Europe or there abouts.
Why? We don't need them is why! (High ground rural members aside, but that true in Spain as well)
Chris , our point is you dont need snow to use them.. Use a winter tyre for cold season and keep your expensive sc3 for summer without tear/wear so you can use them longer .. so economically not much difference.. :y
ps: I'm sure once you use them you will never give up using winter tyres..
-
Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.
Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!
(I fully understand the need to fit something other than sc3 when it does snow though, to the point that its worth fitting another brand)
It's worth pointing out that of all the pointless discussions we've had on winter tyres, only two uk members have them, or had them. As far as I can remember. With a third only buying them for a trip to Eastern Europe or there abouts.
Why? We don't need them is why! (High ground rural members aside, but that true in Spain as well)
Chris , our point is you dont need snow to use them.. Use a winter tyre for cold season and keep your expensive sc3 for summer without tear/wear so you can use them longer .. so economically not much difference.. :y
Cem break off ;D
This the first week that I would have needed them ;D 5am starts and all. ;D
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Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.
Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!
Not just snow ;)
-
Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.
Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!
Not just snow ;)
yes just snow. Unless I spin off into a muddy field of course. ;D
Sc3 in cold weather perform better than your autocraps do all year round. ::)
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Remember, winter tyres aren't just for snow.
Maybe so, but summer tyres of decent quality cope perfectly well in the winter above zero.
Unless to snows, which being generous is only a week of the year in this country, summer tyres are fine.
Agreed. :y I was driving on track day tyres on Wednesday last week. Absolutely no problem at all. ;)
It is only occasional snow and ice that present remotely hazardous driving conditions for summer tyres in this country, and, even then, the ability of all drivers to drive sensibly according to the conditions would make a much bigger impact than the type of rubber on the road. In addition, we have 3 cars, and only the Omega ever gets used in snow and ice, despite the other 2 being used all year round. Am I expected to buy 3 sets of winter tyres, and store them all summer? Nope. It will never fly.
We are a country where nobody even bothers to change a bulb on their car until it's picked up at an annual MOT. Nobody is interested in making their car or their driving safe. It doesn't get a second thought. Most just jump in a car and drive off with a fag in one hand and/or a mobile phone clamped to their ear. Not a though to the air in the tyres, the frost on the windows or the weather conditions. Winter tyres would be the icing on a cake that's yet to be baked IMHO.
/\ see!
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Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.
Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!
Not just snow ;)
yes just snow. Unless I spin off into a muddy field of course. ;D
Sc3 in cold weather perform better than your autocraps do all year round. ::)
Not sure if you are reading any of the posts? It is not snow that matters. The summer tyre rubber hardens below 7 deg or so to the point that it is not suitable for the job it was designed for. I am sure you are aware of black ice as well. You just need to be below 4 deg C for that to happen.
The silica component of winter tyres are much higher, meaning that they remain soft supple and grippy even below 7 deg C. Hence more grip. If grip wasnt important to you, then why use SC3's. Might as well use some Sunnys or enduros or Autogrips or something cheap and Chinese.
Now dont tell me that between Nov and March, out temps are well above 8 deg C. I didnt think so. Hence the point I am trying to make. It is difficult to say that they are not required unless you have really used them. As I said before, I used to be a non-believer as well, till I tried a pair. No, not in Iceland, but in good old England.
Lastly the winter tyres perform similarly to summer tyres in the pricing department. i.e. cheap winter tyres are crap. Something from the Dunlop/Conti/Bridgestone/Goodyear product lines perform really well.
-
Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.
Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!
Not just snow ;)
yes just snow. Unless I spin off into a muddy field of course. ;D
Sc3 in cold weather perform better than your autocraps do all year round. ::)
Not sure if you are reading any of the posts? It is not snow that matters. The summer tyre rubber hardens below 7 deg or so to the point that it is not suitable for the job it was designed for. I am sure you are aware of black ice as well. You just need to be below 4 deg C for that to happen.
The silica component of winter tyres are much higher, meaning that they remain soft supple and grippy even below 7 deg C. Hence more grip. If grip wasnt important to you, then why use SC3's. Might as well use some Sunnys or enduros or Autogrips or something cheap and Chinese.
Now dont tell me that between Nov and March, out temps are well above 8 deg C. I didnt think so. Hence the point I am trying to make. it is difficult to say that they are not required unless you have really used them. As I said before, I used to be a non-believer as well, till I tried a pair. N,o not in Iceland, but in good old England.
Your not reading mine D. Although I wasn't clear to everyone else in my reply to TheBoy.
To be clear, sc3 perform better in low temps than Autogrip , and similarly priced cheap tyres do all year round. Hence my suggestion earlier, that it would be a better piece of legislation, to ban auto grips and the like, rather than introduce a compulsory winter tyre rule.
To put it another way.
Autogrip perform worse in the dry in summer, than sc3 do in the cold temp range of winter tyres.
Therefor a ban on those cheap tyres is more important than enforcing winter tyres for 1 week of snow.
The relevant performance of winter tyres is not in question. Suitability to the uk IS!
-
Plus I did suggest cheap winter tyres might not be such I wise purchase either.
-
Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.
Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!
Not just snow ;)
yes just snow. Unless I spin off into a muddy field of course. ;D
Sc3 in cold weather perform better than your autocraps do all year round. ::)
Not sure if you are reading any of the posts? It is not snow that matters. The summer tyre rubber hardens below 7 deg or so to the point that it is not suitable for the job it was designed for. I am sure you are aware of black ice as well. You just need to be below 4 deg C for that to happen.
The silica component of winter tyres are much higher, meaning that they remain soft supple and grippy even below 7 deg C. Hence more grip. If grip wasnt important to you, then why use SC3's. Might as well use some Sunnys or enduros or Autogrips or something cheap and Chinese.
Now dont tell me that between Nov and March, out temps are well above 8 deg C. I didnt think so. Hence the point I am trying to make. it is difficult to say that they are not required unless you have really used them. As I said before, I used to be a non-believer as well, till I tried a pair. N,o not in Iceland, but in good old England.
Your not reading mine D. Although I wasn't clear to everyone else in my reply to TheBoy.
To be clear, sc3 perform better in low temps than Autogrip , and similarly priced cheap tyres do all year round. Hence my suggestion earlier, that it would be a better piece of legislation, to ban auto grips and the like, rather than introduce a compulsory winter tyre rule.
To put it another way.
Autogrip perform worse in the dry in summer, than sc3 do in the cold temp range of winter tyres.
Therefor a ban on those cheap tyres is more important than enforcing winter tyres for 1 week of snow.
The relevant performance of winter tyres is not in question. Suitability to the uk IS!
That is where I disagree. To me the poor grip of SC3's in cold wet weather is similar to the Autogrips in summer.
You are fixated on snow. Winter, not snow! Temperatures, not the white stuff alone. How long does winter last in the UK? Not 1 week the last time I checked.
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Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.
Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!
Not just snow ;)
yes just snow. Unless I spin off into a muddy field of course. ;D
Sc3 in cold weather perform better than your autocraps do all year round. ::)
Not sure if you are reading any of the posts? It is not snow that matters. The summer tyre rubber hardens below 7 deg or so to the point that it is not suitable for the job it was designed for. I am sure you are aware of black ice as well. You just need to be below 4 deg C for that to happen.
The silica component of winter tyres are much higher, meaning that they remain soft supple and grippy even below 7 deg C. Hence more grip. If grip wasnt important to you, then why use SC3's. Might as well use some Sunnys or enduros or Autogrips or something cheap and Chinese.
Now dont tell me that between Nov and March, out temps are well above 8 deg C. I didnt think so. Hence the point I am trying to make. it is difficult to say that they are not required unless you have really used them. As I said before, I used to be a non-believer as well, till I tried a pair. N,o not in Iceland, but in good old England.
Your not reading mine D. Although I wasn't clear to everyone else in my reply to TheBoy.
To be clear, sc3 perform better in low temps than Autogrip , and similarly priced cheap tyres do all year round. Hence my suggestion earlier, that it would be a better piece of legislation, to ban auto grips and the like, rather than introduce a compulsory winter tyre rule.
To put it another way.
Autogrip perform worse in the dry in summer, than sc3 do in the cold temp range of winter tyres.
Therefor a ban on those cheap tyres is more important than enforcing winter tyres for 1 week of snow.
The relevant performance of winter tyres is not in question. Suitability to the uk IS!
That is where I disagree. To me the poor grip of SC3's in cold wet weather is similar to the Autogrips in summer.
;D this is winter we're measuring against though ;D
That's not my experience with sc3, even the ao1.
But let's say I agree with you, they are similar. Imagine Autogrip in cold wet weather then.
That still makes sc3 a far superior tyre. And proves the point that Autogrip are shite. Your disagreeing for the sake of it frankly. ;) ;D
-
And I didn't see your edit.
I'll give you a fortnight of winter tyre weather so far. But that's within the realm of a decent summer tyre. If we're talking auto grip then I'd give you about 9months of winter.
You see my point?
Edit typo.
-
Which reminds me, if TB says his sc5 are good in snow, or better in snow, then that's some progress for Varches point earlier, if I understand it correctly.
-
And I didn't see your edit.
I'll give you a fortnight of winter tyre weather so far. But that's within the realm of a decent summer tyre. If we're talking auto grip then I'd give you about 9months of winter.
You see my point?
Edit typo.
No, can you run that by me again. ;) ;) ;D ;D
-
And I didn't see your edit.
I'll give you a fortnight of winter tyre weather so far. But that's within the realm of a decent summer tyre. If we're talking auto grip then I'd give you about 9months of winter.
You see my point?
Edit typo.
No, can you run that by me again. ;) ;) ;D ;D
:P
Stupid bloody subject anyway ;D
-
Not all cheap tyres are poo though :-\
-
I think you're all going round in circles!! ;)
-
Not all cheap tyres are poo though :-\
Yes sorry, cost isn't relevant to this.
-
I think you're all going round in circles!! ;)
Big bkack ones ;D
-
for those that are interested in winter tyres :y
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60709/winter-tyre-test-2012 (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60709/winter-tyre-test-2012)
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre-Tests/#winter (http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre-Tests/#winter)
-
O-oh, somebody mentioned sc3 are crap in snow again. ;D
-
O-oh, somebody mentioned sc3 are crap in snow again. ;D
;D ;D :y
-
And I didn't see your edit.
I'll give you a fortnight of winter tyre weather so far. But that's within the realm of a decent summer tyre. If we're talking auto grip then I'd give you about 9months of winter.
You see my point?
Edit typo.
Have you tried a decent winter tyre to compare with though? If you haven't, then there isnt any point discussing it. If you truly have and don't feel that there is a difference, then I totally understand where you are coming from.
-
And I didn't see your edit.
I'll give you a fortnight of winter tyre weather so far. But that's within the realm of a decent summer tyre. If we're talking auto grip then I'd give you about 9months of winter.
You see my point?
Edit typo.
Have you tried a decent winter tyre to compare with though? If you haven't, then there isnt any point discussing it. If you truly have and don't feel that there is a difference, then I totally understand where you are coming from.
I have no doubt someone who tries them will not look back.. :y
-
And I didn't see your edit.
I'll give you a fortnight of winter tyre weather so far. But that's within the realm of a decent summer tyre. If we're talking auto grip then I'd give you about 9months of winter.
You see my point?
Edit typo.
Have you tried a decent winter tyre to compare with though? If you haven't, then there isnt any point discussing it. If you truly have and don't feel that there is a difference, then I totally understand where you are coming from.
Sorry, was I accused of not reading posts earlier? Of course I haven't tried them, as there's no need for them in the uk, and I don't need to try them, as I agree with you they will be better...for a fortnight or a similar pointless minimal amount of time.
Sorry D, but there something amiss if your sc3 are spinning up above zero. Pressures maybe? Age?
-
And I didn't see your edit.
I'll give you a fortnight of winter tyre weather so far. But that's within the realm of a decent summer tyre. If we're talking auto grip then I'd give you about 9months of winter.
You see my point?
Edit typo.
Have you tried a decent winter tyre to compare with though? If you haven't, then there isnt any point discussing it. If you truly have and don't feel that there is a difference, then I totally understand where you are coming from.
I have no doubt someone who tries them will not look back.. :y
I know someone here that did look back! At where he'd come from. :-X
-
And I didn't see your edit.
I'll give you a fortnight of winter tyre weather so far. But that's within the realm of a decent summer tyre. If we're talking auto grip then I'd give you about 9months of winter.
You see my point?
Edit typo.
Have you tried a decent winter tyre to compare with though? If you haven't, then there isnt any point discussing it. If you truly have and don't feel that there is a difference, then I totally understand where you are coming from.
I have no doubt someone who tries them will not look back.. :y
I know someone here that did look back! At where he'd come from. :-X
you cant be serious or "this someone" ???
-
And I didn't see your edit.
I'll give you a fortnight of winter tyre weather so far. But that's within the realm of a decent summer tyre. If we're talking auto grip then I'd give you about 9months of winter.
You see my point?
Edit typo.
Have you tried a decent winter tyre to compare with though? If you haven't, then there isnt any point discussing it. If you truly have and don't feel that there is a difference, then I totally understand where you are coming from.
Sorry, was I accused of not reading posts earlier? Of course I haven't tried them, as there's no need for them in the uk, and I don't need to try them, as I agree with you they will be better...for a fortnight or a similar pointless minimal amount of time.
Sorry D, but there something amiss if your sc3 are spinning up above zero. Pressures maybe? Age?
If so, your opinion on the subject is frankly of no real benefit to anyone else.
As an example I could state that a pattern drop link off ebay is as good as the GM part, that I dont feel the need to heed actual experience and I am happy to stick with my pattern part for my car. Now experience would state that isnt correct. But I could stubbornly stick with my idea and refuse to accept the possibility that I may be wrong. Or I could try the GM part and actually appreciate what is correct.
My SC3's are under 2yrs old, have even wear and the recommended pressures. The car has been setup by WIM. Something else could be amiss. But this has only started since the cold spell has started. Had no issues in the summer. Real world experience over the last 4 years has told me that there is a significance difference once the temps drop. And this is significantly longer than a fortnight. More like 3 to 4 months.
-
And I didn't see your edit.
I'll give you a fortnight of winter tyre weather so far. But that's within the realm of a decent summer tyre. If we're talking auto grip then I'd give you about 9months of winter.
You see my point?
Edit typo.
Have you tried a decent winter tyre to compare with though? If you haven't, then there isnt any point discussing it. If you truly have and don't feel that there is a difference, then I totally understand where you are coming from.
I have no doubt someone who tries them will not look back.. :y
I know someone here that did look back! At where he'd come from. :-X
you cant be serious or "this someone" ???
i'm deadly serious, although this is memory dependant so maybe I am mistaken ;D
He's a member here, and I'm fairly sure he's a very competent driver.
Btw, have you seen prices and stopping distances on winter tyres currently? Uk sites so maybe not.
-
And I didn't see your edit.
I'll give you a fortnight of winter tyre weather so far. But that's within the realm of a decent summer tyre. If we're talking auto grip then I'd give you about 9months of winter.
You see my point?
Edit typo.
Have you tried a decent winter tyre to compare with though? If you haven't, then there isnt any point discussing it. If you truly have and don't feel that there is a difference, then I totally understand where you are coming from.
I have no doubt someone who tries them will not look back.. :y
I know someone here that did look back! At where he'd come from. :-X
you cant be serious or "this someone" ???
i'm deadly serious, although this is memory dependant so maybe I am mistaken ;D
He's a member here, and I'm fairly sure he's a very competent driver.
Btw, have you seen prices and stopping distances on winter tyres currently? Uk sites so maybe not.
nope.. but I can guess.. here when its made compulsory, there was a mile long crowd in front of tyre shops , prices rocketed
and many people buy them with %50 extra price.. I hardly found some for friends after many calls.. :-\
-
And I didn't see your edit.
I'll give you a fortnight of winter tyre weather so far. But that's within the realm of a decent summer tyre. If we're talking auto grip then I'd give you about 9months of winter.
You see my point?
Edit typo.
Have you tried a decent winter tyre to compare with though? If you haven't, then there isnt any point discussing it. If you truly have and don't feel that there is a difference, then I totally understand where you are coming from.
Sorry, was I accused of not reading posts earlier? Of course I haven't tried them, as there's no need for them in the uk, and I don't need to try them, as I agree with you they will be better...for a fortnight or a similar pointless minimal amount of time.
Sorry D, but there something amiss if your sc3 are spinning up above zero. Pressures maybe? Age?
If so, your opinion on the subject is frankly of no real benefit to anyone else.
As an example I could state that a pattern drop link off ebay is as good as the GM part, that I dont feel the need to heed actual experience and I am happy to stick with my pattern part for my car. Now experience would state that isnt correct. But I could stubbornly stick with my idea and refuse to accept the possibility that I may be wrong. Or I could try the GM part and actually appreciate what is correct.
My SC3's are under 2yrs old, have even wear and the recommended pressures. The car has been setup by WIM. Something else could be amiss. But this has only started since the cold spell has started. Had no issues in the summer. Real world experience over the last 4 years has told me that there is a significance difference once the temps drop. And this is significantly longer than a fortnight. More like 3 to 4 months.
D seriously. I haven't read all your post, because I'm not disagreeing with your opinion that winter tyres offer improvement over summer tyres. I agree there must be an advantage.
But in the right conditions. Dear oh dear. ::)
As said, this is the first week this year that warrants them here.
I've said a million times sc3 are shite in snow, ask cem ;D
They really really are. So understand the need to fit something else when it does snow. I simply don't agree on temp. That sc3 don't cut it, as I haven't seen a winter tyre with a braking rating higher than a C, most are D/E. sc3 are B in the wet on mine iirc. A on standard sizes.
As said, once again, this is the first week this year where winters are needed. Here anyway.
-
and as for stopping distances, on snow they have 0 friction ;D
-
Stop rolling your eyes Mr Gixer! :P
-
and as for stopping distances, on snow they have 0 friction ;D
Yeah good point ;D although Dunlops winter sport whatever it is, is a C-E for wet braking.
-
Stop rolling your eyes Mr Gixer! :P
::) :P
;) ;D
-
and as for stopping distances, on snow they have 0 friction ;D
Yeah good point ;D although Dunlops winter sport whatever it is, is a C-E for wet braking.
so you are interested ;D
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and as for stopping distances, on snow they have 0 friction ;D
Yeah good point ;D although Dunlops winter sport whatever it is, is a C-E for wet braking.
so you are interested ;D
Panto mode? ::)
If we ever have a winter like yours, yes. Without doubt. :)
Here? No!
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and as for stopping distances, on snow they have 0 friction ;D
Yeah good point ;D although Dunlops winter sport whatever it is, is a C-E for wet braking.
so you are interested ;D
Panto mode? ::)
If we ever have a winter like yours, yes. Without doubt. :)
Here? No!
I do believe ::)
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goodyears best in wet so more suitable..
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These?
http://www.goodyear.eu/uk_en/tires/passenger/ultragrip-performance/index.jsp?from=browse
C-E ::)
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Ok heres a test.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60808/continental-contipremiumcontact-2
The link is for the summer tyre in the winter tyre test. Look at the wet braking score. Then look at the wet braking score of the best winter tyre.
In fact take snow out of the equation the SUMMER TYRE TROUNCES ALL OF THEM.
as said, if its snows enough in the uk to warrant winter tyres, i might consider them.
Until then.... :-X
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Btw, I don't follow tests, I think they are rigged and vehicle specific.
But as other follow them so rigidly...
-
Btw, I don't follow tests, I think they are rigged and vehicle specific.
But as other follow them so rigidly...
::) ;D :y
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Ok heres a test.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60808/continental-contipremiumcontact-2 (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60808/continental-contipremiumcontact-2)
The link is for the summer tyre in the winter tyre test. Look at the wet braking score. Then look at the wet braking score of the best winter tyre.
In fact take snow out of the equation the SUMMER TYRE TROUNCES ALL OF THEM.
as said, if its snows enough in the uk to warrant winter tyres, i might consider them.
Until then.... :-X
conti summer tyre ..
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and this is the latest model for the size you use unless you decide to go different size..
http://www.goodyear.eu/tr_tr/tires/passenger/ultragrip-8-performance/index.jsp?from=tf (http://www.goodyear.eu/tr_tr/tires/passenger/ultragrip-8-performance/index.jsp?from=tf)
( I definitely recommend 16 and narrower size for winter which you have to use ultragrip 8 ie not performance )
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(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/wetbraking.jpg)
from
http://www.goodyearwintertyres.co.uk/ (http://www.goodyearwintertyres.co.uk/)
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I'm going to weld up a set of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPd3O5_SJEs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPd3O5_SJEs)
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Ok heres a test.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60808/continental-contipremiumcontact-2 (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60808/continental-contipremiumcontact-2)
The link is for the summer tyre in the winter tyre test. Look at the wet braking score. Then look at the wet braking score of the best winter tyre.
In fact take snow out of the equation the SUMMER TYRE TROUNCES ALL OF THEM.
as said, if its snows enough in the uk to warrant winter tyres, i might consider them.
Until then.... :-X
conti summer tyre ..
Actually that's 0.6% difference.
-
I'm going to weld up a set of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPd3O5_SJEs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPd3O5_SJEs)
better and practical than a conventional set..
-
Ok heres a test.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60808/continental-contipremiumcontact-2 (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60808/continental-contipremiumcontact-2)
The link is for the summer tyre in the winter tyre test. Look at the wet braking score. Then look at the wet braking score of the best winter tyre.
In fact take snow out of the equation the SUMMER TYRE TROUNCES ALL OF THEM.
as said, if its snows enough in the uk to warrant winter tyres, i might consider them.
Until then.... :-X
conti summer tyre ..
Actually that's 0.6% difference.
5.3% , I'm sleepy but you are more ;D
-
I'm going to weld up a set of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPd3O5_SJEs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPd3O5_SJEs)
better and practical than a conventional set..
Just need to fit an air compressor and tank too, unless they do an electric version? :y
-
I'm going to weld up a set of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPd3O5_SJEs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPd3O5_SJEs)
better and practical than a conventional set..
Just need to fit an air compressor and tank too, unless they do an electric version? :y
for big vehicles its very practical and I cant imagine how expensive will be a snow tyre for them :-\
-
Ok heres a test.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60808/continental-contipremiumcontact-2 (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60808/continental-contipremiumcontact-2)
The link is for the summer tyre in the winter tyre test. Look at the wet braking score. Then look at the wet braking score of the best winter tyre.
In fact take snow out of the equation the SUMMER TYRE TROUNCES ALL OF THEM.
as said, if its snows enough in the uk to warrant winter tyres, i might consider them.
Until then.... :-X
conti summer tyre ..
Actually that's 0.6% difference.
i
5.3% , I'm sleepy but you are more ;D
oh ok, so what's straight aqua?
-
I'm going to weld up a set of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPd3O5_SJEs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPd3O5_SJEs)
Seems a very clever idea. :y
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as I haven't seen a winter tyre with a braking rating higher than a C, most are D/E. sc3 are B in the wet on mine iirc. A on standard sizes.
You are missing the point - or "doing a Cem" ;D. You are comparing warm, wet braking. Not cold braking. So not a valid comparison.
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as I haven't seen a winter tyre with a braking rating higher than a C, most are D/E. sc3 are B in the wet on mine iirc. A on standard sizes.
You are missing the point - or "doing a Cem" ;D. You are comparing warm, wet braking. Not cold braking. So not a valid comparison.
Yeah, annoying isn't it. ;D
It's their own figures though. ::)
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Anyway, I think the poll speaks for itself on the legislation issue at least. :y
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I should point out that the only serious issue I've had with getting stuck/completely uncontrolled on SC5s this year, winters wouldn't have helped.
But that does not detract from the fact that winters are designed for better grip at low temperatures.
To sort this, once and for all, once student is back, I'll slap his wheels on the bullet on a cold day, and compare.
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It's their own figures though. ::)
But not valid.
Clearly it shows summer tyres are better in warm conditions. No shit, sherlock, its what they are designed for.
-
I can see the benefit of winter tyres, I really can. But I don't see the point in legislation ;)
Now I have a spare set of wheels I'll be considering them (in the summer when prices come down ::)) but have been impressed with the performance of the "budget" tyres I have now, although they are new ;)
But, for the main, people don't have the space (or ability for some) to have 2 sets of wheels and change them over.
I've never used winter tyres so all in my opinion but I do agree with Chris that, in general, we don't desperately need them. Unfortunately, there are too many (I'd say at least 65%) cars on the road that just have the cheapest bit of round rubber fitted to them and these are far more dangerous! Having the extra grip yourself is, as we all know, only a small part of the story as its the other vehicles that are going to hit you that cause the problems ;)
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I still don't think it's worth it, personally.
As said, AGAIN, if I had auto grips or similar as a summer tyres, as a marker or a base line or average of summer tyre performance, then there would be a case.
But on decent summer tyres, your TT being an even better "marker" so to speak, and given our actual weather, sorry I don't see it.
Crap summer tyres are way more dangerous IMO.
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And I didn't see your edit.
I'll give you a fortnight of winter tyre weather so far. But that's within the realm of a decent summer tyre. If we're talking auto grip then I'd give you about 9months of winter.
You see my point?
Edit typo.
Have you tried a decent winter tyre to compare with though? If you haven't, then there isnt any point discussing it. If you truly have and don't feel that there is a difference, then I totally understand where you are coming from.
I have no doubt someone who tries them will not look back.. :y
I know someone here that did look back! At where he'd come from. :-X
you cant be serious or "this someone" ???
i'm deadly serious, although this is memory dependant so maybe I am mistaken ;D
He's a member here, and I'm fairly sure he's a very competent driver.
Btw, have you seen prices and stopping distances on winter tyres currently? Uk sites so maybe not.
Yes 'twas I.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=98255.0
I would happily try a full set of new Winter Tyres as there really must have been something amiss with the ones I had on the rear. Unfortunately I simply don't have the available funds to do this so this year the DTi has been left on it's normal wheels and tyres and so far has coped absolutely fine. (Which reminds me, the rears are down to 2mm ::) )
The SC3's on my V6 have been superb though.... mind you it hasn't been off the driveway in four weeks ;D
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And I didn't see your edit.
I'll give you a fortnight of winter tyre weather so far. But that's within the realm of a decent summer tyre. If we're talking auto grip then I'd give you about 9months of winter.
You see my point?
Edit typo.
Have you tried a decent winter tyre to compare with though? If you haven't, then there isnt any point discussing it. If you truly have and don't feel that there is a difference, then I totally understand where you are coming from.
I have no doubt someone who tries them will not look back.. :y
I know someone here that did look back! At where he'd come from. :-X
you cant be serious or "this someone" ???
i'm deadly serious, although this is memory dependant so maybe I am mistaken ;D
He's a member here, and I'm fairly sure he's a very competent driver.
Btw, have you seen prices and stopping distances on winter tyres currently? Uk sites so maybe not.
Yes 'twas I.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=98255.0
I would happily try a full set of new Winter Tyres as there really must have been something amiss with the ones I had on the rear. Unfortunately I simply don't have the available funds to do this so this year the DTi has been left on it's normal wheels and tyres and so far has coped absolutely fine. (Which reminds me, the rears are down to 2mm ::) )
The SC3's on my V6 have been superb though.... mind you it hasn't been off the driveway in four weeks ;D
leave it on the drive if its snowing mate, seriously. Did I mention sc3 are crap in snow. Think I may have done, once or twice. ;D
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some mean temperatures for UK
http://www.kwik-fit.com/why-fit-winter-tyres.asp (http://www.kwik-fit.com/why-fit-winter-tyres.asp)
"In fact, most of the country has ground frost for 40 out of the 90 days of winter - with first frost falling in Aberdeen in Mid October down to Southampton being Mid November."
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some mean temperatures for UK
http://www.kwik-fit.com/why-fit-winter-tyres.asp (http://www.kwik-fit.com/why-fit-winter-tyres.asp)
"In fact, most of the country has ground frost for 40 out of the 90 days of winter - with first frost falling in Aberdeen in Mid October down to Southampton being Mid November."
Yes but if you let Kwik Fit fit the winter tyres you'd be safer to walk back home afterwards!
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10 peneth worth I'm with gixer on this +1.
why spend £200 on somthing that you are only going to use for 8 maybe 9 weeks of the year.
Yes i have experienced traction problems with my avons 234/45/17, if i was going to germany,Scandinavia or somewhere it is law to fit them then yes,the other negitive for them in england is there temperature range,considering we can go from +14 to -5 in two days and winter tyres work best at +3 and below,why bother.
Its a bit like why does Jemima who lives in Chelsea need a range rover for the school run!
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some mean temperatures for UK
http://www.kwik-fit.com/why-fit-winter-tyres.asp (http://www.kwik-fit.com/why-fit-winter-tyres.asp)
"In fact, most of the country has ground frost for 40 out of the 90 days of winter - with first frost falling in Aberdeen in Mid October down to Southampton being Mid November."
Yes but if you let Kwik Fit fit the winter tyres you'd be safer to walk back home afterwards!
;D thats another story :y
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leaving the cost factor aside , would you use them if given free ?
I definitely would.. it snows or not.. thats the point..
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as I haven't seen a winter tyre with a braking rating higher than a C, most are D/E. sc3 are B in the wet on mine iirc. A on standard sizes.
You are missing the point - or "doing a Cem" ;D. You are comparing warm, wet braking. Not cold braking. So not a valid comparison.
That made me chuckle.
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10 peneth worth I'm with gixer on this +1.
why spend £200 on somthing that you are only going to use for 8 maybe 9 weeks of the year.
I agree I'd rather see people spend more on 'normal' tyres. Although in reality, in the UK, the winter tyres are good for 5yrs (or more, if you are prepared to go beyond the 5yr limit), so its not so much of an outlay when looked at that way - a tenner per year, per corner when spread over 5 years.
But when we can't encourage people to use decent rubber in the summer, I think we're on a loser.
Education is key, as I've said. Take Mr Gixer - I'll pick on him because he has been the most vocal - he has not tried winters, yet happily accepts that (snow aside) SC3s are better...
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Also winter tyres is a very good way for the tyre companys/manufacturers to make some more money from gullible english southerners, :)
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Also winter tyres is a very good way for the tyre companys/manufacturers to make some more money from gullible english southerners, :)
They aren't going to miss an opportunity ;D
However, lets say you had a 4x4, that for 2 months of the year you used heavily off-road.
Would you:
1) have road tyres, and use them off road
2) have off road tyres only, all year
3) use offroad tyres just for those 2 months
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Also winter tyres is a very good way for the tyre companys/manufacturers to make some more money from gullible english southerners, :)
here is my solution.. nationalise tyre companies.. and distrubute winter tyres for free ;D :y
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10 peneth worth I'm with gixer on this +1.
why spend £200 on somthing that you are only going to use for 8 maybe 9 weeks of the year.
Yes i have experienced traction problems with my avons 234/45/17, if i was going to germany,Scandinavia or somewhere it is law to fit them then yes,the other negitive for them in england is there temperature range,considering we can go from +14 to -5 in two days and winter tyres work best at +3 and below,why bother.
Its a bit like why does Jemima who lives in Chelsea need a range rover for the school run!
You are right. If you spend £200 on 4 winter tyres then they are most likely going to be cheap chinese crap and of no use to anyone. The cheapest (quality tyre) I could find last month was £150 per tyre. But remember, the total cost is not for one year. You are spreading it over 5 years and in return getting longer out of your summer tyres as well. Then the safety aspect. The expense if you even have a simple prang with a lamppost or a kerb. In many ways it works out well for me. And I am willing to pay for my family's safety. Cost isn't a factor when I consider safety. As an example I recently bought a bike. I paid for the grippiest tyres I could find and the safest helmet as well. And the brightest lights front and rear I could find. You could argue that I could make do with cheap tyres, a chinese helmet and lights from ASDA. But then it is my life, and I dont want to end up tetraplegic.
With regards to legislation; as someone mentioned earlier, the majority of drivers wouldnt bother even getting their cars checked annually if it wasnt for the MOT. Most people are stupid and dont care about their safety or others. The counter argument would be that even if it was mandatory, the very same people would put cheap chinese winter tyres on and end up being just as risky.
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Currently some better Chinese crap winter tyres are £800 a set !
And that was me posted earlier that the same people that fit crap summer tyres, will also fit crap winter tyres. Where's the gain? Make them fit decent summer tyres and get a better year long average improvement.
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With the cost of insurance, road tax and fuel, who the hell can afford to buy winter tyres anyway? :-\
When summer comes round again many people wouldn't change back to summer tyres because they couldn't afford to and would run round on winters all year round. ::) So what are the issues of driving with winter tyres in summer? ???
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Running winters in the summer is a bit like running on wets in the dry,they just wear out as they get too hot,
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Running winters in the summer is a bit like running on wets in the dry,they just wear out as they get too hot,
Not really. I have to say I was guilty of that a couple of years ago and it was fine. Slightly softer handling, possible more wear than a similar summer tyre. But it didnt just wear out. That is a misconception that you will wear your winter tyres out in summer. May be in sunny Dubai. Not in the UK.
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With the cost of insurance, road tax and fuel, who the hell can afford to buy winter tyres anyway? :-\
When summer comes round again many people wouldn't change back to summer tyres because they couldn't afford to and would run round on winters all year round. ::) So what are the issues of driving with winter tyres in summer? ???
That just ain't logical. You'd have the summer tyres stored somewhere from when they came off before winter. Unless of course they were worn out anyway. In which case you'd need to buy some anyway. Once the initial outlay has been made, that's it. No more spending than you would if you ran one set of tyres.
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With the cost of insurance, road tax and fuel, who the hell can afford to buy winter tyres anyway? :-\
When summer comes round again many people wouldn't change back to summer tyres because they couldn't afford to and would run round on winters all year round. ::) So what are the issues of driving with winter tyres in summer? ???
That just ain't logical. You'd have the summer tyres stored somewhere from when they came off before winter. Unless of course they were worn out anyway. In which case you'd need to buy some anyway. Once the initial outlay has been made, that's it. No more spending than you would if you ran one set of tyres.
And what's logic got to do with it?
In any walk of life there is always a retard at the back that doesn't understand.
When it comes to understanding grip levels my Mrs is a retard.
When comes to admin and paperwork I'm the retard.
When it comes to electrics I'm the retard (again ;D )
When it comes to understanding car handling faults TheBoy is a retard, clearly!
We all have out plus and minus points.
However, I'd like to know the strong point of the retard who came up with this idea ? Because winter tyres in a country that has dull changeable weather all year round is no answer, when half the population are retards behind the wheel anyway.
There may or may not be a case for winter tyres, but there are far ore important issues to deal with first.
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With the cost of insurance, road tax and fuel, who the hell can afford to buy winter tyres anyway? :-\
When summer comes round again many people wouldn't change back to summer tyres because they couldn't afford to and would run round on winters all year round. ::) So what are the issues of driving with winter tyres in summer? ???
That just ain't logical. You'd have the summer tyres stored somewhere from when they came off before winter. Unless of course they were worn out anyway. In which case you'd need to buy some anyway. Once the initial outlay has been made, that's it. No more spending than you would if you ran one set of tyres.
And what's logic got to do with it?
In any walk of life there is always a retard at the back that doesn't understand.
When it comes to understanding grip levels my Mrs is a retard.
When comes to admin and paperwork I'm the retard.
When it comes to electrics I'm the retard (again ;D )
When it comes to understanding car handling faults TheBoy is a retard, clearly!
We all have out plus and minus points.
However, I'd like to know the strong point of the retard who came up with this idea ? Because winter tyres in a country that has dull changeable weather all year round is no answer, when half the population are retards behind the wheel anyway.
There may or may not be a case for winter tyres, but there are far ore important issues to deal with first.
Yes, Mr Gixer's Prozac dose for example. ;D ;D ;D
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I, personally, would rather see the (minimum) £200 for winter tyres spent on COMPULSORY bad weather lessons - £200 should pay for 10 hours+a test and would cover driving rain, fog, ice, snow and high winds.
Yes, I know there's a pass+ course, but it's not compulsory, and it doesn't (AFAIK) cover bad weather - except for skid pan? experience
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The question that those who have bought into the need for winter tyres have to ask is which constabularys have winter tyres fitted to traffic cars,to my knowledge there is possibly 2 that might fit them,highland and Grampian.
. I dont think the met or Sussex or devon+cornwall do.
so with this great sweeping statment. If the plod dont need them and the dogooders arnt harping on about them being a major contribution to road safety, then i dont think we need them,but if living in the deep south there are polar bears and blizzard conditions then please carry on...
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Plod are still in shorts down in Cornwall. ;D :y
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With the cost of insurance, road tax and fuel, who the hell can afford to buy winter tyres anyway? :-\
When summer comes round again many people wouldn't change back to summer tyres because they couldn't afford to and would run round on winters all year round. ::) So what are the issues of driving with winter tyres in summer? ???
That just ain't logical. You'd have the summer tyres stored somewhere from when they came off before winter. Unless of course they were worn out anyway. In which case you'd need to buy some anyway. Once the initial outlay has been made, that's it. No more spending than you would if you ran one set of tyres.
And what's logic got to do with it?
In any walk of life there is always a retard at the back that doesn't understand.
When it comes to understanding grip levels my Mrs is a retard.
When comes to admin and paperwork I'm the retard.
When it comes to electrics I'm the retard (again ;D )
When it comes to understanding car handling faults TheBoy is a retard, clearly!
We all have out plus and minus points.
However, I'd like to know the strong point of the retard who came up with this idea ? Because winter tyres in a country that has dull changeable weather all year round is no answer, when half the population are retards behind the wheel anyway.
There may or may not be a case for winter tyres, but there are far ore important issues to deal with first.
Yes, Mr Gixer's Prozac dose for example. ;D ;D ;D
and do gooding Wingebags that only turn up to stir the nest, that can't tell if their tyres have gone off due to storage. ;D ;D ;D maybe try some yourself D. ;)
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I say again.. We are dealing with people (in the most part) who can't be @rsed to change a light bulb to make their car safer.
Force winter tyres on them, and they'll buy the cheapest rubbish that claims to be a winter tyre, the box'll be ticked, and their tyre budget will now have to stretch to another set of wheels, storage of same, swapping over (most can't use a jack), etc.
Bottom line : Are we really seeing enough people hurt due specifically to the difference in grip between the two tyre types in the specific (rare, in the UK) conditions in which winter tyres have a significant advantage?
As said, we need to start with the attitude of drivers, then their ability, and a whole host of other human issues before worrying about different types of rubber. Compulsory skid pan training would be a good start, because I'd bet a fair few drivers out there simply freeze and wait for the bang as soon as their car starts sliding.
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With regards to the 4x4 tyres issue, raised by Jamie.
i have a jeep and is currently running aggressive off road tyres, these i fit to the jeep around december time as it is when i do most of my greenlaning and off road on the salisbury plains.
I remove theses when the weather starts to improve purely due to the fact that they will scrub themselfs out in no time on tarmac and the drone is hell, but in the snow they are incredible and linked to the diff lock even better.
I voted no in the original poll as for the amount of very cold temps in this country it does not make financle sence or indeed any other sence.
If you drive to the weather/ability and road conditions and give plenty of thought to the road ahead then it does not make any difference to the tyres you have fitted provided they are legal in terms of tread.
Gary
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I say again.. We are dealing with people (in the most part) who can't be @rsed to change a light bulb to make their car safer.
Force winter tyres on them, and they'll buy the cheapest rubbish that claims to be a winter tyre, the box'll be ticked, and their tyre budget will now have to stretch to another set of wheels, storage of same, swapping over (most can't use a jack), etc.
Bottom line : Are we really seeing enough people hurt due specifically to the difference in grip between the two tyre types in the specific (rare, in the UK) conditions in which winter tyres have a significant advantage?
As said, we need to start with the attitude of drivers, then their ability, and a whole host of other human issues before worrying about different types of rubber. Compulsory skid pan training would be a good start, because I'd bet a fair few drivers out there simply freeze and wait for the bang as soon as their car starts sliding.
Very valid points. Doesnt preclude sensible people from making an informed choice though.
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With the cost of insurance, road tax and fuel, who the hell can afford to buy winter tyres anyway? :-\
When summer comes round again many people wouldn't change back to summer tyres because they couldn't afford to and would run round on winters all year round. ::) So what are the issues of driving with winter tyres in summer? ???
That just ain't logical. You'd have the summer tyres stored somewhere from when they came off before winter. Unless of course they were worn out anyway. In which case you'd need to buy some anyway. Once the initial outlay has been made, that's it. No more spending than you would if you ran one set of tyres.
And what's logic got to do with it?
In any walk of life there is always a retard at the back that doesn't understand.
When it comes to understanding grip levels my Mrs is a retard.
When comes to admin and paperwork I'm the retard.
When it comes to electrics I'm the retard (again ;D )
When it comes to understanding car handling faults TheBoy is a retard, clearly!
We all have out plus and minus points.
However, I'd like to know the strong point of the retard who came up with this idea ? Because winter tyres in a country that has dull changeable weather all year round is no answer, when half the population are retards behind the wheel anyway.
There may or may not be a case for winter tyres, but there are far ore important issues to deal with first.
Yes, Mr Gixer's Prozac dose for example. ;D ;D ;D
and do gooding Wingebags that only turn up to stir the nest, that can't tell if their tyres have gone off due to storage. ;D ;D ;D maybe try some yourself D. ;)
If 2 year old SC3's are so crap that 6 months of appropriate storage cause them to go off, then I wonder about their ability as a tyre/manufacturer. I also wonder why you would recommend such a crap tyre? And I am not whinging, just stating my experience. ::)
And I have had my double strength Prozac already, thank you very much! :P
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The question that those who have bought into the need for winter tyres have to ask is which constabularys have winter tyres fitted to traffic cars,to my knowledge there is possibly 2 that might fit them,highland and Grampian.
. I dont think the met or Sussex or devon+cornwall do.
so with this great sweeping statment. If the plod dont need them and the dogooders arnt harping on about them being a major contribution to road safety, then i dont think we need them,but if living in the deep south there are polar bears and blizzard conditions then please carry on...
I have no idea about the police. But local ambulance services have winter tyres on their vehicles. Or so I was told by my friendly LAS paramedic.
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Force winter tyres on them, and they'll buy the cheapest rubbish that claims to be a winter tyre, the box'll be ticked, and their tyre budget will now have to stretch to another set of wheels, storage of same, swapping over (most can't use a jack), etc.
I agree, I'd much rather see shit tyres (all types) banned, before winters are compulsory. Its no secret, I'd like to see the part worns market banned as well.
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But would you still say that if you couldnt afford expensive new tyres ? ;)
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But would you still say that if you couldnt afford expensive new tyres ? ;)
OK, I can't afford to service the brakes, so run on substandard ones which don't stop.
I can't afford driving lessons, so I drive without passing a test.
Where do you draw the line?
So to directly answer your question, yes. Or more accurately, I've have a smaller car I could afford tyres on. Without doubt, part worns are expensive. And there are some pretty usable budget tyres available.
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Sorry, sounded like a rant.
I work in Milton Keynes, where a fair proportion of the sub Sahara immigrants don't have licences, simply do not know how to drive, are outright dangerous, and drive deathtraps.
PC Plod are too scared to pull them, as the do-gooders like that ugly bitch from Liberty ensure the media get hold of it, with a racism twist.
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But would you still say that if you couldnt afford expensive new tyres ? ;)
Mid range "Performance" tyres, thats tyres that perform in the middle price range should be the minimum price range available.
Linglong, wanlee, Autogrip, etc all happen to be in the minimum price bracket, but its their lack of performance that is more dangerous than anything else on the road.
Deal with that first, IMO.
Not being able to afford to maintain a car, does not give you the right to drive the poxy thing. ;)
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The question that those who have bought into the need for winter tyres have to ask is which constabularys have winter tyres fitted to traffic cars,to my knowledge there is possibly 2 that might fit them,highland and Grampian.
. I dont think the met or Sussex or devon+cornwall do.
so with this great sweeping statment. If the plod dont need them and the dogooders arnt harping on about them being a major contribution to road safety, then i dont think we need them,but if living in the deep south there are polar bears and blizzard conditions then please carry on...
I have no idea about the police. But local ambulance services have winter tyres on their vehicles. Or so I was told by my friendly LAS paramedic.
well they don't here, there's a paramedic lives two doors up.
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With the cost of insurance, road tax and fuel, who the hell can afford to buy winter tyres anyway? :-\
When summer comes round again many people wouldn't change back to summer tyres because they couldn't afford to and would run round on winters all year round. ::) So what are the issues of driving with winter tyres in summer? ???
That just ain't logical. You'd have the summer tyres stored somewhere from when they came off before winter. Unless of course they were worn out anyway. In which case you'd need to buy some anyway. Once the initial outlay has been made, that's it. No more spending than you would if you ran one set of tyres.
And what's logic got to do with it?
In any walk of life there is always a retard at the back that doesn't understand.
When it comes to understanding grip levels my Mrs is a retard.
When comes to admin and paperwork I'm the retard.
When it comes to electrics I'm the retard (again ;D )
When it comes to understanding car handling faults TheBoy is a retard, clearly!
We all have out plus and minus points.
However, I'd like to know the strong point of the retard who came up with this idea ? Because winter tyres in a country that has dull changeable weather all year round is no answer, when half the population are retards behind the wheel anyway.
There may or may not be a case for winter tyres, but there are far ore important issues to deal with first.
Yes, Mr Gixer's Prozac dose for example. ;D ;D ;D
and do gooding Wingebags that only turn up to stir the nest, that can't tell if their tyres have gone off due to storage. ;D ;D ;D maybe try some yourself D. ;)
If 2 year old SC3's are so crap that 6 months of appropriate storage cause them to go off, then I wonder about their ability as a tyre/manufacturer. I also wonder why you would recommend such a crap tyre? And I am not whinging, just stating my experience. ::)
And I have had my double strength Prozac already, thank you very much! :P
i have two year old sc3 in the garage I think, might be 3 years by now. But during a period of tyre swapping for wheel changes I had to fit the old ones. Performance had dropped of considerably.
My experience the same with a couple of makes that where re fitted, for one reason or another. Falkens(ok shite tyres to start with) but they lost some grip after about 8 months. Pirelli where the same. P6000 is it? (Again not a great tyre)
It's not a case that just sc3 don't store well. Once the release agent is gone they oxidise, or whatever it's called. Green/blue/brown shed e over them. (Linglongs went brown for some reason, as they came on a set of wheels I bought 2(?) years ago, and are now re fitted on another car, purely to keep the rims off the floor)
Point is, tyres don't seem to store particularly well, but if yours are spinning up from a standing start on a stock 3.2 for whayever readon, they are below standard. Period.
Pressures, age, gone off, whatever. They are beyond their sell by date.
I don't have the issue on my "in use" tyres, because they've not been stored, because there is no need for winter tyres here.
I understand your use of them, makes sense, ESP given how sc3 behave in snow.
Of all the snow fallen this week, no inconvenience caused whatsoever. Sorry, there just isn't.
Simply because you have them, and fair play, doesn't mean we all need them. Hence the poll result. You lost, deal with it. ;)
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do you brush your teeth with cotton ?
do you go out with summer suits and shoes when its snowing otside ?
do you cut the meat with scissors ?
No! there may be cheap alternatives always but there are commonly preferred best solutions..
you purchase it or not , winter tyres are always the best solution..
I accept the fact that many families budgets may not permit expensive winter tyres.. and an extra set of wheels..
but still we have solutions.. you dont need a set of 18" low profile winter tyres .. do you ?
why is not enough a set of 15 or 16 size.. which is already the cars alternative listed size.. does it need to be posh ;D
and another alternative is all season tyres.. there are very good all season tyres that you can use whole year , may be sacrificing a bit in summer but wont let you in the middle of nowhere like summers do when things go worse.. I personally considered them..
And I defintely dont agree in the idea that they will have rare use.. and I also dont agree that you can keep the car parked..
what happens if it catches you on the road.. sometimes conditions occur so that there is a milisecond which seperates the life and death in an accident..I wouldnt want to loose my life in that milisecond just for unsuitable tyres.. and I have no doubt nobody will..
and as for priorities.. nothing has priority over human life..
say you send your children to the school with service.. would you accept its using summer tyres in winter ?
what happens if snow decides to stay more than a few days ? you cant lock your whole family in home for long..
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Cem, I can afford 18's because I don't need winter tyres. :)
"We" generally, in the uk, don't need them. See the poll. ;D
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And a member here tried them, a top quality winter tyre, and they put him in a ditch!
Maybe because they'd been stored, or where old. Perhaps?
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And a member here tried them, a top quality winter tyre, and they put him in a ditch!
Maybe because they'd been stored, or where old. Perhaps?
No because he only bought one pair and I am sure you agree differential grip is not good for any car. Now if he had spun off whilst on 4 winter tyres and driving safely, then I understand. Too many variables. He could have been speeding. Just because he says he wasnt, doesnt mean he actually wasn't.
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And a member here tried them, a top quality winter tyre, and they put him in a ditch!
Maybe because they'd been stored, or where old. Perhaps?
No because he only bought one pair and I am sure you agree differential grip is not good for any car. Now if he had spun off whilst on 4 winter tyres and driving safely, then I understand. Too many variables. He could have been speeding. Just because he says he wasnt, doesnt mean he actually wasn't.
He had them on the drive axle though (rear) and I would take his word that he wasn't speeding, purely based on the fact that there was virtually no damage ;) The back was what went, not the front (with good quality summer tyres :-X)
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Cem, I can afford 18's because I don't need winter tyres. :)
"We" generally, in the uk, don't need them. See the poll. ;D
I dont care what the poll says.. there are millions of drivers on earth who use them.. and uk is not an exception..
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Cem, I can afford 18's because I don't need winter tyres. :)
"We" generally, in the uk, don't need them. See the poll. ;D
I dont care what the poll says.. there are millions of drivers on earth who use them.. and uk is not an exception..
It is, cem. We know it, as we live here. ;D
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And a member here tried them, a top quality winter tyre, and they put him in a ditch!
Maybe because they'd been stored, or where old. Perhaps?
No because he only bought one pair and I am sure you agree differential grip is not good for any car. Now if he had spun off whilst on 4 winter tyres and driving safely, then I understand. Too many variables. He could have been speeding. Just because he says he wasnt, doesnt mean he actually wasn't.
a used old pair.. now I remember..
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Cem, I can afford 18's because I don't need winter tyres. :)
"We" generally, in the uk, don't need them. See the poll. ;D
I dont care what the poll says.. there are millions of drivers on earth who use them.. and uk is not an exception..
It is, cem. We know it, as we live here. ;D
as I shared above.. you have many days with frost.. so you need them :)
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What about Spain then? Compulsory winter tyres there?
Throughout Europe? Don't be daft.
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Cem, I can afford 18's because I don't need winter tyres. :)
"We" generally, in the uk, don't need them. See the poll. ;D
I dont care what the poll says.. there are millions of drivers on earth who use them.. and uk is not an exception..
It is, cem. We know it, as we live here. ;D
as I shared above.. you have many days with frost.. so you need them :)
no, we need crap tyres banned first.
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What about Spain then? Compulsory winter tyres there?
Throughout Europe? Don't be daft.
even in antalya it snows where summers exceed 46+ celicus.. it simply doesnt mater how is summer.. if temperature drops and its wet you se them.. only on equator line they dont have use..
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ok .. this much debate is enough.. lets save our energy for next year ;D :y
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Cem, I can afford 18's because I don't need winter tyres. :)
"We" generally, in the uk, don't need them. See the poll. ;D
The poll was regarding enforceability. I was deviating slightly and discussing actual need and real world benefits. Apologies to OP re: deviation from topic.
Also as Kevin Wood said, the vast majority cannot be arsed to change a light bulb, let alone be bothered about car safety. Are you going to use this group as your benchmark? Remember last years riots? Every one was rioting. I wasn't. I would have lost in a poll. However I still get to hold my head high as I did not follow the flock. I feel good "I lost" in that and this instance.
Make a choice, but don't make it blindly. As TB said, you cannot learn about something unless you actually try and experience it. You are the most vocal on this post (after me I agree), but have no experience of the product in a UK setting! I do a lot of clinical research as part of my job. It is the mentality you exhibit that is hardest to get over whilst trying to promote good ethical research.
And I wholeheartedly agree about getting rid of crap tyres. No arguments there. That doesnt take away from other aspects of safety.
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And a member here tried them, a top quality winter tyre, and they put him in a ditch!
Maybe because they'd been stored, or where old. Perhaps?
No because he only bought one pair and I am sure you agree differential grip is not good for any car. Now if he had spun off whilst on 4 winter tyres and driving safely, then I understand. Too many variables. He could have been speeding. Just because he says he wasnt, doesnt mean he actually wasn't.
He had them on the drive axle though (rear) and I would take his word that he wasn't speeding, purely based on the fact that there was virtually no damage ;) The back was what went, not the front (with good quality summer tyres :-X)
Nope, M+S tyres all round ;)
Matching L'Zens on the front and Matching Goodyear on the back.
I'm not that stupid that I would mix M+S and Summer tyres!
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And a member here tried them, a top quality winter tyre, and they put him in a ditch!
Maybe because they'd been stored, or where old. Perhaps?
No because he only bought one pair and I am sure you agree differential grip is not good for any car. Now if he had spun off whilst on 4 winter tyres and driving safely, then I understand. Too many variables. He could have been speeding. Just because he says he wasnt, doesnt mean he actually wasn't.
He had them on the drive axle though (rear) and I would take his word that he wasn't speeding, purely based on the fact that there was virtually no damage ;) The back was what went, not the front (with good quality summer tyres :-X)
I know, but there were other variables as well. Werent they used tyres or something like that? I don't remember the whole story though.
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And a member here tried them, a top quality winter tyre, and they put him in a ditch!
Maybe because they'd been stored, or where old. Perhaps?
No because he only bought one pair and I am sure you agree differential grip is not good for any car. Now if he had spun off whilst on 4 winter tyres and driving safely, then I understand. Too many variables. He could have been speeding. Just because he says he wasnt, doesnt mean he actually wasn't.
He had them on the drive axle though (rear) and I would take his word that he wasn't speeding, purely based on the fact that there was virtually no damage ;) The back was what went, not the front (with good quality summer tyres :-X)
Nope, M+S tyres all round ;)
Matching L'Zens on the front and Matching Goodyear on the back.
I'm not that stupid that I would mix M+S and Summer tyres!
Yes that was it. Different brands on the 2 axles. And not new tyres either if I am correct? I had a previous car that behaved horrendously with different brands on 2 axles, so I have been there before.
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What about Spain then? Compulsory winter tyres there?
Throughout Europe? Don't be daft.
even in antalya it snows where summers exceed 46+ celicus.. it simply doesnt mater how is summer.. if temperature drops and its wet you se them.. only on equator line they dont have use..
yes because that's YOUR climate. Why on earth would you assume the rest if the world is the same? Frost in the am, dos not mean you need winter tyres. It's can be 10c by lunch time here.
You have your tires to suit your needs. DON'T try to enforce it elsewhere, where you have no experience of that climate. We tried that in the crusades, and rightly learned a lesson. I suggest you try it cem. I wouldn't dare suggest banning winter tyres in a country I know nothing about.
In fact yes, I'll do a cem. Ready....
<cem mode on>
ALL WINTER TYRES SHOULD BE BANNED IN TURKEY. I know nothing about the country I've never been there other than on the Internet, yet I know best and everyone who lives there s wrong.
<cem mode off>
See? Don't be so bloody ridiculous.
-
You have your tirestyres to suit your needs. DON'T try to enforce it elsewhere, where you have no experience of...
ahem.... ;)
-
And a member here tried them, a top quality winter tyre, and they put him in a ditch!
Maybe because they'd been stored, or where old. Perhaps?
No because he only bought one pair and I am sure you agree differential grip is not good for any car. Now if he had spun off whilst on 4 winter tyres and driving safely, then I understand. Too many variables. He could have been speeding. Just because he says he wasnt, doesnt mean he actually wasn't.
He had them on the drive axle though (rear) and I would take his word that he wasn't speeding, purely based on the fact that there was virtually no damage ;) The back was what went, not the front (with good quality summer tyres :-X)
Nope, M+S tyres all round ;)
Matching L'Zens on the front and Matching Goodyear on the back.
I'm not that stupid that I would mix M+S and Summer tyres!
Yes that was it. Different brands on the 2 axles. And not new tyres either if I am correct? I had a previous car that behaved horrendously with different brands on 2 axles, so I have been there before.
I think the lesson learned is to only buy new tyres. The L'zens actually had less tread on them than the Goodyears but apart from slightly soft handling seemed to grip quite well. The Goodyears must have had some sort of contamination though because it was possible to spin them in the DTi before you'd hit the turbo in 1st gear so that must tell you something :o
I would like to try a full set of new, matching winter tyres but i'm afraid funds just do not allow for that at the moment...
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You have your tirestyres to suit your needs. DON'T try to enforce it elsewhere, where you have no experience of...
ahem.... ;)
;D of all my typos, you want to point out that one? ;D
-
I think the lesson learned is to only buy new tyres. The L'zens actually had less tread on them than the Goodyears but apart from slightly soft handling seemed to grip quite well. The Goodyears must have had some sort of contamination though because it was possible to spin them in the DTi before you'd hit the turbo in 1st gear so that must tell you something :o
I would like to try a full set of new, matching winter tyres but i'm afraid funds just do not allow for that at the moment...
I think an important lesson, as I said pages ago, winters aren't a magic cure for snow, black ice, whatever. Neither are 4x4s. Whilst they would/should have better grip at low temperatures, they are not a magic cure...
When I used to do a real job, I was called out to a road, report was telegraph pole had been knocked down. Me and my mate turn up, yup, pole down, with a Rover 214 embedded in it, driver nowhere to be seen. Eventually, he appears, still in shock, muttering "this car is supposed to have ABS, which means its safe" as he sticks his foot in one of the headlamps. My comment to him is the same to people here - having some safety feature (or winter tyres) won't save you from driving like a <insert description>
Not suggesting for one minute that the quoted person was or does drive like a twonk. Far from it, knowing him...
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You have your tirestyres to suit your needs. DON'T try to enforce it elsewhere, where you have no experience of...
ahem.... ;)
;D of all my typos, you want to point out that one? ;D
It was in the bit I wanted to quote
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Christ! have you seen the way they drive in Turkey,I know a guy from there and he said to me that in some countries they drive on the left,and in some countries they drive on the right, BUT! in Turkey they have yet to decide!!.... perhaps snow tyres will solve the appalling standard of driving in both countries....NOT ::)
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And a member here tried them, a top quality winter tyre, and they put him in a ditch!
Maybe because they'd been stored, or where old. Perhaps?
No because he only bought one pair and I am sure you agree differential grip is not good for any car. Now if he had spun off whilst on 4 winter tyres and driving safely, then I understand. Too many variables. He could have been speeding. Just because he says he wasnt, doesnt mean he actually wasn't.
He had them on the drive axle though (rear) and I would take his word that he wasn't speeding, purely based on the fact that there was virtually no damage ;) The back was what went, not the front (with good quality summer tyres :-X)
Ooohohhoo I missed this little gem.
So lets get this straight.
The best tyres must always go on the rear axle, regardless of front or rear wheel drive, because over steer is more dangerous.
If the above is true the best tyres to go on the back should have been the summer tyres. Because the winter tyres clearly where not up to the job. In this case.
Correct? :)
-
And a member here tried them, a top quality winter tyre, and they put him in a ditch!
Maybe because they'd been stored, or where old. Perhaps?
No because he only bought one pair and I am sure you agree differential grip is not good for any car. Now if he had spun off whilst on 4 winter tyres and driving safely, then I understand. Too many variables. He could have been speeding. Just because he says he wasnt, doesnt mean he actually wasn't.
He had them on the drive axle though (rear) and I would take his word that he wasn't speeding, purely based on the fact that there was virtually no damage ;) The back was what went, not the front (with good quality summer tyres :-X)
Ooohohhoo I missed this little gem.
So lets get this straight.
The best tyres must always go on the rear axle, regardless of front or rear wheel drive, because over steer is more dangerous.
If the above is true the best tyres to go on the back should have been the summer tyres. Because the winter tyres clearly where not up to the job. In this case.
Correct? :)
Keep up Mr G... wind back a page!!!
-
With the cost of insurance, road tax and fuel, who the hell can afford to buy winter tyres anyway? :-\
When summer comes round again many people wouldn't change back to summer tyres because they couldn't afford to and would run round on winters all year round. ::) So what are the issues of driving with winter tyres in summer? ???
That just ain't logical. You'd have the summer tyres stored somewhere from when they came off before winter. Unless of course they were worn out anyway. In which case you'd need to buy some anyway. Once the initial outlay has been made, that's it. No more spending than you would if you ran one set of tyres.
As Kevin Wood pointed out many folk can't be bothered or don't know how to change a lightbulb and that applies to changing wheels as well! After all that's what the AA's for..right? ::)
I don't think that everyone would have another set of wheels with the winter tyres on neatly stacked in the shed. A lot of people don't have the room for starters and a lot of people wouldn't be bothered and would buy the cheapest set of tyres every 6 months.
The likes of Kwikfit would go on the hardsell offensive so if someone came in with a set of tyres/wheels to swap and there was say 4mm of tread left they'd be 'encouraged' to buy a new set! And I bet the cost of changing a tyre would rocket as it'd be a nice little earner for the tyre fitters!! ;)
In my opinion the general standard of tyres would go down both in the summer and winter as people would buy the cheapest possible to the point that you would be better off with a set of quality standard tyres than a set of plastic chinese winter tyres that you didn't want in the first place, but you had to have because the bloody EU said so and plastic winters was all you could afford!!! >:(
-
And a member here tried them, a top quality winter tyre, and they put him in a ditch!
Maybe because they'd been stored, or where old. Perhaps?
No because he only bought one pair and I am sure you agree differential grip is not good for any car. Now if he had spun off whilst on 4 winter tyres and driving safely, then I understand. Too many variables. He could have been speeding. Just because he says he wasnt, doesnt mean he actually wasn't.
He had them on the drive axle though (rear) and I would take his word that he wasn't speeding, purely based on the fact that there was virtually no damage ;) The back was what went, not the front (with good quality summer tyres :-X)
Ooohohhoo I missed this little gem.
So lets get this straight.
The best tyres must always go on the rear axle, regardless of front or rear wheel drive, because over steer is more dangerous.
If the above is true the best tyres to go on the back should have been the summer tyres. Because the winter tyres clearly where not up to the job. In this case.
Correct? :)
Keep up Mr G... wind back a page!!!
yeah I know, I had to nip out. Women, no sense or timing. ;D
-
What about Spain then? Compulsory winter tyres there?
Throughout Europe? Don't be daft.
even in antalya it snows where summers exceed 46+ celicus.. it simply doesnt mater how is summer.. if temperature drops and its wet you se them.. only on equator line they dont have use..
yes because that's YOUR climate. Why on earth would you assume the rest if the world is the same? Frost in the am, dos not mean you need winter tyres. It's can be 10c by lunch time here.
You have your tires to suit your needs. DON'T try to enforce it elsewhere, where you have no experience of that climate. We tried that in the crusades, and rightly learned a lesson. I suggest you try it cem. I wouldn't dare suggest banning winter tyres in a country I know nothing about.
In fact yes, I'll do a cem. Ready....
<cem mode on>
ALL WINTER TYRES SHOULD BE BANNED IN TURKEY. I know nothing about the country I've never been there other than on the Internet, yet I know best and everyone who lives there s wrong.
<cem mode off>
See? Don't be so bloody ridiculous.
I do ;) ;)
-
Shaddup you ;D
-
Shaddup you ;D
Hmm. Ok. ;D
-
Christ! have you seen the way they drive in Turkey,I know a guy from there and he said to me that in some countries they drive on the left,and in some countries they drive on the right, BUT! in Turkey they have yet to decide!!.... perhaps snow tyres will solve the appalling standard of driving in both countries....NOT ::)
;D not sure still we decide.. ;D
-
What about Spain then? Compulsory winter tyres there?
Throughout Europe? Don't be daft.
even in antalya it snows where summers exceed 46+ celicus.. it simply doesnt mater how is summer.. if temperature drops and its wet you se them.. only on equator line they dont have use..
yes because that's YOUR climate. Why on earth would you assume the rest if the world is the same? Frost in the am, dos not mean you need winter tyres. It's can be 10c by lunch time here.
You have your tires to suit your needs. DON'T try to enforce it elsewhere, where you have no experience of that climate.
We tried that in the crusades, and rightly learned a lesson. I suggest you try it cem. I wouldn't dare suggest banning winter tyres in a country I know nothing about.
In fact yes, I'll do a cem. Ready....
<cem mode on>
ALL WINTER TYRES SHOULD BE BANNED IN TURKEY. I know nothing about the country I've never been there other than on the Internet, yet I know best and everyone who lives there s wrong.
<cem mode off>
See? Don't be so bloody ridiculous.
what do you think, I live on mars ;D frost is frost, snow is snow, rain is rain and finally cold is cold in UK ::)
and your cars skid like ours and dont forget I can watch most of your roads on line.. so tell me something that I dont know..
-
Christ! have you seen the way they drive in Turkey,I know a guy from there and he said to me that in some countries they drive on the left,and in some countries they drive on the right, BUT! in Turkey they have yet to decide!!.... perhaps snow tyres will solve the appalling standard of driving in both countries....NOT ::)
It is the same in the Ukraine, except if the road is busy in a city, then they use pavement and pedestrians have to jump out of the way. ::) :o :o :o They have to keep the 7,000 deaths a year up with a fraction of UK cars somehow. :D :D :D :D
To wear a seat belt means you are a coward and not a Cossack, while most of the old East European cars would never get near to 1 * for safety. :o :o :o :o
-
getting a bit bitchy on here ;D ;D ;D
-
There have been a lot of posts on here. Now if I was David Camoron, I would say: Good that's all settled then, the yes vote is clearly for winter tyres from October to March and pretty much everybody is in agreement that compulsory winter tyres would be a good idea. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
A few people want to stop the sale of budget tyres, but in these hard economic times, it would be unfair to restrict choice, especially as the paper with an EU directive I have in my hand ensures OOF members peace in our time as it is the compulsory winter tyre law, which will mean much more expense for motorists :P ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
There have been a lot of posts on here. Now if I was David Camoron, I would say: Good that's all settled then, the yes vote is clearly for winter tyres from October to March and pretty much everybody is in agreement that compulsory winter tyres would be a good idea. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
A few people want to stop the sale of budget tyres, but in these hard economic times, it would be unfair to restrict choice, especially as the paper with an EU directive I have in my hand ensures OOF members peace in our time as it is the compulsory winter tyre law, which will mean much more expense for motorists :P ;D ;D ;D ;D
86.6% say no to winter tyres rod
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It boils down to an informed choice, hence my earlier suggestion for a structured test of tyres which suit both budget and the Omega.
That way we can rule out the crap ones, both cheap and expensive.
A good all round tyre will always be a better choice than a pish winter one, regardless of where you live :y
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There have been a lot of posts on here. Now if I was David Camoron, I would say: Good that's all settled then, the yes vote is clearly for winter tyres from October to March and pretty much everybody is in agreement that compulsory winter tyres would be a good idea. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
A few people want to stop the sale of budget tyres, but in these hard economic times, it would be unfair to restrict choice, especially as the paper with an EU directive I have in my hand ensures OOF members peace in our time as it is the compulsory winter tyre law, which will mean much more expense for motorists :P ;D ;D ;D ;D
86.6% say no to winter tyres rod
Think he knows that. ;)
-
What about Spain then? Compulsory winter tyres there?
Throughout Europe? Don't be daft.
even in antalya it snows where summers exceed 46+ celicus.. it simply doesnt mater how is summer.. if temperature drops and its wet you se them.. only on equator line they dont have use..
yes because that's YOUR climate. Why on earth would you assume the rest if the world is the same? Frost in the am, dos not mean you need winter tyres. It's can be 10c by lunch time here.
You have your tires to suit your needs. DON'T try to enforce it elsewhere, where you have no experience of that climate.
We tried that in the crusades, and rightly learned a lesson. I suggest you try it cem. I wouldn't dare suggest banning winter tyres in a country I know nothing about.
In fact yes, I'll do a cem. Ready....
<cem mode on>
ALL WINTER TYRES SHOULD BE BANNED IN TURKEY. I know nothing about the country I've never been there other than on the Internet, yet I know best and everyone who lives there s wrong.
<cem mode off>
See? Don't be so bloody ridiculous.
what do you think, I live on mars ;D frost is frost, snow is snow, rain is rain and finally cold is cold in UK ::)
and your cars skid like ours and dont forget I can watch most of your roads on line.. so tell me something that I dont know..
You want a list? ;D
-
There have been a lot of posts on here. Now if I was David Camoron, I would say: Good that's all settled then, the yes vote is clearly for winter tyres from October to March and pretty much everybody is in agreement that compulsory winter tyres would be a good idea. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
A few people want to stop the sale of budget tyres, but in these hard economic times, it would be unfair to restrict choice, especially as the paper with an EU directive I have in my hand ensures OOF members peace in our time as it is the compulsory winter tyre law, which will mean much more expense for motorists :P ;D ;D ;D ;D
86.6% say no to winter tyres rod
Think he knows that. ;) :y :y :y :y
just reminding him ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
What about Spain then? Compulsory winter tyres there?
Throughout Europe? Don't be daft.
even in antalya it snows where summers exceed 46+ celicus.. it simply doesnt mater how is summer.. if temperature drops and its wet you se them.. only on equator line they dont have use..
yes because that's YOUR climate. Why on earth would you assume the rest if the world is the same? Frost in the am, dos not mean you need winter tyres. It's can be 10c by lunch time here.
You have your tires to suit your needs. DON'T try to enforce it elsewhere, where you have no experience of that climate.
We tried that in the crusades, and rightly learned a lesson. I suggest you try it cem. I wouldn't dare suggest banning winter tyres in a country I know nothing about.
In fact yes, I'll do a cem. Ready....
<cem mode on>
ALL WINTER TYRES SHOULD BE BANNED IN TURKEY. I know nothing about the country I've never been there other than on the Internet, yet I know best and everyone who lives there s wrong.
<cem mode off>
See? Don't be so bloody ridiculous.
what do you think, I live on mars ;D frost is frost, snow is snow, rain is rain and finally cold is cold in UK ::)
and your cars skid like ours and dont forget I can watch most of your roads on line.. so tell me something that I dont know..
You want a list? ;D
a list of knowns will be really boring.
-
There have been a lot of posts on here. Now if I was David Camoron, I would say: Good that's all settled then, the yes vote is clearly for winter tyres from October to March and pretty much everybody is in agreement that compulsory winter tyres would be a good idea. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
A few people want to stop the sale of budget tyres, but in these hard economic times, it would be unfair to restrict choice, especially as the paper with an EU directive I have in my hand ensures OOF members peace in our time as it is the compulsory winter tyre law, which will mean much more expense for motorists :P ;D ;D ;D ;D
86.6% say no to winter tyres rod
Think he knows that. ;) :y :y :y :y
just reminding him ;D ;D ;D ;D
Politicians didn't get to where they are today by take any notice of voters wishes. Ask the Southern Irish. ::)
If I don't get the correct result from this poll. I'll start another one with a slightly different question and answers next week ::) :o :o :o
That should keep the campaign managers of Mr cem, Mr D and Mr Gixer busy. :P ;D ;D ;D
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Ah Rods2, the old walk in, "drop one" , and walk out routine. Turks favourite trick I thought? ;D
-
Rods2 for President!!!
Of Ukraine!!! ;D ;D ;D
-
There have been a lot of posts on here. Now if I was David Camoron, I would say: Good that's all settled then, the yes vote is clearly for winter tyres from October to March and pretty much everybody is in agreement that compulsory winter tyres would be a good idea. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
A few people want to stop the sale of budget tyres, but in these hard economic times, it would be unfair to restrict choice, especially as the paper with an EU directive I have in my hand ensures OOF members peace in our time as it is the compulsory winter tyre law, which will mean much more expense for motorists :P ;D ;D ;D ;D
86.6% say no to winter tyres rod
Think he knows that. ;) :y :y :y :y
just reminding him ;D ;D ;D ;D
Politicians didn't get to where they are today by take any notice of voters wishes. Ask the Southern Irish. ::)
If I don't get the correct result from this poll. I'll start another one with a slightly different question and answers next week ::) :o :o :o
That should keep the campaign managers of Mr cem, Mr D and Mr Gixer busy. :P ;D ;D ;D
:y :y :y :y :y too right rod sombody has to keep them busy :y :y :y
sorry rod i wasnt been offish
-
There have been a lot of posts on here. Now if I was David Camoron, I would say: Good that's all settled then, the yes vote is clearly for winter tyres from October to March and pretty much everybody is in agreement that compulsory winter tyres would be a good idea. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
A few people want to stop the sale of budget tyres, but in these hard economic times, it would be unfair to restrict choice, especially as the paper with an EU directive I have in my hand ensures OOF members peace in our time as it is the compulsory winter tyre law, which will mean much more expense for motorists :P ;D ;D ;D ;D
86.6% say no to winter tyres rod
Think he knows that. ;) :y :y :y :y
just reminding him ;D ;D ;D ;D
Politicians didn't get to where they are today by take any notice of voters wishes. Ask the Southern Irish. ::)
If I don't get the correct result from this poll. I'll start another one with a slightly different question and answers next week ::) :o :o :o
That should keep the campaign managers of Mr cem, Mr D and Mr Gixer busy. :P ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D :y
-
There have been a lot of posts on here. Now if I was David Camoron, I would say: Good that's all settled then, the yes vote is clearly for winter tyres from October to March and pretty much everybody is in agreement that compulsory winter tyres would be a good idea. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
A few people want to stop the sale of budget tyres, but in these hard economic times, it would be unfair to restrict choice, especially as the paper with an EU directive I have in my hand ensures OOF members peace in our time as it is the compulsory winter tyre law, which will mean much more expense for motorists :P ;D ;D ;D ;D
86.6% say no to winter tyres rod
Think he knows that. ;) :y :y :y :y
just reminding him ;D ;D ;D ;D
Politicians didn't get to where they are today by take any notice of voters wishes. Ask the Southern Irish. ::)
If I don't get the correct result from this poll. I'll start another one with a slightly different question and answers next week ::) :o :o :o
That should keep the campaign managers of Mr cem, Mr D and Mr Gixer busy. :P ;D ;D ;D
:y :y :y :y :y too right rod sombody has to keep them busy :y :y :y
sorry rod i wasnt been offish
Taken in the light hearted spirit that was intended. :y :y :y
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Rods2 for President!!!
Of Ukraine!!! ;D ;D ;D
I know I sometimes live dangerously with the occasional comment on here, but I don't want to live that dangerously. :P ;D ;D ;D