Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: SteveAvfc. on 09 March 2013, 20:49:12
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Today i helped a friend out by letting park his caravan on my drive way. All i know about the van is its a swift and its about 20ft+ long and is twin wheeled based .
He has said he is up for selling it and has given me first refusal, so now the question having never owned one should i or should i not go for it, what are the pros and cons.
I would like sensible answers please but guessing that wont be the case with some Oofers. ;D ;D
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First of all is your car heavy enough to legally tow it? Also, if the kerb weight of the car & the max plated weight of the caravan (MTPMW?) is more than 3500kg & you passed your driving test after 1997(?) your licence isn't enough unless you take a 'towing test' B+E? :-\
Check for damp. Check for damp. :y :y :y
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Today i helped a friend out by letting park his caravan on my drive way. All i know about the van is its a swift and its about 20ft+ long and is twin wheeled based .
He has said he is up for selling it and has given me first refusal, so now the question having never owned one should i or should i not go for it, what are the pros and cons.
I would like sensible answers please but guessing that wont be the case with some Oofers. ;D ;D
Not.
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Sounds like a Swift Conqueror, and if it's got grey window rubbers just forget it. >:(
Am damn sure that it's not only illegal but unsafe to tow a twin-axle 'van with any Omega.
The caravan is heavier than the car - so you have a 'tail wagging the dog' situation.
To give you an example, (and in simple terms):
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/43954633/IMG_0483.JPG)
Our 'van's laden weight is actually 86% of the laden weight of the car.
Without perusing both handbooks for the actual figures, and is a well-balanced outfit.
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Parked on you drive for a couple of days is one thing. Blocking out the light week after week will soon get on your wick.
Just book a Nice hotel when you need it.
Or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiVhTvSwni0
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Also, there's the ridicule and being regarded as a mobile leper to deal with. 8)
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We get away with it as our caravan is a 'Static' :D :D :D
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From a weight point of view ... Things you NEED to know before you even start.
1. Vehicle Max Allowable Weight
2. Vehicle Max Allowable Train Weight
3. Caravan Maximum Permitted Total Laden Weight - MPTLW
Don't even think about actually weighing anything .. these are the published (or plated) maximum weights
From a LEGAL point of view .. it is ILLEGAL if the Vehicle +the trailer (van) exceed the Vehicle maximum allowable train weight
If the vehicle + the van weigh more then 3500 Kgs you need a B+E licence
From a SAFETY point of view it is DANGEROUS if the trailer (van) weighs more than the vehicle
All the numbers you need are on the car VIN plate and the 'van weight plate (usually by the door).
It is these PUBLISHED figures that the Police will use to decide if you are breaking.
the law in relation to your licence.
If you get stopped by VOSA they will be dealing with the actual weights involved and will either have portable weighing gear or take you to a weigh bridge before deciding if you are legal or not....
So, in summary, you could be towing an empty van with an empty car and be breaking the law if the plated maximum weights arean illegal combination, or your license is insufficient.
You can be driving a legal combination on plated weights and licence and still be breaking the law if the ACTUAL weights are greater than those plated weights - basically an overloaded setup.
Research before starting, and don't overload :y :y :y
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....(
Am damn sure that it's not only illegal but unsafe to tow a twin-axle 'van with any Omega.
The caravan is heavier than the car - so you have a 'tail wagging the dog' situation.
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I know what you're implying Byron, but to say that you can't tow a twin axle caravan with an Omega is just too broad a statement. As you say, it's the weight of the caravan you need to take note of, there's a twin axle version of mine that's not much heavier & within the capabilities of an Omega. ;)
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If the vehicle + the van weigh more then 3500 Kgs you need a B+E licence
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Depends when he passed his test ;)
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If the vehicle + the van weigh more then 3500 Kgs you need a B+E licence
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Depends when he passed his test ;)
He still needs B+E, but he might already have the entitlement ;)
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If the vehicle + the van weigh more then 3500 Kgs you need a B+E licence
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Depends when he passed his test ;)
1978
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If the vehicle + the van weigh more then 3500 Kgs you need a B+E licence
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Depends when he passed his test ;)
1978
You have grandfather rights then .... like me ;) ;)
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If the vehicle + the van weigh more then 3500 Kgs you need a B+E licence
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Depends when he passed his test ;)
1978
You have grandfather rights then .... like me ;) ;)
... but only if his licence actually SAYS B+E ... which, I agree, it should, but I also know of a couple of folks who have had to fight to get it .... when the computor says NO .. it is hard to overturn ... :(
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If the vehicle + the van weigh more then 3500 Kgs you need a B+E licence
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Depends when he passed his test ;)
1978
You have grandfather rights then .... like me ;) ;)
... but only if his licence actually SAYS B+E ... which, I agree, it should, but I also know of a couple of folks who have had to fight to get it .... when the computor says NO .. it is hard to overturn ... :(
Licence says YES :y
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If the vehicle + the van weigh more then 3500 Kgs you need a B+E licence
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Depends when he passed his test ;)
1978
You have grandfather rights then .... like me ;) ;)
... but only if his licence actually SAYS B+E ... which, I agree, it should, but I also know of a couple of folks who have had to fight to get it .... when the computor says NO .. it is hard to overturn ... :(
Mine's still a paper licence ....... and the groups are different - no mention of E & B is my manual car bit
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Van is a Swift conqueror 560/4 ??
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Van is a Swift 560/4 ??
560 is the modle no the 4 means 4 berth i think proberbly wrong as usual
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That's a big van...... ;) ;) I think our last tourer was a Lunar 569 twin axle, was a 6 birth but they were a light van, tow car a 2.0L Mig Estate, not that it ever really towed it as we found a nice site and left it there.... :y :y
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According to this site (http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/caravan-specifications/swift/conqueror-560-sal-1996_8855) it's 1500Kgs MPTLW so would be within spec for an Omega :y Although off the top of my head it might be a bit heavy for a novice tow driver :-\
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That's a big van...... ;) ;) I think our last tourer was a Lunar 569 twin axle, was a 6 birth but they were a light van, tow car a 2.0L Mig Estate, not that it ever really towed it as we found a nice site and left it there.... :y :y
Should read Lunar 560..... ::) ::)
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That's a big van...... ;) ;) I think our last tourer was a Lunar 569 twin axle, was a 6 birth but they were a light van, tow car a 2.0L Mig Estate, not that it ever really towed it as we found a nice site and left it there.... :y :y
Should read Lunar 560..... ::) ::)
Fat fingers or too much of your favourite tipple? ::)
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Hi worth a look here :y
http://www.whattowcar.com/
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Hi worth a look here :y
http://www.whattowcar.com/
Thanks for the link checked it out and here was the answer.
Your Swift is 19 kg too heavy for this car!!!
So its Benidorm by by-plane ;D ;D ;D :y :y
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My license says yes, the 'from' date says '<04-01-1981', but I passed my test long before that.
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i cant remember if it was 1850 or 1650 for the v6 saloon i had,i will check on towsure tomoz if i remember
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Something else to bear in mind. Towing a large caravan will show up any weaknesses in your cooling system. My 2.5 had never overheated till I started towing. Needed a new radiator.
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Okies .. to try and help, and make it simple ... using MY DETAILS as an example ... but YOUR car and YOUR van should provide the same info.
From the car VIN plate on the door pillar.
TOP figure 2200 Kgs
SECOND figure 4075 Kgs
1) Top figure is Manufacturers Max Permisable Weight (also known as Gross Vehicle Weight GVW)
2) Second figure Max allowable train weight
3) Subtract 1 from 2 ... 4075-2200 = 1875 Kgs - this is the maximum allowable trailer weight, or the vehicle is deemed overloaded.
4) From the caravan plate (by the door) - MPTLW 1650 so as this is lower than (3) the combination is legal on the road.
However, as 1 + 4 = 2200 + 1650 = 3850 the driver MUST have a B + E (or equivalent) in order to drive.
The above is the info the POLICE will go on regarding license and legality
VOSA and their scales - either portable or at a weighbridge will look at different criteria.
From the car plate ..
5) Third figure 1080 - Max front axle weight
6) fourth figure 1150 - Max rear axle weight - NOTE from the handbook this can increase to 1200 when towing - so I'll use 1200 for the calculations.
The astute among you will note that 5+6 = 2280 which is greater than the max 2200 allowed ... IF the rear axle is loaded to 1200 the front axle must be decreased to 1000, as the 2200 CANNOT be exceeded .... actually a tricky thing to do !!
So on the scales ... the weights of 4, 5, 6 will be taken as measured .. if the published limits are exceeded you are breaking the law. They will look at each figure in turn, (axle loads) then at 4+5 (car load) then at 4+5+6 (train weight)
It is not unheard of for the car to be well within limits and the 'van to be high, but not by stupid amounts. VOSA will usually insist that loads are re-distributed to make the unit legal (and safe) rather than prosecute
So thats the law ... many folks have heard of the "85%" rule .. which is NOT a rule !! it is the Caravan Club recommendation, no more, no less and is NOT based on plated weight of the car at all, it based on the "kerb weight" which according to my handbook is 1700KG for my car.
It is designed to make the "worst case" scenario of light car + heavy van as safe as possible for the inexperienced tower, so is based on kerbweight (1700) and max van weight (1650) .. as you can see, using those figures I am at 97% !!! Generally deemed a "bad thing" by the CC .. however, in mitigation .. I have a gurt big LPG tank usually full in the boot, my van is not at its max, and I've been towing for 25+ years so don't class myself as "inexperienced".
You can also see that there is no way an omega towing another omega on an A-frame or trailer can ever be legal, unless something drastic has been removed from the towed car (engine /gearbox etc etc)
Sorry its so longwinded, but that is MY understanding of the law and its ramifications, hopefully it is not too far wrong and may help.
Tow safely :y :y :y
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Sorry its so longwinded, but that is MY understanding of the law and its ramifications, hopefully it is not too far wrong and may help.
Tow safely :y :y :y
Pretty well spot on I'd say. Well done that man! :y
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Ive often wondered about the legality of those very large vans that use a fifth wheel as the coupling and the coupling is fitted in the back of a pickup truck :-\ , commonly seen when a fair is in town. ::)
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Ive often wondered about the legality of those very large vans that use a fifth wheel as the coupling and the coupling is fitted in the back of a pickup truck :-\ , commonly seen when a fair is in town. ::)
Come under slightly different rules as they will have air/power brakes ;)
A Land/Range Rover can legally tow a trailer of 4250 Kgs as long as the trailer and car have the proper brake conversion done ;)
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Ive often wondered about the legality of those very large vans that use a fifth wheel as the coupling and the coupling is fitted in the back of a pickup truck :-\ , commonly seen when a fair is in town. ::)
Come under slightly different rules as they will have air/power brakes ;)
A Land/Range Rover can legally tow a trailer of 4250 Kgs as long as the trailer and car have the proper brake conversion done ;)
Even the stock Disco is allowed to pull 3500kg. :y
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Parked on you drive for a couple of days is one thing. Blocking out the light week after week will soon get on your wick.
Just book a Nice hotel when you need it.
Or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiVhTvSwni0
no it dont . got mine outside and it dont stop any light :y :y
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We get away with it as our caravan is a 'Static' :D :D :D
thats not caravaning :y :y
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Ive often wondered about the legality of those very large vans that use a fifth wheel as the coupling and the coupling is fitted in the back of a pickup truck :-\ , commonly seen when a fair is in town. ::)
Come under slightly different rules as they will have air/power brakes ;)
A Land/Range Rover can legally tow a trailer of 4250 Kgs as long as the trailer and car have the proper brake conversion done ;)
I will have to have a proper look next time i see one......but i cannot imagine a fair ground type person bothering to his pickup truck brakes uprated and have air installed for the air brakes on the trailer :-\ :-X