Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: cd 2.2 on 14 March 2014, 00:37:57

Title: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: cd 2.2 on 14 March 2014, 00:37:57
Right I changed the radiator on my 2.2 auto very recently and noticed when I removed the gearbox oil cooler that the oil in it, was very brown.
I am led to believe that the gearbox oil should be a more pinkish colour. I have been having some shifting issues (mainly dropping 3rd gear).
Today I took the car out for a long drive (160 miles round trip) as we felt like going to see friends out in Lincolnshire, most of the way there any time we needed 3rd gear it was playing up ... Until a little old lady in a Rav 4 decided that a very high 2 digit number close to 100mph  :o would be fun over the Gainsborough top roads into Louth! During this fun I notice that when the box changes into top gear, under heavy load, it slips just a little.

Am I barking up the right tree thinking that it is most likely the gearbox oil at fault ?? The car has now covered 117130 miles and no evidence of gearbox oil change at any point ... What oil can I use (is any Dexron 3 good enough) and where do you get a gearbox oil filter from? My local Vx dealer says they have no filter and no part similar too a filter (they quoted £107 +v.a.t to change the oil)

Cheers in advance Graham
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: Steve B on 14 March 2014, 00:50:11
Here is how the jobs done.

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90664.0

IMHO Dont use the comma fluid,  :y

Most seem to clean the filter. Dont think there cheap

A short cut around the job can be done through the oil cooler pipes
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: 05omegav6 on 14 March 2014, 00:52:55
Quick check...

Rub some of the oil between your finger and thumb. It should be gritty. If it's smooth or smells burnt then it's toast :y
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: Steve B on 14 March 2014, 00:53:59
Quick check...

Rub some of the oil between your finger and thumb. It should be gritty. If it's smooth or smells burnt then it's toast :y
Its brown  :y
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: chrisgixer on 14 March 2014, 01:03:35
Colour is tricky. Its dark red out of the bottle, and will immediately darken more depending on how much oil is still in the system on a used box. Which will be a fair amount as the torque converter holds a few litres, so you never get it all out using the guide method.

Yours may just be low on oil, if slipping, as the fluid can't reach the pick up.

But certainly, without doubt, if that's the original ATF, it needs changing. 60-80k tops.

2 x 5 litre cans of Fuchs Titan Dex 3, clean the filter, gaskets are easier if you can get them, and more reliable than a sealant/instant gasket which tend to leak after a while, ime.
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: chrisgixer on 14 March 2014, 01:14:45
2.2 auto box is more often upset by cam sensor faults, so worth reading the codes as well. ;)
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: cd 2.2 on 14 March 2014, 20:57:49
Thanks for all your responses guys! The gearbox oil doesn't feel gritty in any way and I vaguely  remember it smelly kind of nasty. I'm not looking forward to this job as it looks time consuming more than anything else

Again, thanks for your replies, Graham
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: Entwood on 14 March 2014, 21:04:48
Thanks for all your responses guys! The gearbox oil doesn't feel gritty in any way and I vaguely  remember it smelly kind of nasty. I'm not looking forward to this job as it looks time consuming more than anything else

Again, thanks for your replies, Graham

The higher you can get the car the easier the job !! :)  Its not difficult, but on axle stands its just awkward, luckily the last time I did mine was at an OOF meet with a full vehicle lift .... made life dead simple to get to everything. To refill use a pump up garden sprayer with the spray lance removed so the pipe goes into the filling hole .. makes life soooo  much easier .. :)
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: SIR Philbutt on 14 March 2014, 21:34:24
Not changing to or "thumping" into 3rd gear can be caused by bad or low fluid, BUT, can also be caused by the solonoid failing in the box.

The cam sensor can affect it but IMO less common and other problems would be happening and there may be codes stored

The solonoid was what turned out to be the cause of this on my old mig, after changing the cam sensor, fluid and filter

IME I would suggest you suck or syphon what fluid you can out of the box through the sump plug and refill as per the guide and see if this improves things. Reason being that if you are going to take off the sump and do the filter etc this is also your access to the solonoid which you can swop at the same time

HTH
Phil
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: cd 2.2 on 14 March 2014, 22:09:06
Not changing to or "thumping" into 3rd gear can be caused by bad or low fluid, BUT, can also be caused by the solonoid failing in the box.

The cam sensor can affect it but IMO less common and other problems would be happening and there may be codes stored

The solonoid was what turned out to be the cause of this on my old mig, after changing the cam sensor, fluid and filter

IME I would suggest you suck or syphon what fluid you can out of the box through the sump plug and refill as per the guide and see if this improves things. Reason being that if you are going to take off the sump and do the filter etc this is also your access to the solonoid which you can swop at the same time

HTH
Phil

Cheers phil ... can you get the solenoids new from VX do you know? ... May be worth getting this checked out BEFORE I do anything with the oil ??? 
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: SIR Philbutt on 15 March 2014, 20:09:17
Not changing to or "thumping" into 3rd gear can be caused by bad or low fluid, BUT, can also be caused by the solonoid failing in the box.

The cam sensor can affect it but IMO less common and other problems would be happening and there may be codes stored

The solonoid was what turned out to be the cause of this on my old mig, after changing the cam sensor, fluid and filter

IME I would suggest you suck or syphon what fluid you can out of the box through the sump plug and refill as per the guide and see if this improves things. Reason being that if you are going to take off the sump and do the filter etc this is also your access to the solonoid which you can swop at the same time

HTH
Phil

Cheers phil ... can you get the solenoids new from VX do you know? ... May be worth getting this checked out BEFORE I do anything with the oil ???

Have not actually bought one, bought another mig instead  :o.
Did read on here that you can but some time ago
Put a wanted add in the section and see what you get
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: TheBoy on 16 March 2014, 09:18:04
Checking the level would be a start. If its obviously very lower, then a fluid change may well sort it.

Don't delay too much, as that slip is doing it no favours.
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: Shackeng on 16 March 2014, 10:47:32
ATF Dex III still only £42.95 +VAT for 20l on TC.
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: Shackeng on 16 March 2014, 10:50:51
ATF Dex III still only £42.95 +VAT for 20l on TC.

OOPs sorry double digit trouble! :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: cd 2.2 on 16 March 2014, 12:53:18
That's not so bad  ... What's TC?
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: cd 2.2 on 16 March 2014, 16:30:31
I just got a 1 ltr bottle of halfords GM Dexron III for £7.99, Going to go and see if it's low in a sec as it's really easy to access. Bonus being I don't need to jack the car up to do the job  :)

I see what you mean by the oil should feel gritty when it's good ... I would describe it more as a grippy though (very strange stuff) !
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: cd 2.2 on 16 March 2014, 16:44:26
Ummmm ..... I just removed the level plug (rear drivers side of gearbox sump), Oil immediately started to pour out of the hole  ???
The engine and box are both warm as it's just sat after going on a short run. The oil in there smells a little bit like play-doh and still feels fairly grippy!
What should I do at this point??? I'm totally confused now
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: Shackeng on 16 March 2014, 16:50:57
That's not so bad  ... What's TC?

Trade Club from stealers. :y
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: Andy H on 16 March 2014, 16:52:28
Ummmm ..... I just removed the level plug (rear drivers side of gearbox sump), Oil immediately started to pour out of the hole  ???
The engine and box are both warm as it's just sat after going on a short run. The oil in there smells a little bit like play-doh and still feels fairly grippy!
What should I do at this point??? I'm totally confused now
Did you keep the engine running and move the selector through all the gears before removing the level plug (as per the guide)?
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: cd 2.2 on 16 March 2014, 16:57:16
no I will try that now ... (what a dumb ass) ... If oil is still overfull do I just keep engine running until it stops coming out of level plug?
 
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: Andy H on 16 March 2014, 17:03:49
When the engine is running, the pump in the gearbox pumps ATF up into the inner workings of the gearbox. When stopped the fluid drains back and gives a misleadingly high level in the oil pan.

With the engine running top the level up again (and replace the fluid you lost earlier)

It won't be overfull.........
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: cd 2.2 on 16 March 2014, 17:05:06
Thanks guys  :y I would be so lost without your advice at times  :D
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: Andy B on 16 March 2014, 17:12:07
That's not so bad  ... What's TC?

TC = Trade Club (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90491.0)  :y  :y
Title: Re: I think my auto box oil is dead?
Post by: cd 2.2 on 16 March 2014, 17:37:16
Problem seems to have been fixed  :y It took just over half a litre to get the box full and the difference is really noticeable! No more thumping changes, no more missing 3rd on the change up (time will tell if the problem is going to come back) and above all else the car is loads quieter  8)

I will definitely get a pressure sprayer when I come around to changing the box oil as it seems like it's getting ready! To top the box up is achievable with no jacking or ramps and I did mine with the car sat on the floor (not saying it's the easiest job that way though) :)

Once again Thanks guys  :y