Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Terbs on 03 June 2013, 20:29:59

Title: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Terbs on 03 June 2013, 20:29:59
Hi all...
You will recall my problem with car swerving left on braking. Its had disks, pads, wishbones etc.
The caliphers have all been off and checked, the wishbones checked for play, all other joints etc, etc checked and cleared.
Now been put on some machine at another garage, and confirmed not a braking problem.
Although both garages found no play in the wishbones, I have instructed (after reading all your replies) that the wishbones must be changed again.
So....what do Genuine wishbones cost....anyone got some or Andy C job, or another supplier at decent price. Advice appreciated. If its something people may have spare, I'll put a request in the Wanted section :y
If after fitting, the car is cured, they are going to put in a warranty claim. As nothing else can be found wrong, I see no other course of action.
Have to ask the question, what makes the genuine wishbones different to others ?
This problem has only occurred within two months of original work and WIM setting up.... :(
Tony
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Andy B on 03 June 2013, 20:33:56
 .......... waits for Gixxer Chris's reply  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: symes on 03 June 2013, 21:14:27
just a thought - wonder if not wishbones then what are your suspension legs like? wonder if it is spring/leg fault-as weight transfer to front when braking
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Terbs on 03 June 2013, 21:21:41
I can ask the question, symes......although I was given to think that had all been checked, but no harm in asking :y
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: symes on 03 June 2013, 21:28:55
as I say mate-my rover started doing that and it was my spring :o
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: YZ250 on 03 June 2013, 21:31:12
...............
So....what do Genuine wishbones cost....anyone got some or Andy C job, or another supplier at decent price.

In excess of £250 last time that I enquired.......EACH.  :o :o
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: albitz on 03 June 2013, 21:32:42
Iirc Lemforder are the wishbones of choice.
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 03 June 2013, 21:33:03
Best bring it round Terbs.

What wishbones where fitted?

How where they tightened up?

...and to what torque?

 :y
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: symes on 03 June 2013, 21:34:03
check his struts too mate :y
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 03 June 2013, 21:36:56
Check his head as well while I'm at it. Pattern bloody parts indeed.   ::)



  ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: symes on 03 June 2013, 21:43:05
Iirc Lemforder are the wishbones of choice.
that's on mine :y and only ever fit them on customers miggys -will not use any other  :y
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Andy H on 03 June 2013, 21:46:01
Iirc Lemforder are the wishbones of choice.
I fitted Lemforder about a year ago. Bushes are too soft IME.

More recently I fitted front polybushes and GM rear (vertical) bushes and balljoints to the Lemforder wishbones. That seems to have sorted things for now.

I have read that Mehle wishbones might be better :-\
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: 05omegav6 on 03 June 2013, 21:52:11
Front polys are money well spent :y
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: sassanach on 03 June 2013, 21:54:41
+1 :y
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 03 June 2013, 21:57:43
Don't buy any more parts until we've nailed this down Terbs.

But they are right, btw.  :y


Ps I have a press here so we could press new rear bushes. gm are £14 each. Although Meyle(?) heavy duty are the way go probably.
And powerflex poly front bushes are... £50 odd...? Anyone got a link for him? :)
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: 05omegav6 on 03 June 2013, 22:01:39
This what they look like...

 http://www.powerflex.co.uk/road-series/product-details/Front+Wishbone+Front+Bush/1760.html  (http://www.powerflex.co.uk/road-series/product-details/Front+Wishbone+Front+Bush/1760.html)

And this what they cost...

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POWERFLEX-BUSH-Vauxhall-Omega-B-94-2003-PFF80-902-/300762360217?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4606d56999  (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POWERFLEX-BUSH-Vauxhall-Omega-B-94-2003-PFF80-902-/300762360217?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4606d56999)

 :y
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Terbs on 03 June 2013, 22:11:26
If its the bushes on the wishbone (you will have to excuse my ignorance on the subject) questions are...

1.....how many on each wishbone
2....can these new bushes (poly or whatever) be fitted on a pattern part (if that is what has been fitted to mine)

Chrisgixer....pm being sent :y
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 03 June 2013, 22:16:21
1,One poly per wishbone. So two needed , for the front bush of each wishbone. As the link.

Ditto rearward bush. No poly exist for these, so its the toughest rearward rubber bush

2, yes provided they are sensibly made.

Need a look see really.
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: 05omegav6 on 03 June 2013, 22:20:32
To clarify, the ebay link is for both bushes, left and right :y
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: VXL V6 on 03 June 2013, 22:34:48
Don't buy any more parts until we've nailed this down Terbs.

But they are right, btw.  :y


Ps I have a press here so we could press new rear bushes. gm are £14 each. Although Meyle(?) heavy duty are the way go probably.
And powerflex poly front bushes are... £50 odd...? Anyone got a link for him? :)

Well Meyle front heavy duty bushes are slightly firmer than the ones fitted to Lemforder wishbones but I wouldn't bother with either now. If I get another Omega i'll just do the same as i've recently done on my 3.2 - New Lemforder wishbones with the rears replaced with genuine GM bushes and Poly's in the front. At least you don't have to keep re-doing the geometry then!
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: 05omegav6 on 03 June 2013, 22:40:21
Agreed :y You could even go a step further and replace the balljoint with genuine ones if you can get them for sensible money, that way the arm need never come off again if your mileage is low :y (on the basis that genuine arms last between 80 and 120k).
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 03 June 2013, 22:57:16
Not relevant to Terbert, but....


If only we could find a rearward Poly solution.  :-X
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: 05omegav6 on 03 June 2013, 23:08:43
Not relevant to Terbert, but....


If only we could find a rearward Poly solution.  :-X
Mine have started creaking :'( although, in fairness, they've done considerably better than the first attempt :-\
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Terbs on 03 June 2013, 23:16:58
I am reading all these replies with great interest, thanks for the links etc. I have just been to all german parts....and they have Lemforder wishbones £130 a pair with free overnight delivery :y

Right, I know you buffs go for the best  (GM quite rightly) and I appreciate the comments regarding hardness/softness, Lemforder/Meyle and so on, and all options will be given careful thought but.......
Would an old plodder like me, doing about 4000 miles a year in each Omega really notice (or be affected by) hardness and softness of bushes. An Omega to me is sitting in a classy car and getting myself from A to B in relative comfort. Assuming crap wishbones have been fitted, to be honest, the car seemed to drive perfectly for two months since fitted. I could not tell you the difference to the old worn out ones and the new.
So if it does turn out to be Wishbones, would I really notice any difference by just fitting Lemforders complete, rather than poly bushes (taking into account longevity of poly bushes)
What is the expected lifespan of Lemforder bones at 4000 miles a year and not throwing it about ........
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 03 June 2013, 23:19:06
Not relevant to Terbert, but....


If only we could find a rearward Poly solution.  :-X
Mine have started creaking :'( although, in fairness, they've done considerably better than the first attempt :-\
They are the Mark III version aren't they? No IV, counting the ones tried further north...?
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: 05omegav6 on 03 June 2013, 23:29:31
Not relevant to Terbert, but....


If only we could find a rearward Poly solution.  :-X
Mine have started creaking :'( although, in fairness, they've done considerably better than the first attempt :-\
They are the Mark III version aren't they? No IV, counting the ones tried further north...?
I'll give you that, though only the second set tested on this car :y
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 03 June 2013, 23:33:41
I am reading all these replies with great interest, thanks for the links etc. I have just been to all german parts....and they have Lemforder wishbones £130 a pair with free overnight delivery :y

Right, I know you buffs go for the best  (GM quite rightly) and I appreciate the comments regarding hardness/softness, Lemforder/Meyle and so on, and all options will be given careful thought but.......
Would an old plodder like me, doing about 4000 miles a year in each Omega really notice (or be affected by) hardness and softness of bushes. An Omega to me is sitting in a classy car and getting myself from A to B in relative comfort. Assuming crap wishbones have been fitted, to be honest, the car seemed to drive perfectly for two months since fitted. I could not tell you the difference to the old worn out ones and the new.
So if it does turn out to be Wishbones, would I really notice any difference by just fitting Lemforders complete, rather than poly bushes (taking into account longevity of poly bushes)
What is the expected lifespan of Lemforder bones at 4000 miles a year and not throwing it about ........

Poly don't wear out. And its that frint bush that fails first. So its a case of reliability and accuracy, with a slight loss of comfort as a trade off with Poly. They are firmer, so will transmit slightl more high frequency small bumps to the driver. The vast majority of owners find this a very acceptable trade off.

However, one could equally argue that more steady driver is less likely to wear out oe rubber bushes, and wouldn't find great benefit in the accuracy of the car. So might well be paying an unwelcome price on the comfort front.

I do tend to say to more sedate drivers that a good course might be to fit lemforder wishbones  (correctly) first off. Then fit poly once the front bushes fail. Poly can then be fitted in about half hour a side. Rearward bush lasts about two years for me, so you should be fine at less than a quarter of the miles with a lot less abuse, if that helps? Although Elite suspension is softer, so wears the bushes faster, relatively speaking.

Some here say that the best course is to refurb the wbone completely. New ball joints x2, rear bush x2, poly front bush x2. But if your paying labour as well, the border line cost compared to Lemforder, then becomes prohibitive in that case.


Over all. Fit Lemforder new. Then fit poly if needed later IMO.


But again, if fitting bones with rubber front bushes. The bolts must be tightened as the guide. Ie, wheels loaded at the correct ride height.
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 03 June 2013, 23:40:00
I've just bought a pair of new wishbones on the bay for £45!  :)  I'll let you know how long they last!!  ::)  ;D
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Terbs on 03 June 2013, 23:40:15
Brilliant :y :y :y :y :y

That was to the gixer

Blimey Tigger....hope you're just having a laugh ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 03 June 2013, 23:47:29
I've just bought a pair of new wishbones on the bay for £45!  :)  I'll let you know how long they last!!  ::)  ;D

As TB would say, "Stupid boy Pike"  ::)  :P  ;)
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 04 June 2013, 00:48:21
Blimey Tigger....hope you're just having a laugh ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Nope! Deadly serious.  :)  My front wishbone bushes were shot to hell and the pair of new wishbones were only marginally more expensive than just buying the bushes, so I thought I treat the old girl!!  ;) 

So far so good, it's like driving a different car as mine used to grab to the left under braking as well.  ::)  I've no great expectations of them to be honest as you get what you pay for, but I treat the old girl gently these days and as funds are tight at the mo, it's kept her on the road for another year!!  :y

Edit: Maybe if I'm passing Reading sometime I'll let Mr Gixer run his eye over them!  :P  ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: terry paget on 04 June 2013, 08:57:23
T367KHL 2 litre petrol manual
I had a steering twitch on braking a couple of years back; son Jonny's car, I had it home for MOT. It passed MOT, but I did not like the steering twitch, so I changed the front discs and pads - no change. It would do it at low speed, so I got the car over my inspection pit, got in the pit myself, and had the wife drive the car slowly forward and brake. Then the fault was obvious, it was the front bush on the n/s wishbone. I changed both wishbones, fault cured.

 
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: VXL V6 on 04 June 2013, 19:07:35
Over all. Fit Lemforder new. Then fit poly if needed later IMO.

So that's 2 x Geo's required then.... ££££

As you mention though, all depends on driving style, if the original Lemforder bushes last more than the 8K I got out of them (so 2 years for Terbert at his mileage) then the car is probably due a full Geo IMHO.

Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Terbs on 04 June 2013, 20:59:53
Car has had new wishbones fitted, FOC, and is booked into WIM at 3.0pm tomorrow. That's all I can say at the moment. :y
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Terbs on 05 June 2013, 16:52:35
Just been wimmed....now we shall wait and see how long everything lasts. :y

Drives like a dream again now.
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 05 June 2013, 17:42:36
Just been wimmed....now we shall wait and see how long everything lasts. :y

Drives like a dream again now.
Good news.  :y
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: moggy on 05 June 2013, 18:02:44
Just been wimmed....now we shall wait and see how long everything lasts. :y

Drives like a dream again now.
Hi Terbert,do you mind me asking how much for the geo set up there.Regards dean :y
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Terbs on 05 June 2013, 19:36:07
It costs £72 including VAT........that's with our discount. Proper price is £120 plus VAT :y
Title: Re: Update to my Brakes help thread
Post by: Terbs on 05 June 2013, 19:36:56
It costs £72 including VAT........that's with our discount. Proper price is £120 plus VAT :y


Allow up to an hour timewise :y     Dunno how I managed that, but you got it twice now ;D ;D