Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: djhorner on 20 April 2013, 00:39:34

Title: dual ram removal
Post by: djhorner on 20 April 2013, 00:39:34
needing help trying to get rid of the dual ram air system
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: zirk on 20 April 2013, 00:55:02
Why do you want to do this?, GM spent a lot of time and money designing the system.
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: dbug on 20 April 2013, 01:00:08
Why do you want to do this?, GM spent a lot of time and money designing the system.
+1 ???
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: djhorner on 20 April 2013, 01:25:52
just looking to get a few extra horses every little helps but if its use i'll leave stock
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: zirk on 20 April 2013, 01:30:21
Kindly suggest you read up on exactly what the multi-ram system does and how it effects your torque and power curves.  ;)
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: 05omegav6 on 20 April 2013, 10:22:21
This might help explain why best to leave alone :y

 http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90513.0  (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90513.0) :y
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: djhorner on 23 April 2013, 21:54:44
cheers guys it'll be getting left as is
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 23 April 2013, 22:00:44
dual ram system is designed for the purpose of fuel efficiency and low down torque values like other parts of engines.. so mostly for street use not for high performance..  if you want to increase engine efficiency , the air path must be as short as possible..  and there are other numerous details..  :y
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: symes on 23 April 2013, 22:45:27
how about removing bag pipes and fitting power box-made one on my purple miggy- went like stink :y :y others will argue-but
definitely noticed the improvement :y :y 
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 23 April 2013, 23:16:38
how about removing bag pipes and fitting power box-made one on my purple miggy- went like stink :y :y others will argue-but
definitely noticed the improvement :y :y

if you supply more air you can burn more fuel.. so why not ..
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: Kevin Wood on 24 April 2013, 10:45:45
dual ram system is designed for the purpose of fuel efficiency and low down torque values like other parts of engines.. so mostly for street use not for high performance..  if you want to increase engine efficiency , the air path must be as short as possible..  and there are other numerous details..  :y

Not necessarily. There will be an optimum length depending on where you expect the engine to make the best power, as the intake behaves like an organ pipe, and you can exploit this effect to bolster the power at some speeds.

The multiram intake is tuned to work well with the standard cams fitted to the V6, so, whilst you might get a few more horsepower at peak RPM, you'll lose out when a big hole appears in the midrange.

Unless you've fitted hot cams (and ported the heads to allow higher flow at high RPM) I doubt there's much to be gained by messing with the intake, TBH, and a heavy car like an Omega needs its' low RPM torque intact.
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 24 April 2013, 12:26:22
dual ram system is designed for the purpose of fuel efficiency and low down torque values like other parts of engines.. so mostly for street use not for high performance..  if you want to increase engine efficiency , the air path must be as short as possible..  and there are other numerous details..  :y

Not necessarily. There will be an optimum length depending on where you expect the engine to make the best power, as the intake behaves like an organ pipe, and you can exploit this effect to bolster the power at some speeds.

The multiram intake is tuned to work well with the standard cams fitted to the V6, so, whilst 1.you might get a few more horsepower at peak RPM, you'll lose out when a big hole appears in the midrange.


2.Unless you've fitted hot cams (and ported the heads to allow higher flow at high RPM) I doubt there's much to be gained by messing with the intake, TBH, and a heavy car like an Omega needs its' low RPM torque intact.

1-2  agreed.. but it wont be few hp.. as you also said , if engine fully modified the gains will be high depending on the engine size and throttle+valve+cam design
 
Kevin, as a general rule, you can get more energy by only using more air as the fuel air ratio is fix..  this means you must get maximum air possible during the piston cycle.. so for performance engines designers keep the inlet tubes as short as possible to breathe more air.. obviously long tubular structures wont help engine to breathe at higher rpms.. (of course there are other calculations like air flow velocity, flow type etc)
 
however,  we must accept the fact that street and race usage are different.. on a race yo try to keep the revs as high as possible so air paths must be short.. but on the street your revs are comparingly low on a daily use which in that case you will need this mentioned torque.. but some of us  ::)  can sacrifice mid-range  ;D
 
the only solution to that is variable rate cam-valve system which the omega dont have :-\
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 24 April 2013, 12:38:00
also I can say on a 3.2 , with high degree cams (must be custom built I never see any around) , head work, custom exhaust with headers, bigger valves than stock, re-map,you can take easily (though not cheap)  extra 50-60 hp..
 
but later you may need extra modifications on cooling and bottom end.. :-\
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: Kevin Wood on 24 April 2013, 13:06:50
Quote
Kevin, as a general rule, you can get more energy by only using more air as the fuel air ratio is fix..  this means you must get maximum air possible during the piston cycle..

Yes, it's obvious that more air = more power, but a short intake won't necessarily help, and will probably do the opposite if no other modifications are made.

Quote
also I can say on a 3.2 , with high degree cams (must be custom built I never see any around) , head work, custom exhaust with headers, bigger valves than stock, re-map,you can take easily (though not cheap)  extra 50-60 hp..

You're describing a full race engine, which is the argument I made, that you need to address all areas before binning the standard intake will help. I would expect such an engine to have no MAF, individual throttle bodies and, unless the engine is modified to take much more revs, the ideal intakes will still be in the order of 30-40cm long. Often they won't fit under the bonnet, of course, so you compromise with a shorter length.

You still need to calculate the best length (or experiment) shorter != better. ;)
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 24 April 2013, 15:21:36
Quote
Kevin, as a general rule, you can get more energy by only using more air as the fuel air ratio is fix..  this means you must get maximum air possible during the piston cycle..

Yes, it's obvious that more air = more power, but a short intake won't necessarily help, and will probably do the opposite if no other modifications are made.

Quote
also I can say on a 3.2 , with high degree cams (must be custom built I never see any around) , head work, custom exhaust with headers, bigger valves than stock, re-map,you can take easily (though not cheap)  extra 50-60 hp..

You're describing a full race engine, which is the argument I made, that you need to address all areas before binning the standard intake will help. I would expect such an engine to have no MAF, individual throttle bodies and, unless the engine is modified to take much more revs, the ideal intakes will still be in the order of 30-40cm long. Often they won't fit under the bonnet, of course, so you compromise with a shorter length.

You still need to calculate the best length (or experiment) shorter != better. ;)

agreed and yes.. they must be around that size :) ;)
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: omega3000 on 24 April 2013, 16:07:34
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOwrw1uUZWs   Bagpipes doing overtime  ;D
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 24 April 2013, 18:05:31
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOwrw1uUZWs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOwrw1uUZWs)   Bagpipes doing overtime  ;D

 
those bagpipes will blow up when installation uses higher pressures.. :-\
Title: Re: dual ram removal
Post by: ste_nova on 05 May 2013, 16:21:52
firstly hi to anyone who knows me from mig years back :)

and now talk to me about reducing the size of the dual ram equipment please :)
 on this  :D

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8416/8710911378_d09312a1dc_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ste_nova/8710911378/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ste_nova/8710911378/) by Ste_Nova (http://www.flickr.com/people/ste_nova/), on Flickr

also.... limp mode on an omega... does it make it slower or is it like a 20xe where as long as it has afm/cps/tps it will go welll