Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: chrisgixer on 19 August 2013, 23:07:46
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Ok ladies and gents.
Took the plunge on this a while back and sourced an LS1 v8 and a 4l60e, thanks to 2woody and Taxi Al. :y
The engine has been dyno'd at 375bhp, and the box was purchased as a spare for a serious sleeper twin turbo, that never destroyed its stock box, so was surplus to requirements.
At this stage though I'm still checking fit. The gear box is loosely bolted to the lump with no tc or flywheel. Its all got to be lifted in and out a few times no doubt, so won't be spending too much on other parts until things are finalised.
Also, there WILL be a steering rack fitted in place of the steering box. This is going to be the make or brake part of the project. To find out how feasible this is I need to get the engine and box in the right place first.
Pics to follow.
Please note.
This is a long thought out project I've been discussing with various members here for a while. The engine, box, and rack are the basis of what I want to do with my car. They are NOT up for discussion as to what should be fitted or not or why.
Please feel free to start your own thread elsewhere if you want to discuss what's best for you and your ideals.
I'm looking for input to help this along, I'm not interested in hear say, links from web sites to prove points based on random inexperienced ramblings, what bloke said down the pub, and general stiring bs.
Please take that elsewhere.
Ta :y
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Looking forward to this one Chris, as you well know ;) ;)
I'm actually a bit gutted the timing is such that I'm unlikely to play much, if any, part of making this work :'( :'(
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Here's the problem. Question is, how important structurally is the box section above the gear box valve body?
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/D2CDD62C-9250-4826-8BD5-90A070D0E3C2-10713-0000047C64E95213_zpsec51d3dc.jpg)
To help get the general geography, the pic is taken looking forward to the front of the car, with the camera almost under the drivers seat, looking at the tranmsition tunnel. The box section is where numerous holes are for captive nuts etc for the various gear boxes used on the omega.
As you can see, strictly speaking, the box doesn't fit. I was slightly worried it wouldn't as Autobild magazine mentioned there is a fit problem opel had to overcome to get the same box to fit in the chassis when they built the prototypes for the v8 omega project.
Aaaanyway, I need to make room for two areas. The right rear corner of the valve body shown. And the 4the gear lock up solenoid that fouls the heat shields and sound deadening material, and most likely, the drivers footwell metal work. This should be easy, as a big bat will likely give clearance there.
So, main question is, can I cut the box section away, above the bear box valve body? How structural is it?
Further pics to follow, of the engine bay.
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To add, the engine is resting on the sump astride the subframe at the front. The rear of the gear box needs to be raised to almost level with that box section shown to fit properly, going by some very basic measurements.
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Looking forward to this one Chris, as you well know ;) ;)
I'm actually a bit gutted the timing is such that I'm unlikely to play much, if any, part of making this work :'( :'(
Partly why I posted it now. Give you something to ponder on. Tbh I won't get much time to work on it for a good while. Given current commitments. ;)
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Engine bay. Head on. As said its not positioned correctly as its resting on the subframe. Hence the lean to the right.
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/14BFB433-AC9F-4A74-9EE4-A7CF5040636C-10713-0000047DBC37AD8C_zpscd704734.jpg)
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LD I'm sure there shall be some wiring supervision needed at some point ::)
Chris, with regards that box section, might it be prudent to wait until the gearbox mount arrives, as it might drop the back of the box enough to make valvebody clearance irrelevant :-\
Page 18 of the 'How to fit an LS into anything", might throw some light on that :y
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Engine bay drivers side.
Steering box removed. There's no way I'm entertaining this with a steering box, there simply isn't room enough. I know gm managed it with severely compromised headers, but that's not for me.
Al tried to get the box in there just to see how close it would be, there isn't room to slide it down the side, and there's no headers or plugs leads fitted yet.
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/ABD5B061-1295-462C-A280-0247D2B759F8-10713-0000047DCE9B5E94_zps7b35879f.jpg)
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Engine bay pas side.
Abs pump will be moved... Somewhere. :-\ ;D
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/4D7BD778-23B3-4197-B3AE-CD384B43B1E5-10713-0000047DC6D40464_zpseacc16e1.jpg)
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Side on, where the rad will be, finger marking the rad position as a reminder. Looks like there's a bit of room, bit their isn't much when you see where the rad brackets are.
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/5BE2AA9F-576C-4C1A-A8AC-81FC8D348C40-10713-0000047DDA485538_zps1477a6ff.jpg)
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Although the engine will be going rearward to give clearance for the sump to straddle the rack. And give the auto box linkage a chance of reaching, and also help the the exhaust exit by the looks.
Where weight distribution fits in with all that I'm not sure. :-\
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With regard to the autobox / box section issue - may I suggest you have a chat with Sassanach, he really knows his stuff when it comes to metalwork and I'm sure could fabricate anything you need.
General question, is this likely to be LPG'd at some point?
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The three large electrical plugs will need to be moved at some point as well probably :-\
With regards the headers, a 3" square piece of timber cut to the length of the head should give you an idea of clearance needed for the headers (based on the dimensions given for the ones I sent a link for which measure 2.5" from the head):y
There is some wriggle room to get the radiator/aircon condensor and fans further forward if required :y
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Subframe currently on the car will be removed once the engine position is finalised. 2woody has welded some new brackets and removed the old ones on another subframe. Rack mounts will be welded to that. The current suspension will be removed complete with hub assembly to have new calliper mount brackets made and bigger discs fitted.
There's no way the oe brakes will cope with this.
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As far as weight distribution goes, if the mounts sit roughly where a desmonds are, then it ought to be about the same :-\
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With regard to the autobox / box section issue - may I suggest you have a chat with Sassanach, he really knows his stuff when it comes to metalwork and I'm sure could fabricate anything you need.
General question, is this likely to be LPG'd at some point?
Most likely will be lpg'd.
As you may have seen me mention before, I'm a one car does all type of person. So I want it to be my daily driver, and be quick and comfy with loads of toys.
So lpg will be fitted eventually.
Good point re Sassanach. :y
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As far as weight distribution goes, if the mounts sit roughly where a desmonds are, then it ought to be about the same :-\
Its noticeable that the suspension has NOT sunk to anywhere near the 3.2's ride height. So that lump is much lighter, even though there's more fluids and hardware to be fitted yet.
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Given that the selector switch doesn't quite fit, it's about 10% smaller than what was fitted, it could be worth sourcing one from a Camaro, or similar, complete with the linkage.
The linkages have a reasonable amount of adjustment on them. Just need to bear in mind that alot of yanks have column shifts, which rules out some SUV parts.
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As far as weight distribution goes, if the mounts sit roughly where a desmonds are, then it ought to be about the same :-\
Its noticeable that the suspension has NOT sunk to anywhere near the 3.2's ride height. So that lump is much lighter, even though there's more fluids and hardware to be fitted yet.
Although the gearbox is heavier, it is also longer. So any extra weight there is a touch further back in the wheelbase. Also there is alot of stuff missing, maybe 30kgs or so :-\
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Looking hopeful, IMHO. I'm guessing that box section is only really there to provide strength for the transmission mountings, as I don't believe it runs the length of the car? Guessing, though, which isn't really good enough. I'm sure something as strong could be fabricated in a different shape if required.
How's it looking for routing a steering column around the engine to a rack?
From a weight distribution perspective, as far back as you can get it will almost certainly be best.
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From memory, the box section isn't needed. Obviously it'll be reasonably easy to knock up som new reinforcement if needed ;)
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Looking hopeful, IMHO. I'm guessing that box section is only really there to provide strength for the transmission mountings, as I don't believe it runs the length of the car? Guessing, though, which isn't really good enough. I'm sure something as strong could be fabricated in a different shape if required.
How's it looking for routing a steering column around the engine to a rack?
From a weight distribution perspective, as far back as you can get it will almost certainly be best.
I'm thinking along those lines re the box section tbh. The floor pan can be seen through the holes for the various captive nuts etc, so its just been welded on to give the mount holes.
Rack is from a Nissan Almera, not exactly exotic but its what the Rats boys fitted to there 1000bhp lexus v8 with t56 box. Although that had a custom fit bell housing so not sure how that will compare to the ls bell housing and bolt pattern. But first offerings look hopeful.
For and aft engine position looks to have a fair bit of play, until the rack and subframe crossmember interfaces with the sump and rear gearbox mounts to block. That will be the decider there. It easily has clearance for a rack, as it had with its original car, holden gts r8 iirc. which also has a rack. :y
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From memory, the box section isn't needed. Obviously it'll be reasonably easy to knock up som new reinforcement if needed ;)
There are several holes along it, presumably one each for four pot, V6 and Tdi, plus auto and manual versions of each engine :-\
Choose the holes closest and trim the rest... or, looking at the book I refered to earlier, remove the boxes, and bolt the mounting laterally through the chassis rails :-\
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Looks an interesting project Chris - all the best with it.
Are you Omega less whilst this project is ongoing - or do you have multiple cars available? As you said, it could be some time before its finished.
Thanks - Rob
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Looks an interesting project Chris - all the best with it.
Are you Omega less whilst this project is ongoing - or do you have multiple cars available? As you said, it could be some time before its finished.
Thanks - Rob
My Elite remains un molested. ;)
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From memory, the box section isn't needed. Obviously it'll be reasonably easy to knock up som new reinforcement if needed ;)
There are several holes along it, presumably one each for four pot, V6 and Tdi, plus auto and manual versions of each engine :-\
Choose the holes closest and trim the rest... or, looking at the book I refered to earlier, remove the boxes, and bolt the mounting laterally through the chassis rails :-\
Personal preference... Take the whole lot out and fit custom mount :y Then it can be put exactly where it's wanted!
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From memory, the box section isn't needed. Obviously it'll be reasonably easy to knock up som new reinforcement if needed ;)
There are several holes along it, presumably one each for four pot, V6 and Tdi, plus auto and manual versions of each engine :-\
Choose the holes closest and trim the rest... or, looking at the book I refered to earlier, remove the boxes, and bolt the mounting laterally through the chassis rails :-\
Personal preference... Take the whole lot out and fit custom mount :y Then it can be put exactly where it's wanted!
Yep. There's going to be some fabricating and welding going on anyway, so might as well just put everything where it needs to be once you've decided on position. :y
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Rack is from a Nissan Almera, not exactly exotic but its what the Rats boys fitted to there 1000bhp lexus v8 with t56 box. Although that had a custom fit bell housing so not sure how that will compare to the ls bell housing and bolt pattern. But first offerings look hopeful.
For and aft engine position looks to have a fair bit of play, until the rack and subframe crossmember interfaces with the sump and rear gearbox mounts to block. That will be the decider there. It easily has clearance for a rack, as it had with its original car, holden gts r8 iirc. which also has a rack. :y
So the rack is going behind the engine? I'd assumed you'd move it in front?
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Hmm... Rack behind engine. Is there enough space to articulate the steering column suitably to operate it? :-\ :-\ Time will tell I s'pose but definitely something that needs considering early on ;)
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Looks very interesting, hope you intend to keep it a sleeper? What is the donor car, can't quite make it out?
Might have to pop along some point and have a gander/lend a hand.
Good luck with it all :y
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Rack is from a Nissan Almera, not exactly exotic but its what the Rats boys fitted to there 1000bhp lexus v8 with t56 box. Although that had a custom fit bell housing so not sure how that will compare to the ls bell housing and bolt pattern. But first offerings look hopeful.
For and aft engine position looks to have a fair bit of play, until the rack and subframe crossmember interfaces with the sump and rear gearbox mounts to block. That will be the decider there. It easily has clearance for a rack, as it had with its original car, holden gts r8 iirc. which also has a rack. :y
So the rack is going behind the engine? I'd assumed you'd move it in front?
If its a good enough design for a 1000bhp omega its good enough for me. Plus logistically its a nightmare. Roll bar, wishbone shape, hub mounting points, sump all foul the path of a front rack. Plus I want to see a direct comparison between the box and rear rack. If its still crap I'll think again.
Also having been driven in Stuarts gts, I don't think there'll be a problem with a rear rack.
Here's the rats install.
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/E30BF1E9-D429-41B6-A8B9-E7DA5B0A1A70-10713-0000048DC0E82B47_zpsd3ad7beb.jpg)
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So you can see the rack only sits a couple of inches behind the hub centre. To replicate that in front of the hub centre, everything is in the way.
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Yep, can see that now. ;D
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Yep, can see that now. ;D
The only advantage I can see with redesigning that whole thing would be the opportunity to do away with that poxy vertical bush. But its major work, and I can't see that justifying the improvement.
But then, I have no experience of the feel and precision differences between the two designs.
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Indeed. A lot of work lies along that path, as Lozz's trials with the Scimitar show.
I'm sure, if you could go double wishbone, you'd get a noticeable improvement but I think you've got enough to worry about for now. ;)
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Indeed. A lot of work lies along that path, as Lozz's trials with the Scimitar show.
I'm sure, if you could go double wishbone, you'd get a noticeable improvement but I think you've got enough to worry about for now. ;)
;D yes I've had similar thoughts, but where does it stop? It takes long enough to get parts from the states, and fit work in around the project :D I'd never finish it.
Simple first. :)
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The two rails that support the rear of the box are non structural so can be removed,but i would leave them in, just in case you can use any of the mounting holes,then remove,what you dont need,easiest way be remove tunnel and refit later in the bild procces, the shell will also need stiching in places,as for brakes and suspension,i think early monero and gto stuff fits.
to make room for the abs pump move it forwards, pas pump can be electric,as could the rack(not cheap), oil cooler?,trany cooler?.
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Pm incoming :y
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Cooling, by all accounts the omega coolers seem to be adequate. But we'll see.
Early monaro brakes I'm not sure will fit, but I haven't checked as they are the first thing to be upgraded on the cv8, in fact even the later monaro brakes are a bit borderline.
It has 18" wheels so that opens up upgrades from those sorts of cars though. :y
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Need to look into brakes a bit more seriously... will be having a conversation on that front in the next week or so :y
The expensive bit is the caliper... discs and pads are service items :y
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Need to look into brakes a bit more seriously... will be having a conversation on that front in the next week or so :y
The expensive bit is the caliper... discs and pads are service items :y
Seen one Monaro calliper on eBay £100 :o Link (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2004-VAUXHALL-MONARO-BREAKING-5-7-V8-o-s-drivers-side-front-brake-caliper-/320858504039?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4ab4a83b67)
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just remembered, i think, serek had audi/porch disc caliper set up, on his 3.2?
dont know if he sold them.
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Looks very interesting, hope you intend to keep it a sleeper? What is the donor car, can't quite make it out?
Might have to pop along some point and have a gander/lend a hand.
Good luck with it all :y
:)
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Looks very interesting, hope you intend to keep it a sleeper? What is the donor car, can't quite make it out?
Might have to pop along some point and have a gander/lend a hand.
Good luck with it all :y
:)
A mixture ;)
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just remembered, i think, serek had audi/porch disc caliper set up, on his 3.2?
dont know if he sold them.
He did. ;)
Audi r8/phaeton discs and pads seem to be popular for that stud pattern. Again, as on the the rats omega.
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Looks very interesting, hope you intend to keep it a sleeper? What is the donor car, can't quite make it out?
Might have to pop along some point and have a gander/lend a hand.
Good luck with it all :y
:)
A mixture ;)
Clue in title. :)
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Audi rs brake discs on the rats. Brembo 6pot calliper.
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/622ebeb6d5c47370553bfed1cc7cb381_zps8fd825b2.jpg)
I have Mercedes ML brake discs from a scrapper to try first though. Almost new, £50.
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Very exciting project and I wish you all the best with it. :y :y :y
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Very exciting project and I wish you all the best with it. :y :y :y
Thankyou Rods. Very kind if you. :y
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Cooling, by all accounts the omega coolers seem to be adequate. But we'll see.
The Omega radiator ought to be fine. It's hard to imagine how you could fit a larger one. ;D
Are you keeping air con, though?
Might be advisable to go for separate oil and transmission coolers. A couple of little MOCAL coolers (or even late Omega transmission coolers) would probably do the job. What were the original transmission and oil cooler arrangements in the "donor"?
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Is it not possible to do this using parts from the GM/Holden parts bin? There's a load of V8 Holdens.
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Is it not possible to do this using parts from the GM/Holden parts bin? There's a load of V8 Holdens.
It what regard..? :)
Holden racks are too wide, to match the chassis platform. Remember the omega is narrower than ALL the Holden chassis. So the wishbone pivots are further apart so the rack pivot points don't match my needs.
The only brakes I'd fit from the Holdens are AP, and are mega bucks.
...everything else is GM.
...? :)
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Cooling, by all accounts the omega coolers seem to be adequate. But we'll see.
The Omega radiator ought to be fine. It's hard to imagine how you could fit a larger one. ;D
Are you keeping air con, though?
Might be advisable to go for separate oil and transmission coolers. A couple of little MOCAL coolers (or even late Omega transmission coolers) would probably do the job. What were the original transmission and oil cooler arrangements in the "donor"?
Very similar to omega afaik.. :-\
Ac will be going on it at some point. But the pump is in poor nic sadly though.
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I am also concerned about the drive train.
Dif... How much power can an omega dif take..?
And the prop shaft may well have to be upgraded. Monaro there maybe. :-\
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I am also concerned about the drive train.
Dif... How much power can an omega dif take..?
And the prop shaft may well have to be upgraded. Monaro there maybe. :-\
No - I reckon that lot will be pretty bomb proof. As to whether the diff ratio will be OK.. need to do the sums. Prop might need a different end on it to suit the gearbox, and may need to be cut and shut due to length, of course.. even if it's a Monaro one.
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I am also concerned about the drive train.
Dif... How much power can an omega dif take..?
And the prop shaft may well have to be upgraded. Monaro there maybe. :-\
One way to find out ::)
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Is it not possible to do this using parts from the GM/Holden parts bin? There's a load of V8 Holdens.
It what regard..? :)
Holden racks are too wide, to match the chassis platform. Remember the omega is narrower than ALL the Holden chassis. So the wishbone pivots are further apart so the rack pivot points don't match my needs.
The only brakes I'd fit from the Holdens are AP, and are mega bucks.
...everything else is GM.
...? :)
So ...... a no then! ;) ;) ;)
I was just asking ....... :y
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Is it not possible to do this using parts from the GM/Holden parts bin? There's a load of V8 Holdens.
It what regard..? :)
Holden racks are too wide, to match the chassis platform. Remember the omega is narrower than ALL the Holden chassis. So the wishbone pivots are further apart so the rack pivot points don't match my needs.
The only brakes I'd fit from the Holdens are AP, and are mega bucks.
...everything else is GM.
...? :)
So ...... a no then! ;) ;) ;)
I was just asking ....... :y
It would be straightforward otherwise. If the omega was as wide as the Holdens I doubt there would a problem fitting the Auto box. :-\
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It would be straightforward otherwise. If the omega was as wide as the Holdens I doubt there would a problem fitting the Auto box. :-\
Looks like you need to buy a V8 Holden & some Griffin badges ::) ::) ::)
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It would be straightforward otherwise. If the omega was as wide as the Holdens I doubt there would a problem fitting the Auto box. :-\
Looks like you need to buy a V8 Holden & some Griffin badges ::) ::) ::)
No toys sadly, and I can't Live with that interior, although the seats are mega comfy.
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Could have had a Holden for 7k too.
This should workout cheaper AND be the car I want. Short of a 10k vxr8 with 20k miles on the clock, which ain't going to happen.
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It would be straightforward otherwise. If the omega was as wide as the Holdens I doubt there would a problem fitting the Auto box. :-\
Looks like you need to buy a V8 Holden & some Griffin badges ::) ::) ::)
No toys sadly, and I can't Live with that interior, although the seats are mega comfy.
;D ;D I've never looked properly at what's on offer to our antipodean cousins ;) ;)
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Could have had a Holden for 7k too.
This should workout cheaper AND be the car I want. Short of a 10k vxr8 with 20k miles on the clock, which ain't going to happen.
Why didn't you buy it then :y
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I am also concerned about the drive train.
Dif... How much power can an omega dif take..?
And the prop shaft may well have to be upgraded. Monaro there maybe. :-\
No - I reckon that lot will be pretty bomb proof. As to whether the diff ratio will be OK.. need to do the sums. Prop might need a different end on it to suit the gearbox, and may need to be cut and shut due to length, of course.. even if it's a Monaro one.
They did fit a different BTR Automotive dif on the prototypes, or whatever they where. Pre production mules ?
Although, it would have had a higher gearing and been LSD maybe. So that alone would warrant a "new" dif. Perhaps. :-\
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Could have had a Holden for 7k too.
This should workout cheaper AND be the car I want. Short of a 10k vxr8 with 20k miles on the clock, which ain't going to happen.
Why didn't you buy it then :y
Ahem... No toys. Don't line the interior. Too expensive as this project should work out cheaper. Much cheaper. ...in £££s at least. Plus I will learn a thing or two. :)
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Could have had a Holden for 7k too.
This should workout cheaper AND be the car I want. Short of a 10k vxr8 with 20k miles on the clock, which ain't going to happen.
Why didn't you buy it then :y
Ahem... No toys. Don't line the interior. Too expensive as this project should work out cheaper. Much cheaper. ...in £££s at least. Plus I will learn a thing or two. :)
What tyres would go on it .......................... ::)
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Could have had a Holden for 7k too.
This should workout cheaper AND be the car I want. Short of a 10k vxr8 with 20k miles on the clock, which ain't going to happen.
Why didn't you buy it then :y
Ahem... No toys. Don't line the interior. Too expensive as this project should work out cheaper. Much cheaper. ...in £££s at least. Plus I will learn a thing or two. :)
What tyres would go on it .......................... ::)
Feel free to start a separate thread Andy.
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Could have had a Holden for 7k too.
This should workout cheaper AND be the car I want. Short of a 10k vxr8 with 20k miles on the clock, which ain't going to happen.
Why didn't you buy it then :y
Ahem... No toys. Don't line the interior. Too expensive as this project should work out cheaper. Much cheaper. ...in £££s at least. Plus I will learn a thing or two. :)
What tyres would go on it .......................... ::)
Feel free to start a separate thread Andy.
OK Chris ........ ;)
Monaro wanna be tyre thread ........ :y :y :y
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Cooling, by all accounts the omega coolers seem to be adequate. But we'll see.
The Omega radiator ought to be fine. It's hard to imagine how you could fit a larger one. ;D
Are you keeping air con, though?
Might be advisable to go for separate oil and transmission coolers. A couple of little MOCAL coolers (or even late Omega transmission coolers) would probably do the job. What were the original transmission and oil cooler arrangements in the "donor"?
The air intake duct can be modified/repositioned without much bother, freeing up another 2-3" for the Omega cooling to be fitted easily, so all three fans, radiator, condenser and oil cooler.
Prop might need a different end on it to suit the gearbox, and may need to be cut and shut due to length, of course.. even if it's a Monaro one.
One thing not tried due to the lack of a suitable spanner (i didn't think to bring it with me :-[), was to see if the flange from an AR35 will fit the splines on the outputshaft of the 4L60e. Then hopefully just a case of finding the correct length front half of the propshaft. Think there are at least 6 to choose from...4 pot/V6/Straight 6 and manual /auto for each. Worst case, the shaft will need to be shorter... :y
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If you need to shorten the driveshaft (or swap ends etc) then that's a fairly inexpensive task - there are lots of companies out there catering to the kit car industry who will do it.. I can easy dig up a recommendation if you end up needing one :)
Brakes - I'll bet those Audi discs are chuffing expensive; they're very nearly the same design (albeit larger) as the M3 and those weren't exactly cheap! Common aftermarket choice of calipers on many cars would be Porsche, though, which might be worth investigating.
Gearbox mount - having looked at mine the other day (albeit very briefly and from a distance) I don't think it's in any way structural .. but I'd second the suggestion to offer it up, remove the least you can and then fab in the new gearbox bracket.
Lastly.. I know the engine is sat on the subframe right now so is a little low in the engine bay, but I can't get over how enormous the engine bay looks with all the gubbins bar engine removed!
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Brakes, yes I looked at Porsche briefly, they just don't make the diameter discs needed, due to the smaller car/weight compared to the omega.
Oe Porsche boxster, for example, are the same size as omega oe.
So, I'm guessing the calipers won't take the radius of the 30mm bigger ml disc?
But at £50 for Merc ML discs, and a bracket for, say, rs4 calipers to fit, I'd be happy with that as a starting point given costs.
What concerns me here is the rear discs. Trying to find a proportionately bigger disc that fits with drum hand brake is proving tricky. :(
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Re engine bay, brake servo, steering box, battery, abs pump all encroach into the engine bay.
Plus the missing scuttle and radiator cover.
Ah, talking of brake servo, I want a servo with more assistance, preferably. Omega is noticeably less assisted with other cars and my preference is to try to improve it. I feel it gives more control. For me.
I wonder what the Holden servo is like? :-\
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IIRC, standard Monaro discs are the same size as the Omega ones, but with a larger caliper and significantly larger pads :-\
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....
What concerns me here is the rear discs. Trying to find a proportionately bigger disc that fits with drum hand brake is proving tricky. :(
What about the Merc ML's rear drum/disc set up?
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IIRC, standard Monaro discs are the same size as the Omega ones, but with a larger caliper and significantly larger pads :-\
Monaro/gto discs are differant pcb, I'm faily sure. There was a member here tried to fit vxr8 (same as monaro?) wheels to omega and they didnt fit. Plus Monaro owners are first to moan about thier brakes, hence the Much sort after AP efforts.
A bigger disc WILL need a caliper bracket made to space any caliper to fit, so provided it fits in an 18" wheel the world as our oister there. (Cost permitting ;) )
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What concerns me here is the rear discs. Trying to find a proportionately bigger disc that fits with drum hand brake is proving tricky. :(
Does it need to be bigger? Granted, the system will need to have the correct balance, but bigger just means more energy absorbed before it overheats. Given that the majority of braking is at the front, the majority of increase is there too. Maybe you'd be Ok with the standard vented rears?
If you're not staying standard, then going to a caliper that incorporates a handbrake mechanism, or a separate handbrake caliper will be your best options when it comes to flexibility of mixing and matching. Monaro/Holden rear brakes worth a look, though.
Ah, talking of brake servo, I want a servo with more assistance, preferably. Omega is noticeably less assisted with other cars and my preference is to try to improve it. I feel it gives more control. For me.
I wonder what the Holden servo is like? :-\
More assistance? Guess you're a Ford man at heart? (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26795734/Smilies/allrun.gif) I prefer as little as I can get away with, or none, as in the Westfield. I would see where you are once you've settled on a brake caliper/pad/disk combo first, as that might well alter the pedal force (or you can choose the cylinder diameters to reduce it if that's what you want).
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....
What concerns me here is the rear discs. Trying to find a proportionately bigger disc that fits with drum hand brake is proving tricky. :(
What about the Merc ML's rear drum/disc set up?
Chrisgixer runs off to google :)
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....
What concerns me here is the rear discs. Trying to find a proportionately bigger disc that fits with drum hand brake is proving tricky. :(
What about the Merc ML's rear drum/disc set up?
Chrisgixer runs off to google :)
Ah, I remember now. Couldn't check, as the Brembo catalogue doesn't list Ml rear discs, so couldn't check the dimensions.
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....
What concerns me here is the rear discs. Trying to find a proportionately bigger disc that fits with drum hand brake is proving tricky. :(
What about the Merc ML's rear drum/disc set up?
Chrisgixer runs off to google :)
Ah, I remember now. Couldn't check, as the Brembo catalogue doesn't list Ml rear discs, so couldn't check the dimensions.
What do you need to know? A R Class is based on an ML running gear ;) ;)
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IIRC, standard Monaro discs are the same size as the Omega ones, but with a larger caliper and significantly larger pads :-\
Monaro/gto discs are differant pcb, I'm faily sure. There was a member here tried to fit vxr8 (same as monaro?) wheels to omega and they didnt fit. Plus Monaro owners are first to moan about thier brakes, hence the Much sort after AP efforts.
A bigger disc WILL need a caliper bracket made to space any caliper to fit, so provided it fits in an 18" wheel the world as our oister there. (Cost permitting ;) )
You misunderstood me :y Holden pcd is 120mm, same as the newest generation Vauxhalls :y
The Omega and Monaro discs are the same thickness and diameter, so keep the vented Omega discs and fit the Monaro caliper, with its much larger pads :y similar size and set up to the Omega fronts iirc :y
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.. but bigger pads alone doesn't give you the ability to dissipate (significantly) more energy. You need a bigger disk to achieve that.
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.. but bigger pads alone doesn't give you the ability to dissipate (significantly) more energy. You need a bigger disk to achieve that.
That makes sense, just trying to think of ways to improve the rears at minimal cost.
Some interesting detail here...
http://www.hsv.org.uk/topic.asp?t=129075&f=69&h=0 (http://www.hsv.org.uk/topic.asp?t=129075&f=69&h=0)
Current prices for the Commodore/Monaro kits are, including VAT:
Fr. CP5555-1027 £2415.24. Six pots with 362x32 discs
Rr. CP5147-1000 £2202.06. Four pots with 330x28 discs
PCD issues have solutions, have someone looking into that :y
But might raise some more second hand possibilities given that discs and pads are service items:y
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One thing that didn't occur to me when we were talking about this on Saturday, is how are you going to get the car's electronics to work with the new engine? That's something that would worry me more than getting the steering right, which is (probably)the worst part of actually getting the engine in.
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The loom and ECU are from a '98 Camaro which was fitted with a 4L60e, gearbox is a '98 4L60e. the engine ECU also controls the gearbox, and has an independent speed input from the gearbox output.
The Omega ABS ECU can remain independent and hopefully also keep the TC working as per standard. The tricky part will be stripping the Omega autobox wiring in order to remove it from the equation as most of it will be surplus. Other non relevant wiring will need to be removed from the engine bay.
The instruments are all fed from the engine ECU, so should be a question of identifying the relevant wires to the instrument cluster and joining them up.
Chris has a detailed ECU guide, detailing all the wires from the engine ECU, which cross references the wire colours and pin numbers. It also includes alot of useful information for such a conversion generally, with detailed wiring diagrams for any circuits that might need to be made from scratch :y
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The Omega ABS ECU can remain independent and hopefully also keep the TC working as per standard.
From that i'm guessing the two way intervention will be lost - ie. it'll still operate the ABS but it wont retard the ignition when deep in the doo doo's!
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The Omega ABS ECU can remain independent and hopefully also keep the TC working as per standard.
Not sure if it won't complain about not seeing an engine ECU. I guess we'll find out....
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The Omega ABS ECU can remain independent and hopefully also keep the TC working as per standard.
Not sure if it won't complain about not seeing an engine ECU. I guess we'll find out....
I reckon big brakes and ditch the ABS...
What happens come MOT time though? How is a car that will have been heavily modified tested against the original parameters? Presumably the car parameters (things like emissions etc) have to change?
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Engine wiring allows for two pre and two post cat O2 sensors :y
Exhaust could easily consist of headers, then made to measure centre sections with suitable high flow cats at the front end with bosses added in for the sensors :y
MoT kind of irrelevant as long as everything meets the standards, same as any car :y if presented on LPG then emissions test becomes laughable anyway...
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The Omega ABS ECU can remain independent and hopefully also keep the TC working as per standard.
Not sure if it won't complain about not seeing an engine ECU. I guess we'll find out....
I reckon big brakes and ditch the ABS...
What happens come MOT time though? How is a car that will have been heavily modified tested against the original parameters? Presumably the car parameters (things like emissions etc) have to change?
I shall speak to my mot guys tomorrow.
Adrian flux said they would cover the car fully comp. Their only stipulation being, upgrade the brakes!
As Nick suggests, the electrics has been at the back of my mind for some time, so thanks to him for bringing it to the forefront.
As most here know, I always want things to work as they should, so integrating everything is going to be key for me.
2woody was fairly clear though. The current engine is from a cable throttle body car. Pre 2003 of the omega.
So from that respect the engine management is incorrect for the car. However it is the cheapest. ESP given the cable throttle body is currently fitted to the engine.
Iirc, 2woody was suggesting that the cheapest option to get the car running was to go with what we have in the cable engine management, and see if it can be made to work with abs etc.
If not. There is fair demand in the uk for bits for Ls engines so would sell quite easily, then fit a Dbw engine management of the same era as the car.
So.....I presume a Dbw 2003 holden set up could supply the abs ecu with enough info to keep the omega abs happy...?
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really liking the look of this CG :y
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Or an ABS from a car that had this drive train?
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really liking the look of this CG :y
Thanks Webby. :)
I fear I have a decision to make though, and its one of no return by the looks.
I was under the car today, and a thought occurred, the area surrounding/fouling the gear box valve body that needs trimming away, might be the mounts I need to use for a manual box.
If so, there'll be no manual option once its been cut. :-\
I guess this is a moment of doubt. :(
;D
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Or an ABS from a car that had this drive train?
Hmmm, might be available. Might.
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Just as getting the engine bolted in the car is about a quarter of the work in an engine swap, I suspect that just joining up the appropriate wires is simply going to be the start of making the electrics/electronics work. Like Chris, I would want all the systems to work, if at all possible.
It doesn't take much for things not to work; I found that a Sierra temp gauge sender does nothing when fitted to a Capri, even though they were visually identical. I know that traditional rev-counters read incorrectly when fed from a different number of cylinders; I suspect that's going to be the case here.
I'd want to know that the ABS/TC ECU won't have the raging hump when divorced from the engine, before going much further. If it just powers the speedo, you'll be ahead. Re-programming is unlikely to be something you can do at home!
Unlike mechanical issues, the electronic ones are likely to leave you shouting in rage at something that should work, but doesn't. Well, they do to me.
You mentioned that GM's prototype had compromised headers, due to the lack of space, I'd be amazed if what you end with isn't compromised too. It amazes me how just fitting one more small component entirely fills what looked like a big space. The trick to this is to fit as much as you possibly can before committing to any difficult jobs. The steering and headers are definitely going to be difficult as they both have to be in particular places.
At least you're going into this complicated job with your eyes open, unlike some of the daft stuff I've done in the past.
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I was under the car today, and a thought occurred, the area surrounding/fouling the gear box valve body that needs trimming away, might be the mounts I need to use for a manual box.
If so, there'll be no manual option once its been cut. :-\
I guess this is a moment of doubt. :(
;D
Make a neat job of cutting it, and keep the 'waste.' Then, as it's only metal, weld it back if the plans fall through.
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Interesting project Chris,one thing about brakes though,a mate of mine had an RS4 and the front discs/pads were shaking a grand to buy when he had it a couple of years ago,Im guessing they aint got cheaper over time :-X
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really liking the look of this CG :y
Thanks Webby. :)
I fear I have a decision to make though, and its one of no return by the looks.
I was under the car today, and a thought occurred, the area surrounding/fouling the gear box valve body that needs trimming away, might be the mounts I need to use for a manual box.
If so, there'll be no manual option once its been cut. :-\
I guess this is a moment of doubt. :(
;D
He who dares wins mate :y :y :y
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I was under the car today, and a thought occurred, the area surrounding/fouling the gear box valve body that needs trimming away, might be the mounts I need to use for a manual box.
If so, there'll be no manual option once its been cut. :-\
I guess this is a moment of doubt. :(
;D
Make a neat job of cutting it, and keep the 'waste.' Then, as it's only metal, weld it back if the plans fall through.
Yes I have a problem with cutting holes in stuff ;D
Post 49 for the omega v8 headers. The left hand drive side is the one that makes me cringe. (Pot8?)
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4276404
Others opinions differ, but IMO, that's the reason the original project was binned back in 2000. Or at least the only sound mechanical reason anyway.
The rack steering column will indeed be fighting for space with the headers. Plus, as I offered it up earlier, the starter motor is that side too. :(
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Or an ABS from a car that had this drive train?
Hmmm, might be available. Might.
Early facelift 3.0 auto ECU along with the throttle pedal, cable and cruise gubbins :y
ABS ECU drives the speedo on the Omega which could help :-\
With regards the gearbox mounting, have you looked at the pages I suggested in "How to fit an LS into anything" yet? Gives a few options with pics :y rereading it, you're pretty much guaranteed to have to get creative with the mounting, but you need the rack in place in order to position the engine just so :y
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Interesting project Chris,one thing about brakes though,a mate of mine had an RS4 and the front discs/pads were shaking a grand to buy when he had it a couple of years ago,Im guessing they aint got cheaper over time :-X
Will look into pad prices on the calipers, good point. :y
ML discs aren't too bad from German and Swedish.
Audi Rs6 with seperate top hat centres from Gsf look nice
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Front-Right-Brake-Disc-for-Audi-A6-02-05-/370850643721?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item56586bbf09
....until I saw the quantity. 1 :o
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Only one left too :-\
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Or an ABS from a car that had this drive train?
Hmmm, might be available. Might.
Early facelift 3.0 auto ECU along with the throttle pedal, cable and cruise gubbins :y
ABS ECU drives the speedo on the Omega which could help :-\
With regards the gearbox mounting, have you looked at the pages I suggested in "How to fit an LS into anything" yet? Gives a few options with pics :y rereading it, you're pretty much guaranteed to have to get creative with the mounting, but you need the rack in place in order to position the engine just so :y
Yes I came to that conclusion today after getting under there having put the rear wheels on ramps. It is the next step... Fit the other subframe, line the rack up, blah...
I'm back to work tomorrow so not much will happen for a week now. Doh!
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So much easier in the "old days" - no ecus to worry about
Done a few in my time - 3.8S Jag engine and box into 105E anglia, tuned MGB engine and O/d gearbox into Riley 1.5, 3,5L V8 into MGB (before BL did it), 3.5L V8 into a Healey 3000, and a few more - so I know some of the issues (suspension, brakes, uprating half shafts etc)
So, seriously, good luck with it ;)
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Or an ABS from a car that had this drive train?
Hmmm, might be available. Might.
Early facelift 3.0 auto ECU along with the throttle pedal, cable and cruise gubbins :y
ABS ECU drives the speedo on the Omega which could help :-\
You need an Omega ABS ECU as they are tuned for the chassis and braking / reluctor setup. CAN ABS ECU will be no good because it won't see the correct engine and trans. ECUs. As you say, only hope is probably a 3.0 ECU with less intelligent interfaces to the other ECUs. Even then, getting the traction control to play properly might be interesting. (but it's pretty pants anyway, so why not a non-TC ECU from a 4 pot and give yourself an easy life?)
And yes, I'd go back to a cable throttle. :y
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I told you those discs would make the M3 ones (about £130 a corner, genuine from BMW) look cheap .. ;D ;D
Re: rear brakes (damn you guys talk a lot while I'm away, don't you.. I'm going back a bit here) - I'm with Kevin in that I'd upgrade the fronts, fit an adjustable bias valve, take it to a set of MOT rollers and adjust the bias so they lock up at roughly the same time and then see what it's like on the road driven hard. I strongly suspect it would be more than fine, you might just need to tweak the rears to do a little more work - but probably not as much as you think.
I really ought to come round some time and look at this creation..
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Good luck with this project , i will watch with anticipation of the outcome ;) :y
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I really ought to come round some time and look at this creation..
Sounds like someone's just about to mention Curry. :P
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So much easier in the "old days" - no ecus to worry about
Done a few in my time - 3.8S Jag engine and box into 105E anglia, tuned MGB engine and O/d gearbox into Riley 1.5, 3,5L V8 into MGB (before BL did it), 3.5L V8 into a Healey 3000, and a few more - so I know some of the issues (suspension, brakes, uprating half shafts etc)
So, seriously, good luck with it ;)
Now that really must have been something! :o
Good luck with the project Chris. :y
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I really ought to come round some time and look at this creation..
Sounds like someone's just about to mention Curry. :P
It's only been a couple of weeks since the .. wait, what am I saying? ;D
Perhaps we could organise an oil-change day round mine, then off to Chris' to look at the project before finishing at Miahs..
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So much easier in the "old days" - no ecus to worry about
Done a few in my time - 3.8S Jag engine and box into 105E anglia, tuned MGB engine and O/d gearbox into Riley 1.5, 3,5L V8 into MGB (before BL did it), 3.5L V8 into a Healey 3000, and a few more - so I know some of the issues (suspension, brakes, uprating half shafts etc)
So, seriously, good luck with it ;)
Now that really must have been something! :o
Good luck with the project Chris. :y
Yep top speed only around 100mph due to gearing, but it did get there bloody quick. Didn't really need a steering wheel - you could "steer" it on the throttle ::) ::)
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Good luck with the project Chris, it`s making interesting reading :y
Regarding the brakes, have you considered the Lotus Carlton set up, it would fit straight on, would be already balanced front to rear, the only problem is availability and cost. might be worth a look though.
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for what its worth......
Cable throttle definitely. You then have the option of using after-market traction control or just relying on the "brakes" part of the ABS-TC. In reality, I have the tc turned off in my Holden and rarely break traction.
For brakes, my Omega track-car uses ML front discs and Audi Q7 calipers, single piston jobbies that I believe are also fitted to some A4s and S4s. These are 365mm and seem to do the job all right. Subjectively, they're better than the Holdens APs. I haven't updated the rears, but do remember that the car never has any rear load - it rides at 332kg on each rear wheel ( as opposed to 450 or so on the front )
My Holden GTS is lighter than my Omega MV6
Check out Saab 9-5 rear discs. The main problem you have is the wheel stud pcd. whilst the ML setup is compatible at 112mm pcd, on the rear you need matching pcd and handbrake drum diameter. The Holden uses a larger handbrake drum than Omega B
The "standard" Holden (non-AP) brakes are absolutely shocking. Maybe the only car I've driven with worse brakes than Omega B.
Yes, you'll need to move the ABS modulator "block", but that's no problem. On the Holden, the engine ecu llives there - yes right next to the exhaust manifold.
Front-mounted rack, although a great idea for handling, isn't easy. You need to swap over the struts from left to right and I haven't gotten my head around that just yet. The rear rack ( that I have of yours ) will work with the subframe, but could give some exciting lower column u/j angles, but that'll need to be done "on the car".
The BTR diff can be made to fit the rear subframe, but you're probably better off starting with an Omega A rear subframe. I have a hunch that the standard diff and driveshafts will be ok so long as you don't go drag-racing.
The shell will live without the gearbox mounting, but I'd replace the same amount of strength with the mount system that you eventually use.
From your photos, the header situation isn't too bad
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for what its worth......
Cable throttle definitely. You then have the option of using after-market traction control or just relying on the "brakes" part of the ABS-TC. In reality, I have the tc turned off in my Holden and rarely break traction.
For brakes, my Omega track-car uses ML front discs and Audi Q7 calipers, single piston jobbies that I believe are also fitted to some A4s and S4s. These are 365mm and seem to do the job all right. Subjectively, they're better than the Holdens APs. I haven't updated the rears, but do remember that the car never has any rear load - it rides at 332kg on each rear wheel ( as opposed to 450 or so on the front )
Check out Saab 9-5 rear discs. The main problem you have is the wheel stuid pcd. whilst the ML setup is compatible at 112mm pcd, on the rear you need matching pcd and handbrake drum diameter. The Holden uses a larger handbrake drum than Omega B
The "standard" Holden (non-AP) brakes are absolutely shocking. Maybe the only car I've driven with worse brakes than Omega B.
Yes, you'll need to move the ABS modulator "block", but that's no problem. On the Hoilden, the engine ecu llives there - yes right next to the ex. manifold.
Thanks 2woody. :y
Do you see any issues with cutting the transmission tunnel box section areas to make way for the box...?
Also, a general,point I wanted to mention re rear handbrake, I wanted to stay away from a caliper operated handbrake, as when they cool and the disc shrinks they can loose bite and fail allowing the car to move.
A drum set up has the opposite effect, in that the disc folks and shrinks onto the handbrake shows, increasing the hold on the brake, instead. Afaik anyway.
Although its an auto so should lock in park anyway. So thanks for reminder in Saab rears. :) but it also sounds like a suck it and see approach will do. :y
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I've just added to that post - you seen ?
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4l60 gear box mount arrived today. Its small and basic, but lends itself readily to modification by the looks.
Thanks Al. :)
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I've got a set of brake calcs for my set-up. Can knock this into a passable "engineer's report" for the insurers.
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caliper-squeezing handbrakes are crap.
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I've just added to that post - you seen ?
Got it.
Ta. :y
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Note to self, buy cutting discs. ;)
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Note to Chris, i've got about 50 of them you can have for nothing.... (not that they cost much)
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Note to self, buy cutting discs. ;)
buy some of those very thin ones mate---but be careful not to twist as using-can shatter--and if removing tunnel might be an idea to brace body--just in case--you probably only need to remove front half anyway-I was lucky my seats just fit-dont move but they fit ;D ;D keep at it-remember
If you need to ask you probably wouldn't understand-----that works on most people when they ask silly/pointless questions
had loads of them-when cut rover in half ;D ;D
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Note to self, buy cutting discs. ;)
buy some of those very thin ones mate
Aye, slitting discs - same as Chris was using the other day round mind to get the exhaust off my car.. ;D
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yep--I use them in mine-now got one of those tiny air cut off tool---damn good for cutting panels out :y
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ready built
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/14139/v8_star_opel_omega.html[/url
(http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/14139/v8_star_opel_omega.html)
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Wow, I've made a fortune. :o
;) ;D
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Some interesting stuff here. :y
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-catera-cimarron-forum/130818-cant-wait-2.html
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Some interesting stuff here. :y
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-catera-cimarron-forum/130818-cant-wait-2.html
Posts 80-83 are particularly relevant, and clearly show that a manual box isn't the answer to clearance issues :y
Don't forget that the 1.5" engine offset is to clear the lhd steering box and ABS unit, which even then needed moving ::) rack should negate the engine clearance issues provided the steering column doesn't foul the exhaust.
BTW, those 'Corvette' brakes are the ones that fit between standard and AP sizes, so a tidy upgrade from standard Omega, (guessing the discs were custom made though as they had the same bolt holes as the Omega ones), although the Merc ML/Audi S4 set up ought to be at least comparable :-\ Similar sized discs/calipers iirc :y
Finally from that thread, the OP has been working on the project since 2008, his last update being August last year, and that was using factory Omega V8 parts, so it might take a little while to get up and running :y
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Did you see the holes around the circumference of the hub area of the front discs for cooling?
Post 28.
And that a good 10-15 mm of the inner swept area of the disc is completely untouched by the pads.
Along with how simple the caliper adaptor bracket is to make in post 31.
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Bit I must say, I didn't realise the t56 doesn't fit either. :o
Makes my issues look insignificant.
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Rear caliper appears to offer no increase in performance what so ever, but is clearly different. Is this the standard vented disc caliper, over the standard solid disc variant?
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Think those discs are custom made using the omega hub as a base. On a Holden/Corvette the hubs are larger so the disc face would be better matched to the pad swept area :y holes around the hub are more to do with lightness I thought :-\
Looking at that thread again, the crossmember on the front subframe looks about an inch lower as well... T56 is mahoosive next to the 4L60 :o
Standard solid caliper on standard solid disc. Looking at the convesation the US rear brakes differed slightly from ours with regard to when vented rears were standard. Shame he doesn't give the disc sizes, although they are made clear on the HSV thread I linked to.
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Those calipers are different to the Monaro VXR ones which arethe same size and design as the Omega fronts :y
Note to self... Stop getting up so early ::)
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Similar stuff here
http://www.opel-infos.de/modelle/omega_bv8.html
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And the sales pdf within
http://www.opel-infos.de/downloads/omegav8_geneva_e.pdf
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And the sales pdf within
http://www.opel-infos.de/downloads/omegav8_geneva_e.pdf
Which says, the omega v8 was available exclusively with automatic gear box. (Or would have been)
...and brakes capable of 10 stops from 100kph. :-\ (not mph)
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Interesting reading 8) though alot of the content from the German link is straight from that Canadian build :y
One interesting thing from a skim read, was that the intended Gearbox was the 4L60E with a king great big oil cooler under the left hand headlight.
Right hand exhaust manifold looks to be a touch compromised though :-\
And the sales pdf within
http://www.opel-infos.de/downloads/omegav8_geneva_e.pdf
Which says, the omega v8 was available exclusively with automatic gear box. (Or would have been)
...and brakes capable of 10 stops from 100kph. :-\ (not mph)
Brakes aren't a deal breaker though :y :-X
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caliper-squeezing handbrakes are crap.
SWMBOs Golf has a caliper squeezing handbrake - it works far better than the crap handbrake on my Omega.
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That manifold is exactly why I'm trying a rack. Its just wrong IMO.
If there was ever a mechanical reason, as opposed to a political one, why they binned that project, those manifolds would be it for me.
I know other manufacturers have done similar, but really... ::)
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caliper-squeezing handbrakes are crap.
SWMBOs Golf has a caliper squeezing handbrake - it works far better than the crap handbrake on my Omega.
Then the omega one needs sorting. ;)
Caliper squeezers hold a hot disc. Which can loose grip when it cools, and the car rolls off down a hill potentially.
Where as a hot drum shrinks on to an already expanded hand brake mechanism, thus the brake holds tighter if anything, not looser.
Ask a Honda civic (?) owner if their car has rolled after parking up. I can give you two.
(Think its the civic :-\)
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The problem is compounded by gay or female owners btw. ;D
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....
Ask a Honda civic (?) owner if their car has rolled after parking up. I can give you two.
(Think its the civic :-\)
I remember some/all of the PSA group cars having problems with handbrakes that didn't hold ;)
The caliper handbrake on SWMBO Hyundai's handbrake were THE proverbial PITA to do anything with ???
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Had issues with my first Vectra C with that set up, and my 2007 Seat >:( it was a crap design when Ford stuck it on the Mk3 Granada 28 years ago and they're still shit ::)
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....
Ask a Honda civic (?) owner if their car has rolled after parking up. I can give you two.
(Think its the civic :-\)
I remember some/all of the PSA group cars having problems with handbrakes that didn't hold ;)
The caliper handbrake on SWMBO Hyundai's handbrake were THE proverbial PITA to do anything with ???
Don't use civic or PSA parts then. :P
I can only speak as I find. I have been driving Omegas for 12 years and the poxy handbrake still catches me out about once a week. The problem is the that the lever that applies the brake is at the bottom next to the fixed post. Once the brake is applied the shoes move away from the post and the car can move slightly and take the tension off the cable.
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Right, so they're shit! That's that sorted then ;D
Koz I've done cock all else with the project so far. ::) ....tomorrow! Lift engine, swap subframes, blocks to replicate engine mounts, slide it back and forth as required (ooh er) :)
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About on Saturday?
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Right, so they're shit! That's that sorted then ;D
Koz I've done cock all else with the project so far. ::) ....tomorrow! Lift engine, swap subframes, blocks to replicate engine mounts, slide it back and forth as required (ooh er) :)
box off or bring a hammer :-\
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Probably wont get that far.
Remove heat shields and sound deadening, mark up where to "adjust it"... ;D
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....
Ask a Honda civic (?) owner if their car has rolled after parking up. I can give you two.
(Think its the civic :-\)
I remember some/all of the PSA group cars having problems with handbrakes that didn't hold ;)
The caliper handbrake on SWMBO Hyundai's handbrake were THE proverbial PITA to do anything with ???
It was the front disc handbrake on the citroen Bx that did that,the factory recall was to grind the bottom two teeth of the handbrake pawl so owners had pull it up harder ::)
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They obviously learnt nowt, iirc, that was a Xantia speciality too ;D
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They obviously learnt nowt, iirc, that was a Xantia speciality too ;D
There may have been a mod done on them too,I've owned two Xantia's and a Bx and had no brake problems with any of them.
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For the gearbox tunnel, I would cut and weld rather than beat the shape.
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Risk of splitting the metal?
I can't seem to find any info on opels adjustments in that area. :(
All the other projects seem to be manual.
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Given fitting an auto would be an electrical nightmare its no surprise I guess.
A tunnel change should be pretty straightforward, if you were to slit long the lower edge and the bulk head you can then ease the sides out as required to make it wider.
Then make up some steel sections to weld in and close the gap up.
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Gearbox wiring is simple enough. only need to bypass the TCM ::)
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Indeed. The gearbox and engine ecu are one unit. 98(?) cable operated throttle.
The problem is getting the car systems to play ball with it. Mostly the tc/abs ... An ecu from a pfl is ear marked for that. I think?
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An ecu from a pfl is ear marked for that. I think?
Pre 1998 ECUs are 3 channel (2 fronts and 1 rear), post 1998 are 4 channel (each wheel independent).
Non TC cars (ie, 2.0, 2.2 (petrol and diesel) and 2.5TD) lack TC functionality.
Would this mean you are looking for a post 1998 non TC ABS ECU?
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On the gearbox mounts, how much needs removing?
Would it be possible to scollope out the required sectiona dn then weld a formed plate in to maintain the strength?
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An ecu from a pfl is ear marked for that. I think?
Pre 1998 ECUs are 3 channel (2 fronts and 1 rear), post 1998 are 4 channel (each wheel independent).
Non TC cars (ie, 2.0, 2.2 (petrol and diesel) and 2.5TD) lack TC functionality.
Would this mean you are looking for a post 1998 non TC ABS ECU?
I'm hoping members here csn answer that one and recommend something, I will want tc and abs working, so whichever is the best option to achieve that really. :-\
Think Kev and yourself where discussing earlier in the thread.
Obviously I have no hope of sorting this out myself. Taxi Al has some good thinking on it too.
Current objective is to get the engine and box in position and see if it viable with the rack in place. I'd that doesn't work, the project will be binned. But it's looking good do far, I just need a spine that works. ;D
Master, I hope to have some better pics of the exact position by the end of the day. But the way it's sitting now, the valve body does actually fit between those two bulk heads, although there are multimeters to spare, and the whole lot needs moving rearwards about two inches.
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Poxy crApple predictive text ;D
Needless to say I'm on the mobile, in the garage, resting. Few... :(
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Are you absolutely set on having the 'original' GM traction control, Chris? If not then there are aftermarket solutions that are (IMHO) much better anyway - RaceLogic have a very nice one, for example..
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Pages 65-73 of the wiring guide cover most of the questions, the Camaro wiring being pretty straight forward :y
Does include wiring for the cooling fans, diagnostics and gearbox connections. :y
Email coming regarding brakes :-X
How have you gotten on today? Gearbox mount helping or not?
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Are you absolutely set on having the 'original' GM traction control, Chris? If not then there are aftermarket solutions that are (IMHO) much better anyway - RaceLogic have a very nice one, for example..
Cost? :-\
If ahem, "we" can get it working with a pfl tcm of some sort that has to be cheaper? Above all I want to keep the standard interior and dash so it all looks oe. There will be no "spaco bob" chavi extra pods or gizmos stick on the dash or A pillar etc. if that's part of it?
If the Gm tcm/abs won't play then other options will have to be considered though. So maybe. :)
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Pages 65-73 of the wiring guide cover most of the questions, the Camaro wiring being pretty straight forward :y
Does include wiring for the cooling fans, diagnostics and gearbox connections. :y
Email coming regarding brakes :-X
How have you gotten on today? Gearbox mount helping or not?
Mmmm yeah your talking that funny electrickary language again :-\ ;D
Good progress today, oe subframe and suspension removed, alternative sub frame fitted with new mount positions thanks to 2woody.
Some proper measuring :o
Pics to follow but the valve body to transmission tunnel looks resolved, but the scuttle drain is most likely in the way. Which is a much better option for "sammy" adjustment. ;) brake lines will have to be re routed, but the abs pump has to be moved anyway.
As said, pics to follow. I'm off for a bath.
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Oh, er, the engine mount brackets from the Holden gts the engine came out of are NOT central to the engine, so they may well have to be changed.
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lol great project! ;D
looks like my engine hoist is getting another workout then?you are luucky i had a full car on the last trip(came back here on 28th august0,cos i nearly collected it! ;D
Im absolutley positive standard 3.2 vented rear discs will be ok,as you said engine is defintely lighter and unless your on a track?uprated rear pads will be suffiecient as rears do so little anyway
,bigger pads and calipers on the standard front discs will give you a larger "swept volume" of braking, :y
but i would go with Woodys suggestion of ML brakes to be honest,as you have them "in stock" makes sense,
front mounted rack would better but nothing wrong with a rear mounted one if it overcomes multiple agro,s by using it,
dont dismiss electric pumps for the power steering bud. many many race cars use these and they are cheaply available and so small you would not believe it!
as you are going auto,diff will be fine power wise but not sure on ratio?guessing twill be fine but stand to be corrected,
biggest tip i can give you is try to use a standard length prop! as its likely to be the only thing,that would keep the car off the road for any great lengh of time if damaged, also makes (usually) the whole business of engine box and positioning a bit easier,it may compromise your ideal position of engine position by an inch or so, but pays off in the long run :y
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Pics
New subframe laid over the old one removed. The added box sections are deliberately long, to allow positioning of the engine for and aft.
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/E8440436-2856-4DAB-B6D2-C6E4C8ADFA1C-21044-0000083309B43924_zps3024d557.jpg)
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/9BF894BF-AF57-43E8-9C91-023F69BE9266-21044-00000833141C1F07_zps14bee7be.jpg)
Should be able to get a long extension and socket from above on both wishbone bolts on both sides now.
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/B04AC48D-D543-4301-9621-C8950D879F59-21044-00000834B287718F_zpse9ba997c.jpg)
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/958C5E83-123A-491C-837F-14C48932CAF3-21044-000008332A81BE68_zpsf6e16202.jpg)
These are the current problem areas. Pas side bank 2 rear cylinder is fouling the brake lines, and has to have the coil pacs fitted yet.
The top pic is a poor shot of the steering rack column input shaft, its very close to the starter motor, and currently needs to move a half inch to the scuttle drain side, which means the engine has to go closer to the scuttle, which means the scuttle needs "adjusting" ;)
As said earlier the brake lines need to be moved, probably up following the under side of the scuttle, then down to the abs pump which will go up and away from the engine where the pas fluid bottle was, well away from heat and exhaust manifolds.
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biggest tip i can give you is try to use a standard length prop! as its likely to be the only thing,that would keep the car off the road for any great length of time if damaged, also makes (usually) the whole business of engine box and positioning a bit easier,it may compromise your ideal position of engine position by an inch or so, but pays off in the long run :y
That is seriously weird advice! A custom made prop is available from any number of suppliers within a couple days, and for about £200. The one in my Avenger was all new, and cost £170. One for this project will only really need the front part from the gearbox, and it uses common parts.
I'd MUCH rather have a custom prop than compromise the installation. And just getting the engine in will be hard enough without limiting any other options.
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lol great project! ;D
looks like my engine hoist is getting another workout then?you are luucky i had a full car on the last trip(came back here on 28th august0,cos i nearly collected it! ;D
Im absolutley positive standard 3.2 vented rear discs will be ok,as you said engine is defintely lighter and unless your on a track?uprated rear pads will be suffiecient as rears do so little anyway
,bigger pads and calipers on the standard front discs will give you a larger "swept volume" of braking, :y
but i would go with Woodys suggestion of ML brakes to be honest,as you have them "in stock" makes sense,
front mounted rack would better but nothing wrong with a rear mounted one if it overcomes multiple agro,s by using it,
dont dismiss electric pumps for the power steering bud. many many race cars use these and they are cheaply available and so small you would not believe it!
as you are going auto,diff will be fine power wise but not sure on ratio?guessing twill be fine but stand to be corrected,
biggest tip i can give you is try to use a standard length prop! as its likely to be the only thing,that would keep the car off the road for any great lengh of time if damaged, also makes (usually) the whole business of engine box and positioning a bit easier,it may compromise your ideal position of engine position by an inch or so, but pays off in the long run :y
Hi Omegatoy, thankyou. Yes your hoist has been invaluable. :y
I hope you don't need it back any time soon, the engine has to come out and in a few times yet. There's never enough time, off days, when my back works are few and far between with good weather. Not sure its wise doing this on a drive way but, need must.
Prop shaft will have to be shortened or swapped out. Its a bout 4inches too long. I'd prefer a stronger one too I think. I don't want that slamming around the tunnel if it twists off and brakes.
If the dif fails, well, I don't think that will take much else with it...?
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More pics to follow of the other areas to fit too, which I am happy with so far.
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biggest tip i can give you is try to use a standard length prop! as its likely to be the only thing,that would keep the car off the road for any great length of time if damaged, also makes (usually) the whole business of engine box and positioning a bit easier,it may compromise your ideal position of engine position by an inch or so, but pays off in the long run :y
That is seriously weird advice! A custom made prop is available from any number of suppliers within a couple days, and for about £200. The one in my Avenger was all new, and cost £170. One for this project will only really need the front part from the gearbox, and it uses common parts.
I'd MUCH rather have a custom prop than compromise the installation. And just getting the engine in will be hard enough without limiting any other options.
lost count of the number of engine conversions ive done bud,and every time ive done it this way its paid off,also did it on the mega meega,,can only speak as ive found over the years,agree its now easier to get a prop made than before,but using standard parts for me always pays off,jm2pw
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These are the current problem areas. Pas side bank 2 rear cylinder is fouling the brake lines, and has to have the coil packs fitted yet.
The top pic is a poor shot of the steering rack column input shaft, its very close to the starter motor, and currently needs to move a half inch to the scuttle drain side, which means the engine has to go closer to the scuttle, which means the scuttle needs "adjusting" ;)
As said earlier the brake lines need to be moved, probably up following the under side of the scuttle, then down to the abs pump which will go up and away from the engine where the pas fluid bottle was, well away from heat and exhaust manifolds.
I'm curious about the thinking behind the box section. Why not just make new mounts welded to the crossmember where they're needed? Some 3mm plate and a little welding and they're done.
Those 'problem areas' are pretty simple; both parts are easily moved. Brake lines don't care where they run, and moving coil packs is common in LS swaps.
Have you fitted the belt driven accessories yet? They take up a surprising amount of space.
And mocking up 'something' for the exhaust manifolds would be next on my list, to see just how difficult they're going to be.
It's looking a bit more doable now.
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Wow Nick, easy. ;D
I think the problem areas speak for themselves tbh. :y
Engine mounts where pre made, as within an inch or two, we didn't know exactly where they would fall. We do now. A starter for 10 ;) plus, I don't have welding facility's here, not do I know how to use them. Yet.
Ironically, I passed up the chance of a proper welder offered by a member here. ::)
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The box section simply and effectively allows a fair amount of leeway with regard to engine positioning without compromise :y
Next time around they could easily be fitted precisely where they belong. The hardest part being determining exactly where they need to be :-\
With regards the brake lines, is there any mileage in colour coding the ends and removing the bits of pipe in the way :-\
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Engine level to the strut top mounts
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/7EEB31F7-A47C-4655-B38F-6A3EDC0FD04E-21044-000008337DD82838_zps203677b8.jpg)
Sump level with side frame rails, or whatever they are called, and clear of tunnel bulk heads either side :) although I don't know if the drive shaft output is in the right place, how do I check this? Something about 3degrees max?
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/36678E10-9408-4A39-BC36-B5B1F9DF1D0E-21044-000008338A29C274_zps417b8214.jpg)
Should ba able to get the connector rod and selector switch in there
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/BDF479F7-1F1B-48C6-A055-50906D4B82A2-21044-00000833FF6B18FD_zpsbd57b67b.jpg)
Plenty of room for pas side manifold
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/3D52AA48-5C55-476F-BFDF-E09FA10337C6-21044-0000083435982725_zps72a8c0d0.jpg)
Rack line up left and right
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/E6BFB0C6-88A2-4C89-8E8E-8F00220A9DE5-21044-000008349B422945_zps4baf9030.jpg)
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/7775C405-DFDD-4A41-81D4-0F094EB15438-21044-000008352809C738_zps73abd7db.jpg)
Mounts
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/894E3864-F2AB-4FAD-8E2E-DE2C3C10FFB8-21044-000008352F3ACD68_zps144d354f.jpg)
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/FFED21AF-42EE-4346-BE92-6462F0AE6765-21044-0000083538B7F291_zps5a0dde68.jpg)
From the front, everything is above the subframe cross member, except one of the bell housing mounting holes that's unused, you can see to just in front of the wood block on the scissor jack.
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/6273AB93-F991-4699-B5FE-1B4D3B5F7BF3-21044-000008355201839B_zpsdd8cbe00.jpg)
Much better position than before. :)
Anything I've missed? As said I'm unsure how to check the gear box output position relative to the prop centre line.
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Oh, another thing, the mounts I have are 70mm deep. If I place a 70mm block of wood to replicate the depth of these on on the box section, with engine on top it sits too high with throttle body and pas bottle rubbing on the bonet under side.
So, unless I can find 40mm odd deep engine mounts, there work to do there. And as said the engine to mount brackets need changing too.
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Don't allow anything to hang low without protection around it, esp the way you drive. Been there, learnt by my silly mistake :-[
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Have a rummage on www.nolathane.com.au (http://www.nolathane.com.au) for engine mounts. You can search by size :y then email pedders for an equivalent :y
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Don't allow anything to hang low without protection around it, esp the way you drive. Been there, learnt by my silly mistake :-[
On my car, the cats sit lower than ALL of those pictured. Once I looked I was surprised I haven't hit one of those stupid speed cushions in mine. :-\
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Have a rummage on www.nolathane.com.au (http://www.nolathane.com.au) for engine mounts. You can search by size :y then email pedders for an equivalent :y
Interesting, although I don't think poly is best for engine mounts, I'll want as much damping as possible I would have thought...? :-\
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Oh, another thing, the mounts I have are 70mm deep. If I place a 70mm block of wood to replicate the depth of these on on the box section, with engine on top it sits too high with throttle body and pas bottle rubbing on the bonet under side.
So, unless I can find 40mm odd deep engine mounts, there work to do there. And as said the engine to mount brackets need changing too.
Rallydesign have heavy duty rubber mounts in both 35 and 50mm(both stock Ford sizes) for £6 each.
Land rovers use very similar parts, which you can find easily.
Or you could make captive ones using a suspension void bush and some tubing, like on Escort world-cup crossmembers. Although that's unlikely to be necessary on a roadcar.
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Don't allow anything to hang low without protection around it, esp the way you drive. Been there, learnt by my silly mistake :-[
On my car, the cats sit lower than ALL of those pictured. Once I looked I was surprised I haven't hit one of those stupid speed cushions in mine. :-\
I did consider grinding it off if needs be.
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Oh, another thing, the mounts I have are 70mm deep. If I place a 70mm block of wood to replicate the depth of these on on the box section, with engine on top it sits too high with throttle body and pas bottle rubbing on the bonet under side.
So, unless I can find 40mm odd deep engine mounts, there work to do there. And as said the engine to mount brackets need changing too.
Rallydesign have heavy duty rubber mounts in both 35 and 50mm(both stock Ford sizes) for £6 each.
Land rovers use very similar parts, which you can find easily.
Or you could make captive ones using a suspension void bush and some tubing, like on Escort world-cup crossmembers. Although that's unlikely to be necessary on a roadcar.
Good man Nick, I'll take a look see. :y
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For engine mounts I'd either;
Go for a 'bobbin' style as Nick suggests (Land/Rover V8, etc) of a suitable height - lots of different variations available, or;
Go for a universal weld on mount: http://www.jegs.com/i/Trans+Dapt/969/4501/10002/-1, or;
Search www.jegs.com or www.summitracing.com - there are about a billion* different variations of LSx mounts available
If you find what you want stateside and you don't want to personally import it, try www.topspeedautomotive.co.uk - they're round the corner from me at work so I can call in and pick bits up, and they got me a QuickTime bellhousing in from the US in under a fortnight for about the same as it would have cost me direct.. really helpful oldschool guys.
P.S. Going back to traction control - yes, RaceLogic stuff is not cheap.. I think about £800 now for a full system, but well worth it and a million times better than the Omega system, certainly the FL one.
*slight exaggeration but, really, only very slight!
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Oh, another thing, the mounts I have are 70mm deep. If I place a 70mm block of wood to replicate the depth of these on on the box section, with engine on top it sits too high with throttle body and pas bottle rubbing on the bonet under side.
So, unless I can find 40mm odd deep engine mounts, there work to do there. And as said the engine to mount brackets need changing too.
Rallydesign have heavy duty rubber mounts in both 35 and 50mm(both stock Ford sizes) for £6 each.
Land rovers use very similar parts, which you can find easily.
Or you could make captive ones using a suspension void bush and some tubing, like on Escort world-cup crossmembers. Although that's unlikely to be necessary on a roadcar.
Good man Nick, I'll take a look see. :y
Yep, I was about to recommend Rally Design too.
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want a Racelogic traction control system - I have one spare......
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I'm guessing gayboy wants, if at all possible, just the standard OE electronic aids, rather than aftermarket add-ons, even if the add-ons are more advanced, purely to keep the cabin standard.
I may be wrong, of course....
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As groomer kiddy fiddler says, really. Oe is my preference. But thanks for the offer. I'll bare it in mind.
Current area of focus is the engine mounts, rack/column and exhaust manifold side of the engine.
...And getting some welding practice in. ::)
(Thanks to Gaffers and Shakeng there :y )
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no problem.
just for reference, the racelogic system is not detectable from a cabin perspective. It has one switch and one lamp, which could easily be the ones already there
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Interestingly, a work collegue has a VXR8 which is currently sat at Walkinshaw Performance having this installed:
http://www.walkinshawperformance.co.uk/wp/uk/products/default.asp?content=Vauxhall VXR8&id=81 (http://www.walkinshawperformance.co.uk/wp/uk/products/default.asp?content=Vauxhall VXR8&id=81)
Hes due to get it back late on friday so will see if I can get a few pics next week.
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Interestingly, a work collegue has a VXR8 which is currently sat at Walkinshaw Performance having this installed:
http://www.walkinshawperformance.co.uk/wp/uk/products/default.asp?content=Vauxhall VXR8&id=81 (http://www.walkinshawperformance.co.uk/wp/uk/products/default.asp?content=Vauxhall VXR8&id=81)
Hes due to get it back late on friday so will see if I can get a few pics next week.
VXR8 was not exactly slow before either :o
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Think he said its mid to high 500's on the bhp after.
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Standard fit on the latest VXR8 iirc :y
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Standard fit on the latest VXR8 iirc :y
Only the GTS variant :y
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Standard fit on the latest VXR8 iirc :y
Only the GTS variant :y
Thought the VF was only blown :-\
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HooohohoHOOOOO that will be fun.
Very interesting Mark. More than my whole package put together.
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Can be done considerably cheaper as DIY becasue the kits are readily availble from the US.
Hes paying for the full package and gets the trhee year warranty thrown in for good measure.
Very versatile these GenIV's
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Done a nice job there. The display you present for us is inspiring and very professional. You really inspired me with that. No doubt very versatile these GenIV's.
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Can be done considerably cheaper as DIY becasue the kits are readily availble from the US.
Hes paying for the full package and gets the trhee year warranty thrown in for good measure.
Very versatile these GenIV's
Has he done it yet? Hmm? Has he has he hmm? :)
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Will get a ride on Monday
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Just trying to imagine.
More horse power than Robs Monaro. Good lord ;D
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I told him to park it next to the bosses Ferrari so he can snigger and say 'more bhp than yours'
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Yum
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/DSC_0272_zps8d78c52f.jpg)
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So
Twin scroll supercharger with twin water intercoolers.
Intercoolers are conneted to a water-air radiator mounted in the lower section of the front grill.
Amazingly, original engine internals used and no change to pistons etc to reduce the compression ratio!
It was leaning out at 580bhp so they dropped it just a little.
Next year it gets cam and bigger fuel pump apparantly.
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(http://www.ukgser.com/forums/images/smilies/201108/drool.gif)
Bomb proof bottom end thanks to 6(?) bolt mains. :)
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Santa arrived early this year, via Northumberland.
Acquired a full exhaust system with cats and headers.
Chrisgixer runs round the room shouting "he's been, he's been" ;D
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So
Twin scroll supercharger with twin water intercoolers.
Intercoolers are conneted to a water-air radiator mounted in the lower section of the front grill.
Amazingly, original engine internals used and no change to pistons etc to reduce the compression ratio!
It was leaning out at 580bhp so they dropped it just a little.
Next year it gets cam and bigger fuel pump apparantly.
They do that... second fuel pump sorts it :y
Bottom end good for 700+bhp... which is nice 8)
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Santa arrived early this year, via Northumberland.
Acquired a full exhaust system with cats and headers.
Chrisgixer runs round the room shouting "he's been, he's been" ;D
You'll now understand why I declined to transport it back with the prop shaft, given that I was 3 up with luggage. ;)
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Santa arrived early this year, via Northumberland.
Acquired a full exhaust system with cats and headers.
Chrisgixer runs round the room shouting "he's been, he's been" ;D
You'll now understand why I declined to transport it back with the prop shaft, given that I was 3 up with luggage. ;)
[/quote]
Yes I'd seen the pictures. With cats it's huge. While a glider trailer would be ideal, it would need to be empty to get the exhaust in in one piece.
No worries Kev. ;)
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Yes, if we'd crashed the glider the plan would have worked perfectly. ::)
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Have you not finished this yet? :D
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Noooo wouldn't want to see that scratched. ;)
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Have you not finished this yet? :D
Shut it you! ;D
This probably won't move much before spring now.
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Have you not finished this yet? :D
Shut it you! ;D
This probably won't move much before spring now.
Don't be silly. Give us a shout when Friday is actually on Friday, and a working party will descend. (and, while we're at it, that press of yours.....)
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Have you not finished this yet? :D
Shut it you! ;D
This probably won't move much before spring now.
Nor will Tunnie ;D
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Have you not finished this yet? :D
Shut it you! ;D
This probably won't move much before spring now.
Nor will Tunnie ;D
Quite happy in Kingston, fab views. Rent free, no bills and no mortgage. :D
Also I get excellent overtime at Christmas, so it's worked out very nicely! :)
Assuming we do actually get it ::)
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Hey guys, new to the Forum. My Friend, Webby-The-Bear showed me the thread after I told him I wouldn't mind doing an Audi 4.2 V8FSI swap into an omega. Have to say, CG, good doing so far! Andwering most of the queries and questions I had regarding the matter. Hope all is going well for you.
P.S - How're thyings looking on the ECU/management side of things?
Happy spanners guys!
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...Simple Pingu (or Luke) i believe is getting the Omega bug after i drove him round town today 8)
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Yes, Steve! Last time I was in an Omega was in the early 2000's. In a W reg 2.2 4cyl estate in green. Will look for the photo later.
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Hey guys, new to the Forum. My Friend, Webby-The-Bear showed me the thread after I told him I wouldn't mind doing an Audi 4.2 V8FSI swap into an omega. Have to say, CG, good doing so far! Andwering most of the queries and questions I had regarding the matter. Hope all is going well for you.
P.S - How're thyings looking on the ECU/management side of things?
Happy spanners guys!
Ecu is combined for auto box and engine, so prety straightforward. Hard part will be integrating the omega systems with it so everything works. :)
Anything is possible of course, but keeping things simple is key to save costs.
In my limited experience, re the Audi lump, I think you need to look at the car in two halfs, as in the so called marriage on the production line between the body and running gear of the front and rear subframes/engine and box/prop.
Pick your body, then pick your running gear, and marry the two.
But be aware of things like front or rear or all wheel drive, Marque and year of manufacture. Try and keep these as similar as possible.
Audi being front or 4 wheel drive, and omega being rear only. So its likely the entire omega running gear will need to be changed. Doable, I guess, but a lot more work... And of course , time and money.
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Plus it's presumably a Quad cam V8, so much wider than the GM V8, so clearance issues in the engine bay will be likely. That said, it's longitudinal in the Audi, IIRC?
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Yes, Steve! Last time I was in an Omega was in the early 2000's. In a W reg 2.2 4cyl estate in green. Will look for the photo later.
Not thread-stealing but worth posting in the gallery ;)
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Plus it's presumably a Quad cam V8, so much wider than the GM V8, so clearance issues in the engine bay will be likely. That said, it's longitudinal in the Audi, IIRC?
Yes the main reason for using the ls1 v8 is the narrow foot print, given the single cam push rod engine. It is extremely narrow with little effect on power.
And nothing at all to do with knowing that opel where so close to releasing a production version to the public. ;)
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I lost track of this project for a while, so how far along is it now?
Keith B
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Understandable, CG. I think the Audi V8 had quite an acute block separation. However, I'll shut up about that and stop hijacking your glorious post!
Any new pictures available of the whole thing?
Happy spanners.
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I lost track of this project for a while, so how far along is it now?
Keith B
Waiting for the weather to bloody warm up. Where as I was waiting for it to cool down. ;D
Basically I'm happy everything will fit except the space between the engine and side of the engine bay frame rail, where the steering column and exhaust manifold interfere with each other. Ignoring the electrics for a minute, that's the only bit I'm worried about ATM.
Having acquired an exhaust with cats, and some fanimolds to measure, I know have some good reference points to work with. 2woody has a rack mounted on a subframe and a bigger dif mounted on a rear subframe.
Mean time, my attention is on the brakes. Still. ::)
Insignificant things like work are currently taking up all the time though, it's that time of year. :(
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Fair do's mate.
Can you not sacrifice frontal space and bring it forward to save them.
(It was resting on the brake lines almost at one point, wasn't it?)
What car's the diff' coming from? I'd presume something big, GM and fast?
And I'm guessing the engine's still loose in situ'?
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Just trying to imagine.
More horse power than Robs Monaro. Good lord ;D
Added a new V8 to my club...
(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r568/robseygo/001-1.jpg) (http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/robseygo/media/001-1.jpg.html)
Auto is the way to go!! but not with monaro 8)
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I was waiting for that to make an appearance ::)
8)
Brakes sorted, with some deciding to do :y
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Right, as its Saturday( ;) ) night, I think a Taxi from the pub to the curry house is in order. Now that's a good night out :y ;D
A vxr8 taxi? Good lord. (Again) :o
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I was waiting for that to make an appearance ::)
8)
Brakes sorted, with some deciding to do :y
Brakes? yours or mine?
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Where have I seen the reg before?
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Just trying to imagine.
More horse power than Robs Monaro. Good lord ;D
Added a new V8 to my club...
(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r568/robseygo/001-1.jpg) (http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/robseygo/media/001-1.jpg.html)
Auto is the way to go!! but not with monaro 8)
Does it come with wiper blades on the seats?
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Right, as its Saturday( ;) ) night, I think a Taxi from the pub to the curry house is in order. Now that's a good night out :y ;D
A vxr8 taxi? Good lord. (Again) :o
Book up now.... West sussex transporting, but I'm working as a transporter.... ;D ;D
Only if price right ;)
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Where have I seen the reg before?
For sale ad ;D ;D
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Just trying to imagine.
More horse power than Robs Monaro. Good lord ;D
Added a new V8 to my club...
(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r568/robseygo/001-1.jpg) (http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/robseygo/media/001-1.jpg.html)
Auto is the way to go!! but not with monaro 8)
Does it come with wiper blades on the seats?
Refreshment and news paper... :)
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As the saying goes... If your to do summat, be sure to do it proper...
Find me a white manual '09 one for sensible money :-X
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Where have I seen the reg before?
For sale ad ;D ;D
Yes, quite recently though, no?
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As the saying goes... If your to do summat, be sure to do it proper...
Find me a white manual '09 one for sensible money :-X
That would be nice Al!! 8) 8)
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Where have I seen the reg before?
For sale ad ;D ;D
Yes, quite recently though, no?
???
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I was waiting for that to make an appearance ::)
8)
Brakes sorted, with some deciding to do :y
Brakes? yours or mine?
For the upgrade :y mine are still shocking :-X
As the saying goes... If your to do summat, be sure to do it proper...
Find me a white manual '09 one for sensible money :-X
That would be nice Al!! 8) 8)
That it would, but might have to make do with an Insignia VXR... :-X unless I win the lottery, in which case a brand new Clubsport Sportwagon would be on the drive in six weeks...
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Where have I seen the reg before?
For sale ad ;D ;D
Yes, quite recently though, no?
???
In other words, how ling have you had it? Long enough to Taxi it by the looks?
So either my memory is appalling. (Most likely)
Or you taxied it prety damn quick. :y
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three weeks
Lpg being fitted next week BRC ;)
84 liter tank to go in spare tyre well
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Before you ask, other one still here, Not selling it! ;D
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three weeks
Lpg being fitted next week BRC ;)
84 liter tank to go in spare tyre well
Wanna buy an mv8 project? ;D
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three weeks
Lpg being fitted next week BRC ;)
84 liter tank to go in spare tyre well
Wanna buy an mv8 project? ;D
Think it's great what your doing but i'm shocked you haven't brought a vxr8 by now!!!!! suit you so well! Lovely motor to drive!!!
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three weeks
Lpg being fitted next week BRC ;)
84 liter tank to go in spare tyre well
Wanna buy an mv8 project? ;D
Think it's great what your doing but i'm shocked you haven't brought a vxr8 by now!!!!! suit you so well! Lovely motor to drive!!!
Simple. Cost. Although if I sold the bike cars and everything else it could be doable. I don't like putting all my eggs in one basket.
Although if the vxr8 had more toys' like auto close, memory seats/mirrors, rear blind etc, then i probably would. Prices need to come down a bit too. Which they do seem to be, to be fair.
Then there's the thought of lpg ing yet another car, and getting it how I want it, etc.
But your right really. I keep looking. :y
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Only you know what you want! I'm very happy tho.... ;)
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Only you know what you want! I'm very happy tho.... ;)
Bet your glad you didn't go down the Vectra/Passat/Superb route ;D
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Only you know what you want! I'm very happy tho.... ;)
Bet your glad you didn't go down the Vectra/Passat/Superb route ;D
That just wasn't a option!!
Ok back on topic.... Sorry Chris
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I can confirm that the taxi doesn't need any more toys. 8)
.. and it hustles the punters along rapidly enough.
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Only you know what you want! I'm very happy tho.... ;)
Bet your glad you didn't go down the Vectra/Passat/Superb route ;D
That just wasn't a option!!
Ok back on topic.... Sorry Chris
Not at all. Always happy to talk vxr8's. :)
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three weeks
Lpg being fitted next week BRC ;)
84 liter tank to go in spare tyre well
Wanna buy an mv8 project? ;D
Think it's great what your doing but i'm shocked you haven't brought a vxr8 by now!!!!! suit you so well! Lovely motor to drive!!!
+1 :)
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three weeks
Lpg being fitted next week BRC ;)
84 liter tank to go in spare tyre well
Wanna buy an mv8 project? ;D
Think it's great what your doing but i'm shocked you haven't brought a vxr8 by now!!!!! suit you so well! Lovely motor to drive!!!
+1 :)
Give or take the odd decimal pint EMD I'm tighter than you are. ;)
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three weeks
Lpg being fitted next week BRC ;)
84 liter tank to go in spare tyre well
Wanna buy an mv8 project? ;D
Think it's great what your doing but i'm shocked you haven't brought a vxr8 by now!!!!! suit you so well! Lovely motor to drive!!!
+1 :)
Give or take the odd decimal pint EMD I'm tighter than you are. ;)
One day , a garage and a vxr (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-pray.gif)
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So, on the talk of VXR8's... Are the engine's hard to come by?
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So, on the talk of VXR8's... Are the engine's hard to come by?
Yes. And expensive when they do come up. Very few cars where imported to the uk with this ls1,2 or 3. However there is massive market in the states. So sourcing engines and parts is easy, but shipping takes time and costs a fair bit.
The thrue value of this project is the engine and box. The car is pence in comparison.
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Recall master posting a link for a brand spankers LS1, around ~£4k?
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Used your looking minimum 4k for engine and auto box complete. More with a manual. Manual tremac t56 box is difficult to acquire for less than 1k. Although I know somebody who got lucky at £700. But it doesn't actually fit in the omega transmission tunnel without major cutting and welding of metalwork.
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Having said all that, I didn't pay anywhere near that much.
With help from slot Al, we picked up a 4l60e for £50 :o
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Having said all that, I didn't pay anywhere near that much.
With help from slot Al, we picked up a 4l60e for £50 :o
Damn that is cheap! No wonder you are going that route. I was about to suggest this:
http://www.lsxp.net/prices/4561262899 (http://www.lsxp.net/prices/4561262899)
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Having said all that, I didn't pay anywhere near that much.
With help from slot Al, we picked up a 4l60e for £50 :o
Damn that is cheap! No wonder you are going that route. I was about to suggest this:
http://www.lsxp.net/prices/4561262899 (http://www.lsxp.net/prices/4561262899)
Need to be careful what I say here, as I've not used them, but that particular service relies on taking a large lump sum up front, then they go off and buy an engine in the states, and ship it back. Delivery up to 3months iirc..?
There nothing to stop any joe doing that diy. Whithout the risk of handing over a large lump of cash to somebody you don't know that has to leave the country to fulfil the contract.
Having said all that, he's knowledgable and helpful, so maybe I'm being unfair. :(
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Also note the ident no.s. They are truck engines. Different inlet manifolds need to be sourced, and all that missing running gear is expensive stuff.
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Ah I see. :)
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My jaw hit the table at the costs... maybe once the lottery is won and the econ' has picked up... so... when I'm 100, wake me up...
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Any more progress?
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Any more progress?
Nope, won't be until spring now. Too busy, not enough day light, and the welder is playing up. Exhaust with cats acquired though. ;)
Re costs, all things are relative, as I keep saying. A Holden R8 gts goes for about 7k. Monaro about 10k I'm guessing. Vxr8 your looking at about 12k for something worth owning.
So given the cost/second hand value of engine and box, which bolsters the prices of these cars, you can see the age increasing value as the cars get younger. So knock 4/5k depending on miles, for the engine and box, off the value of those cars above, you get the value of the chassis. Total cost of this project so far is 4k, but I already had the car that I bought for other reasons anyway.
So to sum up, the way I see it, relative to the price of the cars above, this project is a comparative bargain. Arguably better interior than the monaro or r8 with more toys and allegedly better suspension geometry, believe it or not.
I had the car already, and should end up with a better car for between 3k and 8k less money, depending on which option you compare with.
....all being well, it's an absolute bargain. IMO. :)
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That's not to say that a vxr8 isn't still on my shopping list.
...one day. ;)