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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 21 January 2014, 10:15:36

Title: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 January 2014, 10:15:36
Hi guys, thinking out loud again :)

I've tried to do a 0-60 test to prove my car is running at its original 0-60 time (thus proving its not down on power.

Have you ever tried doing this? its impossible lol

Is there any other way to prove if your engines down on power or not?
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: AndyRoid on 21 January 2014, 10:27:14

Have you ever tried doing this? its impossible lol
No it's not, there are quite a few smartphone apps that will let you obtain an accurate 0-60 time.

Is there any other way to prove if your engines down on power or not?
Rolling road is the most accurate.
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 January 2014, 10:31:27

Have you ever tried doing this? its impossible lol
No it's not, there are quite a few smartphone apps that will let you obtain an accurate 0-60 time.

Is there any other way to prove if your engines down on power or not?
Rolling road is the most accurate.

No mate, i meant the logistics of driving at 0-60 on the public roads. Far too much traffic. Well, round my way anyhow  :y
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: chrisgixer on 21 January 2014, 10:34:04
Indeed there are, quite clever some of them. Do you have a Smartphone Webby?

Cheaper than a dyno run too. Although it won't pick up any flat spots like a dyno would.
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 January 2014, 10:35:40
Sadly Chjris i have a £9.99 Nokia  :-[ ;D

i can borrow the wife's though :)

ive tried to find a stretch of road to do it. but really bloody hard! lol
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Nick W on 21 January 2014, 10:52:01
Matching the manufacturer's figures will also require you to be much more brutal than you will want. It's very hard on the clutch, diff, driveshafts etc. Small differences in road surfaces and weather skew the results.

Don't let this stop you establishing a baseline for your car and techunique, as that could prove useful for what you want to do.
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 January 2014, 10:56:41
Thanks Nick. Only looking to do it the once to see where the car's at to establish if i need to investigate a power loss issue :)
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 January 2014, 11:03:36
I suppose another question to consider..... bearing in mind it's a 14 year old car is it typical there would be any power loss at all due to wear and age?
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 21 January 2014, 12:47:17
Hi guys, thinking out loud again :)

I've tried to do a 0-60 test to prove my car is running at its original 0-60 time (thus proving its not down on power.

Have you ever tried doing this? its impossible lol

Is there any other way to prove if your engines down on power or not?


5.8 seconds. :)
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: AndyRoid on 21 January 2014, 12:59:50
I suppose another question to consider..... bearing in mind it's a 14 year old car is it typical there would be any power loss at all due to wear and age?
It's a dead cert that a few horses have escaped since it left the factory.
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 January 2014, 13:01:18
Hi guys, thinking out loud again :)

I've tried to do a 0-60 test to prove my car is running at its original 0-60 time (thus proving its not down on power.

Have you ever tried doing this? its impossible lol

Is there any other way to prove if your engines down on power or not?


5.8 seconds. :)

Good time mate! ;)

RIGHT. Just been on lunch and as I had to nip to the stores I decided to get the old girl up to temperature and go on the longest stretch of road I know, bring to a halt, then floor it lol

I still maintain that this is actually hard to do! The road was a long stretch that has big roundabouts at each end. I went round the roundabout a few times before it was clear  ;D

Anyway, first test I did I saw 11-12 seconds. However I pussied out and didnt keep my foot hard down (I'm really quite scared of going fast lol)

Next time I kept my foot in but forgot to reset the stopwatch on the dash  ::)

As they say...third time lucky...

Floored it and kept my foot in all the way to 60. Got 9.7 seconds AND that included the road starting on a slight incline!!!!

Exceptionally pleased and had some good fun finding out. Oh and saved some dough - dyno run is £90 an hour  :o
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 21 January 2014, 13:04:41
Hi guys, thinking out loud again :)

I've tried to do a 0-60 test to prove my car is running at its original 0-60 time (thus proving its not down on power.

Have you ever tried doing this? its impossible lol

Is there any other way to prove if your engines down on power or not?


5.8 seconds. :)

Good time mate! ;)

RIGHT. Just been on lunch and as I had to nip to the stores I decided to get the old girl up to temperature and go on the longest stretch of road I know, bring to a halt, then floor it lol

I still maintain that this is actually hard to do! The road was a long stretch that has big roundabouts at each end. I went round the roundabout a few times before it was clear  ;D

Anyway, first test I did I saw 11-12 seconds. However I pussied out and didnt keep my foot hard down (I'm really quite scared of going fast lol)

Next time I kept my foot in but forgot to reset the stopwatch on the dash  ::)

As they say...third time lucky...

Floored it and kept my foot in all the way to 60. Got 9.7 seconds AND that included the road starting on a slight incline!!!!

Exceptionally pleased and had some good fun finding out. Oh and saved some dough - dyno run is £90 an hour  :o


That sounds about right for the 2.6.

Using an AC 22, I managed 9.4seconds in my 2.6 Auto. :y
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 January 2014, 13:07:15
...and mine's a 2.5  ;D

To be honest it's probably a bit more than that... i may have been just crawling when i started.... but then taking the slight incline in to account.

I'm very happy with that!!!!
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 21 January 2014, 13:09:36
...and mine's a 2.5  ;D

To be honest it's probably a bit more than that... i may have been just crawling when i started.... but then taking the slight incline in to account.

I'm very happy with that!!!!


....and don't forget speedo error. :y
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 January 2014, 13:20:47
I suppose another question to consider..... bearing in mind it's a 14 year old car is it typical there would be any power loss at all due to wear and age?
It's a dead cert that a few horses have escaped since it left the factory.

Thanks Andy..... how do these horses get loose? Is it to do with tiny clearances of the camshafts?
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 21 January 2014, 13:26:46
I suppose another question to consider..... bearing in mind it's a 14 year old car is it typical there would be any power loss at all due to wear and age?
It's a dead cert that a few horses have escaped since it left the factory.

Thanks Andy..... how do these horses get loose? Is it to do with tiny clearances of the camshafts?


Mileage can also release a few extra horses. :y
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 January 2014, 13:40:27
Thanks Opti. What's the reasoning for it losing them? Just trying to get my head round what happens over time :)
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: AndyRoid on 21 January 2014, 14:12:20
Thanks Opti. What's the reasoning for it losing them? Just trying to get my head round what happens over time :)
Wear & tear
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 January 2014, 14:24:31
So i'd guess that piston ring wear was the main reason... i.e. not allowing the compression that it did from new?
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: martin42 on 21 January 2014, 14:38:16
If you feed them more often they would stay around instead of leaving lol  :P
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 January 2014, 14:42:15
If you feed them more often they would stay around instead of leaving lol  :P

LOL oil or petrol?  ;D
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 21 January 2014, 21:08:32
Hi guys, thinking out loud again :)

I've tried to do a 0-60 test to prove my car is running at its original 0-60 time (thus proving its not down on power.

Have you ever tried doing this? its impossible lol

Is there any other way to prove if your engines down on power or not?


5.8 seconds. :)

Good time mate! ;)

RIGHT. Just been on lunch and as I had to nip to the stores I decided to get the old girl up to temperature and go on the longest stretch of road I know, bring to a halt, then floor it lol

I still maintain that this is actually hard to do! The road was a long stretch that has big roundabouts at each end. I went round the roundabout a few times before it was clear  ;D

Anyway, first test I did I saw 11-12 seconds. However I pussied out and didnt keep my foot hard down (I'm really quite scared of going fast lol)

Next time I kept my foot in but forgot to reset the stopwatch on the dash  ::)

As they say...third time lucky...

Floored it and kept my foot in all the way to 60. Got 9.7 seconds AND that included the road starting on a slight incline!!!!

Exceptionally pleased and had some good fun finding out. Oh and saved some dough - dyno run is £90 an hour  :o


That sounds about right for the 2.6.

Using an AC 22, I managed 9.4seconds in my 2.6 Auto. :y

Tiny bit under 8 :(
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 21 January 2014, 21:09:15
Thanks Opti. What's the reasoning for it losing them? Just trying to get my head round what happens over time :)
Wear & tear

They also get looser
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 21 January 2014, 21:37:59
Hi guys, thinking out loud again :)

I've tried to do a 0-60 test to prove my car is running at its original 0-60 time (thus proving its not down on power.

Have you ever tried doing this? its impossible lol

Is there  any other way to prove if your engines down on power or not?

anything more than 3 secs is down on power.. ;D
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: omega3000 on 22 January 2014, 15:47:29
What you need is a nice 3.0 MV6 , nice and tight engine with oodles of power anytime  ::) :P
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 22 January 2014, 16:42:12
Hi guys, thinking out loud again :)

I've tried to do a 0-60 test to prove my car is running at its original 0-60 time (thus proving its not down on power.

Have you ever tried doing this? its impossible lol

Is there  any other way to prove if your engines down on power or not?

anything more than 3 secs is down on power.. ;D

The fact that we have a spread from 12 to "a bit under 8" for the same car, with a book figure of 9.5, shows how reliable an indicator a self-timed 0-60 is. ::)
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 22 January 2014, 16:57:29
Hi guys, thinking out loud again :)

I've tried to do a 0-60 test to prove my car is running at its original 0-60 time (thus proving its not down on power.

Have you ever tried doing this? its impossible lol

Is there  any other way to prove if your engines down on power or not?

anything more than 3 secs is down on power.. ;D

The fact that we have a spread from 12 to "a bit under 8" for the same car, with a book figure of 9.5, shows how reliable an indicator a self-timed 0-60 is. ::)


My 9.4 second time is pretty close. :y
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 22 January 2014, 17:31:15

My 9.4 second time is pretty close. :y

Indeed. Either you have a very accurate speedo, a speedo with uncharacteristically little damping of the indication, an accurate stopwatch, an uncanny ability to multi-task and lightning quick reactions - or you were lucky. ;D

I'll let you decide which. ;)
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 22 January 2014, 17:40:09
To be fair the 11-12 seconds was me not driving it hard enough.... something I'm embarrassingly not used to doing. Once I kept my foot in it was spot on  :y
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: TheBoy on 22 January 2014, 18:11:00
Most smartphone GPS are wholly inadequate for this. Probably find a stopwatch and speedo are more accurate (and thats not accurate anyway)
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 22 January 2014, 18:22:22

My 9.4 second time is pretty close. :y

Indeed. Either you have a very accurate speedo, a speedo with uncharacteristically little damping of the indication, an accurate stopwatch, an uncanny ability to multi-task and lightning quick reactions - or you were lucky. ;D

I'll let you decide which. ;)


I used an AC22 which is supposedly accurate to within 3%........or less than 1% if calibrated at Santa Pod or the like. :y
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 22 January 2014, 20:11:19

My 9.4 second time is pretty close. :y

Indeed. Either you have a very accurate speedo, a speedo with uncharacteristically little damping of the indication, an accurate stopwatch, an uncanny ability to multi-task and lightning quick reactions - or you were lucky. ;D

I'll let you decide which. ;)


I used an AC22 which is supposedly accurate to within 3%........or less than 1% if calibrated at Santa Pod or the like. :y

Ahh, well, that is probably the only way to get a believable figure. :y
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 22 January 2014, 22:00:33
Hi guys, thinking out loud again :)

I've tried to do a 0-60 test to prove my car is running at its original 0-60 time (thus proving its not down on power.

Have you ever tried doing this? its impossible lol

Is there  any other way to prove if your engines down on power or not?

anything more than 3 secs is down on power.. ;D

The fact that we have a spread from 12 to "a bit under 8" for the same car, with a book figure of 9.5, shows how reliable an indicator a self-timed 0-60 is. ::)

not worth even talking about ;D

but seriously type of tranny and differential ratios make some drastical changes
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 23 January 2014, 08:35:39
I'm not sure that it's not worth talking about. Like Kev says, it's never going to be accurate cos of the amount of variables. But getting a bang-on figure wasn't what I was looking at; it was to do a poor-man's performance test and to clue you in to whether there, potentially, is a problem with a lack of power output.

If it took me 15 secs. to get to 60 on a straight, flat road using a stopwatch that started the moment I floored it and stopped at the moment I hit 60 then I (personally) would be thinking I've got an issue.

Just m.o. of course  :y
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 23 January 2014, 09:35:19
I'm not sure that it's not worth talking about. Like Kev says, it's never going to be accurate cos of the amount of variables. But getting a bang-on figure wasn't what I was looking at; it was to do a poor-man's performance test and to clue you in to whether there, potentially, is a problem with a lack of power output.

If it took me 15 secs. to get to 60 on a straight, flat road using a stopwatch that started the moment I floored it and stopped at the moment I hit 60 then I (personally) would be thinking I've got an issue.

Just m.o. of course  :y


Webby trying to measure the 0-60 for performance comparison with other cars may not worth the hassle..  but comparing to your cars previous performance may be useful ..  but in any case the car will give lots of other hints..  starting with rough idle, black smoke, hesitation, stopping etc etc..  however, on the other side for small power losses I still carry the opinion that, on an auto it will be harder to understand and measure as the tranny trashes quite amount of power already..


although expensive, best way is to use the same dyno assuming they dont play with its parameters daily..
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 23 January 2014, 09:46:12
Completely agree mate  :y

What if those signs you mention don't exist. Yeah, you could start off by breaking out the compression tester but its quite hard on the V6. I think it's a good way of cluing you in.
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 23 January 2014, 12:41:05
Completely agree mate  :y

What if those signs you mention don't exist. Yeah, you could start off by breaking out the compression tester but its quite hard on the V6. I think it's a good way of cluing you in.


although most of the times we neglect athmospheric  temp changes, I think it will also effect engines power output.. 



Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: zirk on 23 January 2014, 18:51:28
I'm not sure that it's not worth talking about. Like Kev says, it's never going to be accurate cos of the amount of variables. But getting a bang-on figure wasn't what I was looking at; it was to do a poor-man's performance test and to clue you in to whether there, potentially, is a problem with a lack of power output.

If it took me 15 secs. to get to 60 on a straight, flat road using a stopwatch that started the moment I floored it and stopped at the moment I hit 60 then I (personally) would be thinking I've got an issue.

Just m.o. of course  :y
Your need to hit around 63 mph on the Migs, to get nearer a true 60 mph,  ;)
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: TheBoy on 23 January 2014, 18:54:02
I'm not sure that it's not worth talking about. Like Kev says, it's never going to be accurate cos of the amount of variables. But getting a bang-on figure wasn't what I was looking at; it was to do a poor-man's performance test and to clue you in to whether there, potentially, is a problem with a lack of power output.

If it took me 15 secs. to get to 60 on a straight, flat road using a stopwatch that started the moment I floored it and stopped at the moment I hit 60 then I (personally) would be thinking I've got an issue.

Just m.o. of course  :y
Your need to hit around 63 mph on the Migs, to get nearer a true 60 mph,  ;)
Due to a slight lag on speedo, probably not...
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: TheBoy on 23 January 2014, 18:54:48
Although everything is measured 0-62mph now anyway, to keep the euros happy
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: zirk on 23 January 2014, 19:05:14
When I got bored on the Motorways in the past, I did some Speed vs Revs test on Calibrated Plods (had a few now) and Standard Migs with the same Engine / Diff Ratios, it became a fairly consistent that, working the figures backwards that a typical 3.0 / 3.2 standard Speedo at 70 mph as pretty much bang on 66.5 mph on the Calibrated Plods, so standard seems to read about 3.5 mph high at 70.

so guessing 63 wouln't be that far out for a true 60, if all that makes sense.  ;D 
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: TheBoy on 23 January 2014, 19:07:58
When I got bored on the Motorways in the past, I did some Speed vs Revs test on Calibrated Plods (had a few now) and Standard Migs with the same Engine / Diff Ratios, it became a fairly consistent that, working the figures backwards that a typical 3.0 / 3.2 standard Speedo at 70 mph as pretty much bang on 66.5 mph on the Calibrated Plod, so standard seems to read about 3.5 mph high at 70.

so guessing 63 wouln't be that far out for a true 60, if all that makes sense.  ;D
Yeah, but when accelerating (certainly the non calibrated) are slightly damped, if that makes sense? :y
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: zirk on 23 January 2014, 19:14:33
When I got bored on the Motorways in the past, I did some Speed vs Revs test on Calibrated Plods (had a few now) and Standard Migs with the same Engine / Diff Ratios, it became a fairly consistent that, working the figures backwards that a typical 3.0 / 3.2 standard Speedo at 70 mph as pretty much bang on 66.5 mph on the Calibrated Plod, so standard seems to read about 3.5 mph high at 70.

so guessing 63 wouln't be that far out for a true 60, if all that makes sense.  ;D
Yeah, but when accelerating (certainly the non calibrated) are slightly damped, if that makes sense? :y

Yea, it does, suppose I could always tow Webby with a Bungee Rope behind a 3.2 Manual and see how long it takes him to hit me in the rear at 60.  :D
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: TheBoy on 23 January 2014, 19:17:50
When I got bored on the Motorways in the past, I did some Speed vs Revs test on Calibrated Plods (had a few now) and Standard Migs with the same Engine / Diff Ratios, it became a fairly consistent that, working the figures backwards that a typical 3.0 / 3.2 standard Speedo at 70 mph as pretty much bang on 66.5 mph on the Calibrated Plod, so standard seems to read about 3.5 mph high at 70.

so guessing 63 wouln't be that far out for a true 60, if all that makes sense.  ;D
Yeah, but when accelerating (certainly the non calibrated) are slightly damped, if that makes sense? :y

Yea, it does, suppose I could always tow Webby with a Bungee Rope behind a 3.2 Manual and see how long it takes him to hit me in the rear at 60.  :D
Webby doesn't do 60, bit too scary ;D
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: 05omegav6 on 23 January 2014, 19:18:35
Bless ;D
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: aaronjb on 23 January 2014, 20:50:22
When I got bored on the Motorways in the past, I did some Speed vs Revs test on Calibrated Plods (had a few now) and Standard Migs with the same Engine / Diff Ratios, it became a fairly consistent that, working the figures backwards that a typical 3.0 / 3.2 standard Speedo at 70 mph as pretty much bang on 66.5 mph on the Calibrated Plod, so standard seems to read about 3.5 mph high at 70.

so guessing 63 wouln't be that far out for a true 60, if all that makes sense.  ;D
Yeah, but when accelerating (certainly the non calibrated) are slightly damped, if that makes sense? :y

Yea, it does, suppose I could always tow Webby with a Bungee Rope behind a 3.2 Manual and see how long it takes him to hit me in the rear at 60.  :D
Webby doesn't do 60, bit too scary ;D

I thought of his comment about that as I nailed it up the A322 the other night.. ;D
Title: Re: Any way to prove your car's down on power?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 23 January 2014, 22:43:21
When I got bored on the Motorways in the past, I did some Speed vs Revs test on Calibrated Plods (had a few now) and Standard Migs with the same Engine / Diff Ratios, it became a fairly consistent that, working the figures backwards that a typical 3.0 / 3.2 standard Speedo at 70 mph as pretty much bang on 66.5 mph on the Calibrated Plod, so standard seems to read about 3.5 mph high at 70.

so guessing 63 wouln't be that far out for a true 60, if all that makes sense.  ;D
Yeah, but when accelerating (certainly the non calibrated) are slightly damped, if that makes sense? :y

Yea, it does, suppose I could always tow Webby with a Bungee Rope behind a 3.2 Manual and see how long it takes him to hit me in the rear at 60.  :D

 ;D ;D