Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: minifreek on 26 February 2014, 10:10:15
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I need to know where the bottom pulley/crank timing mark is on the X25XE engine please...
I can see the cam timing marks, those are quite obvious but the bottom timing mark isn't that obvious...
Is it the 'pointer' that is cast into the block kind of sticking out a bit...?
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There is a notch at the bottom of the front cover, and a corresponding dot on the pulley.
You do know that the marks are only for provisional lining up of the belt, and that the locking kit/gauge actually does the accurate part of the job? Doing a belt without the kit is unlikely to result in a satisfactory job
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I need to know where the bottom pulley/crank timing mark is on the X25XE engine please...
I can see the cam timing marks, those are quite obvious but the bottom timing mark isn't that obvious...
Is it the 'pointer' that is cast into the block kind of sticking out a bit...?
If you meet meet me where Beanz are made ::) I have a locking kit that you can borrow ....... a small deposit should secure it or I might be open to sensible offers for my Sykes Pickavant locking kit (don't plan on doing another belt on mine) ;) ;) ;) ;)
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There is a notch at the bottom of the front cover, and a corresponding dot on the pulley.
You do know that the marks are only for provisional lining up of the belt, and that the locking kit/gauge actually does the accurate part of the job? Doing a belt without the kit is unlikely to result in a satisfactory job
I just want to know where the marking is on the bottom pulley/crank...
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I need to know where the bottom pulley/crank timing mark is on the X25XE engine please...
I can see the cam timing marks, those are quite obvious but the bottom timing mark isn't that obvious...
Is it the 'pointer' that is cast into the block kind of sticking out a bit...?
If you meet meet me where Beanz are made ::) I have a locking kit that you can borrow ....... a small deposit should secure it or I might be open to sensible offers for my Sykes Pickavant locking kit (don't plan on doing another belt on mine) ;) ;) ;) ;)
I have a locking kit already but it doesn't have the long C type tool in with it..
Just has the cam lockers....
Didn't realise you was a local... ;)
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I have a locking kit already but it doesn't have the long C type tool in with it..
Just has the cam lockers....
Didn't realise you was a local... ;)
Not a full kit then ;)
Wigan has always been local-ish to Bury :y
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If I had transport to get to where they also make soup I would take you up on the offer of a borrow :)
However, I need to know the timing marks as the belt went on mine t'other day and trashed at least 4 valves on the right hand bank of cylinders (as you look at it from the front)
I have a mate who's collecting me on Saturday to go and collect a pair of cylinder heads from another mate who lives down in Shropshire....
If you would be so kind and possibly deliver the tool for a deposit and fuel, I would be very grateful :)
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The notch you see in the crank flange goes to the 6 o clock position. With a mirror you can see the mark on the oil pump case and line up with the notch on the crank flange.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/tidla1/timingmarks_zpsd11b39c5.png)
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Excellent that, thankyou :)
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You do need the full kit to get it right. So even if you do it by eye as best you can in order to be mobile, redo it properly at the first opportunity thereafter :) :y
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Just in case it isn't obvious (well it wasn't obvious to me .......)
The auxiliary pulley has a tiny notch (somewhere between 1 and 2 OClock) which lines up with a pointer on the oil pump.
To get the old belt off, and the new belt on, the auxiliary pulley has to be removed which is why the toothed pulley also has a timing mark.
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You need a mirror up under the toothed belt pulley on the crank.
Without the the crank lock though, all 4 cams will almost certainly be out when checked with the correct tool.
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Im not too far from wigan, and have a full timing , locking kit you can borrow if you still need it?
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Once you fit the belt, the camshaft marks dont line up unless you adjust the phase between them by juggling the 3 tensioners. Which is the tricky part...
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Im not too far from wigan, and have a full timing , locking kit you can borrow if you still need it?
I have 1 Im borrowing tonight, someone is dropping 1 off for me to use..
You're more than welcome to come and show me how it works though :)
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Once you fit the belt, the camshaft marks dont line up unless you adjust the phase between them by juggling the 3 tensioners. Which is the tricky part...
Isn't that why the cams are locked...? so they don't move once the tensioners/rollers are tightened up...?
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The cam wedges stop the cams flipping while the belt is off. Once the belt is fitted, It is then timed using the butterfly tool and the eccentric roller/rollers.
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Once you fit the belt, the camshaft marks dont line up unless you adjust the phase between them by juggling the 3 tensioners. Which is the tricky part...
Isn't that why the cams are locked...? so they don't move once the tensioners/rollers are tightened up...?
Errr, no.
Obviously, I'd recommend the OOF v6 cambelt DVD for guidance :)
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Once you fit the belt, the camshaft marks dont line up unless you adjust the phase between them by juggling the 3 tensioners. Which is the tricky part...
Isn't that why the cams are locked...? so they don't move once the tensioners/rollers are tightened up...?
Locks are simply to hold the cams still while you fit the new belt. Once fitted and on the correct teeth, the locks are removed. You then have to adjust it with crank locked in position(with the tool you don't have) and the cam timing gauge(which it sounds like you also don't have..?) to adjust it correctly.
It's not like most other belts where the belt is merely swapped and tensioned. Each aspect on the v6 is infinitely adjustable. You need the correct locking kit to do the job accurately. It also saves hours of dicking about.
Btw, FYI. "Cam belt due" means the cam belt kit needs changing. This includes the rollers and tensioner. Not just the belt, as its the bearings that fail. Not the belt. In case your not aware. :)
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..... You then have to adjust it with crank locked in position(with the tool you don't have) and the cam timing gauge(which it sounds like you also don't have..?) to adjust it correctly......
he will have tomorrow ;) ;) ;) ;)
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The trick is, with the old belt on to then tune it properly so the timing is bang on and then insert the cam wedges. That way the cams are setup perfectly for the new belt :y
Not even worth trying without the locking kit and if you have never done one before on this engine the DVD is worth it's weight in gold (and time spent wasted figuring stuff out) :y
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I did it without the kit, but nezt time I would definitely use a locking kit. As said, the cams have a tendency to spring away from where you need them. The locking kit saves hours of trial and error.
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I did it without the kit, but nezt time I would definitely use a locking kit. As said, the cams have a tendency to spring away from where you need them. The locking kit saves hours of trial and error.
Its not right then. The chances of getting it right without is tiny. And without the locking/timing kit, you cannot tell how near/far from correct it is. Worth, if you can get access to a kit, checking it, should only take 30mins of so, maybe another 20mins if it needs adjusting (it will). :y. Note, the markings on the backplate are not right.
Most engines have a cambelt setup that's either "right" or 1 tooth out (or more than 1, if you've really cocked it up!). The 54 degree GM V6 we have has cams 3/4 infinitely adjustable to the crank (on 2.5/3.0, cams 3/4 are either right or 1 tooth out on 2.6/3.2 with non eccentric idler). Cams 1/2 are infinitely adjustable on all Omega V6 engines.
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I did it without the kit, but nezt time I would definitely use a locking kit. As said, the cams have a tendency to spring away from where you need them. The locking kit saves hours of trial and error.
That's exactly where I was in my pre forum days. Did the job without the kit. Those here said its not possible without. This clearly isn't true.
BUT like your good self now, I agree with those here that say it simply isn't possible to do accurately, without the locking kit. AND it saves so much time and dicking about.
Its quicker, safer, and MUCH more accurate with a locking kit. :y
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Those here said its not possible without. This clearly isn't true.
To clarify, its possible to replace the cambelt without the locking/timing kit, so that the car will run afterwards without a metallic clatter.
It is not possible to do it right without the timing kit though (unless by a magical stroke of luck), the cam timing *will* be out.
If that makes sense to one and all? :)
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Thought the OP said his original belt snapped resulting in bendy valves if so timing will be out so he sez he,s fittin new heads so cams will need setting up at TDC I belive although its a bit vague if he knows the procedure to do this also only having the cam locking part of the kit sounds like its from a 2.0/2.2 kit not V6.Good luck buddy hope you get it purring again :y :y
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The belt didn't snap, the middle/top tensioner let go resulting in the belt skipping and trashing 6 valves on 1 head and 2 on the other..
I have now got fitted 2 x Swindon racing heads from a Vectra challenge car which have been port matched/gas flowed to the 3.0 lower divider perfectly, so I expect gains from this. Also changed the 4 cams to 4 x G cams from a 3.0 litre....
The locking kit I originally used was not for a 2.0 litre but for a V6.... I have now used the 'proper' locking kit, which TBH makes life sooooo much easier, especially when it comes to checking the timing again after setting it up and spinning over a couple of times by hand cranking it...
The engine is now running, a bit lumpy on tickover but Im putting that down to there being no MAF or intake system fitted or other sensors fitted at the moment, but they will all be refitted later on this morning when its finally built back up again... and hopefully it will be purring away like it should do...
I'll tell you what though, I aint doing this again... its taken the best part of a week to get the car back on the road, I couldve done without this... the next time Ill get someone to fit the belt coz its been a PITA doing it... a 4 pot (X20XEV) I can do in an hour start to finish, but a V6 is a different animal....
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its taken the best part of a week to get the car back on the road, I couldve done without this... the next time Ill get someone to fit the belt coz its been a PITA doing it... a 4 pot (X20XEV) I can do in an hour start to finish, but a V6 is a different animal....
You need to pull your finger out Matt ::) ::) ;D I think Mark can do a belt in a couple of ours fom start to finish.
It took me a week end to do my first cam belt ....... a couple of hours at a time due to not being well ...... but once stared had to be finished.
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I have been doing the V6 belts for about 6 years and I have managed to get it down to about 4 hours. But that's without any of the snags that can turn up ::)
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V6 belt in four hours!
1.5 hours is about right, 2.5 V6 can be done in an hour if it was done right last time (2.5 is easier access due to not titing with the plenum).
V6 Omega is much easier to do than a 4 pot FWD Vx
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V6 belt in four hours!
1.5 hours is about right, 2.5 V6 can be done in an hour if it was done right last time (2.5 is easier access due to not titing with the plenum).
V6 Omega is much easier to do than a 4 pot FWD Vx
With strip-down?
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V6 belt in four hours!
1.5 hours is about right, 2.5 V6 can be done in an hour if it was done right last time (2.5 is easier access due to not titing with the plenum).
V6 Omega is much easier to do than a 4 pot FWD Vx
With strip-down?
Engine off to engine on.
I would never of got 6-7 done at a cambelt meet otherwise (although I was totaly buggered at the end of it!)
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It must be all those burgers I eat while doing it then ;D
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All jobs take me twice as long as they should do because I always find something else that needs a look at, so I end up with 3 or 4 jobs on the go. ::) ::)
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All up and running, purring like a kitten... little bit lumpy tickover but I can live with that. Possibly something to do with the heads and the cams that are installed...
Thanks again Andy for the loan of the kit, i shall return it ASAP to you :)
BTW what do you drink...?
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Thanks again Andy for the loan of the kit, i shall return it ASAP to you :)
You're welcome, don't mention it
BTW what do you drink...?
No need Matt, honest ;) ;)
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V6 belt in four hours!
1.5 hours is about right, 2.5 V6 can be done in an hour if it was done right last time (2.5 is easier access due to not titing with the plenum).
V6 Omega is much easier to do than a 4 pot FWD Vx
I've seen you do a 3.0l in 50 mins, with somebody taking/handing you the parts as you removed/refitted them, after previously doing 3 other cambelts earlier in the day...
...mind you, your drinking uni mates were waiting, and I'm sure I heard a mutter of "its not my car" :P. The car has done over 100k (and a few more cambelts!) since then...
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Thanks again Andy for the loan of the kit, i shall return it ASAP to you :)
You're welcome, don't mention it
BTW what do you drink...?
No need Matt, honest ;) ;)
Oh yesh there ish...
When will you be at work, or when is convenient for you, for me to return..
Just say where and when and what you drink :lol:
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When will you be at work, or when is convenient for you, for me to return..
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Any time between 8 & 8 on Friday .... no need to traipse over to Bury when you're only 5 mins away from work. :y :y
Just give me a bell & I can meet you at the front :y
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All those who went to the OOF Newent meet a couple of years ago remember that Andy B and alcohol is not a good mix. Funny as 'eck though ;D
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When will you be at work, or when is convenient for you, for me to return..
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Any time between 8 & 8 on Friday .... no need to traipse over to Bury when you're only 5 mins away from work. :y :y
Just give me a bell & I can meet you at the front :y
OK Andy I will.... looking like beer tokens it is then LOL
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All those who went to the OOF Newent meet a couple of years ago remember that Andy B and alcohol is not a good mix. Funny as 'eck though ;D
:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ ::) I stayed upright though ........ just ;) ;) :y :y
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All those who went to the OOF Newent meet a couple of years ago remember that Andy B and alcohol is not a good mix. Funny as 'eck though ;D
:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ ::) I was held upright though ........ just ;) ;) :y :y
Fixed...
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All those who went to the OOF Newent meet a couple of years ago remember that Andy B and alcohol is not a good mix. Funny as 'eck though ;D
:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ ::) I was held upright though ........ just ;) ;) :y :y
Fixed...
Oh! ??? And I thought it was my ability to conquer (most of) the bottle of Jura ::)
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All those who went to the OOF Newent meet a couple of years ago remember that Andy B and alcohol is not a good mix. Funny as 'eck though ;D
:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ ::) I was held upright though ........ just ;) ;) :y :y
Fixed...
Oh! ??? And I thought it was my ability to conquer (most of) the bottle of Jura ::)
If a gentleman cannot enjoy a slight over endulgence when surround by friends, the world would be a darker place :y
But it was still funny as foook! ;D
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H wasn't very impressed I know that much ;D
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Mrs TB often isn't impressed with me after I've enjoyed a few... ...and punishes me with much noise in the morning ;D
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H wasn't very impressed I know that much ;D
Oh! Not sure what the reply to that should be considering I only see either or both of you once a year at best. ::)
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You weren't suffering from alcohol induced gravity perchance ::)
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H wasn't very impressed I know that much ;D
Oh! Not sure what the reply to that should be considering I only see either or both of you once a year at best. ::)
Depends if you want you wheel nuts tight or not ;) ;D
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All those who went to the OOF Newent meet a couple of years ago remember that Andy B and alcohol is not a good mix. Funny as 'eck though ;D
The only problem is, if you feed him a little bit too much he goes into standby. He needs a little red light to indicate when he's in that mode, really. ;D
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All those who went to the OOF Newent meet a couple of years ago remember that Andy B and alcohol is not a good mix. Funny as 'eck though ;D
The only problem is, if you feed him a little bit too much he goes into standby. He needs a little red light to indicate when he's in that mode, really. ;D
I must've been entertaining if you're all still talking about it all this time later! ::) ::) ::)
and I behaved myself last year ;)
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Well you're buggered nowadays as we've stopped smoking. You can have a puff on my e-cigar if you want though.
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Well you're buggered nowadays as we've stopped smoking. You can have a puff on my e-cigar if you want though.
I have vague recollections of nicking a fag from you/Carol :-\
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Well you're buggered nowadays as we've stopped smoking. .....
well done to you both! :y :y :y
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All those who went to the OOF Newent meet a couple of years ago remember that Andy B and alcohol is not a good mix. Funny as 'eck though ;D
The only problem is, if you feed him a little bit too much he goes into standby. He needs a little red light to indicate when he's in that mode, really. ;D
I must've been entertaining if you're all still talking about it all this time later! ::) ::) ::)
and I behaved myself last year ;)
It was amusing because we were waiting for you to succumb to the human buccaroo.......in the end we gave up.
Then came last year and we hoped for a rerun...........ballcox ;D
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All those who went to the OOF Newent meet a couple of years ago remember that Andy B and alcohol is not a good mix. Funny as 'eck though ;D
The only problem is, if you feed him a little bit too much he goes into standby. He needs a little red light to indicate when he's in that mode, really. ;D
I must've been entertaining if you're all still talking about it all this time later! ::) ::) ::)
and I behaved myself last year ;)
It was amusing because we were waiting for you to succumb to the human buccaroo.......in the end we gave up.
Then came last year and we hoped for a rerun...........ballcox ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D