Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Mr.OmegaMan on 14 June 2013, 14:37:27
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Changed passenger side track rod end recently and after that the steering wheel has been out of centre, So before i buy x2 new front tyres i'm planning on getting the front tracking done at a local ATS garage.
Anyone know which one of these i need to ask for ?
http://shop.atseuromaster.co.uk/car-products-services/tyre-services
Thanks
:)
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Tracking is useless on the Omega, you need full Gemotry! Personally I'd avoid ATS and take it to a proper specialist :y
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Tracking is useless on the Omega, you need full Gemotry! Personally I'd avoid ATS and take it to a proper specialist :y
It drives fine its just after replacing the track rod the steering wheel is out of line. Doubt there's any specialists around here maybe one or 2 largish tyre garages whom may do that :-\.
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Where in Wales are you? ::)
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Tracking is useless on the Omega, you need full Gemotry! Personally I'd avoid ATS and take it to a proper specialist :y
Not for a TRE change.
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Tracking is useless on the Omega, you need full Gemotry! Personally I'd avoid ATS and take it to a proper specialist :y
Not for a TRE change.
Thought as much.
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Tracking is useless on the Omega, you need full Gemotry! Personally I'd avoid ATS and take it to a proper specialist :y
Not for a TRE change.
Thought as much.
This "full geo" check for anything steering related seems to be the norm on here ::).
Replaced plenty of steering components and never had a geo check and never suffered from uneven tyre wear ???
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Tracking is useless on the Omega, you need full Gemotry! Personally I'd avoid ATS and take it to a proper specialist :y
Not for a TRE change.
Thought as much.
This "full geo" check for anything steering related seems to be the norm on here ::)
Aye
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Where in Wales are you? ::)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43954633/bangshead.gif)
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Which option would you say i need from that ATS link.
Computerised Wheel Alignment: Front Axle £41.99
or
Wheel Alignment £31.99
Might just use their free check and take it from there.
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Where in Wales are you? ::)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43954633/bangshead.gif)
North.
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Tracking is useless on the Omega, you need full Gemotry! Personally I'd avoid ATS and take it to a proper specialist :y
Not for a TRE change.
Thought as much.
This "full geo" check for anything steering related seems to be the norm on here ::).
Replaced plenty of steering components and never had a geo check and never suffered from uneven tyre wear ???
Paranoia maybe ::) never done a geo check on any car i've had just the odd tracking, balancing of wheels etc.
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Potentially, if the geometry is off, new tyres can be scrapped in less than 1000 miles :-\
Hence the suggestion to get it done. Jimbob and Elite Pete use a place in Chester to good effect :y
Still, not my car ::)
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Standard tracking will do as said car is driving fine and plus its wearing tyres evenly all i want is to get the steering wheel centred.
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IF it was all OK before the TRE was changed, then only the tracking needs adjusting.
However, I'd probably take it to a place that does full geometry but only charge per adjustment. That way, everything will be measured and if the camber is excessive, you can ask them to adjust that too. ;)
I think my local place charge about £15 per adjustment.
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Also bear in mind that if the thrust angle is out (full geometry required to measure this), setting the tracking won't necessarily centre the wheel.
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Which option would you say i need from that ATS link.
Computerised Wheel Alignment: Front Axle £41.99
or
Wheel Alignment £31.99
Might just use their free check and take it from there.
Thanks for the advice guys...
But For now I'll be just arranging tracking maybe geo later down the road if things don't improve.
Back to my original question.
For Standard tracking do i really need the £41.99 option or the £31.99 option.
here's the link to the options availabe at ATS.
http://shop.atseuromaster.co.uk/car-products-services/tyre-services
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Another thing should i do the tracking with the new tyres on or get the tracking done with the old tyres.
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King expensive either way :-\ might as well spend another £30 and get it set up properly...
...then put the new tyres on :y
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King expensive either way :-\ might as well spend another £30 and get it set up properly...
...then put the new tyres on :y
There is a chap in a small garage probably charge around 10 squid but with equipment most probably used on Austins, morris minors etc ;D
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By 4 wheel alignment you mean something like this.
http://shop.atseuromaster.co.uk/car-products-services/tyre-services/computer-align-front-&-rear/284321
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how is camber adjusted on these?
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A Kevin suggested, when I took mine for full geo tune up, they only adjusted the front at WIM. So only charged me for the front. Given its £400+ for a set of boots, a geo tune up means tyres lasting 30k rather than 5k ;)
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how is camber adjusted on these?
Bolts at lower end of front shock
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90652.0
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how is camber adjusted on these?
Webby did you mean how is camber adjusted on the ATS 4 wheel alinement system :-\
if so . . .it's probably not . . .just front & rear wheel alinement i would think :-\ :-\ :-\
60 odd quid as well . . . :o :o :o
May as well have the full set up for a bit more cost at WIM or a nearer local franchise IMO ;) ;)
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how is camber adjusted on these?
Webby did you mean how is camber adjusted on the ATS 4 wheel alinement system :-\
if so . . .it's probably not . . .just wheel alinement i would think :-\ :-\ :-\
60 odd quid as well . . . :o :o :o
May as well have the full set up for a bit more cost at WIM or a nearer local franchise IMO ;) ;)
Forgive me but what/who is/are WIM .. I come up with all sorts of results on google like this http://wim.co/ .. Somewhere near Anglesey would be needed otherwise i'll just have to use ATS or local garages :-\
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I wouldn't go anywhere near ATS at those prices!!! :o Find a decent independent tyre place.... ::)
I wonder if Mr Gixer knows about the 'Tyre Hotel' for storing his winter tyres? ::) ;D
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I wouldn't go anywhere near ATS at those prices!!! :o Find a decent independent tyre place.... ::)
I wonder if Mr Gixer knows about the 'Tyre Hotel' for storing his winter tyres? ::) ;D
I know of 1 some 20 miles away when the time comes i'll give them a call for a quote and ask what they do regarding this.
I will admit had a bad experience with ATS last year regarding Air-Con top up which after 2 checks they said it was fine then 24H later all the gas had leaked out. But the ATS i have in mind is a different branch and recently had the front wheels balanced there and the chap who did it worked at VX previously knew Omega's well. So hard to say.
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how is camber adjusted on these?
Webby did you mean how is camber adjusted on the ATS 4 wheel alinement system :-\
if so . . .it's probably not . . .just wheel alinement i would think :-\ :-\ :-\
60 odd quid as well . . . :o :o :o
May as well have the full set up for a bit more cost at WIM or a nearer local franchise IMO ;) ;)
Forgive me but what/who is/are WIM .. I come up with all sorts of results on google like this http://wim.co/ .. Somewhere near Anglesey would be needed otherwise i'll just have to use ATS or local garages :-\
sorry, just presumed you would have known of them :-[ :-[ Wheels in Motion, specialist alignment & steering geometry company . They have other franchises in other towns I think :-\
Edit: just checked their franchise map . .looks like ellesmere Port would be the nearest to you :o :o quite a way by the looks of it
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http://www.blackboots.co.uk/tyre-fitting-centres.php
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how is camber adjusted on these?
Webby did you mean how is camber adjusted on the ATS 4 wheel alinement system :-\
if so . . .it's probably not . . .just wheel alinement i would think :-\ :-\ :-\
60 odd quid as well . . . :o :o :o
May as well have the full set up for a bit more cost at WIM or a nearer local franchise IMO ;) ;)
Forgive me but what/who is/are WIM .. I come up with all sorts of results on google like this http://wim.co/ .. Somewhere near Anglesey would be needed otherwise i'll just have to use ATS or local garages :-\
sorry, just presumed you would have known of them :-[ :-[ Wheels in Motion, specialist alignment & steering geometry company . They have other franchises in other towns I think :-\
Thanks Al,
If Chesham is their only garage they wouldn't be an option for me that would work out at roughly 600miles there and back :o
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http://www.blackboots.co.uk/tyre-fitting-centres.php
Thanks Rob, But 210miles there and back roughly :-\
EDIT: Just checked how much they charge anyway. £114.00 :o
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There is no need for full geo simply because of a tre change.
There is also a guide on setting toe by eye on here ::) why we bother with the guides I'm not sure, but the steering wheel is your best guide. Obviously yours is out :y
If you change one tre, then adjust it to the guide, and then again so the steering is straight. Then do the other tre, repeating the process, you can get the toe setting pretty much cock on after changing tre's on both sides. But it takes a lot of patience and repeating a very awkward process, especially if the adjusters are stiff. (Which they won't be if changing the whole tre for new, but will be stiff if just changing the outer end ball joint only, for example)
So for the op, if one side has not been touched, you can adjust the new one until the steering is straight again. Or at least back where it was.
......However, I would never suggest driving an omega long term after steering or suspension work without checking the relevant settings are actually correct.
Also... its worth getting an omega set up once a year. So if yours hasn't been done for a while, and given it needs a setting checked, as Kev says, you may as well get the whole set up looked at at least, while your at it.
Wim do charge per set up. Where as Micheldever group charge by each setting, with no cost just to measure. This would suit your purposes better,again, as Kev says.
Wim do a much better job than the other Micheldever group franchises, such as pro tyre in Slough. But then Wim's charging may or may not suit your needs. You pays your money....
Hth
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Thanks Chris ;)
Don't think i'll try and do it myself.
The TRE wasn't a new replacement but a good used genuine one from OSP no play at all good rubber no cracks etc. and being used and from an Omega it's not far off what it should be. Passenger front it was had to change it after the idler went it must have knackered the tre.
Anyways what i'll probably do for now is give a few larger tyre garages a call see what they can offer and their prices and if their cheaper than ATS give them a go for tracking but if they do a geo setup might give that a go, I'll update on the prices I get when I call them will probably be sometime next week now..
Planning on getting the tyres from blackcircles unless I can make a deal with one of these tyre garages for the whole lot tyres, balancing, tracking or geo.
Thanks all :)
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Fair enough, they are a Pita to adjust if even remotely stiff.
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Wheels In Motion, based in Chesham, with approved outlets all around the Uk. All on their website. Have a look and then ring them. If they can't recommend a place in North Wales, noone can :-\
Their Head Office charge OOF members £65, believe the regular price is £90.
Nigel Langs in Bolton, not sooo far away, (as used by Jimbob etc), have a good reputation but not sure on cost.
As someone who has had tyres destroyed in less than a week by poor set ups, I can only recommend getting the job done once and done properly :y
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:y
http://m.blackcircles.com/mt/www.blackcircles.com/catalogue/kumho/ku39/235/45/R17/Y/97/f?returnurl=%2forder%2ftyres%3f&tyre=27167118
Planning to go for Khumo 235/45/17 from blackcircles if I get them from there. ::) I think tunnie gave these positive results.
Will update next week on this tracking business ..
:)
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Wheels In Motion, based in Chesham, with approved outlets all around the Uk. All on their website. Have a look and then ring them. If they can't recommend a place in North Wales, noone can :-\
Their Head Office charge OOF members £65, believe the regular price is £90.
Nigel Langs in Bolton, not sooo far away, (as used by Jimbob etc), have a good reputation but not sure on cost.
As someone who has had tyres destroyed in less than a week by poor set ups, I can only recommend getting the job done once and done properly :y
must be worth a phone call to ask of their nearest recommended outlet.
If you have no knowledge of the car ever having a full geometry set up, i think general opinion on this forum would be to have it done .
But of course i agree with others that just for a TRE change full geo is not needed. :y
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Hi omegaman2.2. I have long suffered wheel not centred after changing track rod ends. I used to adjust toe-in with a home made adjustable length rod but this was not satisfactory. I then found a better way, which has the advantage that it also centres the steering wheel on straight ahead setting. Here it is.
0. Get a long straight plank, as long as the car.
1. Ensure both track rods adjust easily. You may need to take them off the car to do this.
2. Jack front of car up, then place axle stands plus wooden blocks under the ends of the wishbones, lower the front of the car so that is it supported by the axle stands and the front suspension is normally loaded.
3. Set the steering wheel straight.
4. Support a long straight plank so that it touched the rear wheel and front wheels on one side. Adjust that side track rod until it touches both tyres on both sides. Repeat other side of car.
5. Clamp track rod adjusters. Check with plank. When all OK, jack car up, remove axle stands, lower.
6. Take for test drive. Have cuppa. Tell wife how clever you are.
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Noooo.... :o
They single key component in the steering geometry is the pitman arm that connects the steering box to the steering arm.
The steering has variable assistance, which drops away to almost nothing around the straight ahead position.
It is essential that both the idler and pitman arm are parallel to the chassis rails. Any deviation will result in the steering assistance becoming unpredictable and potentially dangerous.
Also rear track rod length has a significant impact on the steering axis, hence the importance of ensuring that the car is correctly set up.
Also, whilst the plank method is a reasonable one in theory, it only works if the front and rear tracks are the same.
They aren't.
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Don't use the place in Ellesmere Port. They should have been removed from the map. Their main business is part worn tyres....
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Terry, re no. 2
The way that reads suggests;
Loading the wishbone in a dangerous way that could easily result in damage...? Ie bent wishbone. It's not designed to take vertical load.
How can the end of the wishbone be supported if the wheel is fitted?
Or have I read that wrongly?
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I support the wishbone with an axle stand with a block of top, placed as near the wheel as possible.
I thought the tracks were the same front and back, but if they are not the difference will be trivial compared with the distance front to back.
This is how I used to do it on my motorcycle.
I used to try to adjust new track rods the same length as the old. It did not work. It is extremely critical. The steering is twitchy if is out by half a turn. Adjusting the wheels on the ground does not work because the tyres flex. Doing it jacked up with the suspension hanging down is hopeless. The way I do it works first time, steering is not twitchy, and the steering wheel is central.
I know the power steering is self centring. I presume that unless the steering wheel has been removed and replaced incorrectly with the wheel centred the power steering is also centred.
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Only if the pitman arm and idler are perfectly square :y
Over time/mileage the box wears, requiring the wheel to be held slightly off centre to counter camber, even on seemingly level roads :-\
Predominantly, a RHD, UK registered Omega will have the wheel slightly of to the right, have had 4, all well over 100k and all the same...
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Having seen where the wishbones crumple in a side axle impact, I absolutely would NOT apply vertical pressure to the wishbones. Also, the leverage to compress the suspension to the correct ride height needs to be applied in the same position as the wheel, at the out lard end. The more inboard/nearer the wishbone bolts the axle stand is positioned the higher the suspension will sit. Therefor the front wheel position won't be on the same elevation as the rear so an error occurs, even if taken through the centre line of the hub to negate any possible positive camber, as the wheel drops in suspension travel, the top of the wheel leans out from the vertical, so the bottom must lean inboard of the normal ride height position.... always measure and set up at the correct ride height.
Having said that, it's not a ad attempt to be honest. Best available at the time. :y
But the the rest of your post is pretty much as the theory behind the guide. :y
Although the method described does assume a new track rod, or one that's very easy to adjust while laying by the side of the car and reaching under to the tre adjusters.
The tyres gripping the road is over come by driving back and forth in between each adjustment by 6 feet or so to let the wheel find its correct track. But the driver must keep the wheel at 12 o clock.
I think you will agree, there comes a point where you've got to get it measured and set correctly. After all, it could quite easily have too much toe dialled in on both sides and still drive straight with a straight steering wheel. Only to find that the outside edge of both tyres has been wiped off in under 5k miles.
As you say they are quite critical. A quarter turm can see a difference between a combined correct figure of -10minutes(5mins each side) and 10mins each side(-20combibed) a figure that will destroy tyres in 5k no problem at all. By which time it's way too late.
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Sorry chaps, I have not mastered the quote and editing system
Hi Ex Taxi Al, the pitman arm and the idler arm are two sides of a parallelogram, the other two being the central steering rod and and the chassis. So they should jolly well be parallel.
Hi Chris, obviously the support must be under the wheel end so that the spring bears the load. I think I achieve that the way I support the wishbone.
I did say, you must free both track rods at the outset.
To have the geometry reset at Chesham, I should have to fit new two wishbones, replace or free both front and rear track rods, and the idler arm. Then Chesham man would have to measure and reset front toe in, rear toe in, camber angles both sides and king pin inclinations both sides. I should want to watch him do it, not just accept his computer print out. I have had tyre shops do similar tasks in the past, and all they do is place the front wheels on greased pads, find a track rod that will turn a bit, reset the toe-in and call it a day.
This thread began with OmegaMan2.2 enquiring how he could get his steering wheel straight when the car was going in a straight line. I have told him.
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imo and what I've experienced at school...
there isn't a place on the suspension you cant jack up on. not saying its technically right, but I have seen all sorts done by the kids there ::) and no breakages.
having said that, on my own car/customers car i personally wouldn't just in case
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which reminds me...
out of curiosity has anyone ever seen a problem when jacking up a rear diff?
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which reminds me...
out of curiosity has anyone ever seen a problem when jacking up a rear diff?
You mean jacking the entire car up on the diff? Not something i'd do, think there are better places :y
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which reminds me...
out of curiosity has anyone ever seen a problem when jacking up a rear diff?
You mean jacking the entire car up on the diff? Not something i'd do, think there are better places :y
Yeah jacking the entire car up. Watching lots of videos and having done it myself I haven't encountered a problem. Just wondered if there was any actual evidence of someone jacking up on the diff and having it cave in or something lol ;)
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Sorry chaps, I have not mastered the quote and editing system
Hi Ex Taxi Al, the pitman arm and the idler arm are two sides of a parallelogram, the other two being the central steering rod and and the chassis. So they should jolly well be parallel.
They need to be parallel to the chassis rails. Nothing else. If the pitman arm is not parallel to the offside rail, then the box is not centred.
WIM at Chesham start by measuring, then they set the REAR geometry to ensure the correct thrust angle. Then and only then do they start the front end, which can include tweaking the subframe.
And as for jacking the Omega up by the diff, you need 6" more lift than you think you do, as it goes a looong way before it reaches the floor, by which time the diff mounts are fubar :'(
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Sorry chaps, I have not mastered the quote and editing system
Hi Ex Taxi Al, the pitman arm and the idler arm are two sides of a parallelogram, the other two being the central steering rod and and the chassis. So they should jolly well be parallel.
Hi Chris, obviously the support must be under the wheel end so that the spring bears the load. I think I achieve that the way I support the wishbone.
I did say, you must free both track rods at the outset.
To have the geometry reset at Chesham, I should have to fit new two wishbones, replace or free both front and rear track rods, and the idler arm. Then Chesham man would have to measure and reset front toe in, rear toe in, camber angles both sides and king pin inclinations both sides. I should want to watch him do it, not just accept his computer print out. I have had tyre shops do similar tasks in the past, and all they do is place the front wheels on greased pads, find a track rod that will turn a bit, reset the toe-in and call it a day.
This thread began with OmegaMan2.2 enquiring how he could get his steering wheel straight when the car was going in a straight line. I have told him.
But there is no explanation how to jack on the wheel end so the springs are loaded, with the wheel fitted?
Webby, don't jack on the did on an omega. It will separate the rear dif bushes/subframe to body. They are a cup/horse shoe shape, basically, jacking the dif will lift the rubber out of the cup.
Other models may differ. (Haha, differ ;D )
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Sorry chaps, I have not mastered the quote and editing system
Hi Ex Taxi Al, the pitman arm and the idler arm are two sides of a parallelogram, the other two being the central steering rod and and the chassis. So they should jolly well be parallel.
Hi Chris, obviously the support must be under the wheel end so that the spring bears the load. I think I achieve that the way I support the wishbone.
I did say, you must free both track rods at the outset.
To have the geometry reset at Chesham, I should have to fit new two wishbones, replace or free both front and rear track rods, and the idler arm. Then Chesham man would have to measure and reset front toe in, rear toe in, camber angles both sides and king pin inclinations both sides. I should want to watch him do it, not just accept his computer print out. I have had tyre shops do similar tasks in the past, and all they do is place the front wheels on greased pads, find a track rod that will turn a bit, reset the toe-in and call it a day.
This thread began with OmegaMan2.2 enquiring how he could get his steering wheel straight when the car was going in a straight line. I have told him.
But there is no explanation how to jack on the wheel end so the springs are loaded, with the wheel fitted?
Webby, don't jack on the did on an omega. It will separate the rear dif bushes/subframe to body. They are a cup/horse shoe shape, basically, jacking the dif will lift the rubber out of the cup.
Other models may differ. (Haha, differ ;D )
:y :y :y
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Hi Chris,
don't quite understand the question, but I simply jacked up each side in turn, trolley jack plus wood block under the front side jacking point, then lowered it gently on to axle stand plus wood block under wheel end of wishbone. Takes less time to do than describe.
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The issue is that the outer end of the wishbone isn't designed to take a vertical load. Its sole purposeis to locate the wheel laterally :y
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Let's not have a row about it, but the purpose of the wishbone is to locate the bottom ball joint laterally and fore and aft. Other cars I have had (Minis, Morris 1100s) had separate suspension items to bear those forces. The Mcpherson strut bears the vertical load. The forces on the wishbone are large under braking and when cornering. The wishbone is a strong assembly of pressed steel components, and will come to no harm supported as I described.
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The new "tyre debate thread" is now the tracking for the tyres ::)
I appreciate all the replies.
Will update next week what I decide to do.
:)
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Let's not have a row about it, but the purpose of the wishbone is to locate the bottom ball joint laterally and fore and aft. Other cars I have had (Minis, Morris 1100s) had separate suspension items to bear those forces. The Mcpherson strut bears the vertical load. The forces on the wishbone are large under braking and when cornering. The wishbone is a strong assembly of pressed steel components, and will come to no harm supported as I described.
It also bends quite easily, in a vertical direction just outboard of the bolts, when pushed into a kerb by a range rover. Var clobbered a kerb effectively. So, given that its not possible to place a stand on the ball joint end while the road wheel is fitted, the stand will have to be placed inboard of the ball joint! Nearer the crumple zone of the wishbone, and away from the strut.
So there's a real danger of bending the arm, and incorrect ride height when measuring/setting. If I understand your post correctly...?
Please advise, because if there's an easier way of setting the toe, i'm all ears. :y
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The reason I would still recommend a full geo check in this scenario is that the car most likely hasn't had one for a while (if ever).
At 10+ years old, everything would have fallen out, though the big killer for Omegas is the way the front camber falls out of (even GMs piss poor) spec, though other stuff will be out as well.
If the rear is out, everything is out. 4 wheel alignment/laser alignment and just guff does not set the rear, only use it as a reference point for the front... ...so if the rear is out, they will bugger up the front by adjusting it.
After years of suffering chronic tyre wear and pulls on my first Omega (the Silver Bullet), it now gets an annual WIM check, along with every subsequent Omega I've had. Other cars I've had I tend to only get WIM'd once, as they don't appear to fall out of adjustment like the Omega does.
I would also add, the Silver Bullet, despite its 204k, is one of the straightest, sure footed cars I've ever driven (shame I'm struggling to get TBE to the same level, but its getting there), followed 2nd by Tractor, which also had regular WIM visits.
There are DIY ways of getting it close, if its only one setting you've disturbed, and the car's geo was bang on before (only known if you have recently had it checked), but they are very fiddly. I believe they are more for getting it "near enough" so as to be drivable, and not wreck the rubber, until you can get it done properly.
For an Omega, I would always class any form of tracking/4wheel alignment as a waste of money, as its the wrong service for what the car needs.
As to 2nd hand TREs. *sigh*. They are only £20ish from GM. The GM ones are by far the most durable. I think the trash that Autovaux sell as genuine GM (and clearly aren't, the lying 'tards) are probably the worse I've seen, not lasting the warranty period. 2nd hand is just a tad daft IMHO.
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Supporting the weight of the car on the wishbone, the only place I'd say thats possible it right under the balljoint (so wheels off). The wishbone is not designed to withstand the forces exerted in that direction if you support anywhere else.
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So there's a real danger of bending the arm, and incorrect ride height when measuring/setting. If I understand your post correctly...?
I did not say that.
If you think my method dangerous and ineffective, I should not use it.
When you next change a wishbone, you might jack up the wheel and pop an axle stand under it, wheel end, without wood block, and see it it bends.
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They flex when you fit them ::)
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And they bend/flex if you grab hold of them by hand from underneath. Try it. :)
But I am still interested how to place the stand on the ball joint end while the wheel is fitted....?
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Been following this thread ...
But I am still interested how to place the stand on the ball joint end while the wheel is fitted....?
... me too ... ???
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...because the outboard 3rd of the wishbone is within the wheel. So given the triangular base of a stand it looks like placing the stand further outboard than the small hole nearest the wheel in the pic, might be tricky...?
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/e25837bf695d341b323d3ca4cd23cf7e_zps429190be.jpg)
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Supporting the weight of the car on the wishbone, the only place I'd say thats possible it right under the balljoint (so wheels off). The wishbone is not designed to withstand the forces exerted in that direction if you support anywhere else.
The balljoint isn't intended to take the weight of the car so I would question whether even that is acceptable.
As for supporting the weight of the car mid wishbone there were some well publicised cases of wishbones collapsing in chavaliers a few years ago that were blamed on that practice. I can't see the Omega faring any better.
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Also, given fragility of the rearward wishbone bush, a stand onto the wishbone is bound to lift the metal work away from the rubber.
The front bush may take it slightly better but the rearward bush will suffer. Asking for trouble.
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Please advise how I attach a photograph
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Host the pic on photobucket or similar, then post the direct link :y
If you click the quote button on the picture post you'll see the code.
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I am struggling. I am not into photobucket. I right clicked the quote by your last photo and got enticing invitations, but I am still not able to post photos. Further help needed! Wife is out, she may know.
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http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=53182.0
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https://www.dropbox.com/home/omega
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https://photos-3.dropbox.com/t/0/AAANf17lECgTm87W2OoUCPLQgSAXFOJsLHy3AazSZF3IUA/12/130003580/jpeg/32x32/3/_/1/2/DSCF1867.jpg/tlorp8jd9cQ5o4u4LbxkUVOG0MLFZeuClYF_o7ENB5g?size=800x600
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Please click on above posts for picture of wishbone on axle stand
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None of your pic links work mate ::)
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If you're in North Wales there are several Vauxhall main agents not too far - Wrexham, Oswestry, Shrewsbury (Greenhous are good), Telford. The one in Chester (and Ellesmere Port) is Lookers - they charge Chester/Cheshire prices and my daughter has had poor service from them in the past, however, they sourced my Omega for me at a better price than any of the others. Hope that that helps.
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If you're in North Wales there are several Vauxhall main agents not too far - Wrexham, Oswestry, Shrewsbury (Greenhous are good), Telford. The one in Chester (and Ellesmere Port) is Lookers - they charge Chester/Cheshire prices and my daughter has had poor service from them in the past, however, they sourced my Omega for me at a better price than any of the others. Hope that that helps.
?? ??? Certainly wouldn't trust a Vx main dealer with suspension geo ::) ::)
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Really? How would you go about finding a decent garage to do it then? Thanks
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https://photos-3.dropbox.com/t/0/AAANf17lECgTm87W2OoUCPLQgSAXFOJsLHy3AazSZF3IUA/12/130003580/jpeg/32x32/3/_/1/2/DSCF1867.jpg
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Really? How would you go about finding a decent garage to do it then? Thanks
Look through posts on here - OOf recomend WIM - altho I've used others that have access to correct equipment. Most Vx dealers don't ;)
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https://photos-3.dropbox.com/t/0/AAANf17lECgTm87W2OoUCPLQgSAXFOJsLHy3AazSZF3IUA/12/130003580/jpeg/32x32/3/_/1/2/DSCF1867.jpg
Link still not working mate ::)
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(https://photos-3.dropbox.com/t/0/AAANf17lECgTm87W2OoUCPLQgSAXFOJsLHy3AazSZF3IUA/12/130003580/jpeg/32x32/3/_/1/2/DSCF1867.jpg/tlorp8jd9cQ5o4u4LbxkUVOG0MLFZeuClYF_o7ENB5g?size=800x600)
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2nd hand TREs. *sigh*. 2nd hand is just a tad daft IMHO.
Still better off getting good used genuine ones over pattern ::)
Got it from OSP "Omega Spare Parts" the whole thing about £20 delivered, VX around £60.
.............
Been for a run today car drives fine even with the steering wheel out of line slightly. Will most likely use front tracking alignment services locally at a tyre place or ATS.
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Please click on above posts for picture of wishbone on axle stand
You need to make these pictures public so anyone can open them.
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https://photos-3.dropbox.com/t/0/AAANf17lECgTm87W2OoUCPLQgSAXFOJsLHy3AazSZF3IUA/12/130003580/jpeg/32x32/3/_/1/2/DSCF1867.jpg
You need the public facing ones ;)
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2nd hand TREs. *sigh*. 2nd hand is just a tad daft IMHO.
Still better off getting good used genuine ones over pattern ::)
Got it from OSP "Omega Spare Parts" the whole thing about £20 delivered, VX around £60.
.............
Been for a run today car drives fine even with the steering wheel out of line slightly. Will most likely use front tracking alignment services locally at a tyre place or ATS.
*sigh*.
You can lead the horse to water...
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2nd hand TREs. *sigh*. 2nd hand is just a tad daft IMHO.
Still better off getting good used genuine ones over pattern ::)
Got it from OSP "Omega Spare Parts" the whole thing about £20 delivered, VX around £60.
.............
Been for a run today car drives fine even with the steering wheel out of line slightly. Will most likely use front tracking alignment services locally at a tyre place or ATS.
*sigh*.
You can lead the horse to water...
Water puddles are far and few between around here. *Sigh* ;D
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https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f6kx9dg8ujqxp7t/jjxhb6lONv
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Hi, Above worked when posted to wife
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That will definitely be forcing the balljoint in a way it's not designed or tested for :-\
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https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f6kx9dg8ujqxp7t/jjxhb6lONv
That works :y
(I still wouldn't support my car by the wishbones though)
(https://photos-1.dropbox.com/t/0/AADbjKJWmvdEb_MUZ0cxxNGGWYX_WxOhIrimYtgmasuZOA/12/130003580/jpeg/32x32/3/1371416400/0/2/DSCF1867.jpg/tlorp8jd9cQ5o4u4LbxkUVOG0MLFZeuClYF_o7ENB5g?size=1024x768)
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i would'nt bother with the wood ;D :y
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Not as bad as I imagined, but IMO don't jack on the wb. Not worth the risk.
I wonder how the ride height compares with car on the ground, any measurement taken? Wheel to top of wheel arch?
I'd expect it to ride higher...?
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and ive lost count of the vehicles ive jacked up on the diff without repercussions,including my mig ;D :y
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and ive lost count of the vehicles ive jacked up on the diff without repercussions,including my mig ;D :y
That you've noticed. ;)
Where's that pic of TB's dif bushes....
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and ive lost count of the vehicles ive jacked up on the diff without repercussions,including my mig ;D :y
That you've noticed. ;)
Where's that pic of TB's dif bushes....
true :y
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These are TuBys sub frame to body bushes, they sit directly behind the dif, and are the ones that are unbolted to drop the subframe to change the springs.
The top one is completely separated, bar a strand of rubber. The centre alloy bit that's come out, is bolted to the subrafame which is then bolted to the dif.
If the car is raised by jacking on the dif, the entire weight of the car is acting to pull the alloy block away from the cup/u shaped bracket, and rip the rubber apart.
These had done 170k miles and gave a "loose rear end feal" iirc. They have not been forced apart by jacking on the dif to raise the car in this instance, as it was noticed some time before that the slloy had gone furry and oxidised, this had eaten into the rubber to alloy bond and they had separated.
Jacking on the dif will apply forces that want to lift these out of the cup. ;)
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/45d257f7.jpg)
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Here's that pic -
(http://dl.dropbox.com/sh/f6kx9dg8ujqxp7t/4Gb7UpVu--/DSCF1867.jpg)
:y
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And those discs have had it btw. :(
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And those discs have had it btw. :(
Yup exactly like MotherT's fine in outside I bet, and top edge inside, but feked at the bottom.
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And those discs have had it btw. :(
They all seem to go like that, no idea why...
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These had done 170k miles and gave a "loose rear end feal" iirc.
Tight as a duck's backside now, but I reckon replacing those and the poly doughnuts have trashed what I can get out of rear tyres. Then again, RT's were never gong to be durable :'(
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And those discs have had it btw. :(
They all seem to go like that, no idea why...
Iirc, I reckoned the splash guard is short at the bottom. :-\
And you rekoned the caliper twists away under heavy breaking...? :-\
If the rust eats in from the edge, as it looked on mine...why not both sides?
...in both cases, why doesn't it do it on both sides..? The splash guard would get the edge wet of both faces, although the face is slightly exposed inboard.
If the caliper twists, then the inside radiuos of the outboard face would suffer too.
Dunno either. :-\
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These had done 170k miles and gave a "loose rear end feal" iirc.
Tight as a duck's backside now, but I reckon replacing those and the poly doughnuts have trashed what I can get out of rear tyres. Then again, RT's were never gong to be durable :'(
So you suspect less miles from the rears...?
Might well be, the rear has less opportunity to articulate with poly rears. So gives a tighter turn in feel, less slop. But, the rears are not following the same radius as well as oe bushes. (Think four wheel steering, effectively. )
I must say though, the confidence on turn in is much improved. Especially on poor surfaces/worn Tarmac on higher speed corners :y
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Actually, I suspect the extra confidence is the problem there. ;D
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Splash guards might help retain moisture on the rear face of the disc by limiting airflow :-\
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And those discs have had it btw. :(
They all seem to go like that, no idea why...
Iirc, I reckoned the splash guard is short at the bottom. :-\
And you rekoned the caliper twists away under heavy breaking...? :-\
If the rust eats in from the edge, as it looked on mine...why not both sides?
...in both cases, why doesn't it do it on both sides..? The splash guard would get the edge wet of both faces, although the face is slightly exposed inboard.
If the caliper twists, then the inside radiuos of the outboard face would suffer too.
Dunno either. :-\
The insides may receive splash from the other wheel plus won't dry as quickly as the outside? Got an MOT warning on my two - 'rusted but not weakened'
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Actually, I suspect the extra confidence is the problem there. ;D
Some of the attempts in the MV6 inspire less confidence in the underpants arena, but I cannot shake the thing out of shape :y
Yes, I know, clearly not trying hard enough. But its reached the point my balls aren't big enough now :-[
Then I jump back in TBE. Oh dear......
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Not as bad as I imagined, but IMO don't jack on the wb. Not worth the risk.
I wonder how the ride height compares with car on the ground, any measurement taken? Wheel to top of wheel arch?
I'd expect it to ride higher...?
No measurements taken. I'd expect it to be a bit higher, but not much. Will measure next time I do it.
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That will definitely be forcing the balljoint in a way it's not designed or tested for :-\
True, but it's a ball joint, strong in every direction except ball out of socket direction.
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Be that as it may, it is another reason as to why jacking the car in that way is not good practice :y