Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Gaffers on 18 October 2013, 10:24:57
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I will be moving in to my new place shortly and one of the first jobs I have is to network the house using a Cisco switch. This will mean fitting wires around the house behind the plasterboard walls.
Doing this in the upstairs rooms will be fairly straight forward I believe as the gap will be accessible from the loft. My question is, will that gap continue all the way down to the ground floor or will I have to break the plasterboard to fit the conduits through a floor/barriers?
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My experience is that if the construction utilises a dob n dab plasterboard approach then you can feed such signal wires down behind the plasterboard on both floors.
As for a continuous gap, the answer is no, a partition wall is constructed after the first floor flooring is laid and hence it is not a continuous void.
You would have to lift boards on the first floor in order to deploy wires through to the ground floor.
Also be aware that there is likely to be some ground floor walls that are supporting (again i dob n dab you cna feed wires in between the block/brick and plasteroard)
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You'll probably find there will "noggins" in the plasterboard wall and the wall will have been built on top of the flooring , so you will probably have to "stitch" the cables through holes drilled everywhere, is there not an internal service duct you could feed the cables through?
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A couple of points here Guffer ......
The way that plasterboard/stud walls are constructed is that there will be horizontal braces fitted between the verticals. I think these are called "noggins" and there should be a couple of these within the height of the wall. They wont be in line with each other - but staggered to give extra strength. That means that any cable dropped from above will meet a Noggin within a couple of foot from the top.
All the upstairs stud walls I've seen have been built on top of the floor - that means that apart from the lower 4" x 2" of the wall frame there will then be the floor/ceiling before the lower wall starts.
I'm not in the trade, but have run lots of cables around houses - both as add ons and in new build where I had access to the inside of the stud wall prior to the plasterboard being fitted.
Another technique see's plasterboard bonded to a solid wall using dabs of material - this leaves a gap of about 1cm which can then be used for cables - with a bit of luck of course. Also hoping that nobody then hangs a picture and pierces the cable with a nail!
No easy answer I'm afraid as each installation will have its own foibles to contend with :'(
Good luck with the project ........
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I don't think it is dob n dab as the walls sound hollow when tapped and I do remember seeing through the window vertical braces being installed during the building process.
I hadn't thought about the 'noggins' and that is a fair point. In the kitchen I can hopefully use the conduit that leads to a telephone socket (not the master so no issues there) In the living room though we are going to be putting hte TV and media stuff on a wall which has just a power socket, so I will likely have to run an arial feed as well.
I am guessing for that it will mean taking a vertical slice of the plasterboard off, drilling all the holes required in the noggins and the ceiling/floor above and doing the same on the floor above to get it to the loft.....eugh
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A lot of modern build dont use wood for the partition constrcution (depends on the builder of course), they often use metal, these dont have the noggins but you will encounter a pressed metal plate you have to drill through first.
Also, following more recent building reg updates with respect to noise attenuation, you may also encounter insulation in the partitions to.
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hmmm good point. I think this is a job best done on a weekend when the missus is away ::)
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hmmm good point. I think this is a job best done on a weekend when the missus is away ::)
Take my approach.. just staple the big grey cable to the wall surface and say it's only temporary.. two years ago :-[ :-[
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hmmm good point. I think this is a job best done on a weekend when the missus is away ::)
Take my approach.. just staple the big grey cable to the wall surface and say it's only temporary.. two years ago :-[ :-[
I would but each socket is going to have 4 ethernet cables. The missus will be pretty upset with that ;D
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The easiest solution will be to slip the builders £20 and give them a couple of rolls of CAT5 to install when they buil..
Never mind. :-X
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The easiest solution will be to slip the builders £20 and give them a couple of rolls of CAT5 to install when they buil..
Never mind. :-X
They weren't open to that or a whole load of other small requests such as the carpet underlay, putting in a conduit for VirginMedia, etc, etc >:(
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Some friends of ours had a house built about 10 years ago and had the option of 2 CAT5 sockets in each room, brought back to a central patch panel, instead of a phone extension in each room.
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I dont know why developers arent offering more of it, it makes a lot of sense these days :-\
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I dont know why developers arent offering more of it, it makes a lot of sense these days :-\
Quite simple 99.9% of people will use wifi.
Do you feel 'special' ;D
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I dont know why developers arent offering more of it, it makes a lot of sense these days :-\
Quite simple 99.9% of people will use wifi.
Do you feel 'special' ;D
And when they do offer it, they usually do it wrong.. friend of mine moved into a new development that was 'flood wired' back to the 'utility cupboard' and couldn't figure out why one pair of ports didn't work..
Yes, that would be because, when you opened up an inconspicuous looking junction box, the pairs in the CAT5e were all joined together with a chocolate block.. ;D
(One of these, for anyone unfamiliar with 'choc block' - http://www.autosportlabs.org/files/choc_block_214.jpg )
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I dont know why developers arent offering more of it, it makes a lot of sense these days :-\
Quite simple 99.9% of people will use wifi.
Do you feel 'special' ;D
;D
No but I am important, I mean...don't you know who I am? ;D
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I'd say it's a lot more useful to have CAT 5 cabling than phone extensions everywhere, wi-fi or not. You can always route the phone to a CAT 5 socket if you do happen to need a wired phone elsewhere in the house.
But.. developers are only interested in finding the cheapest way to erect a box that meets the building regs. ::)
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although it does rather depend what you're doing with it, most domestic uses of CatV can be reliably achieved using the Ethernet over mains adaptors, frankly, a lot less hassle in most cases.....
if you start doing HD video editing and file serving, maybe you'll need CatV(orVI)I all round, but below that , for internet, and general media serving ethernet over mains is fine, (assuming you get decent units, not the £2 chinese fire hazards )
total time to install, about 10 minutes, set up time, less than that.....
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and i believe you can even now buy actual mains power wall socket plates with the facility built in......
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and i believe you can even now buy actual mains power wall socket plates with the facility built in......
It's not just as simple as setting up a network. I will be running several VLANs as well (VOIP, media, visitor, etc) so each point needs 2-3 sockets, hence the 4 I want to install in each location :y
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Humm I started reading this very hopeful, as I'm in a similar situation. I was hoping a Cat5 cable could just be dropped down nice and easy ::)
Can safely say I will be banned from lifting up floor boards to run cables, also to be honest, don't think I'd want to do it on a practically brand spankers build house :-[
Think I'm going to have to go wireless, with either an AP bolted to first floor celling, or go for one of those power plug networking things :(
If you need hand Matt, should be about hopefully. :y
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Think I'll be looking at something like this for internal internet, assuming you can hook one of these up to a switch :-\
http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-PA411KIT-AV500-Powerline-Adapter/dp/B0084Y9N3O/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1382175916&sr=1-1&keywords=power+plug+network (http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-PA411KIT-AV500-Powerline-Adapter/dp/B0084Y9N3O/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1382175916&sr=1-1&keywords=power+plug+network)
Lot's of positive reviews!
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If you need hand Matt, should be about hopefully. :y
I might well do that :y
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Dot & Dab is where dots of plaster are dabbed on to a blockwork wall before the sheets of plasterboard are stuck on. You may find this on the outside walls if the builder didn't want to use a traditional 2 layers of plaster.
Stud partitions might use either wooden or metal studs. Metal is the norm in commercial projects but not sure about housing :-\
The partition construction starts with a length of stud nailed to the floor (the floor plate) and another nailed to the ceiling. Vertical studs are then nailed (or screwed if metal) into place at 400mm centres. Noggins are inserted horizontally to go behind the joints between plasterboard sheets and to provide fixings for radiators, towel rails, wall cupboards etc. Plasterboard usually comes as 8'x4' (2440mm x 1220mm) sheets so expect to find a row of noggins 4 foot off the floor.
I would expect all UK houses to have the partitions packed with sound insulation.
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Humm I started reading this very hopeful, as I'm in a similar situation. I was hoping a Cat5 cable could just be dropped down nice and easy ::)
Can safely say I will be banned from lifting up floor boards to run cables, also to be honest, don't think I'd want to do it on a practically brand spankers build house :-[
Think I'm going to have to go wireless, with either an AP bolted to first floor celling, or go for one of those power plug networking things :(
If you need hand Matt, should be about hopefully. :y
You will almost certainly find that they aren't individual planks - as in old houses which come up easily, but large interlocking sheets of chipboard which then have the stud walls built upon them :'(. The only way to gain access is to use a circular saw (set to just over the chipboard thickness and slice your way through. Makes a real mess and you then have to support the edges for the section you have removed. A massive pain in the backside ..........
Good luck
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If your going to start lifting floor boards upstairs, it might be easier to to do the ground floor that way as well, depending on the build, sometimes easier to drop the cables down from above and then chase into the walls plasterboard than having to go all round the houses on the ground floor.
Also there are some clever trunking around these days for house cabling, ie, mini house dado trunking to replace skirting boards and cable coving for the ceiling areas.
Cat5e or 6 shouldn't be pulled tight, stretched, kinked or bent tight around corners, so plan and prepare all the routes before installation, for the sake of a few more pennies go the LSF cable (the purple stuff, low smoke, zero halogen) and make sure the termination is correct, keeping the twists together right down to punch down connections.
Chris. ;)
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If your going to start lifting floor boards upstairs, it might be easier to to do the ground floor that way as well, depending on the build, sometimes easier to drop the cables down from above and then chase into the walls plasterboard than having to go all round the houses on the ground floor.
Also there are some clever trunking around these days for house cabling, ie, mini house dado trunking to replace skirting boards and cable coving for the ceiling areas.
Cat5e or 6 shouldn't be pulled tight, stretched, kinked or bent tight around corners, so plan and prepare all the routes before installation, for the sake of a few more pennies go the LSF cable (the purple stuff, low smoke, zero halogen) and make sure the termination is correct, keeping the twists together right down to punch down connections.
Chris. ;)
Chances are on a new house they will use wayrock interlocking flooring , it comes in approx. 8'x2' sized sheets and is an absolute sod to get up , especially if they do it properly and glue the joints
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If you need to gain access in several places it might be worth using a router to cut circular access holes
http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/product/RBT_1/4/182/routabout_jig_18mm_x_14%22_shank_.html (http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/product/RBT_1/4/182/routabout_jig_18mm_x_14%22_shank_.html)
The router cuts a stepped edge. You then drop a plastic ring into the hole and the piece you cut out sits in the ring.
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Depending on your ceiling finish, it is sometimes easier to access 2nd storey underfloor areas via the ceiling beneath. Fairly simple to cut out a small section of plaster board, then replace and fill. this is even easier if you are going to fit coving later to cover the wall/ceiling join. I've used this ploy a few times in the past. :y
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Where you are local to me, I'm happy to give you a hand. I done quite a lot of cat 5 cable installation so have got a cable pull set, cable, stud locator, crimping tools, cable testers etc. Where the last job I did was a multi-point system in a hotel I've also got a couple boxes 305m (1000ft) of the purple 100mHz cat 5e cable, which I'm happy to bring one round for you to use as they are just sitting in my
junk room spare bedroom.
I also have experience of cutting and lifting flooring sheets and other challenging ways I've had to run cables, through ceiling coving etc. I would think being a modern build it will have timber or metal stud work that will be full of insulation material. The best way with this is normally to drill through the top plate, locate the noggin, by tapping the wall, using a stud detector or seeing how far your cable puller will go in before it hits it, then drill shallow angled holes either side and through the noggin, then feed the cable pull through to where the hole is for the plasterboard box and surface socket, then it is just a case of connecting the cable to the cable pull and pulling through. This method minimises the work required to reinstate the wall.
As somebody stated earlier no kinking of cables, all bends must be a minimum of 25mm and the absolute minimum of undoing the twisted pair as they rely on any external electrical interference being equal on both cables and therefore cancelling each other out.
When cutting flooring sheets for access, set the circular saw to the depth of the flooring sheet, make sure the circular saw does not kickback as you start the cut (as it will try to) although the slow start saws are better for this. a flooring hand saw for use by the walls and when putting the flooring sheet back screw a 2" by 1" batten underneath that goes across the joint to stop the flooring sheets flexing.
I would suggest that you use either an estate agents flooring plan or other plan to mark exactly where the cable runs are in each room, that way when you have forgotten in the future (we all do), you have it for reference for when you go to hang that new picture! You can then also pass it on to the new occupants if or when you sell the house.
Any additional networking materials you can alway get locally by opening a trade account at CMS, Hawley Lane, Farnborough. Not the cheapest, but very useful when you need bits straightway.
Where you want 4 sockets per room, where there are 4 twisted pairs in the cable, you can do 2 sockets with each cable. I've also found these useful at times to make maximum use of a cable:
http://www.cmsplc.com/structured-wiring/base-tsplitters.html (http://www.cmsplc.com/structured-wiring/base-tsplitters.html)
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A cautionary note when cutting floorboards...
Don't assume that any pipework beneath the floor is actually below the boards ::) when our house was built, they very thoughtfully channelled one board to sit flush where the pipe was a bit high >:( Only discovered when the circular saw that I had set at board thickness went straight through the top of a heating pipe :-[
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If you need to gain access in several places it might be worth using a router to cut circular access holes
http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/product/RBT_1/4/182/routabout_jig_18mm_x_14%22_shank_.html (http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/product/RBT_1/4/182/routabout_jig_18mm_x_14%22_shank_.html)
The router cuts a stepped edge. You then drop a plastic ring into the hole and the piece you cut out sits in the ring.
That gizmo looks fantastic.. my folks new place is all chipboard flooring sheets upstairs and my Dad's bound to need to be in there sooner or later. Perfect christmas present..