Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: platty on 12 May 2008, 11:10:07
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Hello all,
I'm trying to establish what I can or cannot tow with the Omega. I passed my test in 2001 and am 24 years old. I have only category "B" on my licence.
My questions are:
1. What is the weight of my car? details in sig (I don't have the manual)
2. Can I tow a braked twin-axle trailer of 1500kgs laden weight on my current licence?
Any help would be appreciated.
Platty :y
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1) To check the published weight go to :
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Summary.aspx?model=985
Choose your car, then click "More Information"
2) With just a "B" licence you can drive
Motor vehicles with a MAM not exceeding 3500kg having not more than eight passenger seats with a trailer up to 750kg. Combinations of towing vehicles in category B and a trailer, where the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle
This is explained more here :
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073
So the answer to 2 is I'm afraid ... it depends ... !!
If your car is less than 2000 kgs MAM but more than 1500 kgs .... YES
If your car is less than 1500 kgs .... NO
HTH
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Thanks Entwood, I am sure I had seen that info before but couldn't find the website, Thanks :y
So with my Omega weighing in slightly less than the Titanic at 1691kgs, I should be within the law towing 1500kgs - as my total weight will be less than the 3500kg MAM. Hooray!
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I would advise caution on that and seek further advice... Not that I'm disagreeing with Entwood's interpretation... I just don't know!!
I remember reading somewhere about this and it was explained really clearly but I can't for the life of me remember where!! ::) ::)
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I thought the towin weight limit was 80% of the vehicle's unladen weight....
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I thought the towin weight limit was 80% of the vehicle's unladen weight....
Caravan Club's advise you tow 85% of MAM/gross weight/MPTLM or what ever they call it. You can tow weight for weight for you want.
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I would advise caution on that and seek further advice... Not that I'm disagreeing with Entwood's interpretation... I just don't know!!
I remember reading somewhere about this and it was explained really clearly but I can't for the life of me remember where!! ::) ::)
Not on a Government web site then. ;)
I must admit I thought the towing restrictions were much more onerous than that without a b+e entitlement as it prevents a lot of younger glider pilots from towing glider trailers. I may be wrong though.
Kevin
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I must admit I thought the towing restrictions were much more onerous than that without a b+e entitlement
Agreed, I thought they were more restrictive than they seem. I still haven't managed to get a definitive answer from the horse's mouth yet!
As far as I can read I should be fine as long as my MAM doesn't exceed 3500kgs...
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Yes, be careful about the use of MAM and unladen weight though. Unladen weight will be around 1650-1750 depending on model. I reckon (without looking it up) MAM of an Omega is significantly over 2 tonnes.
So, MAM of the trailer can be up to 1650-1750 - not a problem, but the combined MAM of trailer and Omega cannot exceed 3.5 tonnes. Given that the Omega's MAM will be over 2 tonnes I reckon this will put you outside the limits for a 1500 Kg trailer.
However:
1) Does the trailer have a plate listing the weights? If not who's to say what the MAM is?
2) This all seems to be complex enough that you'll get the benefit of the doubt at the roadside if not taking the mickey.
3) Failing that, all they can do is put you on a weighbridge and they'll probably find the combination under 3.5 tonnes provided the Omega is not loaded to the gunnels. Are they really going to argue that you "could" have loaded it up to a weight you're not licenced to drive, although you didn't? Again, you'll probably get the benefit of the doubt.
My Omega's max train weight is over 4 tonnes, and I've towed 1700Kg before so the car will be perfectly happy. It's just the licence that might be an issue.
Kevin
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Yes, be careful about the use of MAM and unladen weight though. Unladen weight will be around 1650-1750 depending on model. I reckon (without looking it up) MAM of an Omega is significantly over 2 tonnes.
So, MAM of the trailer can be up to 1650-1750 - not a problem, but the combined MAM of trailer and Omega cannot exceed 3.5 tonnes. Given that the Omega's MAM will be over 2 tonnes I reckon this will put you outside the limits for a 1500 Kg trailer.
However:
1) Does the trailer have a plate listing the weights? If not who's to say what the MAM is?
2) This all seems to be complex enough that you'll get the benefit of the doubt at the roadside if not taking the mickey.
3) Failing that, all they can do is put you on a weighbridge and they'll probably find the combination under 3.5 tonnes provided the Omega is not loaded to the gunnels. Are they really going to argue that you "could" have loaded it up to a weight you're not licenced to drive, although you didn't? Again, you'll probably get the benefit of the doubt.
My Omega's max train weight is over 4 tonnes, and I've towed 1700Kg before so the car will be perfectly happy. It's just the licence that might be an issue.
Kevin
Thanks Kevin, I follow you regarding the Unladen Weight vs the MAM of the Omega. What extra does the MAM encompass that the Unladen doesn't? Just fluids and passengers?
I have used 1500kg as the maximum - the trailer only weighs 500kg unladen. I don't think I will be able to get more than a tonne in there - as I'm only moving motorsport rollcages which are bulky and take up alot of space for their weight.
There is a scrapyard where I am setting off from - so the plan is to drop in there and check my MAM before I hit the road. Foolproof (hopefully) ;)
Thanks for everyones advice, at least I'm not the only one unsure about this!! :y
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My Omega's max train weight is over 4 tonnes, and I've towed 1700Kg before so the car will be perfectly happy. It's just the licence that might be an issue.
Kevin
Bl**dy hell, 4 tonnes:o
Even with MV6 suspension and fat tyres I woudn't want to be braking that lot in a hurry.
Respect :y
Jim
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My Omega's max train weight is over 4 tonnes, and I've towed 1700Kg before so the car will be perfectly happy. It's just the licence that might be an issue.
Kevin
Bl**dy hell, 4 tonnes:o
Even with MV6 suspension and fat tyres I woudn't want to be braking that lot in a hurry.
Respect :y
Jim
As long as the trailer brakes are up to the mark it shoudn't be a problem
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Yes, be careful about the use of MAM and unladen weight though. Unladen weight will be around 1650-1750 depending on model. I reckon (without looking it up) MAM of an Omega is significantly over 2 tonnes.
So, MAM of the trailer can be up to 1650-1750 - not a problem, but the combined MAM of trailer and Omega cannot exceed 3.5 tonnes. Given that the Omega's MAM will be over 2 tonnes I reckon this will put you outside the limits for a 1500 Kg trailer.
However:
1) Does the trailer have a plate listing the weights? If not who's to say what the MAM is?
2) This all seems to be complex enough that you'll get the benefit of the doubt at the roadside if not taking the mickey.
3) Failing that, all they can do is put you on a weighbridge and they'll probably find the combination under 3.5 tonnes provided the Omega is not loaded to the gunnels. Are they really going to argue that you "could" have loaded it up to a weight you're not licenced to drive, although you didn't? Again, you'll probably get the benefit of the doubt.
My Omega's max train weight is over 4 tonnes, and I've towed 1700Kg before so the car will be perfectly happy. It's just the licence that might be an issue.
Kevin
Thanks Kevin, I follow you regarding the Unladen Weight vs the MAM of the Omega. What extra does the MAM encompass that the Unladen doesn't? Just fluids and passengers?
I have used 1500kg as the maximum - the trailer only weighs 500kg unladen. I don't think I will be able to get more than a tonne in there - as I'm only moving motorsport rollcages which are bulky and take up alot of space for their weight.
There is a scrapyard where I am setting off from - so the plan is to drop in there and check my MAM before I hit the road. Foolproof (hopefully) ;)
Thanks for everyones advice, at least I'm not the only one unsure about this!! :y
You CANNOT Check MAM on a weighbridge ... you can only check your actual weight .. and hopefully you are not exceding the MAM !!
MAM - Maximum Authorised Mass
Its on the VIN plate on the B panel - the police can use this and weighing devices, either portable or a weighbridge, to check your actual situation. If the trailer is "plated" then they can also use that information.
I'm not sure what happens if the trailer is unplated, as all the trailers/caravans I have towed have been plated .. :(
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Yes, be careful about the use of MAM and unladen weight though. Unladen weight will be around 1650-1750 depending on model. I reckon (without looking it up) MAM of an Omega is significantly over 2 tonnes.
So, MAM of the trailer can be up to 1650-1750 - not a problem, but the combined MAM of trailer and Omega cannot exceed 3.5 tonnes. Given that the Omega's MAM will be over 2 tonnes I reckon this will put you outside the limits for a 1500 Kg trailer.
However:
1) Does the trailer have a plate listing the weights? If not who's to say what the MAM is?
2) This all seems to be complex enough that you'll get the benefit of the doubt at the roadside if not taking the mickey.
3) Failing that, all they can do is put you on a weighbridge and they'll probably find the combination under 3.5 tonnes provided the Omega is not loaded to the gunnels. Are they really going to argue that you "could" have loaded it up to a weight you're not licenced to drive, although you didn't? Again, you'll probably get the benefit of the doubt.
My Omega's max train weight is over 4 tonnes, and I've towed 1700Kg before so the car will be perfectly happy. It's just the licence that might be an issue.
Kevin
Thanks Kevin, I follow you regarding the Unladen Weight vs the MAM of the Omega. What extra does the MAM encompass that the Unladen doesn't? Just fluids and passengers?
I have used 1500kg as the maximum - the trailer only weighs 500kg unladen. I don't think I will be able to get more than a tonne in there - as I'm only moving motorsport rollcages which are bulky and take up alot of space for their weight.
There is a scrapyard where I am setting off from - so the plan is to drop in there and check my MAM before I hit the road. Foolproof (hopefully) ;)
Thanks for everyones advice, at least I'm not the only one unsure about this!! :y
You CANNOT Check MAM on a weighbridge ... you can only check your actual weight .. and hopefully you are not exceding the MAM !!
MAM - Maximum Authorised Mass
Its on the VIN plate on the B panel - the police can use this and weighing devices, either portable or a weighbridge, to check your actual situation. If the trailer is "plated" then they can also use that information.
I'm not sure what happens if the trailer is unplated, as all the trailers/caravans I have towed have been plated .. :(
I believe all trailers / caravans are plated, the problem is home made trailers, though iirc the axels dictate the payload / gross weight.
50s style home made trailers using cart axels / leaf springs from an old Ford or similar are not legal thesedays. :)
Not sure about all the new laws, I can drive anything, but is it not down to an overall gross weight.
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Right, I have taken a photo of my chassis plate:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/chrispy_platt/Mega%20Drive/vinplate.jpg)
My trailer is unplated, but the axles are marked up as being 500kgs each (2x axles) so I could rough the MAM at 1000kgs - ish?
From the plate I read that the MAM is 2245kgs (?) and the maximum train weight is 3845kgs (?) meaning the max I can tow is 1600kgs (?).
So as long as my trailers MAM is under 1255kgs (3500 - 2245) I should be ok?
Sorry if I come across as an amateur but this is all new to me! :y
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I think you're getting there but... If the trailer you're going to tow isn't plated I think you are asking for trouble... If it's home made then I've noticed that the police are getting more suspicious and starting to check them over more thoroughly!!
Having said all that, you may be fine! I'm just confused over the towing rights on the cat B entitlement!? :-/ :-/
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It is a fine trailer, somewhere between home made and professional job. Was mad on a jig, fully galvanised and weather boarded. I have no worries about them assessing the quality of it - just the fact that it isn't plated.
Either way I shall take it steady and see how we get on.
Thanks for everyone's input so far, I have learnt a lot about towing!!
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I would tend to agree with most of those figures ..
Remember these are all MAXIMUM figures, so there is room for manouvre... if the car is not at max of 2245 -- ie say its 2100 .. then the trailer can go to 3845-2100 = 1745 .. legal for towing .. but NOT for a B licence !
In your case with a max licence weight (train) of 3500 you have less room to play with but the idea is the same, just ensure that if you are trying to reduce car weight so you can use a larger trailer weight to stay within the 3500 that the trailer is always less than the car - shouldn't be a problem using a Miggy normally - but I just want to make the point...(theoretically you can bust this one .. 3500 - car at 1700 = trailer could be 1800 ... not good !! :( )
So as long as my trailers MAM is under 1255kgs (3500 - 2245) I should be ok?
If you stick to those figures I wouldn't see any problem - providing no-one argues about the trailer limits - the axle plates would suggest a max of 500 kgs each so a max trailer weight of 1000 kgs would be ideal ..remember this is a GROSS weight so includes the weight of the trailer itself ...
licence max 3500
car max 2245 car min 1700
trailer max 1000
would IMHO make you totally flameproof, even with the car empty and the trailer full !!
But please remember these are just my views and opinions .. I am NOT an expert .. I've just been towing for more years, and with some "wierd" combinations, than I care to think about !!
:)
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I would tend to agree with most of those figures ..
Remember these are all MAXIMUM figures, so there is room for manouvre... if the car is not at max of 2245 -- ie say its 2100 .. then the trailer can go to 3845-2100 = 1745 .. legal for towing .. but NOT for a B licence !
In your case with a max licence weight (train) of 3500 you have less room to play with but the idea is the same, just ensure that if you are trying to reduce car weight so you can use a larger trailer weight to stay within the 3500 that the trailer is always less than the car - shouldn't be a problem using a Miggy - but I just want to make the point... :)
So as long as my trailers MAM is under 1255kgs (3500 - 2245) I should be ok?
If you stick to those figures I wouldn't see any problem - providing no-one argues about the trailer limits - the axle plates would suggest a max of 500 kgs each so a max trailer weight of 1000 kgs would be ideal ..remember this is a GROSS weight so includes the weight of the trailer itself ...
licence max 3500
car max 2245 car min 1700
trailer max 1000
would IMHO make you totally flameproof, even with the car empty and the trailer full !!
But please remember these are just my views and opinions .. I am NOT an expert .. I've just been towing for more years, and with some "wierd" combinations, than I care to think about !!
:)
Just to clarify that Entwood... On a Cat B license the only figures that count are Maximum Authorised Mass so he can't play with the values and reduce the weight of the car because the MAM will still be the same. :-/ :-/
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Just remember not to confuse unladen weight, actual weight, and MAM.
The MAM of the trailer you can tow if you only have CatB is 750kgs.
2245 is the max gross weight/MAM of the vehicle without trailer attached. Thats the designers max weight for the car, its fuel, passengers and anything else within it, that the brakes, suspension etc are designed to cope with.
As soon as you attach a trailer, its then the train weight that is used, ie 3845. The combination then becomes the all up weight of the car and contents plus the trailer and contents.
Easiest way to establish how much you can put into the trailer is to use a public weighbridge. Take car and empty trailer, complete with passengers and full fuel load and weigh the whole thing. Subtract the figure from the train weight and thats the max the trailer and car can carry, as far as the train weight goes.
That process is using the Manufacturers restrictions, not DVLA regarding driver licencing....
Weigh the trailer on its own and subtract that weight from 750kgs. The resultant figure is the max load the trailer can carry and is probably less than the calculated train weight figure......
Remember that the construction of the trailer itself must not be overloaded, nor the applicable load rating for the tyres, nor the manner the load is carried such that it overloads the rear axle weight of the car - 1230 kgs....
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Must confess... I'm still not convinced of the figures... For some reason the MAM of the trailer which can be towed on a Cat B license of 750Kgs sticks in my mind!! :-/ :-/ :-/ :question :question
EDIT: Must type faster!! ;D ;D :y
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Just remember not to confuse unladen weight, actual weight, and MAM.
The MAM of the trailer you can tow if you only have CatB is 750kgs.
2245 is the max gross weight/MAM of the vehicle without trailer attached. Thats the weight of the car, its fuel, passengers and anything else within it.
As soon as you attach a trailer, its then the train weight that is used, ie 3845. The combination then becomes the all up weight of the car and contents plus the trailer and contents.
Easiest way to establish how much you can put into the trailer is to use a public weighbridge. Take car and empty trailer, complete with passengers and full fuel load and weigh the whole thing. Subtract the figure from the train weight and thats the max the trailer can carry, as far as the train weight goes.
Weigh the trailer on its own and subtract that weight from 750kgs. Thats the max load the trailer can carry and is probably less than the calculated train weight figure......
Remember that the construction of the trailer itself must not be overloaded, nor the applicable load rating for the tyres, nor the manner the load is carried such that it overloads the rear axle weight of the car - 1230 kgs....
Sorry .. must disagree totally with that statement .. :(
As previously linked ...
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.
This is the bit most people don't know about !!!
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As soon as you hook up a trailer to the Omega, from the plate piccy listed, its train weight/MAM is 3845 kgs which is 345 kgs above the cut off weight......
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Just remember not to confuse unladen weight, actual weight, and MAM.
The MAM of the trailer you can tow if you only have CatB is 750kgs.
2245 is the max gross weight/MAM of the vehicle without trailer attached. Thats the weight of the car, its fuel, passengers and anything else within it.
As soon as you attach a trailer, its then the train weight that is used, ie 3845. The combination then becomes the all up weight of the car and contents plus the trailer and contents.
Easiest way to establish how much you can put into the trailer is to use a public weighbridge. Take car and empty trailer, complete with passengers and full fuel load and weigh the whole thing. Subtract the figure from the train weight and thats the max the trailer can carry, as far as the train weight goes.
Weigh the trailer on its own and subtract that weight from 750kgs. Thats the max load the trailer can carry and is probably less than the calculated train weight figure......
Remember that the construction of the trailer itself must not be overloaded, nor the applicable load rating for the tyres, nor the manner the load is carried such that it overloads the rear axle weight of the car - 1230 kgs....
Sorry .. must disagree totally with that statement .. :(
As previously linked ...
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.
This is the bit most people don't know about !!!
Probably including the local plod!! :o :o
That's where it all gets confusing!!! Just out of interest then... What difference does the B+E entitlement actually make?
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Ha ha ha! This has got to be the single most unnecessarily complicated piece of vehicle law ever! ;D
edit: As soon as you hook up a trailer to the Omega, from the plate piccy listed, its train weight/MAM is 3845 kgs which is 345 kgs above the cut off weight......
Surely this seems ridiculous - the trailer weight could vary from 250kgs to 2000kgs??
I agree with Lazydocker - surely the MAM values are fixed and no matter how I load the car or trailer these will remain?
The trailer will not be loaded heavy and I do not see the overall weight of it being more than 1000kgs - this leads me to believe that I should be ok (even if the Omega reaches its MAM of 2245kgs- which is unlikely)
Again, many thanks for everyone's input. :y
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As soon as you hook up a trailer to the Omega, from the plate piccy listed, its train weight/MAM is 3845 kgs which is 345 kgs above the cut off weight......
I couldn't quite get there!!! I knew there was a problem with the theory somewhere!!
Incidentally, with that being the case, shouldn't all Miggy's with tow bars be fitted with Tachographs?? The Tacho laws apply to any vehicle combination over 3500Kg :-/ :-/ :-/
Not that most people would need to use it as they would be on private time, i.e. not for hire/reward!
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As soon as you hook up a trailer to the Omega, from the plate piccy listed, its train weight/MAM is 3845 kgs which is 345 kgs above the cut off weight......
Are you saying then that no-one can tow anything with a miggy without a +e licence ??
I see what you are saying... sort of .. but that point of view has never been put on any of the towing/driver training courses I have done... perhaps because I'll bet we all had "grandad rights" to a B+E licence ... :(
If it is correct .. then a lot of folks could be in trouble without realising it !!
:-/ :-/ :-/ :-/
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Platty, I think we're there... H21 has it in a nutshell I believe as he has correctly pointed out that te MAM of your Miggy+trailer (Max train weight) is indeed 3845Kgs!!
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As soon as you hook up a trailer to the Omega, from the plate piccy listed, its train weight/MAM is 3845 kgs which is 345 kgs above the cut off weight......
Are you saying then that no-one can tow anything with a miggy without a +e licence ??
I see what you are saying... sort of .. but that point of view has never been put on any of the towing/driver training courses I have done... perhaps because I'll bet we all had "grandad rights" to a B+E licence ... :(
If it is correct .. then an a lot of folks could be in trouble without realising it !!
:-/ :-/ :-/ :-/
I'll have you know I'm only 30 and have these "Grandad" rights!!! ;D ;D :y
It only really came into effect in 1997 (I think) when you no longer got an automatic +E on your passing the tow vehicle test!
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What it means is.....
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.
Thats to say the addition of a 750 kg trailer to a vehicle can reach a train MAM of 4250 kgs but that only depends on the weight limits of the towing vehicle, obviously.
Yes, there are quite a few folks trundling their caravans etc out there who passed their tests after 1st January 1997 who are, technically, driving without a licence....
Passing your car test before that date does give grandfather rights....
Platty - 750 ks trailer max. :y
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Clear as mud!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
No, I'm joking... Now you've highlighted it it's perfectly clear.
Bang goes the idea of having SWMBO towing the caravan!! Unless of course I put L plates on it!! ::) ::) :y :y
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I agree with you there H21 - I still think it is ridiculous to use that figure though...
Oh well, I had better get the trailer weighed then. :(
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mmmm .. now then now then ...
If I get H21's idea .. and I accept his expertise here ..
Miggey with a trailer MAM = 3845 from the plate .. so exceeds 3500, however ... the "up to 750" bit kicks in allowing a MAM of 4.25 ... so you can actually tow a trailer with a GROSS weight of 405 kgs with that miggy on a B licence !!!!
or am I still wrong ??
:-/ :-/
Huh :-? :-? :-?
Where does the 3500Kg Miggy come from?? I think... 2245Kg MAM Miggy + 750Kg trailer comes to 2995Kg MAM (combination) on a Cat B license. :-/ :-/ :question
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mmmm .. now then now then ...
If I get H21's idea .. and I accept his expertise here ..
Miggey with a trailer MAM = 3845 from the plate .. so exceeds 3500, however ... the "up to 750" bit kicks in allowing a MAM of 4.25 ... so you can actually tow a trailer with a GROSS weight of 405 kgs with that miggy on a B licence !!!!
or am I still wrong ??
:-/ :-/
sort of...
Two seperate but linked things.
On the one hand, there are manufacturer restrictions - 3850 kgs train MAM as stipulated by the manufacturers plate.
On the other, DVLA restrictions with the 750 kg trailer bit, with an upper restriction etc of 4250 kgs.
This latter 4250 cannot supercede the manufacturer restrictions as its a general licencing exception, not a physical one, if you follow.
What the chap needs to do is as I already said. Take empty trailer to a weighbridge and weigh it and do some sums....
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I thought I was cracking up then... Couldn't find the post I quoted but H21 did the same!!
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I'm glad I passed my test in '79 cos after reading all the above posts I'm completely confuddled! :-?
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It took us a while to work it out!! ;D ;D ::)
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I havent read the thread in great detail. But a simple way to iron out confusion is this.
What ever in on (roofrack) , behind (in or on) regards a trailer/van and inside the car. Driven to holidays like a campsite for example on a public high way is whats gets weighed. (The rolling train)
That includes passengers. (most people do not take them into account)
In the case of being overladen I would then imagine it ends on the weight distribution per axle (Trailer being classed as one of the axle units)
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I havent read the thread in great detail. But a simple way to iron out confusion is this.
What ever in on (roofrack) , behind (in or on) regards a trailer/van and inside the car. Driven to holidays like a campsite for example on a public high way is whats gets weighed. (The rolling train)
That includes passengers. (most people do not take them into account)
In the case of being overladen I would then imagine it ends on the weight distribution per axle (Trailer being classed as one of the axle units)
Thanks... But should have read the thread!!! Discussing what can be towed on a Cat B license. It's been very confusing!! ::) ::)
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I thought I was cracking up then... Couldn't find the post I quoted but H21 did the same!!
I deleted it because as I re-read it I realised my own error ... and at that point no-one had replied .... some-one (who shall be nameless ....:) ) did a quote far too fast !!
Note to self .. learn to either ... type faster.. or ...make fewer mistakes .. :)
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I think you meant some people!! ;D ;D :y :y
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I havent read the thread in great detail. But a simple way to iron out confusion is this.
What ever in on (roofrack) , behind (in or on) regards a trailer/van and inside the car. Driven to holidays like a campsite for example on a public high way is whats gets weighed. (The rolling train)
That includes passengers. (most people do not take them into account)
In the case of being overladen I would then imagine it ends on the weight distribution per axle (Trailer being classed as one of the axle units)
Thanks... But should have read the thread!!! Discussing what can be towed on a Cat B license. It's been very confusing!! ::) ::)
:y :y
Feet first, think later, my excuses is that my brain still hurts.
Sorry guys, will gen up 1st :-[ :-[
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I've just got back from a meeting at which there were several 'vanners/towers of various ages - we had a chat after and I posed this question...
5 out of 6 were, like me, convinced that as long as the total actual weight was below 3500, the trailer was less than the tug, and the trailer was not overloaded.. then it was legal to tow on a B licence - in fact thats all 2 have !!
The only guy who new the correct rules was the one we all take the piss out of for towing what we consider an "unmatched" outfit ...he now tells us his van is 1500 kgs and his Vectra 2.2 is also 1500kgs so he is "legal" ... 3000 kgs with a MAM of 3100 and the trailer is not heavier than the car.
Problem is, he is the guy you all hate ... underpowered, running at at least 100%, and probably overloaded van IF it was actually weighed when its got the bikes/barby etc etc etc inside ..
So it seems to me .. this law encourages small cars to tow large-ish vans as folks don't want to take the +E bit .. :(
Not good ?? or have I got it wrong ... again ?? :)
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Could we old(er) farts take the E bit if we wanted? And if we did, where would you go, what kind of trailer would you use & would you take your own? :-/ As said, all as clear as mud! :-/
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I've just got back from a meeting at which there were several 'vanners/towers of various ages - we had a chat after and I posed this question...
5 out of 6 were, like me, convinced that as long as the total actual weight was below 3500, the trailer was less than the tug, and the trailer was not overloaded.. then it was legal to tow on a B licence - in fact thats all 2 have !!
The only guy who new the correct rules was the one we all take the piss out of for towing what we consider an "unmatched" outfit ...he now tells us his van is 1500 kgs and his Vectra 2.2 is also 1500kgs so he is "legal" ... 3000 kgs with a MAM of 3100 and the trailer is not heavier than the car.
Problem is, he is the guy you all hate ... underpowered, running at at least 100%, and probably overloaded van IF it was actually weighed when its got the bikes/barby etc etc etc inside ..
So it seems to me .. this law encourages small cars to tow large-ish vans as folks don't want to take the +E bit .. :(
Not good ?? or have I got it wrong ... again ?? :)
That is very similar to my understanding entwood, however I do also see it from the lawful (H21) point of view as well.
I am not sure I would be towing anything over 750kgs at the minute, but work have agreed to put me through the B+E test asap as I will have to start transporting race cars soon.
I still say it is a ridiculous and pointless rule - at the end of the day did drivers become worse during 1997 ??
Thanks for everyones advice though, didn't intend for this to get so confusing, heated or involved :-/
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..... - at the end of the day did drivers become worse during 1997 ?? ......
I think those taking their test after 97 have become a LOT worse! ;D ;D ;D ::)
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Could we old(er) farts take the E bit if we wanted? And if we did, where would you go, what kind of trailer would you use & would you take your own? :-/ As said, all as clear as mud! :-/
Unless you feel you need the practice, in which case why not just have a few lessons, why would you want to take a test for an entitlement you already have? Just throwing money away and suffering the potential shame of an examiner telling you you've failed!! :-? :-?
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Could we old(er) farts take the E bit if we wanted? And if we did, where would you go, what kind of trailer would you use & would you take your own? :-/ As said, all as clear as mud! :-/
Unless you feel you need the practice, in which case why not just have a few lessons, why would you want to take a test for an entitlement you already have? Just throwing money away and suffering the potential shame of an examiner telling you you've failed!! :-? :-?
I can tow & reverse a trailer OK I was just wondering ...... ::) :y
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So it seems to me .. this law encourages small cars to tow large-ish vans as folks don't want to take the +E bit .. :(
Not good ?? or have I got it wrong ... again ?? :)
Exactly. I find this worrying too. If you've got a total MAM budget to get under you'll be encouraged to use a smaller car to tow a bigger load. You can't leave half your caravan at home, after all.
Complete opposite to what is safer in practice. If you've got a heavy load to tow, the heavier the towing vehicle the more stable it'll be for an inexperienced driver. Another stupid bit of legislation thought up by a pen pusher who has only ever driven a desk. >:(
A more sensible rule would be a blanket 750 Kg limit or only allowing utilisation of a percentage of the train MAM on a class B.
Kevin