Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Rog on 21 January 2013, 09:47:11
-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-21101217
This may seem a bit insensitive, but it seems to me that deaths in this area in snow or other poor conditions happen quite frequently, almost annually.
Why do people do it ? Is it stupidity, or bravado, or over confidence ?
The equation is easy Mountain + Snow = Significant Danger
-
I take it you have never done any mountain climbing or snow training then?
No more dangerous than any other sport, but you do need to be prepared and properly trained as well as having the correct kit. I believe that these guys had it all, they had experience, they were just unlucky. Accidents do happen.
I am mountain leader trained and love taking groups up mountains or walks or scrambles up dry waterfalls (in summer). Helmets, ropes, harnesses, warm gear, wet gear, first aid kit, rations, water, map, gps , compass, plb and airhorn are all part of my standard kit. The sense of achievement people get out of it is fantastic.
-
Going buy the film TT about the Isle of Man races, they do it because of the danger, as opposed to in spite of it.
Risk takers, thrill seakers, explorers, whatever. If it wasn't for these mentalities we'd still be hunter gatherers looking for berries, probably. We all take risks. The only question is how big a risk. They gambled, same as they did a hundred times before I guess.
We're not exactly an endangered species after all.
-
I'm sure no one really knows how many died when climbing mountains.. as some of them was never found..
hats of to those who have courage to fight with nature.. but when you make even a small mistake, you pay with your life..
-
I'm all for calculated risk taking and having fun, extreme stuff etc, but to a degree. All the training, equipment and preparedness in the world won't stop a few thousand tonnes of snow falling on your head. It's sad that they died but selfish (rescuers to get them, or body recovery, and poor family).
-
I'm all for calculated risk taking and having fun, extreme stuff etc, but to a degree. All the training, equipment and preparedness in the world won't stop a few thousand tonnes of snow falling on your head. It's sad that they died but selfish (rescuers to get them, or body recovery, and poor family).
You can say that about any recreational past-time. I am sure they didn't go out to deliberately perish, or put themselves at unecessary risk. Avalaches are unpredictable in their nature. Are you saying they went up there knowing it was going to break and fall on to them?
Are helicopter pilots selfish for flying over London just because one crashed and sadly caused a number of deaths and injuries? They could go around, or they could just not fly all-together.
Aer we that risk averse as a nation? If so let me the f%#k out of here sharpish! :'(
-
No I'm not saying they went up there knowing the snow was going to fall on them, I'm not telepathic, shy speculate? In this case the risk (high) and the potential harm (high), made it wrong for them to go up there. If it only affected them fine, but it doesn't. You might as well
-
play Russian roulette, in this instance, they lost.
I'm not saying we're risk averse as a nation. How would you come to that conclusion that from one statement I made about one event? Like I said, calculated risk, not stupidly ignoring the dangers.
-
I take it you have never done any mountain climbing or snow training then?
No more dangerous than any other sport, but you do need to be prepared and properly trained as well as having the correct kit. I believe that these guys had it all, they had experience, they were just unlucky. Accidents do happen.
I am mountain leader trained and love taking groups up mountains or walks or scrambles up dry waterfalls (in summer). Helmets, ropes, harnesses, warm gear, wet gear, first aid kit, rations, water, map, gps , compass, plb and airhorn are all part of my standard kit. The sense of achievement people get out of it is fantastic.
I think that this explains it quite succinctly. :y :y
People do all sorts of thing for enjoyment and fair play to them, if they wish to risk life and limb then it is up to them. My neighbour is totally mad, he and friends go Wild Camping in Derbyshire but only in really extreme weather conditions and expects me to look after his cat ::) ;D ;D
What does get my goat is those who are totally unprepared for any activity and then put others at risk when they get into difficulty >:(
It this case it appears to be a tragic accident that no one could predict or avoid, at least they perished doing something they enjoyed. :( :(
-
I'm all for calculated risk taking and having fun, extreme stuff etc, but to a degree. All the training, equipment and preparedness in the world won't stop a few thousand tonnes of snow falling on your head. It's sad that they died but selfish (rescuers to get them, or body recovery, and poor family).
You can say that about any recreational past-time. I am sure they didn't go out to deliberately perish, or put themselves at unecessary risk. Avalaches are unpredictable in their nature. Are you saying they went up there knowing it was going to break and fall on to them?
Are helicopter pilots selfish for flying over London just because one crashed and sadly caused a number of deaths and injuries? They could go around, or they could just not fly all-together.
Aer we that risk averse as a nation? If so let me the f%#k out of here sharpish! :'(
All very true, including your first posting Guffer. ! :y :y :y :y :y :y
Life is a risk. Driving is a risk. Walking on pavements is a risk. Going downstairs is a risk. When we are first conceived and born is a risk. Giving birth is a risk. etc,etc,etc,etc; everything we do is a risk. But that is living, and "dangerous" sports is really living and tasting life to the full! :y :y :y :y :y
I have taken huge risks in my life and lived, and I would do it all again to enjoy life as I do not want to die thinking "what have I achieved?" We are all going to die sometime, and fate / God will decide when, so go for it in the meantime!! 8) 8) 8) 8) :-* :-* :-* :-* :y :y :y :y :y
-
I dont believe in calculated risk.. murphy rules says shit happens always..
-
I'm all for calculated risk taking and having fun, extreme stuff etc, but to a degree. All the training, equipment and preparedness in the world won't stop a few thousand tonnes of snow falling on your head. It's sad that they died but selfish (rescuers to get them, or body recovery, and poor family).
You can say that about any recreational past-time. I am sure they didn't go out to deliberately perish, or put themselves at unecessary risk. Avalaches are unpredictable in their nature. Are you saying they went up there knowing it was going to break and fall on to them?
Are helicopter pilots selfish for flying over London just because one crashed and sadly caused a number of deaths and injuries? They could go around, or they could just not fly all-together.
Aer we that risk averse as a nation? If so let me the f%#k out of here sharpish! :'(
All very true, including your first posting Guffer. ! :y :y :y :y :y :y
Life is a risk. Driving is a risk. Walking on pavements is a risk. Going downstairs is a risk. When we are first conceived and born is a risk. Giving birth is a risk. etc,etc,etc,etc; everything we do is a risk. But that is living, and "dangerous" sports is really living and tasting life to the full! :y :y :y :y :y
I have taken huge risks in my life and lived, and I would do it all again to enjoy life as I do not want to die thinking "what have I achieved?" We are all going to die sometime, and fate / God will decide when, so go for it in the meantime!! 8) 8) 8) 8) :-* :-* :-* :-* :y :y :y :y :y
thats correct Lizzie.. But what happens when you decide to play Russian roulette with 6 holes full of bullets ;D
-
I'm all for calculated risk taking and having fun, extreme stuff etc, but to a degree. All the training, equipment and preparedness in the world won't stop a few thousand tonnes of snow falling on your head. It's sad that they died but selfish (rescuers to get them, or body recovery, and poor family).
You can say that about any recreational past-time. I am sure they didn't go out to deliberately perish, or put themselves at unecessary risk. Avalaches are unpredictable in their nature. Are you saying they went up there knowing it was going to break and fall on to them?
Are helicopter pilots selfish for flying over London just because one crashed and sadly caused a number of deaths and injuries? They could go around, or they could just not fly all-together.
Aer we that risk averse as a nation? If so let me the f%#k out of here sharpish! :'(
All very true, including your first posting Guffer. ! :y :y :y :y :y :y
Life is a risk. Driving is a risk. Walking on pavements is a risk. Going downstairs is a risk. When we are first conceived and born is a risk. Giving birth is a risk. etc,etc,etc,etc; everything we do is a risk. But that is living, and "dangerous" sports is really living and tasting life to the full! :y :y :y :y :y
I have taken huge risks in my life and lived, and I would do it all again to enjoy life as I do not want to die thinking "what have I achieved?" We are all going to die sometime, and fate / God will decide when, so go for it in the meantime!! 8) 8) 8) 8) :-* :-* :-* :-* :y :y :y :y :y
thats correct Lizzie.. But what happens when you decide to play Russian roulette with 6 holes full of bullets ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Well you die, but at least you have played! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
-
Well, if you go up a mountain in bad weather, with an avalanche warning, you're bloody stupid, they should have expected it. Fools
-
Well, if you go up a mountain in bad weather, with an avalanche warning, you're bloody stupid, they should have expected it. Fools
..and if mankind never had people who are prepared to take calculated risks we'd never have come down from living in the trees. ;)
-
Man is a risk taking animal and we most of take risks in our everyday lives. To say you can take this risk but not that risk is the nanny state at the extreme. >:( >:( >:(
To say they are putting the rescuers at risk is also to me demeaning them as they volunteer to do the job, knowing their are risks involved. It is the same with marshaling at motor race meetings, etc, etc.
In this country we tend to put people down for taking risks and failing, where as in the US the mentality is I might of failed this time, but I will succeed next time, whether in business, sport or leisure and you will get a slap on the back and good luck, as this is the US can do attitude.
In the US starting a business, being successful and making big profits, so you are rich is living the American dream and is applauded, over here you get called rude names, get envy stripes down your car and whose only useful social function is to pay taxes. So is it any surprise that the US economy is 3% bigger than 2008 and ours in 3% smaller, with the defeatist attitudes in this country.
In sport, we showed in the Olympic and paraOlympics what we can do by taking risks, which created great pride and happiness in much of the nation. We need more support of risk takers is all walks of life as on the whole they better life and society.
RIP to the mountaineers who have sadly lost their lives, this weekend. They were right to take the calculated risks, sadly they have paid the price of the unexpected. :'(
-
a risk is worth taking if there is a valuable income..
tell me whats the income for climbing a snowy, frosty , rocky heap..
feeling "I conquer this!"..
-
a risk is worth taking if there is a valuable income..
tell me whats the income for climbing a snowy, frosty , rocky heap..
feeling "I conquer this!"..
The pure joy of doing it Cem. Of living and knowing it! :y :y :y
Some / many things are far greater than any monetary worth! ;)
-
a risk is worth taking if there is a valuable income..
tell me whats the income for climbing a snowy, frosty , rocky heap..
feeling "I conquer this!"..
Most people that are very successful in business, the money is very nice and reward for the risks, but I built the business and conquered the market, where I beat the competition gives great satisfaction. :y :y :y
-
Man is a risk taking animal and we most of take risks in our everyday lives. To say you can take this risk but not that risk is the nanny state at the extreme. >:( >:( >:(
To say they are putting the rescuers at risk is also to me demeaning them as they volunteer to do the job, knowing their are risks involved. It is the same with marshaling at motor race meetings, etc, etc.
In this country we tend to put people down for taking risks and failing, where as in the US the mentality is I might of failed this time, but I will succeed next time, whether in business, sport or leisure and you will get a slap on the back and good luck, as this is the US can do attitude.
In the US starting a business, being successful and making big profits, so you are rich is living the American dream and is applauded, over here you get called rude names, get envy stripes down your car and whose only useful social function is to pay taxes. So is it any surprise that the US economy is 3% bigger than 2008 and ours in 3% smaller, with the defeatist attitudes in this country.
In sport, we showed in the Olympic and paraOlympics what we can do by taking risks, which created great pride and happiness in much of the nation. We need more support of risk takers is all walks of life as on the whole they better life and society.
RIP to the mountaineers who have sadly lost their lives, this weekend. They were right to take the calculated risks, sadly they have paid the price of the unexpected. :'(
I used to be a member of BMRMC and loved it, bit of a challenge setting up a stage at midnight in the Dolby forest with first cars through at 04.00 in the middle of winter. Headlights and glowing brake discs reflecting the snow, flask in pocket to keep warm ::). Had some great times from training days, RAC, Mintex and clubman rallies to the British GP, some dedicate people who keep motor sport alive. The only reason I gave up was through idiot spectators who became abusive and used bad language towards me when I would ask them not to stand on the outside of a 90% bend for their own safety. In the end I gave up, if they want to die let them, shortly after some spectators were killed, I felt sorry for the driver and co-driver . If I remember correctly, they then had closed stages and spectator special stages.
-
a risk is worth taking if there is a valuable income..
tell me whats the income for climbing a snowy, frosty , rocky heap..
feeling "I conquer this!"..
The pure joy of doing it Cem. Of living and knowing it! :y :y :y
Some / many things are far greater than any monetary worth! ;)
I have more joy sitting in a hot comfortable home than freezing my ar** in a snowy mountain.. ;D
sorry Lizzie :y
-
a risk is worth taking if there is a valuable income..
tell me whats the income for climbing a snowy, frosty , rocky heap..
feeling "I conquer this!"..
The pure joy of doing it Cem. Of living and knowing it! :y :y :y
Some / many things are far greater than any monetary worth! ;)
I have more joy sitting in a hot comfortable home than freezing my ar** in a snowy mountain.. ;D
sorry Lizzie :y
That's all right Cem...............you big softy! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
Nothing better than sailing or canoeing for me and getting dumped in lovely cold sea or river water. Lovelyyyyyyyyyyy!! :D :D :D ;)
PS In my early childhood days we only had an outside toilet. I tell you, in the winter that WAS a risk!! ::) ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D
-
this thread could get a bit messy - more people than you think lose their lives in places like Ben Nevis for example - usually from being underprepared in kit terms or under researched - for example Five Finger Gully on Ben Nevis claims a lot of victims when cloud comes in and people think they are on the main path without GPS etc and it just drops them off the edge.
If anyone ventures into these things less than well prepared and more importantly convinces others that they know what they are doing then there is a responsibility to be discharged.
I saw so many on Ben Nevis not really prepared - not saying that the current tragedy was because of this but basically there is no easy conclusions that you can draw - this group may have been well prepared but just unlucky.
If mountaineering floats your boat and your family responsibilities are catered for if you snuff it then so be it..
-
mountain climbs are made in summer iirc..