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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Jusme on 04 January 2014, 16:30:19

Title: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: Jusme on 04 January 2014, 16:30:19
Lovely set of wheels ready to go on. Struggled like 'bug*ery to undo the bolts on the first wheel. Had my 18" breaker bar slotted into a 3' metal pole. Done first one. Move to back. Split socket on first bolt, have now bent my speed brace, not an ounce of movement from any bolt. ' What the hell do they gun these up at'?????? Rear tyre is torn and flat as the proverbial.... 'HELP'..  :(
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: kevinp58 on 04 January 2014, 16:33:24
Have you got any impact sockets if so put a shortish bar on them and use a Hammer to shock it lose.  :y Try that it should do it.
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: Jusme on 04 January 2014, 16:37:50
Thanks Kevin, problem, short on tools. Suppose I could try hammering with another socket and short extension?? It'll have to wait till morning. Soaking wet and cold.. brrrrrr. :(
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: kevinp58 on 04 January 2014, 16:53:25
Thanks Kevin, problem, short on tools. Suppose I could try hammering with another socket and short extension?? It'll have to wait till morning. Soaking wet and cold.. brrrrrr. :(





You could try that but watch you don't round the nuts off it would be better if you could get one or a hexagonal socket instead of the usual 12 pointed ones I think Halfrauds should do sockets separately.  :y
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: YZ250 on 04 January 2014, 17:11:57
If I come across tight one's, I use the extending bar with the 17/19mm hex combi socket on. Never let me down yet and cheap enough to buy. It has succeeded easily where my wheel spider has failed, as the socket has a decent wall thickness and the bar gives good leverage. I'd stick with just socket and bar/breaker to avoid any twist on the socket.
I use a torque wrench to tighten mine but you'd be surprised how tight some people do them up.
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 04 January 2014, 17:34:37
Hi Rob,

I've just checked before replying.

I have a "proper" hex wheel socket and an extension bar which is a section of scaffold pole.  :y

More than happy to pop round tomorrow. Am busy in the morning, so will have to be early afternoon if that's ok?

I've also got a trolly-jack.

Thanks - Rob
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 January 2014, 18:07:14
Hi Rob,

I've just checked before replying.

I have a "proper" hex wheel socket and an extension bar which is a section of scaffold pole.  :y

More than happy to pop round tomorrow. Am busy in the morning, so will have to be early afternoon if that's ok?

I've also got a trolly-jack.

Thanks - Rob

OOF spirit rides again  :y :y :y

Re the tightness of the nuts, as already mentioned, use a 6 point socket and don't be afraid to use your girth.......standing on your breaker bar  ;)

They should be nowhere near that tight. Who on Earth did them up that tight?  :o
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: terry paget on 04 January 2014, 18:08:42
Hi Jusme,
            I find more often than not when I buy a car on e-bay that the wheels will not come off. They have been hammered on by a tyre shop and not been off for several years.

First job is to get the bolts out. I have a compressor, a big impact wrench and a 17mm black impact hexagonal socket. If there any security bolts I replace them with standard bolts. Next job is to get the wheels off, if alloys they are often rusted on. For any such wheels, I put back the bolts, slacken them half a turn, then go for a two mile drive. That heaves them loose. Then home again, wheels off, wire brush and grease the hubs, put back the wheels and bolts, and torque them up to 110Nm. Check spare is roadworthy and inflated, and there is a decent jack with the car. Add an extensible wheel nut lever with 177mm hex socket. Torch can be handy too. Then I can face the first puncture with confidence.
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 04 January 2014, 18:10:47
Hi Rob,

I've just checked before replying.

I have a "proper" hex wheel socket and an extension bar which is a section of scaffold pole.  :y

More than happy to pop round tomorrow. Am busy in the morning, so will have to be early afternoon if that's ok?

I've also got a trolly-jack.

Thanks - Rob

OOF spirit rides again  :y :y :y

Re the tightness of the nuts, as already mentioned, use a 6 point socket and don't be afraid to use your girth.......standing on your breaker bar  ;)

They should be nowhere near that tight. Who on Earth did them up that tight?  :o

I'm a bit more tubby than Rob is  :y
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: omega3000 on 04 January 2014, 18:13:28
Take car to garage and windy gun them off for a few quid , then tighten them up by hand  :y Bloody windy guns in the wrong hands  ::)
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 January 2014, 18:19:59
Hi Rob,

I've just checked before replying.

I have a "proper" hex wheel socket and an extension bar which is a section of scaffold pole.  :y

More than happy to pop round tomorrow. Am busy in the morning, so will have to be early afternoon if that's ok?

I've also got a trolly-jack.

Thanks - Rob

OOF spirit rides again  :y :y :y

Re the tightness of the nuts, as already mentioned, use a 6 point socket and don't be afraid to use your girth.......standing on your breaker bar  ;)

They should be nowhere near that tight. Who on Earth did them up that tight?  :o

I'm a bit more tubby than Rob is  :y

 ;D Me too mate.... 18.5 stones after Christmas. Grrrr ;)
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: Jusme on 04 January 2014, 18:27:17
Thanks for replies lads, would have shot round to tyre shop EMD.. But! Rear tyre is torn and flat as the proverbial
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: kevinp58 on 04 January 2014, 18:47:01
Just a little add when you do get them off put some copper grease on threads abd on the rear of wheels where they mount the hubs.  8) that will assist when you need to take them off next time.  :y :y :y
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: chrisgixer on 04 January 2014, 23:43:34
Just a little add when you do get them off put some copper grease on threads abd on the rear of wheels where they mount the hubs.  8) that will assist when you need to take them off next time.  :y :y :y

...and more importantly, on refitting torque them to 110nm. Any tyre shop that just windys up wheel nuts, kick up. Speak to the manager, complain, refuse to use etc.

Windy off fine, windy on loosely, fine, but they should always be torqued correctly to 110nm for the final tighten, and the opposite bolt next, with the locking wheel nut last.

...unless a certain admin distracts you from doing your side to help him do his of course, then forgetting the final torque is absolutely fine. ;D
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: martin42 on 05 January 2014, 01:51:48
Hi Jusme,
            I find more often than not when I buy a car on e-bay that the wheels will not come off. They have been hammered on by a tyre shop and not been off for several years.

First job is to get the bolts out. I have a compressor, a big impact wrench and a 17mm black impact hexagonal socket. If there any security bolts I replace them with standard bolts. Next job is to get the wheels off, if alloys they are often rusted on. For any such wheels, I put back the bolts, slacken them half a turn, then go for a two mile drive. That heaves them loose. Then home again, wheels off, wire brush and grease the hubs, put back the wheels and bolts, and torque them up to 110Nm. Check spare is roadworthy and inflated, and there is a decent jack with the car. Add an extensible wheel nut lever with 177mm hex socket. Torch can be handy too. Then I can face the first puncture with confidence.
oppsing hell 177mm hex socket,what size tyre are you changing??
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: Jusme on 05 January 2014, 09:42:09
Totally agree Chris. Gun set to 'max' to undo nuts, then just reversed to "SLAM" them back on.  >:( But I can imagine at many of the tyre shops I have visited saying to the spotty gorilla, 'could you torque those to 110nm please', getting a reply along the lines of.. 'WASSAT' ??  ::)
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: chrisgixer on 05 January 2014, 09:44:16
Totally agree Chris. Gun set to 'max' to undo nuts, then just reversed to "SLAM" them back on.  >:( But I can imagine at many of the tyre shops I have visited saying to the spotty gorilla, 'could you torque those to 110nm please', getting a reply along the lines of.. 'WASSAT' ??  ::)

Don't use them.
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: mrgreen on 05 January 2014, 16:40:48
we had an Audi in the shop a few months back which we had to weld bolts onto every security nut to get them off and even then they took 1 1/2 hours of pain to get them off, i swear by a bit of copper grease or high heat aluminium grease on the hubs and studs, makes my life easier next time the car comes in, this is just pure idiots with ratchet guns and more often than not the last workshop they were at would be the dealers charging them €120 an hour. I know most dealers are the same but VW gets my Goat!!! rip off bastards don't buy one (rant over!)
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: robson on 05 January 2014, 17:01:34
I thought that the torque figure was for dry studs.If lubricated wont they tighten passed the recommended figure
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: mrgreen on 06 January 2014, 18:46:19
I thought that the torque figure was for dry studs.If lubricated wont they tighten passed the recommended figure

it's recommended to oil studs with thin oil but this won't effect the torque value, the problem with over torqueing is you stretch the stud losing the tensile spring in it.
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: kcl on 07 January 2014, 11:53:48
Overtightening also stretches the bolt holes on steel rims as the cone of the bolt goes "deeper" in the hole...

It is very easy to overtighten wheel nuts/bolts and lots of people are, for no reason at all, afraid of bolts coming loose. But how often have you really seen or experienced a passanger car to loosen wheel bolts so that the wheel is in danger to come off? "Never", I assume, is the most common answer.

A wheel under any passanger car is more than secured to stay on with three to five bolts/studs while only one would be enough in sense of strength. And when tightening bolts to 110 Nm or similar figures they are quite tight. These figures are only made to make sure after making sure that the bolts will stay put. More important than exact torque figure is that all bolts are equally tight. And I'm sure some 60 Nm will do as well; if the thread is clean and in condition it will keep tight.

So, in a nutshell, do not overtighten wheel bolts and if you do not have a torque wrench just tighten them by hand: equally tight and when the wheel is "settled" on its place just a quarter of a turn tighter and you have reached close to 100 Nm more or less which is more than enough. Some car manufacturers specify only 80 Nm.
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: robson on 07 January 2014, 13:37:25
Should alloy and steel wheels have the  same torque value. I have heard that overtightening alloys can cause damage.
Title: Re: New wheels, but can't get old off??
Post by: kcl on 07 January 2014, 13:40:37
Should alloy and steel wheels have the  same torque value. I have heard that overtightening alloys can cause damage.

Value is the same. Overtightening will damage alloys too, they tend to crack rather than yield as steel ones.