Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: terry paget on 21 April 2013, 14:15:23
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Over many years I have found my Senator/Omega front tyres wearing unevenly, mainly on the inside; not necessarily both front tyres the same, and not either always left or right. I conclude the camber angle must vary.
As the suspension is lower wishbone and Mcpherson strut, the camber must vary with suspension movement. So I expect it to wear out both front tyres on both sides.
On my son Jonny's 2 litre petrol manual Omega it wears out o/s front tyres on the inside. Today I found the adjustment between the Mcpherson strut and the knuckle, and after a struggle managed to loosen the nuts and move the knuckle slightly, to lean the wheel outwards at the top. Time will tell if the tyre wear pattern has been changed.
I wonder what the laser alignment shops do. Haynes just says -1degree40' + or -45', maximum deviation left to right wheel 1degree. I'll think about that.
Please advise.
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Between 1° and 1°10" is recommended for the Omega :y 1°40" is considered a touch too aggressive especially with wider wheels.
Best take it to Wheels In Motion or one of their recommended places near you. Unless it is set up properly front and back, you'll be doing the front tyres in a couple of weeks.
Looking for 1°10" front camber
0°05" front toe
1°45" rear camber
0°06" rear toe
0° thrust angle
Any significant deviation from this and the car will drive like a dog and eat tyres quicker than you can say "That tyre has only done 200 miles"
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Thanks for the advice, ex taxi al. My nearest Wheels in Motion is at High Wycombe, 100 miles away. My local tyre dealer only does toe in, and that only if he can turn the track rod adjusters; mine seem to rust solid.
Apologies to OOF. When I posted I had not read the maintenance guide. I have now. Setting camber seems tedious, a trial and error job, and Haynes says requires a full tank of fuel and 70 kilos in each front seat. Do Wheels in Motion really do all that?
My rear track rods are rusted solid. Do they free them off, or just measure the rear track and report it?
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Thanks for the advice, ex taxi al. My nearest Wheels in Motion is at High Wycombe, 100 miles away. My local tyre dealer only does toe in, and that only if he can turn the track rod adjusters; mine seem to rust solid.
Likewise, worth the trip though :y
Apologies to OOF. When I posted I had not read the maintenance guide. I have now. Setting camber seems tedious, a trial and error job, and Haynes says requires a full tank of fuel and 70 kilos in each front seat. Do Wheels in Motion really do all that?
Their settings aim to produce the best results for the Omega, based on a wealth of knowledge and experience, hence the differences between their settings and the factory ones :y
My rear track rods are rusted solid. Do they free them off, or just measure the rear track and report it?
They do try to free them off, but to give them a fighting chance, liberally spray plus gas over the track rods front and rear every day for a week or so before going :y
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Apologies to OOF. When I posted I had not read the maintenance guide. I have now. Setting camber seems tedious, a trial and error job, and Haynes says requires a full tank of fuel and 70 kilos in each front seat. Do Wheels in Motion really do all that?
I don't see why it's a trial and error job, I did mine in the street with makeshift equipment. When I finally got around to having the wheel alignment done properly, it was bang on what I'd set it to.
The camber is read directly off the wheel, so all you need is some way of reading the angle to minutes of a degree. I used a £20 Wixey magnetic bevel gauge(bought for setting workpieces at an angle on the milling machine), stuck to piece of 2" angle iron cable tied across the wheel rim. The gauge was zeroed on the rest of the angle iron set on the ground between the wheels. Then the fun part starts; it's difficult to adjust the strut and tighten the bolts without being under the car, but it is achievable with 2 people. He used the jack handle in the spokes of the wheel to adjust and hold the camber with the car on its wheels, whilst I struggled to tighten the bolts without moving anything. This got the camber set to -1.2 degrees, which is what the machine measured it as 18 months later.
Now the bad news, you still don't have the rest of the front suspension adjusted correctly. And adjusting one can seriously affect the others. Even though my cambers were acceptable, it was still killing tyres in 4000 miles. That turned out to be 6mm toe-in on one side, and 13mm on the other! Bringing the toe into line also tweaked the camber settings, so they're now slightly more than optimum, but it drives so well I've elected to leave them. after all, it's how the car works that matters, not the actual numbers.
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Thanks for the advice, ex taxi al. My nearest Wheels in Motion is at High Wycombe, 100 miles away. My local tyre dealer only does toe in, and that only if he can turn the track rod adjusters; mine seem to rust solid.
Apologies to OOF. When I posted I had not read the maintenance guide. I have now. Setting camber seems tedious, a trial and error job, and Haynes says requires a full tank of fuel and 70 kilos in each front seat. Do Wheels in Motion really do all that?
My rear track rods are rusted solid. Do they free them off, or just measure the rear track and report it?
It is highly tedious. Set it as best you can, then get the pros to do it.
Ignore the Haynes weights and measures. Wheels in motion have far better settings without all that crap.
OOF get a special rate at Wheels in motion. Lube the track rods front and rear thoroughly for a week or so prior.
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Between 1° and 1°10" is recommended for the Omega :y 1°40" is considered a touch too aggressive especially with wider wheels.
Think you may have meant -1° and -1°10". Not being pedantic, just want to ensure OP is armed with the right information if they take the vehicle to a geometry specialist who doesn't have the full Omega knowledge. :y
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Between 1° and 1°10" is recommended for the Omega :y 1°40" is considered a touch too aggressive especially with wider wheels.
Think you may have meant -1° and -1°10". Not being pedantic, just want to ensure OP is armed with the right information if they take the vehicle to a geometry specialist who doesn't have the full Omega knowledge. :y
:y My oversight...
Will double check set up report int' morning to confirm positive/negative for remaining settings :y
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The FRONT alignment adjustments MUST be done in this order:
1. Castor angle: Should be equal on both sides, and achieved by repositioning the sub-frame
accordingly.
2. Camber angle: Adjust each side to WIM specs.
3. Alignment: Adjust to WIM specs; ensuring BOTH tie rods are of equal lengths. The pitman arm and idler arm will then be equidistant from each chassis rail.
If you don't fancy the trip to Chesham, here's a WIM-approved centre in Bristol:
http://www.fcmwheelalignment.co.uk/#
And one in Melksham:
http://www.carsontyre.co.uk/
HTH ;)
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ATS also have the equipment to do the 4 wheel alignment,have had one done there but to early to say wether they are any good :-\ The other two cars are now ready for the same, but in all honesty I don't have the time to drive over to Chesham when ATS is a 15 minute drive away from me,probably going to regret not doing so :'(
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An interesting update after a conversation with WIM today - they no longer have any approved centres. The website needs updating apparently.
Mine is currently at what I thought was an approved centre but no longer is and I just had an 'interesting' conversation about the values I wanted to use.
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Was that a nice ''interesting'' or something else? :-\
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Was that a nice ''interesting'' or something else? :-\
I'm not getting the settings I wanted.........
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Was that a nice ''interesting'' or something else? :-\
I'm not getting the settings I wanted.........
Then don't pay. You are the customer ... they set it to how YOU want ... end of story.
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Was that a nice ''interesting'' or something else? :-\
I'm not getting the settings I wanted.........
Then don't pay. You are the customer ... they set it to how YOU want ... end of story.
Exactly... if I had read this earlier, I would have said the exact same thing :-\
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I took the offer of try it and if you don't like it we will put your settings in for you for now. :-\
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I'd be taking it back then :y
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As said before, castor angle is set on original assembly, and only frontal collision will vary it. If wrong, it will cause car to pull to left or right.
Camber is also set on assembly and should not vary unless strut or hub is changed. Camber will vary with suspension movement. It should be -1.5 degrees (top inward) with car normally loaded; compression or extension of front suspension will cause it to increase by about 2 degrees, to +0.5 degrees. It will not affect handling or feel, but will exacerbate uneven tyre wear.
Toe-in is critical for both handling and feel, so fine adjustment is provided in track rod adjusters. My method sets it right first time with steering wheel central, but Chris fears it will bend wishbones.
Rear camber and toe-in are set on assembly and should not need attention unless collision or failing track rod joints occur. I suppose it would cause 'crabbing' if way out. I have never known it. I would spot it when setting front toe-in.
Nice to see an old thread again.
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FCM in St George (Bristol) set up the Omega I sold to you & were well versed in the problems of age/wear related alterations to the omega suspension. I emailed WIM to get the appropriate settings and gave them to FCM. X JAT was crabbing a bit when I first got it and the front end was so far off that anything over 50mph in a straight line was impossible. I think the print out went in the folder I gave you.
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ATS also have the equipment to do the 4 wheel alignment
That's not the same thing...
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FCM in St George (Bristol) set up the Omega I sold to you & were well versed in the problems of age/wear related alterations to the omega suspension. I emailed WIM to get the appropriate settings and gave them to FCM. X JAT was crabbing a bit when I first got it and the front end was so far off that anything over 50mph in a straight line was impossible. I think the print out went in the folder I gave you.
Hi Anthony. I am glad you still follow the Forum now you have sold your Omega. I have the FCM print out before me now. It looks good to me. I changed the wishbones and the track rods when I bought the car, and the handling seems perfect to me. It is my favourite car, top of the range, a CDX with cruise etc. I hope your wife still likes her V6 Vectra, and you your Jaguar.
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Thanks Terry
I missed X JAT so much I went out last w/e and bought an omega 2.2DTI estate.
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Welcome back, Anthony. I hope you like the diesel.
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Here's what the settings should look like in a reasonable world...
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150128_193416_zpsn83zggsa.jpg)
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I seem to have developed a loud clunking when on full left lock now so need to get back under the car and see what's going on!
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I seem to have developed a loud clunking when on full left lock now so need to get back under the car and see what's going on!
Could be balance weight on inside rim of wheel hitting the brake caliper. Have you changed n/s front wheel recently?
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Hadn't even considered that, I did move rear wheel to front as tyres had even wear.
I will start there, thank you - that would be much better than suspension component issue!
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You will probably see shiny marks on the guilty balance weight.