Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: John-R on 23 January 2013, 11:41:21

Title: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: John-R on 23 January 2013, 11:41:21
Hi All.

Just looking for some advice regarding oil.

Back in September 2010 the Darth Lord performed miracles on my (6 months owned by me) Mig and gave it a new lease of life. Some of you may remember the pictures he posted under "Why Oil Changes Are Important".
Since then I have had a morbid fear of such a thing happening again and have taken the advice of 5,000mile oil changes religiously.

Due to high fuel costs and the type of journeys I now do, the Mig usually stays laid up and comes out to play on the occassional weekend. Over the last few weeks I have noticed a distinct top-end rattle when I start the engine which usually settles down after a few minutes.
Being scared stiff I usually let it idle for those few minutes rather than have it rattling while driving. When it's warm it drives and sounds like a dream.

Now my question is, is this normal at this time of year in the colder than usual weather or has the fact that the Mig is little used contributed to this? Does the oil "thicken" with irregular use and would this have a knock on effect (no pun intended) on the rest of the oil circulation path - ie pick up pipes etc.

I've done 4,500 since last oil change but that was in March 2012 so due for a change soon, just wondering if fresh oil would clean the system or if I need to add anything to help at the next change.

Thanks
John
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Andy B on 23 January 2013, 11:43:28
If the noise goes shortly after starting I'd say it was a sticky hydraulic lifter (tappet)  :-\  ;)
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 23 January 2013, 12:24:28
I'd say, on a car laid-up for a while, a noisy lifter for a minute or two after startup is nothing to worry about.

You may well find some fresh oil helps, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if it quietens down quickly.
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: feeutfo on 23 January 2013, 12:43:54
Normal course would be change the oil and add wynns lifter treatment. Leave it in for the duration of the next oil change. Noise should subside after a while.


Lifter noise is nothing to worry about mechanically, at the level you describe.


Lack of use and cold weather won't help, certainly.
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: car5car on 23 January 2013, 13:18:19
Add 1 quart of ATF and run engine 5 min before draining oil.
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 23 January 2013, 13:46:19
Dont think i woudl go down the ATF route given we dont know how well the engine seals will react to it.

As for the noisy lifter, if its sat idle for some time then its easy enough for a lifter to bleed down so nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: car5car on 23 January 2013, 13:55:11
Mark is right. ATF dissolves dirt, and if crank seals have dirt, preventing them from leaking, it will not be there anymore.
"Stop leak" additive softens seals rubber.
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: feeutfo on 23 January 2013, 15:42:25
Mark is right. ATF dissolves dirt, and if crank seals have dirt, preventing them from leaking, it will not be there anymore.
"Stop leak" additive softens seals rubber.
Mr car. When in a hole, stop digging. ;D ;)
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: dbug on 23 January 2013, 21:21:29
Mark is right. ATF dissolves dirt, and if crank seals have dirt, preventing them from leaking, it will not be there anymore.
"Stop leak" additive softens seals rubber.
Mr car. When in a hole, stop digging. ;D ;)

Think this guy is Rusty's American cousin  :o
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: omegod on 23 January 2013, 22:39:01
John mine has been lifter rattling for 4 years, change oil,add wynns,forget noise,turn radio up,drive it more. I wish mine was as smooth as your's was the other week!!

Give me a shout if you want the VX/Halfords trade cards
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Webby the Bear on 23 January 2013, 22:43:06
Add 1 quart of ATF and run engine 5 min before draining oil.

LOL!!! is this what we call just over a litre?  ::) ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Andy B on 23 January 2013, 22:48:10
Add 1 quart of ATF and run engine 5 min before draining oil.

LOL!!! is this what we call just over a litre?  ::) ;D ;D ;D

C'mon ..... I know you're only young, but you must surely know imperial unit!  ;) ;) A 'quart' is a quarter of a gallon ie 2 pints bear in mind though that a US pint is smaller than ours because it's only 16 fl oz (fluid ounce) & 'ours' is 20 fl oz  :y :y
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: John-R on 23 January 2013, 22:52:18
John mine has been lifter rattling for 4 years, change oil,add wynns,forget noise,turn radio up,drive it more. I wish mine was as smooth as your's was the other week!!

Give me a shout if you want the VX/Halfords trade cards

Haha.
You see - paranoia setting in - comes with age.

Thanks for the cards offer - might wait 'til the snow's gone.
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Webby the Bear on 23 January 2013, 22:52:37
Add 1 quart of ATF and run engine 5 min before draining oil.

LOL!!! is this what we call just over a litre?  ::) ;D ;D ;D

C'mon ..... I know you're only young, but you must surely know imperial unit!  ;) ;) A 'quart' is a quarter of a gallon ie 2 pints bear in mind though that a US pint is smaller than ours because it's only 16 fl oz (fluid ounce) & 'ours' is 20 fl oz  :y :y

lol, so is one quart not just over a litre then?
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Webby the Bear on 23 January 2013, 22:55:52
As for the query (sorry got side tracked with folk of a bear-shooting nature  :D) i get it too when its this cold. doesn't last as long as 5 minutes (prob 1 minute) then sounds smooth.

it only does it in this weather so i'd gues that it must be something to do with the state of the oil in the cold that we're in.
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Entwood on 23 January 2013, 22:57:17
Add 1 quart of ATF and run engine 5 min before draining oil.

LOL!!! is this what we call just over a litre?  ::) ;D ;D ;D

C'mon ..... I know you're only young, but you must surely know imperial unit!  ;) ;) A 'quart' is a quarter of a gallon ie 2 pints bear in mind though that a US pint is smaller than ours because it's only 16 fl oz (fluid ounce) & 'ours' is 20 fl oz  :y :y

lol, so is one quart not just over a litre then?

Nope .. as the poster is in the US of A ...

2 US pints = 1 US quart = .946 litres which is UNDER a litre

if he was in the UK .....

2 Imperial pints = 1 imperial quart = 1.137 litres .. which would be just over a litre

:)

so HIS quart is not the same as YOUR quart

:)
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Webby the Bear on 23 January 2013, 23:00:13
Add 1 quart of ATF and run engine 5 min before draining oil.

LOL!!! is this what we call just over a litre?  ::) ;D ;D ;D

C'mon ..... I know you're only young, but you must surely know imperial unit!  ;) ;) A 'quart' is a quarter of a gallon ie 2 pints bear in mind though that a US pint is smaller than ours because it's only 16 fl oz (fluid ounce) & 'ours' is 20 fl oz  :y :y

lol, so is one quart not just over a litre then?

Nope .. as the poster is in the US of A ...

2 US pints = 1 US quart = .946 litres which is UNDER a litre

if he was in the UK .....

2 Imperial pints = 1 imperial quart = 1.137 litres .. which would be just over a litre

:)

so HIS quart is not the same as YOUR quart

:)

a wealth of knowledge there mate.  :y
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Andy B on 23 January 2013, 23:08:15
Add 1 quart of ATF and run engine 5 min before draining oil.

LOL!!! is this what we call just over a litre?  ::) ;D ;D ;D

C'mon ..... I know you're only young, but you must surely know imperial unit!  ;) ;) A 'quart' is a quarter of a gallon ie 2 pints bear in mind though that a US pint is smaller than ours because it's only 16 fl oz (fluid ounce) & 'ours' is 20 fl oz  :y :y

lol, so is one quart not just over a litre then?

Nope .. as the poster is in the US of A ...

2 US pints = 1 US quart = .946 litres which is UNDER a litre

if he was in the UK .....

2 Imperial pints = 1 imperial quart = 1.137 litres .. which would be just over a litre

:)

so HIS quart is not the same as YOUR quart

:)

Is that not what I said  ::) ........ I managed to avoid those nasty metric units & answer WHY the US quart is smaller than ours  ;) ;)
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Webby the Bear on 23 January 2013, 23:15:11
Add 1 quart of ATF and run engine 5 min before draining oil.

LOL!!! is this what we call just over a litre?  ::) ;D ;D ;D

C'mon ..... I know you're only young, but you must surely know imperial unit!  ;) ;) A 'quart' is a quarter of a gallon ie 2 pints bear in mind though that a US pint is smaller than ours because it's only 16 fl oz (fluid ounce) & 'ours' is 20 fl oz  :y :y

lol, so is one quart not just over a litre then?

Nope .. as the poster is in the US of A ...

2 US pints = 1 US quart = .946 litres which is UNDER a litre

if he was in the UK .....

2 Imperial pints = 1 imperial quart = 1.137 litres .. which would be just over a litre

:)

so HIS quart is not the same as YOUR quart

:)

Is that not what I said  ::) ........ I managed to avoid those nasty metric units & answer WHY the US quart is smaller than ours  ;) ;)

lol yes you did mate, apologies. todays bear prize split  :D
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Andy B on 23 January 2013, 23:19:44
....
lol yes you did mate, apologies. todays bear prize split  :D

No need ..... I was pulling Nige's leg  ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: feeutfo on 23 January 2013, 23:25:14
Ffs, we're not debating "how much" ATF to put in an engine, are we? Surely!


The answer to which is obviously, none at all. ::)
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: car5car on 24 January 2013, 01:02:43
I used ATF in engines for about 18 years. I repaired my first engine about 18 years ago. I will change oil in my Catera soon. I will use 20W50 engine and a pint of ATF.
ATF works fine in cars with steering wheel on left side. ;D
Do you use metric system in UK?
km, liters?
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 24 January 2013, 08:25:18
I used ATF in engines for about 18 years. I repaired my first engine about 18 years ago. I will change oil in my Catera soon. I will use 20W50 engine and a pint of ATF.
ATF works fine in cars with steering wheel on left side. ;D
Do you use metric system in UK?
km, liters?

Yes just like pretty much the rest of the planet...  :y :y
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Entwood on 24 January 2013, 09:42:06
I used ATF in engines for about 18 years. I repaired my first engine about 18 years ago. I will change oil in my Catera soon. I will use 20W50 engine and a pint of ATF.
ATF works fine in cars with steering wheel on left side. ;D
Do you use metric system in UK?
km, liters?

Nope ... :)

Like the majority of the world we use "litres" ......     :)
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Abiton on 24 January 2013, 10:02:26
And miles.  :y
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: robson on 24 January 2013, 10:48:07
Except for Beer
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Steve B on 24 January 2013, 11:28:34
Except for Beer
then its the slate or tick  ;) ;) ;) ;D
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: omega3000 on 24 January 2013, 11:29:07
I used ATF in engines for about 18 years. I repaired my first engine about 18 years ago. I will change oil in my Catera soon. I will use 20W50 engine and a pint of ATF.
ATF works fine in cars with steering wheel on left side. ;D
Do you use metric system in UK?
km, liters?


 ;D

Have you tried putting sawdust in a diff to cure the noise  ;D
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Andy B on 24 January 2013, 11:35:44
...
Do you use metric system in UK?
km, liters?

The powers that be have been trying to convert us to the metric system for over 30 years, but we're stubborn buggers. The speed limits on the roads are in miles per hour, we generally weigh ourselves in stones (14lbs + 1 stone) we buy beer in pints and although we buy our fuel in litres, we all work our car's fuel consumption out in mpg. If you venture into McDonalds, we buy 1/4lb burgers - Pulp Fiction clip  ;)
If it's cold out, them we'll say it's -5 deg (C) but if it's hot, people will say 'Phew! It's in the 80s'  ::)  ::)
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: car5car on 24 January 2013, 14:37:56


Have you tried putting sawdust in a diff to cure the noise  ;D
Not yet.:)
When I removed valve cover from my Jeep with about 200K miles, rocker arms were yellow, very clean.
Do you want a picture of cylinder heads I work on today? Owner never used ATF to keep engine clean. ;D
If you don't take care of your engine, mechanic will.:)
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: dbug on 24 January 2013, 15:01:10
Adding ATF to oil is an old trick many people have used for years. It can be harmful to an engine that's under load, because ATF only has a very low viscosity, that's light for bearings in an engine. You can add it and just let it idle for about 30 minutes before draining the oil. Or use a flushing oil or add a pint of kerosine before an oil change - all old tricks, all will "clean" the engine internals.  However the best approach with modern engines is to use a good quality oil and that with regular oil and filter changes will virtually eliminate any engine getting "gunk-ed up."

I would also question what kind of an effect doing this could possibly have on a catalytic converter.

If it was so good pehaps the oil companies, with all their money and technical resources, would have incorporated ATF into motor oils! ::)

IMO about as much long term use as sawdust in a gearbox or diff, or even a chocolate teapot ;)

A true Rustyism  ;)
Title: Re: OIL - Why Am I So Scared ??
Post by: Entwood on 24 January 2013, 15:09:21
ATF/Flushing oil/Kerosene/Whatever .. anything added to an oil to "clean" the engine is possibly good .. but on one condition and one condition only ..... it must have been used regularly since the engine was first built.

Using it as a "one shot" on an old engine is potentially lethal to the engine ... the "dirt" in the engine will have formed a fairly hard "coating" and will NOT just be a thick "sludge" .. the cleaning agent - whatever it is - does not "dissolve" this coating .. it releases it from the metal in lumps ... any one of these lumps - large or small - can get into an oilway and block it.

From then on the engine life is severely curtailed

As the oilway is blocked no oil flows through and 3 things occur ... no "cleaning" can take place as there is no flow .... followed by no lubrication followed by overheating ....

Not rocket science .. simple physics

Numerous quick oil changes are far better as these will be more likely to dissolve the crud slowly and not release it in lumps.