Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Gaffers on 25 May 2008, 15:09:14

Title: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: Gaffers on 25 May 2008, 15:09:14
As I continue to be amazed by Debs knowledge of .....well just about everything I was pondering this question while building my sailing dinghy:

Why does epoxy resin, which sticks solidly to pretty much everything, not stick to plastics?

Its great because as I layer up the epoxy on the wood it sticks to my boat and not my tools , but before I write into Brainiac........  :y
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 25 May 2008, 15:10:29
I may know the answer, but seeing as you want Debs... you'll have to wait 'till she arrives :D
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: Gaffers on 25 May 2008, 15:20:23
smarty pants!!  ;D ;D ;D

Why not try and beat her then..... I have no idea of the answer so baffle away mate  :y
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: Debs. on 25 May 2008, 16:26:20
Quote
As I continue to be amazed by Debs knowledge of .....well just about everything I was pondering this question while building my sailing dinghy:

Why does epoxy resin, which sticks solidly to pretty much everything, not stick to plastics?

Its great because as I layer up the epoxy on the wood it sticks to my boat and not my tools , but before I write into Brainiac........  :y

Plasticiser!.......many plastics effectively 'decompose' as they age, releasing oily/gaseous products of decomposition at the surface interface.
Often, this surface 'lubricity' may be removed temporarily with acetone or other de-naturing solvents combined with the surface being mechanically 'keyed' by abrasion immediately prior to bonding with amine-epoxy/polyester-aliphatic resin adhesive.
There are also specially formulated hydrocarbon compounds which are designed to etch the surface of specific types of plastics both to remove 'bloom' but also partially soften the surface interface to permit a weld-joint to form with compatible resin systems. :y
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: Gaffers on 25 May 2008, 16:29:45
so if I rubbed the plastic with solvent and scotch brite and applied expoxy it would stick?
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: Debs. on 25 May 2008, 16:38:21
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so if I rubbed the plastic with solvent and scotch brite and applied expoxy it would stick?
I`d use coarse wire-wool and give the surface a thorough roughening in all directions and use solvent afterwards (just prior to bonding with resin)....the green Scotchbrite pads are only plastic themselves so would have little abrading effect on a similarly 'plastic' surface.
Beware of using 'Nail polish remover' as a solvent; it often has oils added to prevent nail embrittlement and will contaminate your 'clean' bonding-field.
Acetone/Iso-Propanol or those alcohol-soaked pre-injection 'medi-wipes' are excellent solvents rather than decorators`s white spirit (which often has oily 'parafinoids' left in it during manufacture).
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: HolyCount on 25 May 2008, 16:49:39
Quote
Quote
As I continue to be amazed by Debs knowledge of .....well just about everything I was pondering this question while building my sailing dinghy:

Why does epoxy resin, which sticks solidly to pretty much everything, not stick to plastics?

Its great because as I layer up the epoxy on the wood it sticks to my boat and not my tools , but before I write into Brainiac........  :y

Plasticiser!.......many plastics effectively 'decompose' as they age, releasing oily/gaseous products of decomposition at the surface interface.
Often, this surface 'lubricity' may be removed temporarily with acetone or other de-naturing solvents combined with the surface being mechanically 'keyed' by abrasion immediately prior to bonding with amine-epoxy/polyester-aliphatic resin adhesive.
There are also specially formulated hydrocarbon compounds which are designed to etch the surface of specific types of plastics both to remove 'bloom' but also partially soften the surface interface to permit a weld-joint to form with compatible resin systems. :y


Amazing how obvious the answer is, once you hear it <<Koff>> ::)
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: Big_Al on 25 May 2008, 18:17:16
I'm gonna change from Google to... DEBS ;D ;D
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: dbug on 25 May 2008, 18:27:36
Quote
Quote
As I continue to be amazed by Debs knowledge of .....well just about everything I was pondering this question while building my sailing dinghy:

Why does epoxy resin, which sticks solidly to pretty much everything, not stick to plastics?

Its great because as I layer up the epoxy on the wood it sticks to my boat and not my tools , but before I write into Brainiac........  :y

Plasticiser!.......many plastics effectively 'decompose' as they age, releasing oily/gaseous products of decomposition at the surface interface.
Often, this surface 'lubricity' may be removed temporarily with acetone or other de-naturing solvents combined with the surface being mechanically 'keyed' by abrasion immediately prior to bonding with amine-epoxy/polyester-aliphatic resin adhesive.
There are also specially formulated hydrocarbon compounds which are designed to etch the surface of specific types of plastics both to remove 'bloom' but also partially soften the surface interface to permit a weld-joint to form with compatible resin systems. :y

Can confirm spot on!! (I have an hons degree in Plastics Technology)
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: Gaffers on 25 May 2008, 18:57:39
Quote
Quote
Quote
As I continue to be amazed by Debs knowledge of .....well just about everything I was pondering this question while building my sailing dinghy:

Why does epoxy resin, which sticks solidly to pretty much everything, not stick to plastics?

Its great because as I layer up the epoxy on the wood it sticks to my boat and not my tools , but before I write into Brainiac........  :y

Plasticiser!.......many plastics effectively 'decompose' as they age, releasing oily/gaseous products of decomposition at the surface interface.
Often, this surface 'lubricity' may be removed temporarily with acetone or other de-naturing solvents combined with the surface being mechanically 'keyed' by abrasion immediately prior to bonding with amine-epoxy/polyester-aliphatic resin adhesive.
There are also specially formulated hydrocarbon compounds which are designed to etch the surface of specific types of plastics both to remove 'bloom' but also partially soften the surface interface to permit a weld-joint to form with compatible resin systems. :y

Can confirm spot on!! (I have an hons degree in Plastics Technology)

Reeeespect!!!  :y

Wanna help me coat the hull?  only 2 more coats of epoxy, a primer and paint, oh and a layer of varnish ;)

Free board and beer in return  ;D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: Gaffers on 25 May 2008, 18:58:14
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I'm gonna change from Google to... DEBS ;D ;D

I'm just logging the domain www.debs.co.uk   ;D ;D
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: Gaffers on 25 May 2008, 18:59:24
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Quote
I'm gonna change from Google to... DEBS ;D ;D

I'm just logging the domain www.debs.co.uk   ;D ;D

D'oh! Taken  >:(
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 25 May 2008, 19:03:35
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Quote
I'm gonna change from Google to... DEBS ;D ;D

I'm just logging the domain www.debs.co.uk   ;D ;D


www.debs.co.uk/help/menu/
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: Debs. on 25 May 2008, 19:05:46
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Reeeespect!!!  :y

Wanna help me coat the hull?  only 2 more coats of epoxy, a primer and paint, oh and a layer of varnish ;)

Free board and beer in return  ;D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

 ;) I love working with composites :y

Most of my working career has been with composite aircraft structure....`not much marine, but there`s a cross-over in terms of substrate, lamina and matrices between aerospace and high-spec marine use these days.
`Just love the smell of resin and sanding dust! ;)
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: Gaffers on 25 May 2008, 19:10:22
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Quote
Reeeespect!!!  :y

Wanna help me coat the hull?  only 2 more coats of epoxy, a primer and paint, oh and a layer of varnish ;)

Free board and beer in return  ;D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

 ;) I love working with composites :y

Most of my working career has been with composite aircraft structure....`not much marine, but there`s a cross-over in terms of substrate, lamina and matrices between aerospace and high-spec marine use these days.
`Just love the smell of resin and sanding dust! ;)


 :o :o :o I hope not!  Its pretty nasty stuff.  Plenty of boat builders have come a cropper as a result and many wood sawdust its not much better then asbestos..  (but why am I telling the oracle this.....?)

Not really doing substrates more a stitch and glue technique starting with 5 sheets of plywood.

This is the boat I am building :

http://www.boatplans.dk/boat_plans.asp?id=44

Upto the fairing part now, then primer then paint and varnish....

Anyone suggest names?
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: waspy on 25 May 2008, 19:17:40
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Quote
Quote
Reeeespect!!!  :y

Wanna help me coat the hull?  only 2 more coats of epoxy, a primer and paint, oh and a layer of varnish ;)

Free board and beer in return  ;D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

 ;) I love working with composites :y

Most of my working career has been with composite aircraft structure....`not much marine, but there`s a cross-over in terms of substrate, lamina and matrices between aerospace and high-spec marine use these days.
`Just love the smell of resin and sanding dust! ;)


 :o :o :o I hope not!  Its pretty nasty stuff.  Plenty of boat builders have come a cropper as a result and many wood sawdust its not much better then asbestos..  (but why am I telling the oracle this.....?)

Not really doing substrates more a stitch and glue technique starting with 5 sheets of plywood.

This is the boat I am building :

http://www.boatplans.dk/boat_plans.asp?id=44

Upto the fairing part now, then primer then paint and varnish....

Anyone suggest names?

You like fishing, i take it you'll be using the boat for just that
"Gaffer's Gaff" a Gaff is a stick with a hook for landing fish
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: Gaffers on 25 May 2008, 19:21:07
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Quote
Quote
Quote
Reeeespect!!!  :y

Wanna help me coat the hull?  only 2 more coats of epoxy, a primer and paint, oh and a layer of varnish ;)

Free board and beer in return  ;D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

 ;) I love working with composites :y

Most of my working career has been with composite aircraft structure....`not much marine, but there`s a cross-over in terms of substrate, lamina and matrices between aerospace and high-spec marine use these days.
`Just love the smell of resin and sanding dust! ;)


 :o :o :o I hope not!  Its pretty nasty stuff.  Plenty of boat builders have come a cropper as a result and many wood sawdust its not much better then asbestos..  (but why am I telling the oracle this.....?)

Not really doing substrates more a stitch and glue technique starting with 5 sheets of plywood.

This is the boat I am building :

http://www.boatplans.dk/boat_plans.asp?id=44

Upto the fairing part now, then primer then paint and varnish....

Anyone suggest names?

You like fishing, i take it you'll be using the boat for just that
"Gaffer's Gaff" a Gaff is a stick with a hook for landing fish

Hmmmm I like it, any others?
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: Debs. on 25 May 2008, 19:21:58
 :y What a smashing project Gaffers......and not too large for your workshop....`should be a nicer handler out on the water too! ;)

Name suggestions: 'Water Nymph', 'Medicament' or 'Lady of the Lake'
Title: Re: A question for Dame Debs.....
Post by: Gaffers on 25 May 2008, 19:32:14
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:y What a smashing project Gaffers......and not too large for your workshop....`should be a nicer handler out on the water too! ;)

Name suggestions: 'Water Nymph', 'Medicament' or 'Lady of the Lake'

Cheers  :y   I like Medicament.  I am getting pressure from my peers to put the corps colour in the boat somewhere.....

I wanted to combine my two favourite hobbies salidioter flyfishing (tastes better than trout) and sailing plus I was married unaccompanied when I first came to germany and was sooo bored.  60 quids worth of plywood later and I was in business.  Later I would like to build a bigger boat to sail around the world but it will have to wait as the army sends me to pastures new every 2 years so its not practical. One day..............