Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: terry paget on 19 January 2014, 12:28:32
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OE03 EWW 3.2 petrol manual saloon
Clutch job. Gearbox is detached from block but seems stuck on splines. Picture below. How should I proceed?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9pq7snkdird8dux/GEARBOXSTUCK.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/9pq7snkdird8dux/GEARBOXSTUCK.jpg)
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Leaving the jack where it is, grab the box from behind by the exhaust brackets and give it a tug whilst jiggling it...
If you jack it another half inch to ensure it's taking all the weight and make sure that your feet are sticking out from under the rear bumper so the you are jiggling/pulling with your arms at a stretch above you.
This is simply because the box may well roll of the jack and I won't have someone dropping a gearbox on their head on my account :y
The box is heavier than it looks btw...
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Leaving the jack where it is, grab the box from behind by the exhaust brackets and give it a tug whilst jiggling it...
If you jack it another half inch to ensure it's taking all the weight and make sure that your feet are sticking out from under the rear bumper so the you are jiggling/pulling with your arms at a stretch above you.
This is simply because the box may well roll of the jack and I won't have someone dropping a gearbox on their head on my account :y
The box is heavier than it looks btw...
Thanks, Al. I don't think I have done anything wrong, and it's moved an inch or so. I wonder if the splines beyond where the friction plate runs are rusty. I am inclined to attach a rope to the rear bracket and pull on that. If that fails attach it to the my estate and jerk it with that.
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A couple of taps with a modest club hammer on the exhaust bracket should suffice ::)
At least if you pull it out with another car you won't be underneath it :o ;D
I know somethings on the Omega require will power and wishful thinking, but none of it is glued together by magic :y
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Carefull you don't pull the entire car off the stands. Steady steady.
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What symptoms prompted the clutch replacement? (slipping? not releasing? crunching noises?)
Most likely is rust on the splines where they didn't get any action. Pushing the box back and forth a few times ought to overcome that
If the clutch centre has broken it might be canting over and catching (a bit like the action of an inertia real seatbelt). Repeated gentle attempts, (& maybe raising/lowering the tail of the box) should eventually get it out.
I won't insult your intelligence by asking if you have disconnected the gear change linkage and hydraulic hose :-[........
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This clutch has slipped on and off for the last four years. It is now bad.
I have disconnected the gear linkage, and the rod is hanging down clear of the lever foot. I have disconnected the hydraulic pipe at the master cylinder..
I have attached a rope to the exhaust support bracket and heaved on it. Trouble there is the rope is elastic, and I feel I am pulling against the clutch springs. It needs a jerk or an impact to free it. Glad Andy agrees that rust on unused spline section is likely cause.
I am sensible of the danger of pulling the car off the axle stands if I use the estate to heave. The rear wheels are chocked, handbrake is hard on, and I can put ramps under the front wheels to minimise danger. It would still leave the jack under the gearbox.
There is about an inch gap between crankcase and gearbox.
Wife and I have tried rocking car in and out, me pulling the jack handle forward, she pulling the rope back. All we achieved was to move the jack base forward under the gearbox.
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Keep jiggling, it will come out :y
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Keep jiggling, it will come out :y
Might do. Trouble seems to be the gap remains at one inch. All we are doing is flex the clutch springs. I feel it needs a big jerk to yank it through the rusty splines section.
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Push it back in half an inch and take a run up, as it were :y
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Push it back in half an inch and take a run up, as it were :y
Good idea. I am not sure I can push it back in. I might be able to get a bolt in and pull it back in. I will try.
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No joy. I cannot push it back in or hammer it back in. I have not any bolts long enough to pull it back in. The prop shaft bolts look similar, but they are a different pitch. It si well and truly stuck.
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Just have to keep wiggling it,it will come out :y
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This clutch has slipped on and off for the last four years. It is now bad.
I have disconnected the gear linkage, and the rod is hanging down clear of the lever foot. I have disconnected the hydraulic pipe at the master cylinder..
I have attached a rope to the exhaust support bracket and heaved on it. Trouble there is the rope is elastic, and I feel I am pulling against the clutch springs. It needs a jerk or an impact to free it. Glad Andy agrees that rust on unused spline section is likely cause.
I am sensible of the danger of pulling the car off the axle stands if I use the estate to heave. The rear wheels are chocked, handbrake is hard on, and I can put ramps under the front wheels to minimise danger. It would still leave the jack under the gearbox.
There is about an inch gap between crankcase and gearbox.
Wife and I have tried rocking car in and out, me pulling the jack handle forward, she pulling the rope back. All we achieved was to move the jack base forward under the gearbox.
When I took my box out I think I also removed a steel plate that connects the back of the gearbox to the base of the gear lever surround :-\ never really worked out if it was absolutely necessary to remove it or whether I should have been able to tie it up out of the way :-\ :-\
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I leave it in, but it can snag on the top of the box... although there's more than enough movement on it to nudge it out of the way should the need arise :y
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Terry have you tried levering it with a pry bar or similar :-\
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This clutch has slipped on and off for the last four years. It is now bad.
I have disconnected the gear linkage, and the rod is hanging down clear of the lever foot. I have disconnected the hydraulic pipe at the master cylinder..
I have attached a rope to the exhaust support bracket and heaved on it. Trouble there is the rope is elastic, and I feel I am pulling against the clutch springs. It needs a jerk or an impact to free it. Glad Andy agrees that rust on unused spline section is likely cause.
I am sensible of the danger of pulling the car off the axle stands if I use the estate to heave. The rear wheels are chocked, handbrake is hard on, and I can put ramps under the front wheels to minimise danger. It would still leave the jack under the gearbox.
There is about an inch gap between crankcase and gearbox.
Wife and I have tried rocking car in and out, me pulling the jack handle forward, she pulling the rope back. All we achieved was to move the jack base forward under the gearbox.
When I took my box out I think I also removed a steel plate that connects the back of the gearbox to the base of the gear lever surround :-\ never really worked out if it was absolutely necessary to remove it or whether I should have been able to tie it up out of the way :-\ :-\
I have had a look. It does indeed seem to be attached to gearbox at front and body at gearstick base. Pictures follow.https://www.dropbox.com/s/5mf7d6bu3qiy95v/gbPLATEfront.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5mf7d6bu3qiy95v/gbPLATEfront.jpg)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bqqwh7dz5upb9uh/gbPLATErear.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/bqqwh7dz5upb9uh/gbPLATErear.jpg)
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That's why it won't budge ::)
Remove the two bolts that run horizontally forward above the prop out put, the push the plate up, it should spring forward as the box is out.
Should then drop out :y
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Haynes said 7a.4 11 On all models slacken and remove the two bolts securing the rear of the transmission ubit to the upper mounting bracket. I did not understand that, so did not do it. It is not mentioned in the OOF maintenance guide.
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I only followed the Haynes guide tbh... I freely admit I haven't read the guide on here :-[
Guess that bit got overlooked when James did the gearbox swap as I suspect it was fitted as a single complete lump, gear lever and all :-\
Keep at it, though, you'll have it out and the clutch stripped before tea if that's all that was stopping you :y
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If you dont have any luck can you make up a stretcher from a couple of bolts and spread it apart but a crow bar should do the same.
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No joy. I cannot push it back in or hammer it back in. I have not any bolts long enough to pull it back in. The prop shaft bolts look similar, but they are a different pitch. It si well and truly stuck.
I think you have probably pulled the splined shaft out of the clutch centre but because the steel plate is still in place everything is now under compression.
Put the gearbox into gear (4th or 5th) and waggle the output spider until the splines re-engage and allow the gearbox to move forward again.
undo the two bolts on the support plate and push it up out of the way and the gearbox should be out before you know it (take care it doesn't catch you by surprise)
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No joy. I cannot push it back in or hammer it back in. I have not any bolts long enough to pull it back in. The prop shaft bolts look similar, but they are a different pitch. It si well and truly stuck.
I think you have probably pulled the splined shaft out of the clutch centre but because the steel plate is still in place everything is now under compression.
Put the gearbox into gear (4th or 5th) and waggle the output spider until the splines re-engage and allow the gearbox to move forward again.
undo the two bolts on the support plate and push it up out of the way and the gearbox should be out before you know it (take care it doesn't catch you by surprise)
Should fall out with that plate now unbolted... :y
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No joy. I cannot push it back in or hammer it back in. I have not any bolts long enough to pull it back in. The prop shaft bolts look similar, but they are a different pitch. It si well and truly stuck.
I think you have probably pulled the splined shaft out of the clutch centre but because the steel plate is still in place everything is now under compression.
Put the gearbox into gear (4th or 5th) and waggle the output spider until the splines re-engage and allow the gearbox to move forward again.
undo the two bolts on the support plate and push it up out of the way and the gearbox should be out before you know it (take care it doesn't catch you by surprise)
I put it into fifth gear, but could not turn the spider.
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Splines still in place then... is that plate now unbolted?
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That's why it won't budge ::)
Remove the two bolts that run horizontally forward above the prop out put, the push the plate up, it should spring forward as the box is out.
Should then drop out :y
I have removed the two horizontal bolts pointing forward connecting the plate with the gearbox and the plate sprang up. But the gearbox is still stuck.
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Tap the sides of the pressure plate with a suitable implement and keep jiggling. Don't know what else to suggest beyond emptying a can of plusgas as high as you can into the gap between the box and engine from both sides, hoping some gets to the input shaft overnight and start fresh in the morning :-\
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Tap the sides of the pressure plate with a suitable implement and keep jiggling. Don't know what else to suggest beyond emptying a can of plusgas as high as you can into the gap between the box and engine from both sides, hoping some gets to the input shaft overnight and start fresh in the morning :-\
I cannot see the pressure plate to hit it. I cannot get Plus Gas around here, no-one stocks it. One of the axle stands is now standing on two legs, looks dodgy. Trouble is my jack is under the gearbox. This job is getting out of hand. I will try to make things safe and leave it overnight while we all think about it. I still do not understand it.
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Tap the sides of the pressure plate with a suitable implement and keep jiggling. Don't know what else to suggest beyond emptying a can of plusgas as high as you can into the gap between the box and engine from both sides, hoping some gets to the input shaft overnight and start fresh in the morning :-\
I cannot see the pressure plate to hit it. I cannot get Plus Gas around here, no-one stocks it. One of the axle stands is now standing on two legs, looks dodgy. Trouble is my jack is under the gearbox. This job is getting out of hand. I will try to make things safe and leave it overnight while we all think about it. I still do not understand it.
Ah ok, I hadn't allowed for the depth of the flywheel...
Lower the jack and use it to reposition that axle stand before you do ANYTHING else. Hanging free for a couple of minutes won't hurt anything, and might actually see the box out.
Sorry I can't do owt else remotely :-\
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Thanks to all for their help and suggestions. I do not think anything is broken, though the gearbox is still stuck on for some reason. I do not understand why it is still stuck. I expect in the morning someone will crack it.
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Trust you've re set that axle stand :-\
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Trust you've re set that axle stand :-\
Oh yes. I found an old twin screw jack that I put under the gearbox, retrieved the trolley jack, relifted the right hand side and reset the axle stand. All is safe now.
'Tis indeed a mystery. Has it never happened before on clutch changes, I wonder? Has no-one else followed the clutch change maintenance guide? Time will tell.
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Trust you've re set that axle stand :-\
Oh yes. I found an old twin screw jack that I put under the gearbox, retrieved the trolley jack, relifted the right hand side and reset the axle stand. All is safe now.
'Tis indeed a mystery. Has it never happened before on clutch changes, I wonder? Has no-one else followed the clutch change maintenance guide? Time will tell.
:y
As said no issue with Haynes for this, there's no 'cheat' method, just undo that which needs undoing and out comes the box :-\ it does take some jiggling, but first time shouldn't take more than four hours to methodically dismantle it... provided the car plays ball... surely as a traffic car it must have had at least two clutch changes...
Unless the last person screwed it up. :-\
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Keeping the box square to the engine is important. Due to the weight of the engine and gearbox it is difficult to feel when they are lined up. When they are lined up they slide together/apart easily
My guess is that it will slide out without a fuss at the next attempt.
If it doesn't then I would still expect rust on the splines to be the cause. If not that then the only other thing I can think of is that the void bush may have picked up and seized on the end of the input shaft :-\
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Keeping the box square to the engine is important. Due to the weight of the engine and gearbox it is difficult to feel when they are lined up. When they are lined up they slide together/apart easily
My guess is that it will slide out without a fuss at the next attempt.
If it doesn't then I would still expect rust on the splines to be the cause. If not that then the only other thing I can think of is that the void bush may have picked up and seized on the end of the input shaft :-\
I hope it slides out next attempt without fuss. I will endeavour to see it is square to the engine. I did try levering engine and gearbox apart, but they always looked pretty square.
It's odd that it will not go back in either.
What is the void bush?
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Trust you've re set that axle stand :-\
Oh yes. I found an old twin screw jack that I put under the gearbox, retrieved the trolley jack, relifted the right hand side and reset the axle stand. All is safe now.
'Tis indeed a mystery. Has it never happened before on clutch changes, I wonder? Has no-one else followed the clutch change maintenance guide? Time will tell.
:y It has had four clutches, at 33971, 49275, 72517 and 116350 miles. It has now covered 185000 miles. I admit today I screwed it up, but do not understand why it is still stuck now that I have removed the two screws between the upper plate and the tail of the gearbox.
As said no issue with Haynes for this, there's no 'cheat' method, just undo that which needs undoing and out comes the box :-\ it does take some jiggling, but first time shouldn't take more than four hours to methodically dismantle it... provided the car plays ball... surely as a traffic car it must have had at least two clutch changes...
Unless the last person screwed it up. :-\
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Keeping the box square to the engine is important. Due to the weight of the engine and gearbox it is difficult to feel when they are lined up. When they are lined up they slide together/apart easily
My guess is that it will slide out without a fuss at the next attempt.
If it doesn't then I would still expect rust on the splines to be the cause. If not that then the only other thing I can think of is that the void bush may have picked up and seized on the end of the input shaft :-\
I hope it slides out next attempt without fuss. I will endeavour to see it is square to the engine. I did try levering engine and gearbox apart, but they always looked pretty square.
It's odd that it will not go back in either.
What is the void bush?
The bearing in the end of the crankshaft that the gearbox input shaft runs in.
It could be either a bronze bush or a needle roller bearing but I can't remember which the Omega uses :-\
PS can't remember where I got the word 'void' from. Probably not the correct name :-\
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can't remember where I got the word 'void' from.
Rear upper suspension arms on the Mark 3,4 & 5 Cortinas perchance :)
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If you dont have any luck can you make up a stretcher from a couple of bolts and spread it apart but a crow bar should do the same.
Please expand. I have tried tyre levers, to no avail. I have pulled ropes, no avail. Trouble is I feel all I am doing is compressing the clutch spring. Once I release it pops back to where I started. Some form of screw or expander might impress it.I could not imagine how to make one
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Is the box far enough out to get too the pressure plate bolts, if so undo them and take the box and clutch out together.
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You may not have enough room but if you can get a bolt or stud screwed into the engine with a nut in the gap between engine and gearbox leaving a space for movement at the gearbox end then you can spread the gap with the nut against the gear box. Hope that makes sense. There are avaiable very small hydraulic jacks for small gaps, Best of luck I think you could do with help from a local OOf member.
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Mine didn't have anything fitted to the end of the input shaft :-\ so can't help with that either :-\
Does the box rotate around the input shaft?
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Mine didn't have anything fitted to the end of the input shaft :-\ so can't help with that either :-\
Does the box rotate around the input shaft?
The bush should be a nice snug fit in the end of the crankshaft - if it comes out on the end of the input shaft then there is something wrong...... (but something odd has happened which is why I mentioned it as a remote possibility)
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You may not have enough room but if you can get a bolt or stud screwed into the engine with a nut in the gap between engine and gearbox leaving a space for movement at the gearbox end then you can spread the gap with the nut against the gear box. Hope that makes sense. There are avaiable very small hydraulic jacks for small gaps, Best of luck I think you could do with help from a local OOf member.
I don't feel comfortable forcing something that shouldn't need to be forced. :-\
I would try to get gearbox and engine back together again and then slide the box in and out to free up the splines.
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You guys talking about the pilot bushing? :)
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You may not have enough room but if you can get a bolt or stud screwed into the engine with a nut in the gap between engine and gearbox leaving a space for movement at the gearbox end then you can spread the gap with the nut against the gear box. Hope that makes sense. There are avaiable very small hydraulic jacks for small gaps, Best of luck I think you could do with help from a local OOf member.
I don't feel comfortable forcing something that shouldn't need to be forced. :-\
I would try to get gearbox and engine back together again and then slide the box in and out to free up the splines.The question is how to get it back together again. At the moment there is a one inch
h gap all round, and it resists being pushed back together. What I need is some longer bolts. The larger bolts are 19mm AF hexagon heads, 52.5mm long, 10.49mm diameter and 1.75mm pitch. The smaller bolts are 13mm AF hexagon head, 38.5mm long, 7.86mm diameter 1.25mm pitch. With some longer bolts I could attempt to pull the gearbox and block together again.I cannot jiggle the gearbox back into the the block.
I do not understand what has happened. I appreciate that with the plate connecting gearbox to body the gearbox could not come off. But now I have removed the nuts connecting plate to gearbox it should be free to pull off. Maybe it is alignment, maybe it stopped on the rusty end of the splines and is stuck there.
Given some endless thread of the right variety, or some long bolts and nuts, I could force g/b and block apart. But it should not need forcing, should it?
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Just a thought but have you lowered the jack while removing the gearbox? When I changed the box on my Senator as I was drawing the box out I had to lower the jack slightly each time as the engine and box are pointing slightly down, without doing this the box would jam on the splines and it`s the same going in, you have to get it just right.
Don`t know about the Omega but the Senator had a needle roller bearing ( spigot bearing ) and being almost the same box then it may be the same.
Hope this helps.
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You guys talking about the pilot bushing? :)
Spigot bush innit :D
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Just a thought but have you lowered the jack while removing the gearbox? When I changed the box on my Senator as I was drawing the box out I had to lower the jack slightly each time as the engine and box are pointing slightly down, without doing this the box would jam on the splines and it`s the same going in, you have to get it just right.
Don`t know about the Omega but the Senator had a needle roller bearing ( spigot bearing ) and being almost the same box then it may be the same.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for that. No, I did not know that the angle was critical, I presumed if I pushed the jack back supporting the disconnected gearbox it would separate from the engine, allowing me to lower the jack and extract the gearbox sideways. It did not work out that way.
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Don`t forget that the front of the car is jacked up too so the engine is pointing downwards and your trolley jack is trying to move in a horizontal plane, essentially cranking the back of the gearbox up against the line of the splines.
Hope you get it sorted :y
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Don`t forget that the front of the car is jacked up too so the engine is pointing downwards and your trolley jack is trying to move in a horizontal plane, essentially cranking the back of the gearbox up against the line of the splines.
Hope you get it sorted :y
That is along the lines of my thinking, though the last clutch I changed was in a Mk2 Transit in 1985, on my back on the drive...... :D :D
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Don`t forget that the front of the car is jacked up too so the engine is pointing downwards and your trolley jack is trying to move in a horizontal plane, essentially cranking the back of the gearbox up against the line of the splines.
Hope you get it sorted :y
Good point. I was strugging to keep it horizontal.
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Not sure if this is relevant because it is so long since I last took the gearbox out that I can't remember :-[
Can anyone advise if the engine is balanced on the engine mounts? or does it want to fall backwards as soon as the bellhousing bolts are removed?
I cant remember whether I rigged up an engine steady to stop it or whether it was in balance and the hoses were enough to stop it toppling :-\
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The Omega one is pretty stable :y , it can't really go anywhere...
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Don`t forget that the front of the car is jacked up too so the engine is pointing downwards and your trolley jack is trying to move in a horizontal plane, essentially cranking the back of the gearbox up against the line of the splines.
Hope you get it sorted :y
:y :y Sounds like an "alignment" isue to me, particularly as it won't move in or out - solution is to carefully lower/raise (probably lower in your case) the jack supporting the box unil it frees up - should then just slide off splines with a bit of jiggling about :y
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Whatever you do do not release the jack under the gear box otherwise you may have major damage. Try very small movements of the jack and try to push it back together again. I would get some long bolts and use these to support the gear box as you pull it away from the engine using very slight adjustments of the jack. The more I think about this the more it sounds as others have said that it is an alignmment problem.
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You guys talking about the pilot bushing? :)
Spigot bushearing innit :D
Corrected for the Omega application
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Gentlemen, I have a theory. Please read, contemplate, and comment. If nonsense, tell me.
The story so far.
All went well up to the point when I began to pull jack and gearbox away from engine. It came an inch, then stopped. I hit it with mallets, tyre levers, ropes and wives, but it was stuck. Andy H mentioned that there was a plate above the gearbox that he removed some years ago doing a similar job. I checked, he was right. I disconnected the plate, but the gearbox was still stuck.
I reckon in all that heaving about I have jammed the g/b input shaft splines in the friction plate splines and tensioned the pressure plate springs. That tension keeps the whole thing locked up.
If I am right, the cure is to put the gearbox back in its place, relaxing the pressure plate springs. Then I can remove the box in the usual way. As Andy H said.
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If I am right, the cure is to put the gearbox back in its place, relaxing the pressure plate springs. Then I can remove the box in the usual way. As Andy H said.
Maybe. If you put a couple of the bellhousing bolts back in and pump the clutch pedal a couple of times (will need to reconnect the hydraulics) it will allow the friction plate to centralise itself again, too. I'm thinking it's possible that the heaving has shifted it out of line with the spigot, so there is now no angle of the gearbox where the input shaft can easily slide.
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Fully agree with Kevin get it back together and start again after having a rest from it. :y
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I would get a jack that holds the engine in place too, to release the tension on the splines, and then try to jiggle the gearbox out (though I've never use a jack on the engine, just one to help with the weight of the gearbox)
I can't seem to understand which plate you are talking about, the plate for the gearshift on the rear of the box?
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/Andygun89/DSCF2406_zps3ecb922c.jpg
for there to be any tension on the pressure plate, the gearbox would have to be caught on something so it can't go back in
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/Andygun89/DSCF2384_zps6495a978.jpg (the bearing on the pic is spaced out to fit calibra flywheel/clutch)
If the gearbox would be caught on the end of the spigot bearing or something, there should be quite a difference in the gap between the gearbox and engine, or it should not align with the engine.
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You guys talking about the pilot bushing? :)
Spigot bushearing innit :D
Corrected for the Omega application
Ok then :y
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Thanks gents. I agree, Kevin, if the g/b input shaft has dragged the friction plate out of line with the spigot bearing there is no way it will go back in. It looks like I may have wrecked it. At the moment the gap is too big to get any bolts in. I will seek longer bolts and see if they will pull things together again.
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While the steel plate was still in place you applied some force which (probably) pushed the clutch friction plate offcentre (upwards).
If you can apply a similar force in the other direction (downwards) to push the plate back you should get things moving again.
Hoiking gearboxes in and out while lying under a car can be a miserable exercise which seems to call for the strength of a weightlifter and the finesse of a brainsurgeon. You have my sympathy - don't give up :y
Next time try supporting the gearbox near to the bell housing and alternately raise & lower the tail of the box. If the clutch plate is off centre it should get re-centred. If it is stuck on the splines the rocking should free it.
Above all make sure that you don't get hurt. Don't worry to much about the gearbox, it is replaceable (and pretty robust).
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I would get a jack that holds the engine in place too, to release the tension on the splines, and then try to jiggle the gearbox out (though I've never use a jack on the engine, just one to help with the weight of the gearbox)
I can't seem to understand which plate you are talking about, the plate for the gearshift on the rear of the box?
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/Andygun89/DSCF2406_zps3ecb922c.jpg
for there to be any tension on the pressure plate, the gearbox would have to be caught on something so it can't go back in
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/Andygun89/DSCF2384_zps6495a978.jpg (the bearing on the pic is spaced out to fit calibra flywheel/clutch)
If the gearbox would be caught on the end of the spigot bearing or something, there should be quite a difference in the gap between the gearbox and engine, or it should not align with the engine.
Thanks for pics. The plate is not on them. Loking at firct pic, plate connects the base of the gearchange lever with the rear of the box. It lies close to the car floor, above the box. Two screws attach it to the box, top rear, above the prop shaft output.
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Thanks, Andy H. It makes sense. Trouble is, if I have pushed the friction plate upwards, to pull it down again I have to push g/b tail up higher than the bracket allows. I suppose I can remove the bracket, recalling recent photographs.
As you say, safety is paramount. Also it is hard to exert much force lying under the car. I have a pit. It may be more sense to lower the car onto its wheels and manoevre it over the pit to heave the g/b tail about. Only worry then is that the g/b might fall into the pit, but at the moment that is the least of my worrries.
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You could just rotate the crankshaft through 180 degrees and see if that buys you anything. :-\
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Thanks Kevin. rotated crankshaft 180 degrees, nothing happened.
I now have the car back on its wheels and over the pit. I managed to get the bolts in the rear g/b mounting to support it.
Pictures follow of front and rear of gearbox right hand side, showing front to left of bolt hole and rear to right of bolt hole. https://www.dropbox.com/s/a3lxlag80iobiha/GBOXrhsREAR.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/a3lxlag80iobiha/GBOXrhsREAR.jpg)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/373y2okznhdmw7m/GBfrontRHS.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/373y2okznhdmw7m/GBfrontRHS.jpg)
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Looks like the box is aligning well with the engine? (which means the clutch has not moved, don't think i can either? since it can manage 270nm in rotation)
Is there any difference in the space between the box and engine?
Can you take some overall pictures front and back?
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Thanks Andy, in fact looking the holes, the rear is right of position and the front is left of position. I have not tried heaving/bashing it straight yet, I am taking a break from it. Current advice is to support the front of the gearbox and heave the tail about. What good this will do is anyone's guess. Another idea is to obtain some longer bolts and pull the g/b and block together, if possible all the way. I am open to suggestions. There was never a bang, like something breaking. I am still hopeful that simply getting everything back into line again will allow it to come apart smoothly. After all, clutch changing is a regular service job.
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Thanks Kevin. rotated crankshaft 180 degrees, nothing happened.
I now have the car back on its wheels and over the pit. I managed to get the bolts in the rear g/b mounting to support it.
Pictures follow of front and rear of gearbox right hand side, showing front to left of bolt hole and rear to right of bolt hole. https://www.dropbox.com/s/a3lxlag80iobiha/GBOXrhsREAR.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/a3lxlag80iobiha/GBOXrhsREAR.jpg)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/373y2okznhdmw7m/GBfrontRHS.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/373y2okznhdmw7m/GBfrontRHS.jpg)
Looking at 2nd photo, still looks slightly out of alignment.
Suggest position a jack at front of g/box on bellhousing to support only and waggle back end of g/box to align - you should feel it move when correctly aligned.
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Right, dbug. 1st photo shows the plate with a lug descending which should be screwed to the g/p protrusion, , rh end of pic2nd photo shows the bellhousing, with a screw failing to align with the thread in the crankcase. Both shots are taken from below, and on the rh of the car. So both ends are off centre in different directions.
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Right, dbug. 1st photo shows the plate with a lug descending which should be screwed to the g/p protrusion, , rh end of pic2nd photo shows the bellhousing, with a screw failing to align with the thread in the crankcase. Both shots are taken from below, and on the rh of the car. So both ends are off centre in different directions.
Ignore the position of the plate at the rear end, although connected to the floor pan, there's a fair bit of play at the point it bolts to the gearbox :y
Ensure the box is in neutral, drop the jack just enough to clear the box, rotate it about 5° clockwise then re support it near to the front end without fouling the gap in front of the box. Drop the rear mounting and move the box left/right until the gap at the front is even side to side. Once square, you should then be able to move it either back home or off :y
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You could just rotate the crankshaft through 180 degrees and see if that buys you anything. :-\
Silly me. You mean that if the friction plate is off centre then as the crankshaft turns the gearbox tail might turn with it. I must try that again, perhaps supporting front of g/b with back unsupported. And if it is off centre, I could arrange that by pulling g/b tail down I could re-centre it.
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You could just rotate the crankshaft through 180 degrees and see if that buys you anything. :-\
Silly me. You mean that if the friction plate is off centre then as the crankshaft turns the gearbox tail might turn with it. I must try that again, perhaps supporting front of g/b with back unsupported. And if it is off centre, I could arrange that by pulling g/b tail down I could re-centre it.
Yep, that's what I had in mind. :y
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Gearbox back in place attached to engine. I have turned the engine over a couple of times. G/b did not twitch.Are there any more things I should do before I disconnect it and try hauling it backwards again?
I have done all this over the pit. I should like to drop the gearbox with me in the pit, not lying on my back. Obviously there are complications. My idea is to lower it on to planks across the pit. Then have wife jack up car one side and push the g/b out sideways. Then lower car so that I can get out from under. Would this work?
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Gearbox back in place attached to engine. I have turned the engine over a couple of times. G/b did not twitch.Are there any more things I should do before I disconnect it and try hauling it backwards again?
I have done all this over the pit. I should like to drop the gearbox with me in the pit, not lying on my back. Obviously there are complications. My idea is to lower it on to planks across the pit. Then have wife jack up car one side and push the g/b out sideways. Then lower car so that I can get out from under. Would this work?
That rather depends on whether your wife wants you to get out of the pit...........
I would lower the box onto the planks then pick it up and place it in the pit.
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Gearbox back in place attached to engine. I have turned the engine over a couple of times. G/b did not twitch.Are there any more things I should do before I disconnect it and try hauling it backwards again?
I have done all this over the pit. I should like to drop the gearbox with me in the pit, not lying on my back. Obviously there are complications. My idea is to lower it on to planks across the pit. Then have wife jack up car one side and push the g/b out sideways. Then lower car so that I can get out from under. Would this work?
That rather depends on whether your wife wants you to get out of the pit...........
I would lower the box onto the planks then pick it up and place it in the pit.
What does it weight? I never imagined I could pick it up.
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15-25kg?
It's nothing like an auto.
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I have turned the crankshaft a couple of times. Is there anything to be gained by putting back the hydraulic pipe and pumping the clutch pedal?
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15-25kg?
It's nothing like an auto.
And the rest ::) I would prepare for 40kgs...
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15-25kg?
It's nothing like an auto.
And the rest ::) I would prepare for 40kgs...
the rest?
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15-25kg?
It's nothing like an auto.
And the rest ::) I would prepare for 40kgs...
the rest?
ie more than 25kgs :y
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Gearbox weighs 7 stones or 44Kgs, see first picture.
Working in the pit, upper plate still fouled gearbox removal, so I removed it. Then gearbox slid easily off. Wife jacked car up one side, I clambered out and hauled out gearbox. Clutch plate looks worn out, second picture.
Thanks to all for advise and encouragement.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2iq9zwgk2xzpsyp/GEARBOXonSCALES.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2iq9zwgk2xzpsyp/GEARBOXonSCALES.jpg)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h9z7yy5zn24y8kr/clutchPLATE.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/h9z7yy5zn24y8kr/clutchPLATE.jpg)
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Well done for sticking at it :y
That clutch is definitely a long way past its best...
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Well done .. you stuck at it and got there... :y :y :y
Please can I have your garage ?? ;) ;) ;)
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What a relief. We knew you would get there in the end all you have to do now is to work out how to get it back onto your planks and inline to get it back together. :y
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Well done :y
I`m surprised it weighed 44Kg, I would have guessed at 25Kg :-\
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Gearbox weighs 7 stones or 44Kgs, see first picture.
Working in the pit, upper plate still fouled gearbox removal, so I removed it. Then gearbox slid easily off. Wife jacked car up one side, I clambered out and hauled out gearbox. Clutch plate looks worn out, second picture.
Thanks to all for advise and encouragement.
A trojan effort Terry! ;)
Sorted photies for ya:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43954633/spL40XPFcUytkYxVFXqPjiq0coauEpOpTKdox3Kwjms.jpeg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43954633/MkZoVhyf9ItbzU76Mv3QVhaZ4BNLcnvqo-FqV72yydE.jpeg)
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Excellent news :y
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perhaps now you can get those golf clubs out if it ever stops raining.
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Well done :y Is that your garage , nice set up .