Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 14 February 2013, 12:36:43
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... as above guys. Checked on TC site and they're £105.39 + VAT each :o
I know that regarding my fuel consumption issue I shouldn't throw parts at it. But I've replaced almost everything related to it apart from my new inlet/injector assembly (going in this month) and the o2 sensors (praying weather holds to replace diss pac tonight).
Anyways, is it best to stick in a wanted ad? and is there a way to test them if i buy used ones? or are pattern any good? i vaguely remember someone on the net heating it up and watching for resistance change but unsure.
:y
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ps i am testing over a period of time each thing i replace so i'm hoping the disspac change will help.... this is just in case :y
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Diagnose the fault properly then replace the one faulty part, Webby! ::)
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Diagnose the fault properly then replace the one faulty part, Webby! ::)
i plan to mate :y :y :y just planning ahead should the disspac, fuel rail etc not improve things :)
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If you have a half decent code reader/scanner, you should be able to see the sensors doing there job on the graph and compare the pattern/ voltages.
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Diagnose the fault properly then replace the one faulty part, Webby! ::)
i plan to mate :y :y :y just planning ahead should the disspac, fuel rail etc not improve things :)
Take a step back and learn what the O2 sensors do and how they do it.
Then re-consider if what you are doing is the correct thing or not. ;D :y
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Webby, dont know if you plan to use the car for long
but in any case if I were you I wouldnt buy used lambda sensors..
they are not immortal as as people claim ;D
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:y
Plan to keep her forever mate :y
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Approx £340 a pair retail or £230 on TC. :o
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Are they switching ok webby ?
0 - 1000 mV ish iirc :-\
I will be breaking my v6 in a few weeks (fingers crossed)
I know the pair fitted are working if its any help :)
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cheers guys :y
here's a random thought......
can a failed or collapsed lifter be a possible cause of my high fuel consumption?
i know i have the lifter tapping.... and wondering this.......... if its one of the inlet valves thats not opening/not opening fully could it register a lean mixture and the ECU chuck more fuel in?
just a thought :)
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Webby mate, we can't really answer, we've got no info.
What's the fuel economy figures?
What's been done so far?
What does tech 2 say?
First shout on fuel economy IMO would be multi rams, cam belt kit set up, blocked exhaust, old fuel filter.
Then I'd paper clip it for codes.
Then I'd get it on tech2 with one of the guys here for possible maf, air leak, or O2 senor problems depending on the readings.
Only then would I look at changing sensors if tech 2 showed evidence of a problem.
If I needed to swap them out, I'd get genuine Bosch from a factors. £51 each last I looked, but probably gone up since, for a face lift one.
But then... How much, more or less, of that has been done already...? :)
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Webby mate, we can't really answer, we've got no info.
What's the fuel economy figures?
What's been done so far?
What does tech 2 say?
First shout on fuel economy IMO would be multi rams, cam belt kit set up, blocked exhaust, old fuel filter.
Then I'd paper clip it for codes.
Then I'd get it on tech2 with one of the guys here for possible maf, air leak, or O2 senor problems depending on the readings.
Only then would I look at changing sensors if tech 2 showed evidence of a problem.
If I needed to swap them out, I'd get genuine Bosch from a factors. £51 each last I looked, but probably gone up since, for a face lift one.
But then... How much, more or less, of that has been done already...? :)
sorry chris, i keep assuming people have read my many stoopid posts :-[
this was my original techII read out...
O2 BLMs:
Integrators, around 100 (low)
Idle (B1 - 190, B2 - 160) (high)
Partial Load, around 130 (good)
Air/fuel ratio (Rich/Lean) seemed sluggish at idle, flipped at about 1Hz at 2000rpm, lazy lamdas, both banks.
Reset BLMs, took for drive, all around the 130 mark, except at idle, when integrators crept to 150ish, with Air/Fuel showing lean until then, then flipped at 0.33 - 1Hz
Seemed slightly down on power to me, although Webby said otherwise. MID readings for instantaneous consumption seemed quite low - I'd expect mid to high 30s average when cruising 50-60mph, reality was mid/high 20s. MID has correct 035 config, and readings seem to match Webby's experience of it using more fuel recently. This leads me to suspect that the engine is really using that amount of fuel, rather than leaks (which I couldn't detect, or smell).
After test run, brakes still cold. EGR can get to about 55% before the thing really splutters. Injector cut-off exactly as expected.
MAF, at idle, with A/C off, 9kg/hr.
so far ...
replaced fuel filter
i've vacuum leak tested (no vac leaks i can find)
voltage leak tested (visual inspection and with bit of water... no sparking/arcing that i can see)
checked for exhaust leaks by me and by garage. no leaks. emissions test also came back perfect.
replaced MAF sensor with one cleaned with lots of electric contact cleaner...seems at first glance to have improved the MID readings but i'm no expert and will be doing brim to brim test as soon as i can afford it :-[ also seems to be more responsive.
purchased spare fuel rail/inlets/injectors and will be taking to get them tested and putting that in after to rule out injector leaks
on markDTM's advice i have a good known disspac (thanks mark) that ill be swapping out this weekend
IF after all the above i can only think of checking timing, CTS, stat and o2 sensors.
sorry again for the ''constantness'' but i really want to get the best fuel economy as possible :y
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oh and cleaned EGR too :y
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Have you got another known god maf to try?
They don't take too well to cleaning I'm told. :-\
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Have you got another known god maf to try?
i have two. the one on the car that was in when i had it techII'd and the spare onefrom my old breaker. there was no known probs with the breaker MAF. I dont have another one though :)
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And did he check multi rams (I'm sure he would have done) ? and what are the economy figures, out of interest? :)
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And did he check multi rams (I'm sure he would have done) ? and what are the economy figures, out of interest? :)
got to be honest mate i dont know :-[ is this the thing to be checked for vac leaks?
well got 19mpg around town. then used it to travel further everyday to school and it was 19.5mpg :-[
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oh and also checked and absolutely no resistance when pushed in neutral to rule out stuck caliper :y
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And did he check multi rams (I'm sure he would have done) ? and what are the economy figures, out of interest? :)
got to be honest mate i dont know :-[ is this the thing to be checked for vac leaks?
well got 19mpg around town. then used it to travel further everyday to school and it was 19.5mpg :-[
Yes, tech 2 can check they are working, it has a remote operation mode.
19mpg round town doesn't sound too bad, I struggled to get more than 18 out of my old 2.5 cdx. :-\
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Any flat spots while driving? Does it take off at 4k?
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flat spots as in power?
its seemed very sluggish in the cold. in fact sluggish when warm, just less so.
as said since i swapped the maf it seems to want to move again so wonder if its cured the problem and that was it.
ill still going to swap out the diss this weekend tho :y
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Dis swap out is an exceptionally fiddly job at the best of times. I removed plenum and scuttle for access last time iirc.
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Dis swap out is an exceptionally fiddly job at the best of times. I removed plenum and scuttle for access last time iirc.
it is mate and i did exactly the same. :y
can you think of anything else in addition to what i've done and what i'm going to do to check? just really trying to get it in my head a list of culprits, target the things i can do for free (from my mini parts dept. in the garage ::)) moving up the parts in price order if still not resolved :y
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Dis swap out is an exceptionally fiddly job at the best of times. I removed plenum and scuttle for access last time iirc.
it is mate and i did exactly the same. :y
can you think of anything else in addition to what i've done and what i'm going to do to check? just really trying to get it in my head a list of culprits, target the things i can do for free (from my mini parts dept. in the garage ::)) moving up the parts in price order if still not resolved :y
Well, if the ignition system is week the pre face lift can't raise a code for a miss fire. Loose plugs, oil in plug wells, buggered leads, and dis could all contribute, but you'd know as the engine will be flat and or suffer vibration.
Suspect maf me self.
See what others say though. :y
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Also, give the throttle a good blip from the engine bay first. See if the multi rams work.
You need to be fairly violent with the engine revving though.
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Dis swap out is an exceptionally fiddly job at the best of times. I removed plenum and scuttle for access last time iirc.
it is mate and i did exactly the same. :y
can you think of anything else in addition to what i've done and what i'm going to do to check? just really trying to get it in my head a list of culprits, target the things i can do for free (from my mini parts dept. in the garage ::)) moving up the parts in price order if still not resolved :y
Well, if the ignition system is week the pre face lift can't raise a code for a miss fire. Loose plugs, oil in plug wells, buggered leads, and dis could all contribute, but you'd know as the engine will be flat and or suffer vibration.
Suspect maf me self.
See what others say though. :y
....especially with the initial low (9) reading and then the apparent improvements :y
ive got a set of leads too that ive tested and are good.... may just swap them out for the shits and giggles :y
thanks for your info chris, much appreciated :y :y :y and to everyone whos contributed :y :y :y
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Also, give the throttle a good blip from the engine bay first. See if the multi rams work.
You need to be fairly violent with the engine revving though.
what am i looking fo, chris? sorry i dnt really know what they are
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Also, give the throttle a good blip from the engine bay first. See if the multi rams work.
You need to be fairly violent with the engine revving though.
what am i looking fo, chris? sorry i dnt really know what they are
There's two, one centre/middle of the bag pipes/inlet between water pump pulley and radiator, and another at the back of the plenum pas side.
Find the front one on the inlet first perhaps, and blip the lever on the throttle body to make the engine rev and make the mram move, then you'll know what to look for on the rear one back of plenum.
When revving the front one moves relatively easily at about 4k but you need to give it plenty of beans. The rear one takes even more revs to move it.
Get the engine up to temp before revving the knackers off to though. :y
If the either of the multi rams fail to move, fix that before doing anything else. IMO. :y
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Top 25 pics show what your looking for
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=vauxhall+omega+multi+ram&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=euIeUZ25KoTi4QT32YDwBg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=672
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legend. Cheers Chris. Will do this all tomorrow really appreciative your help:)
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ok, developments....not good ones :'(
all yesterdays convo was great, clear plan as to what i need to do... get a call from mum today.... ''something odd has happened'' ::) ::) ::) ::)
car was just above empty, she fills up to just over the quarter... then in 5 miles' time its just above the red :-\ :-\ :-\
i was working on the wifes focus today so didnt have time to look in depth in to it but i looked all around the car quickly, checked the fuel filter, checked engine bay. no leaks. no smell of petrol.
WTF is going on? :-\ do you reckon theres a sender unit problem?
cars doing my nut! lol
cheers folks :y
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few google bits i read suggest sender. is there a guide as cant seem to find one :-\
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If you find it to be an intermittent fault (i.e. the gauge sometimes 'recovers' and reads correctly) I'd say there may be an easy, free fix.
Search posts by me, using the three words: fuel gauge sender
You should get five results which might help you. :y
Click the little magnifying glass icon to the left of the search box to get Advanced Search, where you can specify username as well as the search words.
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If you find it to be an intermittent fault (i.e. the gauge sometimes 'recovers' and reads correctly) I'd say there may be an easy, free fix.
Search posts by me, using the three words: fuel gauge sender
You should get five results which might help you. :y
will do...cheers mate..... i suppose a way to test it would be to brim it and see how much it takes?!
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right mate, checked your posts... good work BTW :y
i understand what you mean too with the ''resistance track'' as we've done them at school :y
When you checked the sender due to it being bent slightly i presume you got no move in the resistance reading...until you bent it correctly and then resistance check worked correctly? :)
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Do it the old fashioned way, set the trip when you fill up, then see how many miles you get per tank. ...might be wise to keep a can with fuel in, in the boot. Just in case.
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Do it the old fashioned way, set the trip when you fill up, then see how many miles you get per tank. ...might be wise to keep a can with fuel in, in the boot. Just in case.
will do chris, cheers. but will this work to diagnose the new development re the gauge that i posted about today?
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right mate, checked your posts... good work BTW :y
i understand what you mean too with the ''resistance track'' as we've done them at school :y
When you checked the sender due to it being bent slightly i presume you got no move in the resistance reading...until you bent it correctly and then resistance check worked correctly? :)
Yep, You'll see if you get the sender out of the tank that if the 90-degree bend has opened up a bit, it takes very little effort to lift the 'wiper' off the track, which obviously breaks the circuit causing the gauge to drop out.
I'd monitor it for a while before diving in there though (keep a spare can or two of fuel in the boot). If it isn't intermittent, then it probably isn't the same problem I had.
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right mate, checked your posts... good work BTW :y
i understand what you mean too with the ''resistance track'' as we've done them at school :y
When you checked the sender due to it being bent slightly i presume you got no move in the resistance reading...until you bent it correctly and then resistance check worked correctly? :)
Yep, You'll see if you get the sender out of the tank that if the 90-degree bend has opened up a bit, it takes very little effort to lift the 'wiper' off the track, which obviously breaks the circuit causing the gauge to drop out.
I'd monitor it for a while before diving in there though (keep a spare can or two of fuel in the boot). If it isn't intermittent, then it probably isn't the same problem I had.
nice one mate. i'm sure i fully understand :y
basically the metal part arrowed is easily liftable breaking the circuit?
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/sender2_zps1739fc18.jpg)
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Yep, and the 90-degree bend I'm on about is at the one at the top end (as oriented in your pic) of that metal rod, not the one halfway to the float (which isn't and shouldn't be 90).
You have to unclip the metal bit out of the plastic bits to correct the bend.
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Yep, and the 90-degree bend I'm on about is at the one at the top end (as oriented in your pic) of that metal rod, not the one halfway to the float (which isn't and shouldn't be 90).
You have to unclip the metal bit out of the plastic bits to correct the bend.
got ya mate ;) .....
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/sender22_zpscad9a027.jpg)
one way to ''quickly'' check would be to fill up to the brim i'm thinking.....should it take 70 litres i know the fuel has gone somewhere but if it only took say 40 litres then that would confirm gauge and/or sender fubared, right? :)
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ps mate thanks very much for the info... really appreciated :y :y :y
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Yep, and the 90-degree bend I'm on about is at the one at the top end (as oriented in your pic) of that metal rod, not the one halfway to the float (which isn't and shouldn't be 90).
You have to unclip the metal bit out of the plastic bits to correct the bend.
got ya mate ;) .....
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/sender22_zpscad9a027.jpg)
one way to ''quickly'' check would be to fill up to the brim i'm thinking.....should it take 70 litres i know the fuel has gone somewhere but if it only took say 40 litres then that would confirm gauge and/or sender fubared, right? :)
Sounds like a good plan. :)
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Yep, and the 90-degree bend I'm on about is at the one at the top end (as oriented in your pic) of that metal rod, not the one halfway to the float (which isn't and shouldn't be 90).
You have to unclip the metal bit out of the plastic bits to correct the bend.
got ya mate ;) .....
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/sender22_zpscad9a027.jpg)
one way to ''quickly'' check would be to fill up to the brim i'm thinking.....should it take 70 litres i know the fuel has gone somewhere but if it only took say 40 litres then that would confirm gauge and/or sender fubared, right? :)
Sounds like a good plan. :)
cheers matie :y :y :y :y :y
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ps just noticed this on eGay....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-PETROL-TANK-SENDER-UNIT-IN-GREAT-USED-CONDITION-/230929829782?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35c47d8f96
What did Vx want for a new one? :-\
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ps, if i diagnose a bad sender, once i get to this point....
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/FuelPumpCoverundersideFitted_zps282130fa.jpg)
will the whole pump/sender assembly just lift out?
:y