Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: ngrainqey on 13 March 2014, 15:54:34

Title: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: ngrainqey on 13 March 2014, 15:54:34
I don't know if it's been discussed much or properly but has anyone looked at either the 4L60-E or 5L40-E gearboxes? The 4l60 is on such as the Chevrolet blazer and the 5L40 is on the E39 BMW's?

The 4L60 could be a heavy duty alternative or the 5L40 would add another gear (obviously this would be subject to electronic limitations)

Anyway just thought I would ask
Alex
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: Nick W on 13 March 2014, 17:02:12
4L60 is for heavier duty applications; V8 engines and lots more weight and/or power. It simply isn't needed on a smallish engine like a V6. You'd be looking at some serious engineering to mate the two, not to mention the necessary programming to get everything to work. The cost of  all of that, not to mention just buying the gearbox would buy and fit several good AR35(4L30 I believe)  gearboxes. Don't forget a much bigger and stronger auto trans will absorb much power than a stock trans.

A fifth gear might be good to try, but they're usually needed for narrow power bands, which doesn't really apply to the V6. And a trans that is constantly shifting gears is tedious, no matter how smooth the change might be.
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: Kevin Wood on 13 March 2014, 17:24:05
Yep, the AR35 variant of the 4L30 is bomb proof on all Omega engines so it's difficult to see why an upgrade would be useful.

Quite apart from the difficulties in doing so... Auto boxes all have electronic control, and the gearbox ECU has to be closeley integrated with the engine ECU, and mapped to suit the vehicle application, before it'll work. That sort of thing can't be achieved on a DIY basis.
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: ngrainqey on 13 March 2014, 17:29:16
Was worth the thought, even if it was just to move the other gears to create a bit lower first gear and more of an overdrive type top gear, if you look at the diff ratios thread it looks like a massive gap between 2nd and 3rd
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 13 March 2014, 17:31:46
the only change worth spending on an omega trans is manual conversion ;D :D

Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: ngrainqey on 13 March 2014, 17:47:25
Lol yeah cem unless you can't drive manuals anymore  :'(
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: chrisgixer on 13 March 2014, 18:21:41
the only change worth spending on an omega trans is manual conversion ;D :D



Wrong! ;)
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 13 March 2014, 18:22:27
Lol yeah cem unless you can't drive manuals anymore  :'(

sorry to hear that :(
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: ngrainqey on 13 March 2014, 18:55:37
thanks cem but oh well!
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: 05omegav6 on 13 March 2014, 19:41:01
the only change worth spending on an omega trans is manual conversion ;D :D



Wrong! ;)
For once, he's not ;D

You just don't realise it yet :P
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: Vamps on 13 March 2014, 21:28:53
the only change worth spending on an omega trans is manual conversion ;D :D



Wrong! ;)
For once, he's not ;D

You just don't realise it yet :P

Auto is the only way to go.............. :y :y
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: TheBoy on 13 March 2014, 23:15:47
the only change worth spending on an omega trans is manual conversion ;D :D



Wrong! ;)
For once, he's not ;D

You just don't realise it yet :P
Normally I'd agree, but the Omega one is just so awful...
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: chrisgixer on 14 March 2014, 00:49:10
the only change worth spending on an omega trans is manual conversion ;D :D



Wrong! ;)
For once, he's not ;D

You just don't realise it yet :P

Precisely the opposite actually Mr Taxi Al sir.

The omega manual is utterly shocking. YOU just don't realise it yet. ;D

Blipping down changes aside. Which I do miss tbh, I really can't be arsed with an the omega Edwardian signal box. As you saw on that roundabout on the way the wim.

Off the motorway slip first exit, second gear.... Nah can't be bothered. Poodle round in fourth. Was probably quicker too. By the time I'd kneed meself in the chin, thrown the gear lever from the back seat, into the dash, and back again then kneed my chin again... Just not worth the agro.

What you forget is, the omega auto is quite good as auto's go. Where as the omega manual... Well it just isn't. Sorry. :(

Its a shame, ordinarily I'd agree. As does 2woody actually, having seen the traffic round these parts.
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: 05omegav6 on 14 March 2014, 01:02:45
2woody must have had a head cold when he said that ;D

Maybe it is just me :-\ on a good day, the gearchanges on mine are quick and smooth, but fluff the timing when pressing on and it becomes a faff. General running around and it's fine :y

That said, having driven nearly 170k in that car, it's a bit like a comfortable pair of shoes, or your favourite chair, you get in and instantly become part of it...
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: chrisgixer on 14 March 2014, 01:12:02
2woody must have had a head cold when he said that ;D

Maybe it is just me :-\ on a good day, the gearchanges on mine are quick and smooth, but fluff the timing when pressing on and it becomes a faff. General running around and it's fine :y

That said, having driven nearly 170k in that car, it's a bit like a comfortable pair of shoes, or your favourite chair, you get in and instantly become part of it...

He wasn't feeling to good iirc ;D and had just driven down from the "outer Hebrides" or where ever it is, and round the m25 in a manual Range Rover, with trailer, in horrendous traffic, having been let down on a car sale.

"... I see why you go for the auto, living round here" he said, with a harrumph. ;D

Not one of his better trips south. Bless him. :(
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 March 2014, 09:10:04
the only change worth spending on an omega trans is manual conversion ;D :D



Wrong! ;)
For once, he's not ;D

You just don't realise it yet :P
Normally I'd agree, but the Omega one is just so awful...


nothing can be as awful as a slipping autobox till 80 kms ;)
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 March 2014, 09:14:59
the only change worth spending on an omega trans is manual conversion ;D :D



Wrong! ;)
For once, he's not ;D

You just don't realise it yet :P

Precisely the opposite actually Mr Taxi Al sir.

The omega manual is utterly shocking. YOU just don't realise it yet. ;D

Blipping down changes aside. Which I do miss tbh, I really can't be arsed with an the omega Edwardian signal box. As you saw on that roundabout on the way the wim.

Off the motorway slip first exit, second gear.... Nah can't be bothered. Poodle round in fourth. Was probably quicker too. By the time I'd kneed meself in the chin, thrown the gear lever from the back seat, into the dash, and back again then kneed my chin again... Just not worth the agro.

What you forget is, the omega auto is quite good as auto's go. Where as the omega manual... Well it just isn't. Sorry. :(

Its a shame, ordinarily I'd agree. As does 2woody actually, having seen the traffic round these parts.


stop 2 omegas at a redlight one manual and one auto.. then hammer them up.. you will see the difference..


drive 2 omegas on an urban route one manual and one auto.. and measure the fuel consumed.. again you will see the difference..


if you base your comparison on performance and consumption, manual wins hands down..


Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 March 2014, 09:16:37
autos are for the old , who neither cares about performance nor consumption..
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 14 March 2014, 10:54:06
autos are for the old , who neither cares about performance nor consumption..

Or the 'infirm' as is the official Omega Owners Stance
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: Gaffers on 14 March 2014, 10:56:24
Fossil-fuelled cars have too many gears......one is enough for me ::)
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: chrisgixer on 14 March 2014, 12:26:35
the only change worth spending on an omega trans is manual conversion ;D :D



Wrong! ;)
For once, he's not ;D

You just don't realise it yet :P

Precisely the opposite actually Mr Taxi Al sir.

The omega manual is utterly shocking. YOU just don't realise it yet. ;D

Blipping down changes aside. Which I do miss tbh, I really can't be arsed with an the omega Edwardian signal box. As you saw on that roundabout on the way the wim.

Off the motorway slip first exit, second gear.... Nah can't be bothered. Poodle round in fourth. Was probably quicker too. By the time I'd kneed meself in the chin, thrown the gear lever from the back seat, into the dash, and back again then kneed my chin again... Just not worth the agro.

What you forget is, the omega auto is quite good as auto's go. Where as the omega manual... Well it just isn't. Sorry. :(

Its a shame, ordinarily I'd agree. As does 2woody actually, having seen the traffic round these parts.


stop 2 omegas at a redlight one manual and one auto.. then hammer them up.. you will see the difference..


drive 2 omegas on an urban route one manual and one auto.. and measure the fuel consumed.. again you will see the difference..


if you base your comparison on performance and consumption, manual wins hands down..




As said earlier in my post to Al. Obviously I've driven omega manuals, that's how I know they are poor compared to the omega auto, CEM. I heve "seen" the performance, I have "seen" the way they pull away, I have "seen" the economy.

And with economy that's the only point where it beats an auto.

In all otheres areas the manual looses out each time it's used. Takes longer to engage the clutch on pull away, due to the enooooormous pedal travel, and the manual drops further behind each on each gear change, due to the enoooormous pedal travel and the enoooormously long gear lever throw, as the auto changes gear quicker.

Duel mass fly wheel issues, gear box oil changes, and clutch maintenance tip the scales in the autos favour as well, on cost, time and schedule.
 Add in a built up area...

....its a no brainer cem. ::) ;D
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: chrisgixer on 14 March 2014, 12:29:02
autos are for the old , who neither cares about performance nor consumption..

Or the 'infirm' as is the official Omega Owners Stance

Shup, Mum bus! :P
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: 05omegav6 on 14 March 2014, 12:31:12
autos are for the old , who neither cares about performance nor consumption..

Or the 'infirm' as is the official Omega Owners Stance

Shup, Mum bus! :P
;D
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: chrisgixer on 14 March 2014, 12:31:46
the only change worth spending on an omega trans is manual conversion ;D :D



Wrong! ;)
For once, he's not ;D

You just don't realise it yet :P
Normally I'd agree, but the Omega one is just so awful...


nothing can be as awful as a slipping autobox till 80 kms ;)

Oof guidelines cem, observe the service intervals. ;)

Don't blame the car for poor owner servicing. ::)
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 14 March 2014, 12:32:32
Fossil-fuelled cars have too many gears......one is enough for me ::)

Now you really are kidding yourself.....assuming that the electricity you consume is non fossil fuel derived  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: 05omegav6 on 14 March 2014, 12:34:54
Think our Turkish correspondent meant 0-80 kmh or 50 in real money...

Slush boxes alway give the impression that they're slipping :-\
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: chrisgixer on 14 March 2014, 12:40:54
Think our Turkish correspondent meant 0-80 kmh or 50 in real money...

Slush boxes alway give the impression that they're slipping :-\

Now what was the excuse for the curry house run loss? I'm always in the wrong gear! Iirc? Wasn't it Al? Hmmm? ;)

(Nothing to do with not knowing the way of course ;D )
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: 05omegav6 on 14 March 2014, 12:46:27
 ;D

I was going with traffic and body roll... but will take local knowledge (or lack of ) ;D

Besides, you've met my brakes, and given I am always behind you, a bit of distance never hurt :y
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 14 March 2014, 12:50:42
autos are for the old , who neither cares about performance nor consumption..

Or the 'infirm' as is the official Omega Owners Stance

Shup, Mum bus! :P

Which has a gearbox rather the inards from an electric screwdriver, some old bands the postman dropped by the front door and a sludge pump.  ;D ;D :y
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: chrisgixer on 14 March 2014, 12:56:46
autos are for the old , who neither cares about performance nor consumption..

Or the 'infirm' as is the official Omega Owners Stance

Shup, Mum bus! :P

Which has a gearbox rather the inards from an electric screwdriver, some old bands the postman dropped by the front door and a sludge pump.  ;D ;D :y

No choice really, given the hopeless front wheel drive auto.


....oh wait, what am I saying. ;D

(Never go wrong wheel drive auto, IMO.)
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: chrisgixer on 14 March 2014, 12:57:43
....sludge pump...? ;D
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 March 2014, 13:00:37
the only change worth spending on an omega trans is manual conversion ;D :D



Wrong! ;)
For once, he's not ;D

You just don't realise it yet :P

Precisely the opposite actually Mr Taxi Al sir.

The omega manual is utterly shocking. YOU just don't realise it yet. ;D

Blipping down changes aside. Which I do miss tbh, I really can't be arsed with an the omega Edwardian signal box. As you saw on that roundabout on the way the wim.

Off the motorway slip first exit, second gear.... Nah can't be bothered. Poodle round in fourth. Was probably quicker too. By the time I'd kneed meself in the chin, thrown the gear lever from the back seat, into the dash, and back again then kneed my chin again... Just not worth the agro.

What you forget is, the omega auto is quite good as auto's go. Where as the omega manual... Well it just isn't. Sorry. :(

Its a shame, ordinarily I'd agree. As does 2woody actually, having seen the traffic round these parts.


stop 2 omegas at a redlight one manual and one auto.. then hammer them up.. you will see the difference..


drive 2 omegas on an urban route one manual and one auto.. and measure the fuel consumed.. again you will see the difference..


if you base your comparison on performance and consumption, manual wins hands down..




As said earlier in my post to Al. Obviously I've driven omega manuals, that's how I know they are poor compared to the omega auto, CEM. I heve "seen" the performance, I have "seen" the way they pull away, I have "seen" the economy.

And with economy that's the only point where it beats an auto.

In all otheres areas the manual looses out each time it's used. Takes longer to engage the clutch on pull away, due to the enooooormous pedal travel, and the manual drops further behind each on each gear change, due to the enoooormous pedal travel and the enoooormously long gear lever throw, as the auto changes gear quicker.

Duel mass fly wheel issues, gear box oil changes, and clutch maintenance tip the scales in the autos favour as well, on cost, time and schedule.
 Add in a built up area...

....its a no brainer cem. ::) ;D


seems like you were watching the ceiling while driving because you have seen nothing!  ;D ;D 


that enormous pedal travel can be shortened , which I had done..


and I dont have dual mass flywheel issue ;D  because there isnt any!


and as for the shifting speed, I wish you were here and would have a test on manual versus auto with me :)  may be one day..
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 March 2014, 13:02:56
Think our Turkish correspondent meant 0-80 kmh or 50 in real money...

Slush boxes alway give the impression that they're slipping :-\


nope.. autobox locks up at 80 kms/hr or 50 miles etc etc..
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 March 2014, 13:06:14
the only change worth spending on an omega trans is manual conversion ;D :D



Wrong! ;)
For once, he's not ;D

You just don't realise it yet :P
Normally I'd agree, but the Omega one is just so awful...


nothing can be as awful as a slipping autobox till 80 kms ;)

Oof guidelines cem, observe the service intervals. ;)

Don't blame the car for poor owner servicing. ::)


really..


I have spent  a sum equal to own a real fleet of newish omegas just for service (with UK prices)..  and for your info I have sold the autobox for nearly 600£ as it was in good condition..
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: 05omegav6 on 14 March 2014, 13:06:48
Ah, if I had one I would probably know that :D
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 March 2014, 13:09:40
for your information I currently have 2 omegas now.. mine with manual, another 2.5 (facelift) with newly built auto tranny and newly built engine..  there is a huuuge difference..
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: chrisgixer on 14 March 2014, 13:12:45
for your information I currently have 2 omegas now.. mine with manual, another 2.5 (facelift) with newly built auto tranny and newly built engine..  there is a huuuge difference..

Indeed there is. The auto is far superior in every way. ;D

Except economy.

But then I have lpg, so who cares...? ;)
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 March 2014, 13:14:34
for your information I currently have 2 omegas now.. mine with manual, another 2.5 (facelift) with newly built auto tranny and newly built engine..  there is a huuuge difference..

Indeed there is. The auto is far superior in every way. ;D

Except economy.

But then I have lpg, so who cares...? ;)


in your dreams ;D
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: chrisgixer on 14 March 2014, 13:16:14
for your information I currently have 2 omegas now.. mine with manual, another 2.5 (facelift) with newly built auto tranny and newly built engine..  there is a huuuge difference..

Indeed there is. The auto is far superior in every way. ;D

Except economy.

But then I have lpg, so who cares...? ;)


in your dreams ;D
No, I really do have lpg, I fitted it. ;D
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: ngrainqey on 14 March 2014, 18:14:22
I want E85 though chris :P lol
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: chrisgixer on 14 March 2014, 18:25:13
I want E85 though chris :P lol

No, you want a CAR capable of running E85.
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: ngrainqey on 14 March 2014, 18:55:21
lol yeah! with a V8?  :D
Title: Re: Autobox upgrade on the omegas...
Post by: chrisgixer on 14 March 2014, 18:57:16
lol yeah! with a V8?  :D

Off to Ausy touring cars with you then. :)