Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Marks DTM Calib on 21 January 2014, 15:10:01
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So an interesting one this, I know my thoughts but what about the rest:
http://btst.co.uk/PoliceCauseAccident/?inf_contact_key=d9f38e04489548a600e0826035271ebeb8964ed2294399adad82181925fd1bed
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The Police officer for stopping anyone in fog on a bend!!
The 2nd biker, going by his speedo, too fast in the conditions. (I'm/was a biker)
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My gut instinct was that all 3 share the blame, although not equally. The bikers were travelling well in excess of the limit in very poor visibility, the copper was quite foolish standing in the road that late and getting them to stop like that, although he is within his rights as a Warranted Officer of the law to do so. He probably should have signalled for them to pull in when possible and if they didn't then pursue with the blues and twos on.
In terms of balance of the blame though, Biker no2 gets the majority of it, IMO although Esty is to blame for everything.....I mean everything! ;D
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Had the policeman not stood out in the road like that the first biker could have pulled over more - however the bike behind could have come off the brakes and gone past (although looks like he just panicked)
In the eye's of the law probable the second biker at fault - but you could argue it forever
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That second biker was close on a ton when he anchored up,following too close to stop,could have been a kid on the road and not a copper.
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Standing in the middle of the road when he saw on the speed gun what speed they were doing?? Doopy mr plod IMO.
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copper caused that accident 100% :y
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Just bear in mind... The Police are "NEVER WRONG"... >:(
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For me, its all about route cause and there is but a single (or possibly two) route causes here :y
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For me, its all about route cause and there is but a single (or possibly two) route causes here :y
The copper placing himself in a dangerous position on a bend in the fog ::)
(and that's before he walked out in to the road)
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Agree with guffer,what a stupid time with weather conditions,doing a speed trap on a bend and expecting a bike to stop straight away,surely a camera van would have been better and safer.
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No copper, no prang. Simple.
However the law will say, be prepared to stop at all times.
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Its interesting for me, a key reason to post this was to see where we were as a collective with respect to blame.
What if it was not a copper but a lorry pulling out a layby or a large combine going in the opposite direction taking up most of the road.
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For me, its all about route cause and there is but a single (or possibly two) route causes here :y
The copper placing himself in a dangerous position on a bend in the fog ::)
(and that's before he walked out in to the road)
What if it had been an escaped animal that ran out in to the road?
While biker no:2 is definitely to blame for driving at an excessive speed, the bulk of the ingredients required for the accident were put in place by the copper who already had a suspicion that the bike was speeding so he has to share some blame.
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That road looks for all the world like the mountain section on the Isle of Man. If so, the copper is loopy as there is no speed limit at all on that section.
Presume its not the Isle of Man then. ::)
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The 1st biker only stopped where he did because the officer was standing in the middle of the road. Surely the copper would've been safer (to all concerned) to stay in the lay by and flag him in.
But the 2nd biker has to be at fault because he was clearly going too fast and couldn't stop in time.
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The second biker, he was travelling too close to the one in front to stop safely for whatever reason.
Copper, conditions or speed have now't to with it
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Plod was wrong to step out like that so fast and in fog ::) , ultimately plod caused the accident but biker 2 was travelling too fast and grabbed a handful of front brake ::)
Bikes should be fitted with fog lights , always said that :y
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Biker number 2 knows who he blames.. it looks like he aims for the copper right before he hits the other bike :lol:
Chris - could also be lots of Wales with fences like that and lots of fog..
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Plod's fault.
Without his foolish intervention there wouldn't have been an accident.
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The plod is clearly the cause of the crash, however the question was who is in the wrong...
Clearly all 3 are in the wrong:
Plod - being patently bloody stupid both in the manner, location and conditions for the stop
Bikes 1 & 2 - speeding and also driving without regard for the conditions.
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Biker two, traveling to fast to be able to stop
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Its interesting for me, a key reason to post this was to see where we were as a collective with respect to blame.
What if it was not a copper but a lorry pulling out a layby or a large combine going in the opposite direction taking up most of the road.
My thoughts as well :y
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I've voted biker2 , because, imo, if you cannot stop in time then you are travelling too fast/close to the vehicle in front or simply not paying attention to whats going on in the road ahead of you.
I think a ticket of careless driving would be in order for biker 2
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By this reckoning though, all traffic should slow down for every pedestrian on the side of the road, just in case they decide to jump out into your path on some suicide mission or whatever.
Whilst we do that in residential areas, where kids might jump out between parked cars etc, it's not reasonable to do the same in a a national speed limit(assuming that's a national speed limit road of course, I think it probably is)
Is it reasonable for a cooper or anyone else, to stand or jump into the middle of a road covered by a national speed limit?
I'd say no. A daft hat, a badge, and a Wally bib counts for nothing here IMO.
A driver pulling out of a side street, a combine coming the other way taking both lanes, matters not. They would be at fault.
Bikers 1 gets speeding
Biker 2 gets same plus careless (why didn't he just overtake then pull over?)
As they would have anyway.
As far as the accident goes...Plod gets sack for Being a total cock and causing an accident.(but I bet that doesn't happen)
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Biker 2 for not being able to stop in time; the Police officer should have directed bike 1 into the layby for a safe stop, but that is a separate argument imho.
In an insurance case it is always the one who runs into the back's fault regardless of why the front vehicle stopped.
Just my two penneth........... ;) ;)
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Biker 2 obviously wasn't paying attention as Biker 1 manged to stop. ::)
The policeman could have been a sheep so his actions are irrelevant in my view and so my vote is Biker 2. :)
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foggy weather and a bend.. and road likely to be half wet.. cop could find a better place and time.. more serious accidents could easily happen..
also second bike is fast and very late to react in time..
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ALL, the bikers were going to fast ,,,
the officer would not need to step out , if they were not driving like tw### in such bad driving conditions driving to close together and not looking were they were going and also judging distance incorrectly
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Well all I can say is that that bobby must be quick-draw-mcgraw!!! How he can look down the sight & focus the red dot then 'ping' that bike so quickly from that distance ??? ??? ??? I use similar radar guns and it is extremely hard to aim and catch a motorbike doing 40-50mph never mind the speed them two were doing!!! When he looked like he pinged the first one it also looked like he was less than the 37m that you can actually fire the lazer at too!
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Totally not the coppers fault in my opinion. Is the copper allowed to gun them and tell them to pull over? Yes. Does the first cyclist manage to stop? Yes because his speed is acceptable. Does the second biker stop. No. He's going too fast. And any time an accident occurs where you go in to the back of someone. . . It's your fault.
You could argue the weather was an issue. . . Something biker two should have factored in when choosing his following distance.
So I blame biker two. And stemo (that was a joke)
:y
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The irony is they were apparently filming a road safety scene for a TT Circuit Guide program. This one done the rounds on the bike forums a while back and they pretty much all blamed biker 2. In fact, even biker 2 blamed biker 2. ;D ;D
It wasn't even his bike. ::)
The making of it is still on You Tube (so TB will never see it). ;) ;D
Ah, just found it. :y
http://youtu.be/OxiKQl7B2y8
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That road looks for all the world like the mountain section on the Isle of Man. If so, the copper is loopy as there is no speed limit at all on that section.
Presume its not the Isle of Man then. ::)
Excellent observation Chris, spot on. :y
It was a staged event for a program, except it went just ever so slightly wrong. ;D
To answer Marks question I opted for biker 2. It turns out he was the least experienced, hence the others stopped. A lesson to born again bikers. :y
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At the end of the day Biker 2 was unable to stop - Biker 1 stopped as did Biker 3! Agree perhaps a tad stupid to to "gun" them in those conditions and location, and perhaps better not to stand in the middle of the lane, but Biker 2 was not watching and braked too late - IMO
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I think both bikers were at fault.
Both bikes were travelling too fast because if they were in the speed limit the Plod wouldn't have acted.
The first bike should have pulled into the side to allow following traffic to pass, this would have allowed the second bike to pass.
As a plus, as all ready mentioned the second bike was travelling far to fast and didn't allow a safe gap, as mentioned he probably panicked when he saw the Police.....
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I think both bikers were at fault.
Both bikes were travelling too fast because if they were in the speed limit the .....
It was the Isle of Man ...... there is no speed limit ;) ;) (other than that for road conditions etc)
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I think both bikers were at fault.
Both bikes were travelling too fast because if they were in the speed limit the .....
It was the Isle of Man ...... there is no speed limit ;) ;) (other than that for road conditions etc)
Correct, the original clip shows it to be on the Isle of Man. Although people would not be expected to know this from the short clip.
The Police Officer was there purely for filming purposes, which is why Jason spotted the lack of authenticity in the use of the speed gun I assume.
Biker 2 was not meant to crash though.
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which is why Jason spotted the lack of authenticity in the use of the speed gun I assume.
Yup, very tricky blighters to catch with a speed gun are motorcyclists, especially if moving very quickly, I didn't think there'd be any way he could have pinged that bike, he wasn't even looking down the lense.
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which is why Jason spotted the lack of authenticity in the use of the speed gun I assume.
Yup, very tricky blighters to catch with a speed gun are motorcyclists, especially if moving very quickly, I didn't think there'd be any way he could have pinged that bike, he wasn't even looking down the lense.
What device was it? Looks like an older school muniquip radar rather than a laser and if so, would have picked up on the bike, albeit the lead rather than an individual?
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In my humble opinion, the fault lies with the second Rider, either not paying attention or driving to fast for the road conditions, after all the first Biker managed to stop ok, just.
However, cant help feeling the Police Officer contributed to the Accident in the first place, if it was a 30 or 40 Mph speed restricted road, then possible fair enough, but to me it looks like an Unrestricted single carriageway so 60mph, if thats the case, then no, you cant just step out on the main road to stop someone at short notice, especially given the weather conditions at the time, speed trap or no speed trap, it should have been organised in a manor that was safe to pull vehicles and in a controlled manor.
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.... but to me it looks like an Unrestricted single carriageway so 60mph, .....
It was the Isle of Man so it was unrestricted .......... as in no restriction at all ...... as in as fast as you want/can! :y
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Not the best place or conditions to to do a speed check, but, it,s got to be biker two as he was going too quick to
stop, whatever the state of the weather, speed etc. ::)
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Not the best place or conditions to to do a speed check, but, it,s got to be biker two as he was going too quick to
stop, whatever the state of the weather, speed etc. ::)
I guess, as it was staged apparently, that all parties knew full well what was about to unfold, or what should have unfolded.
That being the case, biker two knew full well what was about to unfold before him, but STILL managed to make a complete bollards of the whole thing anyway. ;D eejit ;D in fact Al said he admitted as much afterwards. ;)
That section looks like part of the mountain course. I think I know where but can't be sure. If so, it's regularly covered in low cloud, or cloud that can appear almost instantly without warning. There is no speed limit.
The attraction of the course is the challenge of riding it, knowing the conditions/course/talent or lack of can bite very severely in the 'arris if things go wrong. That's the rush/buzz/adrenalin rush bikers go for. Its their choice and that of the Manx govt. to control.
The guy cocked it up. Seemples ;D
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Rider 2 clearly.
If the first Biker managed to stop and the second chap crashes into him. That is because rider 2 was either too fast(for the conditions) or had not left enough stopping distance between him and the vehicle in front of him.