Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: phil her up on 15 May 2008, 21:57:11

Title: computer stuff
Post by: phil her up on 15 May 2008, 21:57:11
went to the car boot on sun & bagged another bargain, Antec sonata 11 case, asrock mother board  with on board sound ) graphics, western digital caviar 250g hard drive, 700+ mb ddr ram,550 watt twin fan power supply, amd 2000xp+ processor & dvd rw multi drive all for £40....it is a bit cold tonite I'll get my anorak ;D
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: jules on 15 May 2008, 21:59:04
talking in tongues is banned on here  :-/
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: HolyCount on 15 May 2008, 22:05:48
Sheesh -- practically a complete system for £40 -- nice going  :y
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 15 May 2008, 22:08:24
Cracking case matey, thats what my system is built in.

Cost at the time was £89 plus he tvat
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Debs. on 15 May 2008, 22:16:22
Quote
went to the car boot on sun & bagged another bargain, Antec sonata 11 case, asrock mother board  with on board sound ) graphics, western digital caviar 250g hard drive, 700+ mb ddr ram,550 watt twin fan power supply, amd 2000xp+ processor & dvd rw multi drive all for £40....it is a bit cold tonite I'll get my anorak ;D

 ;D It`s rude to gloat! ;D

Well done you..... :y
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Vamps on 15 May 2008, 22:25:51
Deb's thinks it's good, then so do I, though. to be hones I have no idea what you are talking about. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: zippo on 15 May 2008, 22:30:09
Ive not a clue what you have just said, but if your happy with it good luck to you  :y :y :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: TheBoy on 16 May 2008, 08:22:54
rather hell, I can't even give away far better systems than that - just binned a load of decent p4 stuff as nobody wanted to come and collect  :'(
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Leomas on 16 May 2008, 09:40:00
I know your pain...I have a couple of flat panel monitors that no-one wants and I can't be bothered to be scammed on eBay with them
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: TheBoy on 16 May 2008, 19:00:16
LOL, strangely, I am short of a small (around 15") LCD for the OOF server - its hanging off a CRT at the moment, and making strange arcing noises....
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Kevin Wood on 16 May 2008, 19:02:42

Quote
I know your pain...I have a couple of flat panel monitors that no-one wants and I can't be bothered to be scammed on eBay with them

No one got a spare backlight inverter transformer for an LG Flatron 17" flat panel, I suppose?  :-/

Kevin


Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Martin_1962 on 16 May 2008, 19:09:14
Throwing computer components, I'd use them to build a children PC as we all fight for this one now!
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: TheBoy on 16 May 2008, 21:07:09
I may still have the old OOF server somewhere, or at least most of it.  Though that was pretty shagged towards the end...
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 16 May 2008, 21:17:09
The old server.

(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk106/skruntie/computer_fire.jpg)
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Jimbob on 16 May 2008, 21:22:19
Quote
The old server.

(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk106/skruntie/computer_fire.jpg)


Dont be daft,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, thats the replacement server ;D
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: TheBoy on 16 May 2008, 21:25:33
Quote
Quote
The old server.

(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk106/skruntie/computer_fire.jpg)


Dont be daft,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, thats the replacement server ;D
A remarkable similarity ;D
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Martin_1962 on 17 May 2008, 09:22:22
We ran the same server for nearly 10 years until the original drive failed.

It had had 2 or 3 extra drives, 3 NOSes, 1 case and 3 CPUs and mother boards.

Last seen with one of the newer drives hosting a 4th NOS.

Run out of space - put in extra drive and merge it in, go a bit slow new MB processor - started as 3.11 ended up as 6.0 without original drive via 4.10 (I think) and 4.11 SP4
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Gaffers on 17 May 2008, 09:37:00
Quote
rather hell, I can't even give away far better systems than that - just binned a load of decent p4 stuff as nobody wanted to come and collect  :'(

And you didnt ask moi?  :'(
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Gaffers on 17 May 2008, 09:37:47
Quote
I know your pain...I have a couple of flat panel monitors that no-one wants and I can't be bothered to be scammed on eBay with them

How big?  :)
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: TheBoy on 17 May 2008, 12:09:50
Quote
We ran the same server for nearly 10 years until the original drive failed.

It had had 2 or 3 extra drives, 3 NOSes, 1 case and 3 CPUs and mother boards.

Last seen with one of the newer drives hosting a 4th NOS.

Run out of space - put in extra drive and merge it in, go a bit slow new MB processor - started as 3.11 ended up as 6.0 without original drive via 4.10 (I think) and 4.11 SP4
Except Netware was pretty rubbish at multiprocessor stuff until v5. Actually, didn't really get to grips with it until v6's Linux kernel.
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: theowletman on 17 May 2008, 12:19:16
Quote
went to the car boot on sun & bagged another bargain, Antec sonata 11 case, asrock mother board  with on board sound ) graphics, western digital caviar 250g hard drive, 700+ mb ddr ram,550 watt twin fan power supply, amd 2000xp+ processor & dvd rw multi drive all for £40....it is a bit cold tonite I'll get my anorak ;D
Any chance of a picture as I haven't a clue what you are on about ? Do you get mashed or boiled potatoes with whatever it is you are describing ?
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Martin_1962 on 17 May 2008, 14:17:19
Quote
Quote
We ran the same server for nearly 10 years until the original drive failed.

It had had 2 or 3 extra drives, 3 NOSes, 1 case and 3 CPUs and mother boards.

Last seen with one of the newer drives hosting a 4th NOS.

Run out of space - put in extra drive and merge it in, go a bit slow new MB processor - started as 3.11 ended up as 6.0 without original drive via 4.10 (I think) and 4.11 SP4
Except Netware was pretty rubbish at multiprocessor stuff until v5. Actually, didn't really get to grips with it until v6's Linux kernel.

Went well enough as a single processor - ours started as a 386!

Run 486 for a few years then a pentium of some form.

Back in the NW4.11 era multiprocessor was no big deal the server would handle more throughput than an NT box anyway - seen the tests ran by a supplier. Near enough twice the disk performance - about 4x total throughput for same hardware.

Tests were published - Extended Systems did them
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: phil her up on 17 May 2008, 14:25:51
Quote
Any chance of a picture as I haven't a clue what you are on about ? Do you get mashed or boiled potatoes with whatever it is you are describing ?
  It's a computer tower. oh & i didn't mention its loaded with xp pro & nero dvd burning suite :y
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: TheBoy on 17 May 2008, 15:25:24
Quote
Quote
Quote
We ran the same server for nearly 10 years until the original drive failed.

It had had 2 or 3 extra drives, 3 NOSes, 1 case and 3 CPUs and mother boards.

Last seen with one of the newer drives hosting a 4th NOS.

Run out of space - put in extra drive and merge it in, go a bit slow new MB processor - started as 3.11 ended up as 6.0 without original drive via 4.10 (I think) and 4.11 SP4
Except Netware was pretty rubbish at multiprocessor stuff until v5. Actually, didn't really get to grips with it until v6's Linux kernel.

Went well enough as a single processor - ours started as a 386!

Run 486 for a few years then a pentium of some form.

Back in the NW4.11 era multiprocessor was no big deal the server would handle more throughput than an NT box anyway - seen the tests ran by a supplier. Near enough twice the disk performance - about 4x total throughput for same hardware.

Tests were published - Extended Systems did them
I suspect a biased test.  Remember I used to look after around 300 Netware (4.11 mostly) servers, and maybe 200 odd Windows (NT3.51/NT4) servers.  Depending on users/application, mostly Compaq Prosignia 300 (small stuff) and Compaq Proliant 4500 (larger stuff) type stuff.

To be honest, not much between NW411 and NT3.5/4 performance wise.  Netware lost a bucket load of performance between V3 and V4, yet the only real change was moving from Bindery to NDS.  If you needed to use TCP/IP across your WAN routers, Netware's performance died even further, as your choices were IP Tunnels or the utterly awful NetWareIP.

Don't get me wrong, Netware was a decent NOS, esp with NDS.  But Windows servers made as good file/print servers, and far better application servers. And more reliable to.
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Martin_1962 on 17 May 2008, 16:09:37
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
We ran the same server for nearly 10 years until the original drive failed.

It had had 2 or 3 extra drives, 3 NOSes, 1 case and 3 CPUs and mother boards.

Last seen with one of the newer drives hosting a 4th NOS.

Run out of space - put in extra drive and merge it in, go a bit slow new MB processor - started as 3.11 ended up as 6.0 without original drive via 4.10 (I think) and 4.11 SP4
Except Netware was pretty rubbish at multiprocessor stuff until v5. Actually, didn't really get to grips with it until v6's Linux kernel.

Went well enough as a single processor - ours started as a 386!

Run 486 for a few years then a pentium of some form.

Back in the NW4.11 era multiprocessor was no big deal the server would handle more throughput than an NT box anyway - seen the tests ran by a supplier. Near enough twice the disk performance - about 4x total throughput for same hardware.

Tests were published - Extended Systems did them
I suspect a biased test.  Remember I used to look after around 300 Netware (4.11 mostly) servers, and maybe 200 odd Windows (NT3.51/NT4) servers.  Depending on users/application, mostly Compaq Prosignia 300 (small stuff) and Compaq Proliant 4500 (larger stuff) type stuff.

To be honest, not much between NW411 and NT3.5/4 performance wise.  Netware lost a bucket load of performance between V3 and V4, yet the only real change was moving from Bindery to NDS.  If you needed to use TCP/IP across your WAN routers, Netware's performance died even further, as your choices were IP Tunnels or the utterly awful NetWareIP.

Don't get me wrong, Netware was a decent NOS, esp with NDS.  But Windows servers made as good file/print servers, and far better application servers. And more reliable to.



A supplier who produce NLMs and services found on a dual boot server that NT was about 1/4 the speed of Netware, they found the difference was mainly down to Netware disk handling being quicker.

I cannot find the test since they were bought by Sybase
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Leomas on 17 May 2008, 16:51:32
Quote
Quote
I know your pain...I have a couple of flat panel monitors that no-one wants and I can't be bothered to be scammed on eBay with them

How big?  :)

17" @1024*768 and 17" '1280*1024  nothing dramatic but fine for second systems or servers

Wouldn't imagine that they are worth shipping to Germany though :)
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: dbug on 17 May 2008, 17:34:51
 :o  (http://www.dbug.co.uk/pics/smile/pc.gif)   ;)
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: TheBoy on 17 May 2008, 19:21:34
Quote
Quote
Quote
I know your pain...I have a couple of flat panel monitors that no-one wants and I can't be bothered to be scammed on eBay with them

How big?  :)

17" @1024*768 and 17" '1280*1024  nothing dramatic but fine for second systems or servers

Wouldn't imagine that they are worth shipping to Germany though :)
How much?
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: TheBoy on 17 May 2008, 19:31:21
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
We ran the same server for nearly 10 years until the original drive failed.

It had had 2 or 3 extra drives, 3 NOSes, 1 case and 3 CPUs and mother boards.

Last seen with one of the newer drives hosting a 4th NOS.

Run out of space - put in extra drive and merge it in, go a bit slow new MB processor - started as 3.11 ended up as 6.0 without original drive via 4.10 (I think) and 4.11 SP4
Except Netware was pretty rubbish at multiprocessor stuff until v5. Actually, didn't really get to grips with it until v6's Linux kernel.

Went well enough as a single processor - ours started as a 386!

Run 486 for a few years then a pentium of some form.

Back in the NW4.11 era multiprocessor was no big deal the server would handle more throughput than an NT box anyway - seen the tests ran by a supplier. Near enough twice the disk performance - about 4x total throughput for same hardware.

Tests were published - Extended Systems did them
I suspect a biased test.  Remember I used to look after around 300 Netware (4.11 mostly) servers, and maybe 200 odd Windows (NT3.51/NT4) servers.  Depending on users/application, mostly Compaq Prosignia 300 (small stuff) and Compaq Proliant 4500 (larger stuff) type stuff.

To be honest, not much between NW411 and NT3.5/4 performance wise.  Netware lost a bucket load of performance between V3 and V4, yet the only real change was moving from Bindery to NDS.  If you needed to use TCP/IP across your WAN routers, Netware's performance died even further, as your choices were IP Tunnels or the utterly awful NetWareIP.

Don't get me wrong, Netware was a decent NOS, esp with NDS.  But Windows servers made as good file/print servers, and far better application servers. And more reliable to.



A supplier who produce NLMs and services found on a dual boot server that NT was about 1/4 the speed of Netware, they found the difference was mainly down to Netware disk handling being quicker.

I cannot find the test since they were bought by Sybase
NLM supplier - ie, trying to flog Netware stuff ;)

Either that, or set Windows up using FAT.  NTFS has always been more efficient than Netware's filesystem, though its irrelevent, as all servers should be offloading onto a dedicated controller anyway.  Back in the KnitWare 4.11 days, we were using either 16Mb (up to 12M battery backed) or 64Mb (56Mb battery backed) cached SCSI controllers, which were pretty much the norm everywhere. This jumped up to 256 then 512, then 1G caches.  Generally now, for x86/x64 architecture, like most companies, we use VMs running on blades, with SAN as storage, so all caching done at SAN end.
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Leomas on 17 May 2008, 20:00:16
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
I know your pain...I have a couple of flat panel monitors that no-one wants and I can't be bothered to be scammed on eBay with them

How big?  :)

17" @1024*768 and 17" '1280*1024  nothing dramatic but fine for second systems or servers

Wouldn't imagine that they are worth shipping to Germany though :)
How much?


Free to collector
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Martin_1962 on 17 May 2008, 20:28:35
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
We ran the same server for nearly 10 years until the original drive failed.

It had had 2 or 3 extra drives, 3 NOSes, 1 case and 3 CPUs and mother boards.

Last seen with one of the newer drives hosting a 4th NOS.

Run out of space - put in extra drive and merge it in, go a bit slow new MB processor - started as 3.11 ended up as 6.0 without original drive via 4.10 (I think) and 4.11 SP4
Except Netware was pretty rubbish at multiprocessor stuff until v5. Actually, didn't really get to grips with it until v6's Linux kernel.

Went well enough as a single processor - ours started as a 386!

Run 486 for a few years then a pentium of some form.

Back in the NW4.11 era multiprocessor was no big deal the server would handle more throughput than an NT box anyway - seen the tests ran by a supplier. Near enough twice the disk performance - about 4x total throughput for same hardware.

Tests were published - Extended Systems did them
I suspect a biased test.  Remember I used to look after around 300 Netware (4.11 mostly) servers, and maybe 200 odd Windows (NT3.51/NT4) servers.  Depending on users/application, mostly Compaq Prosignia 300 (small stuff) and Compaq Proliant 4500 (larger stuff) type stuff.

To be honest, not much between NW411 and NT3.5/4 performance wise.  Netware lost a bucket load of performance between V3 and V4, yet the only real change was moving from Bindery to NDS.  If you needed to use TCP/IP across your WAN routers, Netware's performance died even further, as your choices were IP Tunnels or the utterly awful NetWareIP.

Don't get me wrong, Netware was a decent NOS, esp with NDS.  But Windows servers made as good file/print servers, and far better application servers. And more reliable to.



A supplier who produce NLMs and services found on a dual boot server that NT was about 1/4 the speed of Netware, they found the difference was mainly down to Netware disk handling being quicker.

I cannot find the test since they were bought by Sybase
NLM supplier - ie, trying to flog Netware stuff ;)

Either that, or set Windows up using FAT.  NTFS has always been more efficient than Netware's filesystem, though its irrelevent, as all servers should be offloading onto a dedicated controller anyway.  Back in the KnitWare 4.11 days, we were using either 16Mb (up to 12M battery backed) or 64Mb (56Mb battery backed) cached SCSI controllers, which were pretty much the norm everywhere. This jumped up to 256 then 512, then 1G caches.  Generally now, for x86/x64 architecture, like most companies, we use VMs running on blades, with SAN as storage, so all caching done at SAN end.

Dual boot is the clue, as was the fact I mentioned services.

It was part of their FAQ to answer performance issues for cross graders.

They now do Linux as well but they did a database server before Microsoft did a NOS, so of course they started on Netware.

Our customers who have cross graded from recent Netware to new Windows have seen a performance drop but were expecting it. In all circumstances it came down to one thing - support.
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Gaffers on 17 May 2008, 22:42:53
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
I know your pain...I have a couple of flat panel monitors that no-one wants and I can't be bothered to be scammed on eBay with them

How big?  :)

17" @1024*768 and 17" '1280*1024  nothing dramatic but fine for second systems or servers

Wouldn't imagine that they are worth shipping to Germany though :)
How much?

But if you send to my BFPO address it is the same price as shipping in the UK  ;)
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: TheBoy on 18 May 2008, 21:34:54
Quote
Our customers who have cross graded from recent Netware to new Windows have seen a performance drop but were expecting it. In all circumstances it came down to one thing - support.
They need to change DB vendor then, to one who knows how to optimise Windows server apps ;)
Title: Re: computer stuff
Post by: Martin_1962 on 18 May 2008, 22:13:27
Quote
Quote
Our customers who have cross graded from recent Netware to new Windows have seen a performance drop but were expecting it. In all circumstances it came down to one thing - support.
They need to change DB vendor then, to one who knows how to optimise Windows server apps ;)


Thing is they do - their company got bought by Sybase for their knowleage. And independant tests were finding rather high performance compared to other database servers.

Oh as to choice - for the XBASE world it is the choice