Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Danny on 03 May 2008, 13:49:38
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AS some of you will know, my car has an LPG conversion which was quite cheap, and i'm starting to believe that even at £1250 i got less than my money's worth
a few off the record opinions tell me that the forever lumpy idle (on gas) is most likely due to the injectors being placed at the front of the plenum (put there to make it look tidy).
when driving it runs pretty well on LPG but feels like it splutters a bit when i'm on the pedal (slightly heavy but not flooring it) especially going up hill. its been back to the garage several times, even when they say they'll sort it for me for the next day its invariably there the whole week, and comes back to me still with the same problem
the gas fuel gauge always said empty even when full, they sorted this out, so i thought, but it then said always full until it ran out. they also backed my car into the wall once when parking it, and have yet to repair the scuff, allbeit very minor (but thats not the point!).
if the rough idle is due to the bad injector position, re-situating would still leave the drilled holes on the front of the manifold..... correct? (would this also be the case if i wanted a full refund and the LPG kit ripped out?) ANYWAY they have the car, they can keep it for the next couple of weeks to carry out repairs for all I care since i can use my dad's cut-n-shut fiesta for 2 weeks
I shant expect to get it back working properly going by their track record, and have notified trading standards already asking for advice if the original problems are still there
anyone else have any thoughts on the matter? dont feel you need to offer any sympathy, its really not what i'm after, just feel like keeping people informed, might even be a good project for someone as i'm considering selling it very soon :y (words cant explain how much i'll miss it, its only the prospect of me actually getting rid thats really hitting me how fantastic the car is and what it means to me)
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I dont know if the position of the injectors is causing a problem in your case........but id be inclined to find out what size injectors they used......this is important to get the right amount of lpg.......altho i guess this can be overcome to a certain stage by upping/lowering the lpg pressure.
Is the evapourator getting hot enough? Should be so hot you carnt keep your hand on it.
Just a couple of ideas.....hth
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what kind of setup is it?
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The other thing to bear in mind is that the injectors and nozzles will be separate, unlike with petrol injectors. The nozzles should be located in each intake close to the petrol injectors and connected to the LPG injectors via a short length of pipe. The locaton of the injectors is therefore not that cirtical. However, they should be positioned to allow an equal length, and short as possible, run of pipe to the nozzle. The injector location doesn't seem ideal in that respect.
Without knowing where they've put the nozzles it's difficult to know if that's the problem. Air leaks where they've installed the nozzles, or anywhere else, could also be an issue.
If they've muddled up the wiring to the injectors so they're out of sequence it could cause lumpy running too.
On the other hand, it could be that it's just not been mapped that accurately and is running a little lean, although the lambda correction loop should sort that out, or put on the EML. :-/
Do you have the software and lead to change the mapping or did they not supply that? It's a shame you're not closer because I'm sure it could be sorted relatively easily.
Kevin
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I have no software and if i did i wouldnt know how to use it!
the EML does come on quite abit on gas, and tends to go out when i put my foot down
I havent seen what goes from the injectors regarding the pipe
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Danny i really do think that the guys who are doing the job really have not got a scooby doo what they are doing.
I dont profess to be an expert on LPG kits, and i have only fitted the ne, however my sucess rate does appear to be better than thiers.
what system is it that you have fitted? one you have found that out then i would try and find a friendly company who ill supply you with the software and a connector lead to you can then hook it up to a lappy and get some readings.
other questions i would be asking the fitters are what size has the injectors been drilled out to, i know the kit i bought i accidentally over looked this and boy did it run rough!!!!!
where they mount the injectors should have no reason for the rough running, the question i would be asking them is where have they placed the nozells in the inlet manifold
it's a shame your not closer mate, i'm no expert but i wouldn't mind betting with a bit of time and some sensible thinking it could be made to run right
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AFAIR it is OMVL
A bit of an odd installation.
Needs some time spent sorting it
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the time is just something i dont have, hence my contact with trading standards, who have yet to reply
its an OMVL Dream 21 system
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I had lots of probs when I bought mine (already converted).
Having it remapped has worked a treat - runs as well on lpg as it does petrol.
Also new plugs and leads have helped no end.
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My system is a "Stefanelli Sequential" fitted by C.G. Gas conversions of Peterborough. I bought the car from Automotive Solutions in Grimsby, 2nd gas car from them and it runs like a dream.:)
Hope you get yours sorted.
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Again not an LPG expert but have been driving a couple now.
Rough idle, pulling away, hill climbs seem to be the dreaded with some vechiles, spoke to a few So Called LPG experts now (picking thier Brains) all come back with so called common problems which didn't fix mine.
What I have learnt is that your petrol Engine needs to be running spot on, common faults seem to be, Spark Plugs, Leads (Diss Pak), Air Filter and particullar attention to Vacum Pipes and Hoses, where this would not partically show up when running on Petrol.
Having said all that mine one turned out to be a hair line crack on the exhaust manifold, apparently causing strange things with one of the Exhaust Valves ???.
A look at the Re Map wouldn't go a miss, but as said before the Engine will need to be running perfect before changing the Mapping.
Hope any of this helps.
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i'm left only thinking air leaks may be the main problem then
it had new plugs and leads prior to the conversion, as advised, and since the car as a whole was running perfectly before the conversion apart from what i thought was low-ish mpg round town
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Any fault codes stored Danny?
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Not sure Danny, worth checking for Air Leaks though.
Petrol gets sucked in with air, where as Gas is also introduced under its own preasure, also worth checking if you can smell Gas any where (missing), even as you driving along (through the Air Vents).
Wish you luck mate, my ones been driving me crazy.
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Sounds to me like they haven't done a very thorough job of mapping it. If it runs OK on petrol air leaks are unlikely, I'd say. If the EML is coming on it's likely to be because the closed loop fuel trim is going out of limits due to an inaccurate mixture on gas. I would paperclip it and see what codes you get.
Kevin
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when we first did the install on mine m setup was a little lean on cruising.
As a result i used to get the EML on, a boot full of throttle saw it disappear but it wold still appear from time to time.
remap sorted mine out, and the LPG MPG went up as well
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I've got the software here. ;) ;)
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when we first did the install on mine m setup was a little lean on cruising.
As a result i used to get the EML on, a boot full of throttle saw it disappear but it wold still appear from time to time.
remap sorted mine out, and the LPG MPG went up as well
thats EXACTLY the fault mine has, plus the lumpy idle!! what do you mean by "m setup" though?
Any fault codes stored Danny?
not with the car for 2 weeks so unable to paperclip yet
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when we first did the install on mine m setup was a little lean on cruising.
As a result i used to get the EML on, a boot full of throttle saw it disappear but it wold still appear from time to time.
remap sorted mine out, and the LPG MPG went up as well
thats EXACTLY the fault mine has, plus the lumpy idle!! what do you mean by "m setup" though?
Any fault codes stored Danny?
not with the car for 2 weeks so unable to paperclip yet
Can read and clear them for you if you want with my cheapy tech2.
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when we first did the install on mine m setup was a little lean on cruising.
As a result i used to get the EML on, a boot full of throttle saw it disappear but it wold still appear from time to time.
remap sorted mine out, and the LPG MPG went up as well
thats EXACTLY the fault mine has, plus the lumpy idle!! what do you mean by "m setup" though?
Any fault codes stored Danny?
not with the car for 2 weeks so unable to paperclip yet
Can read and clear them for you if you want with my cheapy tech2.
shall pay you a visit when i get it back then :y do you take alcohol as currency for payment?? ;D
might also find any other possible faults (tho i have no reason to believe there are any since its ran so well before gas!)
i might be less inclined to sell so soon if the overall MPG is improved, but then at the same time, i still do too many short journeys in it!
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If I were you I'd get hold of the software and cable to talk to the LPG ECU and a willing volunteer to sit in the passenger seat and try to map it a little better - assuming the supplier can't resolve the issues. I wouldn't be surprised if that's all it needs.
Kevin
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If I were you I'd get hold of the software and cable to talk to the LPG ECU and a willing volunteer to sit in the passenger seat and try to map it a little better - assuming the supplier can't resolve the issues. I wouldn't be surprised if that's all it needs.
Kevin
I've offered the software! Don't want any payment for it! You can get the leads and interface off ebay or if you can find someone on the forum with an interface that fits any of these systems...
AC STAG 100
AG RAZMUS, SIROCCO
BIGAS SGIS N, ELC '92, ELC PEGASO
D.T. GAS DATEC BASIC, DATEC SUPER, GAS-TECH
EMMEGAS ICS-03,
ELPIGAZ VOILA PLUS, STELLA/ELIZA, MILENIUM, NICOLAUS, LEONARDO
KME BINGO, DIEGO
PROTEC DIGITAL ORION
ROMANO RIS
OMVL DREAM XXI N
...you'll be able to connect it with the software - the adapter is the same for all of them.
I'd offer you mine but I'm in Scotland. :y
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If I were you I'd get hold of the software and cable to talk to the LPG ECU and a willing volunteer to sit in the passenger seat and try to map it a little better - assuming the supplier can't resolve the issues. I wouldn't be surprised if that's all it needs.
Kevin
I've offered the software! Don't want any payment for it! You can get the leads and interface off ebay or if you can find someone on the forum with an interface that fits any of these systems...
AC STAG 100
AG RAZMUS, SIROCCO
BIGAS SGIS N, ELC '92, ELC PEGASO
D.T. GAS DATEC BASIC, DATEC SUPER, GAS-TECH
EMMEGAS ICS-03,
ELPIGAZ VOILA PLUS, STELLA/ELIZA, MILENIUM, NICOLAUS, LEONARDO
KME BINGO, DIEGO
PROTEC DIGITAL ORION
ROMANO RIS
OMVL DREAM XXI N
...you'll be able to connect it with the software - the adapter is the same for all of them.
I'd offer you mine but I'm in Scotland. :y
its very much appreciated, but while i'm in dispute with the installers i cant have any 3rd party involvement with it yet so my best option for now is to forward these thoughts about it running lean and asking for it to be remapped! (not to mention glasgow's a tad far :D)
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No worries mate but if you need a copy of the software you know where to ask. Reckon it would fit in an email??? ;) ;)
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its very much appreciated, but while i'm in dispute with the installers i cant have any 3rd party involvement with it yet so my best option for now is to forward these thoughts about it running lean and asking for it to be remapped! (not to mention glasgow's a tad far :D)
A wise move. I wouldn't dive in and change anything yet because the ECUs do record when someone gets in and changes settings, but if it doesn't get resolved to your satisfaction once things have run their course the option's there.
As I said, it's a shame you're so far away. Not going to the Lakes meet, I suppose?
Kevin
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its very much appreciated, but while i'm in dispute with the installers i cant have any 3rd party involvement with it yet so my best option for now is to forward these thoughts about it running lean and asking for it to be remapped! (not to mention glasgow's a tad far :D)
A wise move. I wouldn't dive in and change anything yet because the ECUs do record when someone gets in and changes settings, but if it doesn't get resolved to your satisfaction once things have run their course the option's there.
As I said, it's a shame you're so far away. Not going to the Lakes meet, I suppose?
Kevin
for the time being the lakes meet is a definate no, on the basis that i dont feel confident that my car is capable of any sort of distance! i've took it on motorway runs at the end of each week to give the oil a treat cos i do more short journeys than i'd prefer to, but i darent venture too far from home incase it dies