Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: HDR on 27 August 2013, 18:37:11

Title: Forged V6?
Post by: HDR on 27 August 2013, 18:37:11
Hi everyone

As you can see by the title I have some questions about
Forging my 2.5 v6.

I am very interested in the near future forging my 2.5 v6
but don't no where to start is it possible? is it worth it?
and whats the best route to go down? so just need
some help/advice really.

Cheers Harley  :)
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: Nick W on 27 August 2013, 19:04:32
What do you mean by forging? Either that's a production process for metal parts, or faking stuff.

Neither are something that you can do to your engine!

I'm assuming that you want to tune it in some way, in which case you are going to need a lot of money.
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: HDR on 27 August 2013, 19:13:27
Obvs you don't no what you are talking about. I am looking for information on:

forged pistons
forged rods
uprated bearings
etc etc etc....

Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: Shackeng on 27 August 2013, 19:25:27
Troll alert!!!
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: robson on 27 August 2013, 19:40:43
pleasent new member :'(
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: tunnie on 27 August 2013, 19:42:04
If you want more power drop a V8 in, the V6 is not far off its performance limit.

Obvs you don't no what you are talking about. I am looking for information on:

forged pistons
forged rods
uprated bearings
etc etc etc....



We are adults here, going by the text speak, we know you are not ;)
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: sdwall on 27 August 2013, 19:46:14
Obvs you don't no what you are talking about. I am looking for information on:

forged pistons
forged rods
uprated bearings
etc etc etc....

Someone needs to work on their personal skills!  :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: HDR on 27 August 2013, 19:50:01
I only asked a question and got a stupid reply making me look like an idiot
should have bitten my tongue

but did not mean it in a nasty way, but I can see how it would come across
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: sdwall on 27 August 2013, 19:56:10
I'm sure you'll be forgiven in a heartbeat! They're all good eggs on here!

 :y :y :y
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: robson on 27 August 2013, 19:57:38
Only stupid in your eyes
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: HDR on 27 August 2013, 20:04:47
so is there any supplier or place I can get forged engine parts from?
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: robson on 27 August 2013, 20:08:05
I will check tomorrow and let you know
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: zirk on 27 August 2013, 20:13:48
Hi everyone

As you can see by the title I have some questions about
Forging my 2.5 v6.

I am very interested in the near future forging my 2.5 v6
but don't no where to start is it possible? is it worth it?
and whats the best route to go down? so just need
some help/advice really.

Cheers Harley  :)

TBH, why bother, you cant get much more power out of them and they dont like being Turbo'd or  Blown. if your after a tad more power from your 2.5, cheapest way is to fit 3.0 Cams. 
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 27 August 2013, 20:20:18
Hi everyone

As you can see by the title I have some questions about
Forging my 2.5 v6.

I am very interested in the near future forging my 2.5 v6
but don't no where to start is it possible? is it worth it?
and whats the best route to go down? so just need
some help/advice really.

Cheers Harley  :)

Your block is same with 3.0 you can re-bore the cylinders to 3.0 diameter and use c20let pistons..


in any case you will face cooling and bottom end problems (assuming you will try forced induction)  which will multiply the bill ..  can be done but costly..

and if your 2.5 is not manual autobox will thrash your work :-\

also 3.0 cams will help as said..
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: HDR on 27 August 2013, 20:24:46
yea I was thinking about putting the 3.0 cams in but cheers dudes I do a little more research into it
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: tunnie on 27 August 2013, 20:43:11
Pointless modifying the 2.5, just get a 3.0.
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: AndyRoid on 27 August 2013, 21:28:23
Pointless modifying the 2.5, just get a 3.0.
+1 for that, there is no "bolt on" replacement for cubic inches.
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: sjc on 27 August 2013, 22:02:26
As I understand it, the 3.2 has a much stronger crank than the 2.5/3.0.  That's where I'd start if I was going all out on an engine.
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 27 August 2013, 22:10:45
3.2 has a forged crank, so that's a start. :y

Forged components implies you're going to be revving it higher or going forced induction, so worth exploring the availability of those options first.. i.e. porting, cams, induction and exhaust setup.

To be honest, there isn't a great track record of tuning this engine. Either those in the know have tried and failed, or they just haven't tried. Either way, being a trailblazer isn't necessarily a good thing in terms of value for money against starting with something with some pedigree and a load of tuning parts off-the-shelf.
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: Andy H on 27 August 2013, 22:29:50
I wonder if any of the current Insignia engines would fit ? (2.0T, 2.8T)

I cannot find out if those engines use the same GM bolt pattern for the gearbox :-\
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: 2woody on 27 August 2013, 22:46:20
2.0 yes

2.8T no
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: tunnie on 27 August 2013, 22:54:18
If its all out power my vote is still for V8, as you will have a lot more options for further power.

That said I think I'd look at a Monaro, big V8, comfy like Omega designed for a V8 so much space in that engine bay. Price wise not far off I suspect, compared to modifying an Omega.

A lucky member here has a 600bhp Monaro, now that shifts!
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: TheBoy on 28 August 2013, 07:57:38
As others have implied, I think the cheaper route would be an engine transplant. Likely to be far less hassle as well.

If you are going to stick to an Omega engine, I think you want to start out with the larger V6.

On the upside, with so many being scraped, engine parts are readily available from breakers if specific tuning attempts end badly
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 28 August 2013, 09:10:21
The OP drives a Chevette, though. ;) Maybe he's planning an HSR++ build, in which case I'd say a V6 would be "adequate". ;)
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: albitz on 28 August 2013, 10:01:19
That 3.2 engine sat on my drive would look  8) under the bonnet of a chevette.  :) :D
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 28 August 2013, 13:50:29
That 3.2 engine sat on my drive would look  8) under the bonnet of a chevette.  :) :D

its mine dont sell ;D 
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 28 August 2013, 14:08:46
That 3.2 engine sat on my drive would look  8) under the bonnet of a chevette.  :) :D

My mates 1256cc one was funlethal enough on a wet roundabout. :o
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: omega3000 on 28 August 2013, 14:50:34
That 3.2 engine sat on my drive would look  8) under the bonnet of a chevette.  :) :D

 :o
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: HDR on 29 August 2013, 00:10:04
cheers for the help everyone!

the Chevette has already got a 2.5 v6 in it
picture of engine bay below  ;)

http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/HarleyDelRio/media/BSNoCmHCMAEF-d6jpg-large_zps0905751a.jpeg.html?sort=3&o=3

so is it better to engine swap to a bigger v6? or full engine transplant
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: albitz on 29 August 2013, 00:16:25
Tbh,the 3.0 engine has considerably more grunt than the 2.5.Rather than spend a lot of dosh trying tune the 2.5 it would be cheaper and easier to drop a 3.0 in there. Shame I know,but I weighed a car in a few months ago with a good 3.0 enine still in it.No-one wanted it at the time,so I just took the heads off and kept them. :(
The 3.2 is similar,but it might be quite involved to transplant one into a car which currently has a 2.5 in.Its a drive by wire setup,which would probably need quite a bit of rewiring I would think,so a 3.0 would be easier,as it would be a straight swap.
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: albitz on 29 August 2013, 00:17:50
That 3.2 engine sat on my drive would look  8) under the bonnet of a chevette.  :) :D

My mates 1256cc one was funlethal enough on a wet roundabout. :o

Kevin,you haven't lived until you've run out of talent half way round a fast sweeper in the wet in a 180bhp Chevette. ;) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: TheBoy on 29 August 2013, 10:08:15
Tbh,the 3.0 engine has considerably more grunt than the 2.5.Rather than spend a lot of dosh trying tune the 2.5 it would be cheaper and easier to drop a 3.0 in there. Shame I know,but I weighed a car in a few months ago with a good 3.0 enine still in it.No-one wanted it at the time,so I just took the heads off and kept them. :(
The 3.2 is similar,but it might be quite involved to transplant one into a car which currently has a 2.5 in.Its a drive by wire setup,which would probably need quite a bit of rewiring I would think,so a 3.0 would be easier,as it would be a straight swap.
TBH, I think the 3.0l is quicker, maybe lacking the initial surge from idle that the 3.2 has, and is more economical.  So I would defo go with 3.0l over a 3.2 in this case, unless you need the forged crank.
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: sjc on 29 August 2013, 10:18:40
I have an early (pre-immobiliser) 3.0l engine ECU here if you're thinking of using the factory management system.
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: YZ250 on 29 August 2013, 10:24:22
.....so is it better to engine swap to a bigger v6? or full engine transplant

Having owned both the 2.5 and 3.2, I can honestly say that there is a massive difference in the power of the bigger V6, mainly the torque.  :y  As said, the 3.0 is probably the easier route for engine transplant due to not being DBW.
Be disappointing to spend loads on tuning the 2.5, just to have a standard 3.0 come past you.  :-\
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: Andy H on 29 August 2013, 19:35:40
cheers for the help everyone!

the Chevette has already got a 2.5 v6 in it
picture of engine bay below  ;)

http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/HarleyDelRio/media/BSNoCmHCMAEF-d6jpg-large_zps0905751a.jpeg.html?sort=3&o=3

so is it better to engine swap to a bigger v6? or full engine transplant
Are you running the original ECU? You will notice a dramatic improvement in driveabilitiy if you install the complete bag-pipe system along with the solonoid valves  :y
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: Nick W on 29 August 2013, 22:34:24
cheers for the help everyone!

the Chevette has already got a 2.5 v6 in it
picture of engine bay below  ;)

http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/HarleyDelRio/media/BSNoCmHCMAEF-d6jpg-large_zps0905751a.jpeg.html?sort=3&o=3

so is it better to engine swap to a bigger v6? or full engine transplant

Nice car.
 I suspect it's already 'interesting' to drive, so the bigger engine would probably make it scary.
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: HDR on 30 August 2013, 00:12:45
so the 3.0 litre the best way to go!? and the car is fast as is but going for wider wheels and different rear end set up so want abit more power just for abit more fun...
now to find one has anyone got one for sale? ;)

and does the 3.0 use the same ecu and same wiring?

cheers for the help everyone :y
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: albitz on 30 August 2013, 00:24:21
All wiring will be the same.Im pretty sure the ECU will be too,although someone more knowledgeable could confirm.
You would notice a big difference between the 2.5 & 3.0. :y
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: 05omegav6 on 30 August 2013, 03:49:42
As already hinted at, 2.5 and 3.0 are electrically identical, so just a few bolts to swap them over for an instant 35+ bhp upgrade :y
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: albitz on 30 August 2013, 10:03:53
As already hinted at, 2.5 and 3.0 are electrically identical, so just a few bolts to swap them over for an instant 35+ bhp upgrade :y

In real life use,it feels like much more than that imo.
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: sjc on 30 August 2013, 10:05:00
2.5 and 3.0 ECU are different part no's in EPC but I'd strongly suspect the key difference is the ignition and fuel map chip - assuming we're looking at ECUs for the same chassis range... there are a lot of variants!

Best thing would be to post up the part no from the current ECU, alternatively, you just take the Eprom chip from any 3.0 ECU and plug it into the one you've got - this'd be what I'd do along with transferring the wiring from your 2.5 to the 3.0 lump.

i.e. transfer the ECU and wiring from your 2.5 to the 3.0 and change the chip in your ECU for the 3.0 one.

You could also use an MTek 3.0L chip if you wanted to "chip it".  I run a RedDot Racing chip in mine which has similar maps to the MTek chip but also has a higher rev limit (7,200 ;D), the difference is not astounding but noticeable.

Avoid the fleebay specials - they're all a waste of money and likely to reduce performance and fuel efficiency.
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: sjc on 30 August 2013, 10:10:43
You'll also want to change the flywheel - the heavy dual mass one serves a purpose in a big car like the Omega but I doubt your Chevette weighs anywhere near 2 tonne so you'd see a difference with a lightened one.
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: HDR on 30 August 2013, 11:16:30
I will grab the part number of my ECU as my car is in my mates garage at the moment getting rust sorted out on it :(

I have a lightened flywheel, diesel clutch and uprated fuel pump I am under the impression that i am running the standard ECU as it was a straight swap from the omega to the chevette

just need to get my hands on a 3.0 lump and ECU I am getting excited! :D
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: symes on 30 August 2013, 22:51:41
if you going to put it into chevette--why not look at v8--merc or lexus or chev/ford if I was going to all the hassle of modifying then would want to make it worthwhile :y :y maybe an astra vxr engine as an example would be an easier option
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: biggriffin on 01 September 2013, 18:22:43
I will grab the part number of my ECU as my car is in my mates garage at the moment getting rust sorted out on it :(

I have a lightened flywheel, diesel clutch and uprated fuel pump I am under the impression that i am running the standard ECU as it was a straight swap from the omega to the chevette

just need to get my hands on a 3.0 lump and ECU I am getting excited! :D

Got a 3.0L motor here 85k,and looms and ecu. Still in car. :y
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: HDR on 02 September 2013, 13:20:19
I was thinking of putting a big chevy motor in it but that will probs be next year

just to get an idea how much are you after for the engine just to see the prices and stuff...?

cheers Harley
Title: Re: Forged V6?
Post by: biggriffin on 02 September 2013, 19:47:31
You have a PM. :)