Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Shackeng on 07 July 2013, 09:17:43
-
A report in the financial pages yesterday stated that GM are going to position the VX & Opel brands more upmarket, to allow Chevrolet to fit lower down. Perhaps a new Omega? :-\ :-\ :-\
-
I don't understand why the General doesn't want to compete with the German marques. They seem completely disinterested. Its like a self admission they aren't good enough.
Although there's obvious sense in being cheaper. But surely they want to pinch more sails of them than they are?
-
sails[/highlight] of them than they are?
Are GM going into yachting ::) ::)
-
Hmmm... Chevrolet US are getting the VF Commodore SS for $44k, (about £30k)... at that price here they might actually sell a few of them ::) Having said that, the Camaro starts at a measely $24k, (£16k in our money), and only $30k (£20k) for the convertible, which makes the Cascada look quite expensive :-\
Both the Spark and the Cruze retail in the States for pretty much the same money as here, so no reason at all for the premium prices that we pay for the more interesting cars :-\ Although we seem to be limited to the range toppers for things like the Camaro/VXR8, which limits market interest and availability which only pushes the price up...
If VW can justify producing what amounts to a global product line up, then I can't see why Chevrolet don't :-\ they, GM, would surely sell more cars overall if VX/Opel were positioned more like Buick in the States and supported by the complete Chevrolet range.
The lefthand drive argument holds very little water as approximately 25-30% of the global car market is righthand drive...
-
I don't understand why the General doesn't want to compete with the German marques. They seem completely disinterested. Its like a self admission they aren't good enough.
Its not what the market wants. So commercially impractical to develop. The exec saloon market wants BMW/Merc and to a lesser extend, Audi. Not anything with a Opel/Vauxhall badge.
Rover thried the slightly more upmarket route, reasonably successfully (due to a loyal following I suspect), but BMW overmilked it (some may say on purpose), so they are no more. I have absolutely zero doubt that Opel woul go the same way if they tried it.
-
why would GM want up market ? dont they own Cadillac?
-
why would GM want up market ? dont they own Cadillac?
And Buick...
-
why would GM want up market ? dont they own Cadillac?
And Buick...
Both have no real placement in the UK/Europe. It's Opel/Vx and Chevvy in here
-
No reason why Opel couldn't join Buick and Cadillac as niche brands in Europe, with Chevrolet becoming the bread and butter money maker :-\
-
I don't understand why the General doesn't want to compete with the German marques. They seem completely disinterested. Its like a self admission they aren't good enough.
Its not what the market wants. So commercially impractical to develop. The exec saloon market wants BMW/Merc and to a lesser extend, Audi. Not anything with a Opel/Vauxhall badge.
Rover thried the slightly more upmarket route, reasonably successfully (due to a loyal following I suspect), but BMW overmilked it (some may say on purpose), so they are no more. I have absolutely zero doubt that Opel woul go the same way if they tried it.
That's down to image...and to an extent build quality IMO.
-
I can't see how using American brands here will help sales, little hatchbacks with a Chevvy badge on them look as fake as an orange girls tan! :o Chevvy to me says V8 Pickup! 8)
If GM wanted a quality brand in Europe they should have kept and developed Saab to compete with the German marques and then kept Vx/Opel firmly where it is to compete with Ford, Peugeot, Fiat etc :)
-
That's where GM have been quite clever...
When they cleared the decks, and shut down Pontiac and Oldsmobile, GM integrated the defunct Saab range, including a couple of smart SUVs into the Buick range, and relaunched it at the upper end of the middle class market firmly between Chevrolet and Cadillac.
If I might be so bold...
The future of General Motors.
Rebrand the entire Opel/VX range as Chevrolet, with the exception of the Insignia and Cascadia. These can be marketed as Buicks, (the Insignia platform is already sold as a couple of Buick variations). Can the Antara, (it's only a rebadged Chevrolet Captiva anyway).
Add the full Holden range to the Chevrolet brand, (only the Commodore is an all Aussie product, the rest being a mish mash of Chevrolet and Opel/VX models already).
Chevrolet also produce a wide range of commercial vehicles from pick ups to large vans, so bin the rebadged Renualt van program.
This would leave GM three distinct global brands...
Chevrolet would be the mainstream manufacturer of everything from city cars to large vans, all sold at the same price the world over.
Buick would be the slightly upmarket brand to compete within the executive market.
Cadillac would be the flagship brand.
The key to the whole plan being that every single model would be readily available across the globe at the same price, so a $12000 Chevrolet Spark would cost £8k here, €8.5k in europe and $Aus16k down south. Factories affected could switch to producing either units in regional demand or to take up any excess demand for other regions.
If you want to be fussy, you could consider swapping Buick for Opel, but be realistic, noone outside the UK would choose to buy a Vauxhall branded car, as it will mean nothing to them :'( The American Brands are synonymous with the American Dream, and recognised the world over. If we were to play word association and I said 'Chevvy', I pretty much guarantee that 95% of you would reply with a V8 related answer ::)
-
The American Brands are synonymous with the American Dream, and recognised the world over. If we were to play word association and I said 'Chevvy', I pretty much guarantee that 95% of you would reply with a V8 related answer ::)
I also think leaf springs and 1970's technology in general! That goes for all American brands... ::) ;)
-
Modern yanks are much more than either of those stereotypes ::) with the notable exception of the Ford Mustang ;D
-
The trouble with stereotypes is that they're hard to break.
So if we take Fiat for example, who's cars were renowned for disintegrating into a pile of dust within weeks. ::) How many Fiats do we see on Britain's roads these days? Not many..... Well a few more with the introduction of the Fiat 500 but.... :-\
-
1) there are a sizeable number of markets where giving anything an american brand name will be the kiss of death ....
2) your proposal completely ignores regional labour costs
-
sails[/highlight] of them than they are?
Are GM going into yachting ::) ::)
How can you get picky when you can't even highlight? Ya numpty! ;D
-
1) there are a sizeable number of markets where giving anything an american brand name will be the kiss of death ....
2) your proposal completely ignores regional labour costs
1. Perhaps...but do Ford or GM already have a share of those markets? Probably...
2. Not really... is it actually any cheaper/more expensive to produce a car in the US/Canada/UK/Brazil/Thailand once shipping of either materials/products is factored in?
-
err, yes.... labour costs are hugely different..
-
that's why everything is made in china these days.... ;)
-
that's why everything is made in china these days.... ;)
Almost everything...
Name one Chinese owned car manufacturer the successfully and viably exports cars overseas....
For the record, I have only seen one MG6 on the road :-X
-
that's why everything is made in china these days.... ;)
Almost everything...
Name one Chinese owned car manufacturer the successfully and viably exports cars overseas....
For the record, I have only seen one MG6 on the road :-X
bit like the shitty city rover then,rare and with good reason :-X
-
Another observation...
If producing cars elsewhere is sooo much cheaper, why do Toyota, Nissan and Honda manufacture many of their European models in Europe ::)
-
assorted punitive duty regulations brought in to protect the uncompetitive native car industry, meant it made sense to make locally.... also, shipping manufactured vehicles around the world is inefficient and costly , relative to shipping piles of bits.... then of course there's the sea salt , and extended delivery time on custom options.
one can only hope China never really gets to grips with car manufacture....
-
Another observation...
If producing cars elsewhere is sooo much cheaper, why do Toyota, Nissan and Honda manufacture many of their European models in Europe ::)
Import quotas.
-
assorted punitive duty regulations brought in to protect the uncompetitive native car industry, meant it made sense to make locally.... also, shipping manufactured vehicles around the world is inefficient and costly , relative to shipping piles of bits.... then of course there's the sea salt , and extended delivery time on custom options.
one can only hope China never really gets to grips with car manufacture....
So what would be so wrong with a totally free global market with several manufacturing groups? Namely GM, VAG, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar/Land Rover and Kia/Hyundai, all producing global ranges.
-
Because in Europe it would probably kill the French car industry because they produce overpriced poor quality shite.
Because in the U.S. ............Same thing. ;)
-
I see your point Al, as I've never understood why car manufacturers go through the costly process of developing different cars for different countries. :-\ After all we're all people at the end of the day with similar wants and needs, wherever we are from. Although there are niche markets such as the big pickup trucks in the US or the Australian Ute. ;)
You'd think it would make sense to produce one range of vehicles that are then sold globally, maybe with slight differences to meet local regulations and with a local brand.... :-\
-
assorted punitive duty regulations brought in to protect the uncompetitive native car industry, meant it made sense to make locally.... also, shipping manufactured vehicles around the world is inefficient and costly , relative to shipping piles of bits.... then of course there's the sea salt , and extended delivery time on custom options.
one can only hope China never really gets to grips with car manufacture....
They are already making inroads and are selling globally Google "Great Wall Motors", yes they sell in the UK and other European countries, There are also other Chinese manufacturers who are building a presence in the UK and Europe. So like the Koreans a few years ago, they are on their way.
Like Korea they will not match European manufacturers for quality, design or safety, they will be sold on price, but they will catch up. Their domestic market is huge which is where they earn their bread and butter, which will provide the R&D money.
It is inevitable that some European manufacturers will merge / disappear. The obvious casualties are Peugeot, Renault and Fiat as their cars are in no-mans land on price, design, street cred and reliability. GM Europe are also by no means secure.
Local tastes dictate that care are localised for particular markets. What tends to happen with their mass market models is that they are variations of a core floor / platform.
-
So like the Koreans a few years ago, they are on their way.
Like Korea they will not match European manufacturers for quality, design or safety, they will be sold on price, but they will catch up.
I think that there are some pretty decent cars coming out of Korea these days. I bought a Kia C'eed in the auctions to sell on last year and I really liked it, it went well, handled well and had a really good level of trim. :y
A friend was over from the States recently and had a Hyundai i40 and he was impressed, as was I, as he's a dyed in the wool VAG man!! ::)
If I was in the market for a new car I'd certainly consider Kia or Hyundai, especially with the massive warranties they offer. If Chinese manufacturers follow Korea's example they could be a force to contend with in future! :)
-
So like the Koreans a few years ago, they are on their way.
Like Korea they will not match European manufacturers for quality, design or safety, they will be sold on price, but they will catch up.
I think that there are some pretty decent cars coming out of Korea these days. I bought a Kia C'eed in the auctions to sell on last year and I really liked it, it went well, handled well and had a really good level of trim. :y
A friend was over from the States recently and had a Hyundai i40 and he was impressed, as was I, as he's a dyed in the wool VAG man!! ::)
If I was in the market for a new car I'd certainly consider Kia or Hyundai, especially with the massive warranties they offer. If Chinese manufacturers follow Korea's example they could be a force to contend with in future! :)
Korean cars have come a long way in the last few years,drove a Hyundai i20 diesel tother day and was well impressed with it :y