Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: amba on 08 October 2013, 13:51:43
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Will be changing oil/filter in the next few days on 2003..3.2 and was wondering if there was any benefit to the OEM cartridge oil filter on the F/L than the cannister on the M/F/L.
Have both available along with the spigot pipe for the conversion to cannister ,but curious what advantage there was between the 2..naturally assuming the metal casing hasn,t been fitted by "The Hulk" in which case the question becomes irrelivant >:(
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The only advantage maybe that the cartridge is easier to remove .I have all the necessary bits to use if and when the cannister is no longer serviceable. :y
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Will be changing oil/filter in the next few days on 2003..3.2 and was wondering if there was any benefit to the OEM cartridge oil filter on the F/L than the cannister on the M/F/L.
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My 1999 MFL has a paper filter. My view re the two filters is .... if it aint broke - don't fix it. I've never had a problem with the ally casing
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Either do the job, but IME the paper element type is less messy than the spin-on, and don't dump hot oil on delicate crank sensors.
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The cartridge oil filter only becomes a problem when some moron has tightened it too tight. Usually tighter than the the hollow stud that holds the body to the engine block, so when oil changing the cap is so tight the whole body moves.... then you can break sometimes removing. .... it is then a cheaper option to get the stud for around £15 to fit the cannister type oill filter
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Hi Daz. :y
Good to see you back around again with your "pearls of wisdom" ;D
Just curious if there was an advantage either way..as I have the canister type fitted I will see how it comes off and go from there..although I do have the backup of the oil pipe and conversion if it gets messy ;)
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Just changed my oil again (only 4K!) it is a delight with the spin on compared to the cartridge I removed. You shouldn't get hot oil by the time you've drained the sump . Equally you should only get a few drips if you have waited for the sump to empty. The spin on is easier to remove - strap rather than spanner. The spin on can be half primed with fresh oil and you won't spill it when fitting. The spin on is less likely to leak, I've never had a spin on leak and my last cartridge leaked when done by National Disgrace. The spin on is much less likely to be over tightened and jam. The spin on is around half the price of the cartridge. The spin on is much less messy, just chuck the old one, no messing with replacing the paper. I suspect the spin on is a more effective filter. You cannot crush the paper when fitting a spin on unlike a cartridge.
Apart from that the cartridge is great. I have on for sale ;)
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You shouldn't get hot oil by the time you've drained the sump . Equally you should only get a few drips if you have waited for the sump to empty.
Cobblers
The spin on is easier to remove
Cobblers
The spin on is less likely to leak,
Cobblers
I've never had a spin on leak and my last cartridge leaked when done by National Disgrace. The spin on is much less likely to be over tightened and jam.
No part is infallible from retards incorrectly fitting it
The spin on is around half the price of the cartridge.
About 2/3rds, agree it is cheaper
The spin on is much less messy, just chuck the old one, no messing with replacing the paper.
The paper element is definately less messy to replace
I suspect the spin on is a more effective filter. You cannot crush the paper when fitting a spin on unlike a cartridge.
I would actually say that I think the paper element type is more effective than the spin on. Not quite sure how you can crush the paper element. But at least you can check the integrity of it before fitting.
Apart from that the cartridge is great.
I'm not fussed which is fitted. Both my Omegas have one of each. I have a slight preference to the paper element type, due to slightly less messy change, and the fact it doesn't soak the crank sensor in hot oil. But its not enough of an advantage to change the spin-on type - having them all the same is a stronger argument.
The Spin-on does have the advantage of being able to write on it the mileage and date of change (which caught out those lying retard bastards at Evans Halshaw in Milton Keynes ;D)
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TB runs back to bed to see if he can't fall out of the correct side next time he wakes up ;D
So you don't rate Evans Halshaw then ::)
Have a spin on fitted to mine, I doesn't leak either, and hopefully I should be able to undo it by hand, as I fitted it myself :y Haven't changed it yet, so can't comment either way on the rest of it :y
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Interesting views and comments,as always. :)
I intend doing an oil change this weekend so will see how the cannister behaves when I attempt to undo it. ;)
If it is damaged/or requires me damaging it to remove it I will fit the spigot pipe and convert car to cannister type and be done with.
If cannister removes as designed and appears intact I will refit with the new paper element and refit to the correct torque and accept car will continue with that type fitted.
Really more curious about the advantages either way ,which you guys have given me ...Thanks again :y
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TB runs back to bed to see if he can't fall out of the correct side next time he wakes up ;D
Sorry, I bit, as I often do when somebody talks complete, unadulterated 'dangle berries'. I am trying to fix that particular deficiency :-[
So you don't rate Evans Halshaw then ::)
There I offer no apologies. Useless, lying, retarded, breakless, wankstained retards. Thieves as well. Though I feel sorry for the Service Manager's mum, who clearly slept with a retard. 100m sperm in that shag, and that was the quickest?
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TB runs back to bed to see if he can't fall out of the correct side next time he wakes up ;D
Sorry, I bit, as I often do when somebody talks complete, unadulterated 'dangle berries'. I am trying to fix that particular deficiency :-[
So you don't rate Evans Halshaw then ::)
There I offer no apologies. Useless, lying, retarded, breakless, wankstained retards. Thieves as well. Though I feel sorry for the Service Manager's mum, who clearly slept with a retard. 100m sperm in that shag, and that was the quickest?
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That bad, huh. ;D ;D ;)
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TB runs back to bed to see if he can't fall out of the correct side next time he wakes up ;D
Sorry, I bit, as I often do when somebody talks complete, unadulterated 'dangle berries'. I am trying to fix that particular deficiency :-[
So you don't rate Evans Halshaw then ::)
There I offer no apologies. Useless, lying, retarded, breakless, wankstained retards. Thieves as well. Though I feel sorry for the Service Manager's mum, who clearly slept with a retard. 100m sperm in that shag, and that was the quickest?
That bad, huh. ;D ;D ;)
I think it's luck of the draw with all car dealers (NB. not just VX). I'm lucky enough to have two dealerships parts departments I use that I find very good - Lookers Yardley (Previously Elt Bros) and Bayliss Worcester. Both accept TC and both always helpful and happy to order in parts - Bayliss don't even ask me to pay or leave a deposit now - just pay on collection. :y
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TB runs back to bed to see if he can't fall out of the correct side next time he wakes up ;D
Sorry, I bit, as I often do when somebody talks complete, unadulterated 'dangle berries'. I am trying to fix that particular deficiency :-[
So you don't rate Evans Halshaw then ::)
There I offer no apologies. Useless, lying, retarded, breakless, wankstained retards. Thieves as well. Though I feel sorry for the Service Manager's mum, who clearly slept with a retard. 100m sperm in that shag, and that was the quickest?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
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Canister is not problematic once it's been undone by the owner and re fitted correctly. Then sensible oil change intervals are adopted. Problem seems to be when vx recommend 20k service interval, and vx techs over tighten them/refit them to the previously glued on tightness. By 20k the oil has cooked in the canister threads and glued the cap on. It doesn't require any special tools either.
There was a member on here not long ago reported his paper cartridge had been fitted arse backwards. So maybe that's an advantage the morons of this world will find in the spin on jobs.
I've had a few cartridges with bad threads that would not fit. Correct part. Wouldn't go on. Sigh....
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You shouldn't get hot oil by the time you've drained the sump . Equally you should only get a few drips if you have waited for the sump to empty.
Cobblers
I thought I was quite restrained in my original answer but obviously I wasn't clear enough. Only an idiot would remove the filter before draining the sump, letting the filter drain, and so letting the oil cool
The spin on is easier to remove
Cobblers
Anyone who thinks about it let alone does it will know a spin on is easier to remove than a cartridge.
The spin on is less likely to leak,
Cobblers
Well I've never had a spin on leak, yet a cartridge has.
I've never had a spin on leak and my last cartridge leaked when done by National Disgrace. The spin on is much less likely to be over tightened and jam.
No part is infallible from retards incorrectly fitting it
Its is almost impossive to screw up fitting a spin on
The spin on is around half the price of the cartridge.
About 2/3rds, agree it is cheaper
Just bought one for £1.86 delivered and inc VAT. What are you paying for the cartridges in trade club?
The spin on is much less messy, just chuck the old one, no messing with replacing the paper.
The paper element is definately less messy to replace
of course it's not, just think about it. Spin on - unspin and chuck. Cartridge - unbolt, remove oil soaked paper element, clean out inside, insert new paper element bolt back on without crushing the paper element.
I suspect the spin on is a more effective filter. You cannot crush the paper when fitting a spin on unlike a cartridge.
I would actually say that I think the paper element type is more effective than the spin on. Not quite sure how you can crush the paper element. But at least you can check the integrity of it before fitting.
There is at least one example on this forum of a paper element being crushed. Have you every bought a crushed spin on?
Apart from that the cartridge is great.
I'm not fussed which is fitted. Both my Omegas have one of each. I have a slight preference to the paper element type, due to slightly less messy change, and the fact it doesn't soak the crank sensor in hot oil. But its not enough of an advantage to change the spin-on type - having them all the same is a stronger argument.
The Spin-on does have the advantage of being able to write on it the mileage and date of change (which caught out those lying retard bastards at Evans Halshaw in Milton Keynes ;D)
You obviously are fussed. I would think a forum admin would come back with better answers than cobblers though. Why do you think members change from cartridge back to spin on?
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Because of rubbish post like your dbdb.
Bad advice IMO. There isn't enough of a difference to warrant messing about with it. Yet your telling somebody who has both as a direct comparison, that one is better than the other.
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Because of rubbish post like your dbdb.
Bad advice IMO. There isn't enough of a difference to warrant messing about with it. Yet your telling somebody who has both as a direct comparison, that one is better than the other.
Oh dear. I don't talk out my a**e and present it as gospel like a very few here often do, in my experience. I quote from my own experience and I explain why I think something. I don't just say cobblers or rubbish. I have had experience of 2 cartridges and 2 spins on with migs. My first had a spin on then a new engine with a cartridge, my second had a cartridge and I changed it back to spin on.
But while I'm at it there are a handful of t*****s on here, 3 that I know of, who love the sound of their own posts and will never entertain any different views. You are one, guess the other two. They will probably reply shortly. It's a shame because it puts new forum members off and makes OOF cliquey. This forum should be for exchanging experiences not shouting people down with 'cobblers' or 'rubbish'. And did I mention deleting posts without telling the poster?
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Because of rubbish post like your dbdb.
Bad advice IMO. There isn't enough of a difference to warrant messing about with it. Yet your telling somebody who has both as a direct comparison, that one is better than the other.
Oh dear. I don't talk out my a**e and present it as gospel like a very few here often do, in my experience. I quote from my own experience and I explain why I think something. I don't just say cobblers or rubbish. I have had experience of 2 cartridges and 2 spins on with migs. My first had a spin on then a new engine with a cartridge, my second had a cartridge and I changed it back to spin on.
But while I'm at it there are a handful of t*****s on here, 3 that I know of, who love the sound of their own posts and will never entertain any different views. You are one, guess the other two. They will probably reply shortly. It's a shame because it puts new forum members off and makes OOF cliquey. This forum should be for exchanging experiences not shouting people down with 'cobblers' or 'rubbish'. And did I mention deleting posts without telling the poster?
Rubbish, and as always, argumentative ;D I know who the other two are, and both of them are you ;D
And yes I saw that post deleted. No surprise what so ever. ;D you know better than that dbdb. ;D
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Somebody call ::)
Fwiw, I changed my cartridge filter simply because I got fed up trying to keep a socket on it long enough to undo it. Neither of them leak, but I cant speak for the rest of the engine ::) have yet to change the spin on one but expect to get a sleeveful of oil in the process ;D
Btw don't be so soft... TBs second post acknowledged the tone of his first :y
And now... Over to our correspondent in Ankara...
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I've had a few cartridges with bad threads that would not fit. Correct part. Wouldn't go on. Sigh....
Last one I did on the MV6 was like that. Luckily, I had another, as the removal tool had distorted the one I took off, so I couldn't have reused it :(
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You shouldn't get hot oil by the time you've drained the sump . Equally you should only get a few drips if you have waited for the sump to empty.
Cobblers
I thought I was quite restrained in my original answer but obviously I wasn't clear enough. Only an idiot would remove the filter before draining the sump, letting the filter drain, and so letting the oil cool
As the sump level is far lower than the filter, draining the sump will not affect the amount of oil held in the filter
The spin on is easier to remove
Cobblers
Anyone who thinks about it let alone does it will know a spin on is easier to remove than a cartridge.
Why? I disagree. I guess on your definition of "easier". But my definition is ease of doing the task.
The spin on is less likely to leak,
Cobblers
Well I've never had a spin on leak, yet a cartridge has.
Yet to see a cartridge leak. Seen a few spin on leak. Including one all over Marks DTM's driveway ::). I've started to avoid those ones which come in yellow boxes (Mann?), as I've had a couple of them leak (but on Rovers)
I've never had a spin on leak and my last cartridge leaked when done by National Disgrace. The spin on is much less likely to be over tightened and jam.
No part is infallible from retards incorrectly fitting it
Its is almost impossive to screw up fitting a spin on
Its bloody difficult to screw up any filter. Yet some manage it. As said, no part, no matter what, is infallible from retards fitting it.
The spin on is around half the price of the cartridge.
About 2/3rds, agree it is cheaper
Just bought one for £1.86 delivered and inc VAT. What are you paying for the cartridges in trade club?
Tradeclub website is down currently. However, back in June I bought a half box of each type, vof93 was £1.50, and cartridge was £2.10.
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The spin on is much less messy, just chuck the old one, no messing with replacing the paper.
The paper element is definately less messy to replace
of course it's not, just think about it. Spin on - unspin and chuck. Cartridge - unbolt, remove oil soaked paper element, clean out inside, insert new paper element bolt back on without crushing the paper element.
Cartridge, unbolt slightly, let drain, unbolt fully, remove cap withdrawing filter with cap. Replace o ring on cap. Yes, a whole 5 seconds longer. WOW!
As to crushing paper element, its simply not possible if fitted correctly. And its not hard to get it right, it will only fit one way.
*If* the element is damaged during manufacture, at least you can visually see it. For spin on, you can't see. I'd like to think they are all good, though.
I suspect the spin on is a more effective filter. You cannot crush the paper when fitting a spin on unlike a cartridge.
I would actually say that I think the paper element type is more effective than the spin on. Not quite sure how you can crush the paper element. But at least you can check the integrity of it before fitting.
There is at least one example on this forum of a paper element being crushed. Have you every bought a crushed spin on?
No, but I've had plenty of otherwise faulty ones, both GM and pattern. Yet to have a faulty cartridge type. There's still time, though.
Apart from that the cartridge is great.
I'm not fussed which is fitted. Both my Omegas have one of each. I have a slight preference to the paper element type, due to slightly less messy change, and the fact it doesn't soak the crank sensor in hot oil. But its not enough of an advantage to change the spin-on type - having them all the same is a stronger argument.
The Spin-on does have the advantage of being able to write on it the mileage and date of change (which caught out those lying retard bastards at Evans Halshaw in Milton Keynes ;D)
You obviously are fussed. I would think a forum admin would come back with better answers than cobblers though. Why do you think members change from cartridge back to spin on?
If I was fussed, don't you think I would have modified one (or other) of the cars, as I have 2 Omegas, which take both filter types.
You got the answers you did, as you've been preaching this 'dangle berries' at every opportunity. If people are happier or more comfortable with one type or other, thats fine. For the most part, I couldn't give a rats arse what you or other people do to their cars. But to falsely scare people into thinking they need to change it is wrong IMHO.
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Because of rubbish post like your dbdb.
Bad advice IMO. There isn't enough of a difference to warrant messing about with it. Yet your telling somebody who has both as a direct comparison, that one is better than the other.
Oh dear. I don't talk out my a**e and present it as gospel like a very few here often do, in my experience. I quote from my own experience and I explain why I think something. I don't just say cobblers or rubbish. I have had experience of 2 cartridges and 2 spins on with migs. My first had a spin on then a new engine with a cartridge, my second had a cartridge and I changed it back to spin on.
Oh really ;D
But while I'm at it there are a handful of t*****s on here, 3 that I know of, who love the sound of their own posts and will never entertain any different views. You are one, guess the other two. They will probably reply shortly. It's a shame because it puts new forum members off and makes OOF cliquey. This forum should be for exchanging experiences not shouting people down with 'cobblers' or 'rubbish'. And did I mention deleting posts without telling the poster?
And why do you think I deleted your posts? For fun? For some kind of massive ego trip? No, I deleted them BECAUSE YOU BROKE THE RULES. I'm sorry you find that so hard to deal with. But get over it.
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Because of rubbish post like your dbdb.
Bad advice IMO. There isn't enough of a difference to warrant messing about with it. Yet your telling somebody who has both as a direct comparison, that one is better than the other.
Oh dear. I don't talk out my a**e and present it as gospel like a very few here often do, in my experience. I quote from my own experience and I explain why I think something. I don't just say cobblers or rubbish. I have had experience of 2 cartridges and 2 spins on with migs. My first had a spin on then a new engine with a cartridge, my second had a cartridge and I changed it back to spin on.
Oh really ;D
But while I'm at it there are a handful of t*****s on here, 3 that I know of, who love the sound of their own posts and will never entertain any different views. You are one, guess the other two. They will probably reply shortly. It's a shame because it puts new forum members off and makes OOF cliquey. This forum should be for exchanging experiences not shouting people down with 'cobblers' or 'rubbish'. And did I mention deleting posts without telling the poster?
And why do you think I deleted your posts? For fun? For some kind of massive ego trip? No, I deleted them BECAUSE YOU BROKE THE RULES. I'm sorry you find that so hard to deal with. But get over it.
Argumentative nightwatchman - easter egg ;) ;)
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Since I have both, canisters on both 2.2's & cartridges on the V6s...
Neither have leaked. Although I have seen some slight evidence on my 2.2, it's very small could be dirt. Never seen it go down on the dip stick. Could be slight weeping.
On the cartridges, with a lightly greased rubber gasket, nipped up. (No room for torque wrench) They have never once leaked, nor displayed any signs.
The crushed paper element, as I recall had done stupid miles, no doubt a spin on would be in similar condition if visible.
2.2's are easier to change given location, V6s are in a less easy location ::)
Given where they are though, the paper one works well. I've never felt the need to convert it to a spin on. As it is, the ratchets only get a couple of clicks when releasing, I think a spin on tool remover would make things even worse.
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A properly fitted spin on needs no tools to undo :y
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Sorry I asked the question as it has caused a "heated debate"
For my own experience the cartridge top came off without any issues and replacing the element was a simple process.I have decided to retain the original fit filter the car was made with as it gave me no complications replacing it.
Will keep the spigot pipe and couple of spin on filters in stock just incaes things get difficult intime
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A properly fitted spin on needs no tools to undo :y
Never been able to do it without a tool on my 2.2
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A properly fitted spin on needs no tools to undo :y
Never been able to do it without a tool on my 2.2
Weetabix ;)
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A properly fitted spin on needs no tools to undo :y
Never been able to do it without a tool on my 2.2
Ah yes... But you're about 4 stone wet through and have the physique to match :-X
Us more "manly" OOFers can undo them by hand :P ;D
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You shouldn't get hot oil by the time you've drained the sump . Equally you should only get a few drips if you have waited for the sump to empty.
Cobblers
I thought I was quite restrained in my original answer but obviously I wasn't clear enough. Only an idiot would remove the filter before draining the sump, letting the filter drain, and so letting the oil cool
How did you come to that conclusion? The non return valve in the oil pump prevents the oil in the filter from draining back into the sump. ::)
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A properly fitted spin on needs no tools to undo :y
Never been able to do it without a tool on my 2.2
Weetabix ;)
;D
Hand tight plus one click of the wrist :y stout gloves required when removing though, as they can be a bit warm ::)
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Sorry I asked the question as it has caused a "heated debate"
For my own experience the cartridge top came off without any issues and replacing the element was a simple process.I have decided to retain the original fit filter the car was made with as it gave me no complications replacing it.
Will keep the spigot pipe and couple of spin on filters in stock just incaes things get difficult intime
Yes amba
<life of Brian voice on>. Your a very naughty boy. <off> ;)
A wise choice though. If it ain't broke... :y
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I've had both types and would not change what was on the car originally. My preference is for the cartridge as I find it less messy to drain a bit before fully undoing. The dribble of oil on the canister used to go a bit more awol
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A properly fitted spin on needs no tools to undo :y
Never been able to do it without a tool on my 2.2
Weetabix ;)
;D
Hand tight plus one click of the wrist :y stout gloves required when removing though, as they can be a bit warm ::)
I only put them on hand tight, but can never get them off. That said I've drained the sump, so got a little bit of oil on the gloves. Next time I might try cranking the spin on before draining the sump.
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That will get messy :y
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That will get messy :y
Only getting it going, just "cracked" enough so later on with oil covered gloves it spins off easily :)
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One advantage of the canister type is that its much easier to undo the oil cooler pipes if you need to.
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Sorry I asked the question as it has caused a "heated debate"
For my own experience the cartridge top came off without any issues and replacing the element was a simple process.I have decided to retain the original fit filter the car was made with as it gave me no complications replacing it.
Will keep the spigot pipe and couple of spin on filters in stock just incaes things get difficult intime
Thats what matters, amba :y
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One advantage of the canister type is that its much easier to undo the oil cooler pipes if you need to.
And as I said earlier, writing mileage/date on with permenent marker :)