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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Gaffers on 15 April 2014, 21:33:47

Title: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: Gaffers on 15 April 2014, 21:33:47
I agree with the majority of this article, I still have reservations about riding in packs but that's my own (minority among cyclists) opinion.

http://www.motoring.co.uk/car-news/cyclists-why-do-they-ride-in-the-middle-of-the-road-_62617 (http://www.motoring.co.uk/car-news/cyclists-why-do-they-ride-in-the-middle-of-the-road-_62617)

Once more in to the breech........ ;D
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: Rods2 on 15 April 2014, 21:56:14
I agree with the majority of this article, I still have reservations about riding in packs but that's my own (minority among cyclists) opinion.

http://www.motoring.co.uk/car-news/cyclists-why-do-they-ride-in-the-middle-of-the-road-_62617 (http://www.motoring.co.uk/car-news/cyclists-why-do-they-ride-in-the-middle-of-the-road-_62617)

Once more in to the breech........ ;D

I agree having been a long term cyclist and club cyclist, motorcyclist and car driver. I know how vulnerable I am as a cyclist and motorcyclist and try and ride as safely as possible, in an accident with car, van bus or lorry, regardless of whose fault it is it is me that is going to get hurt. I generally find the worst motorists are some taxi drivers, school run women and older men. Lorry, van and enthusiast car drivers I generally find are the most safe and courteous.

I've no time for red light runners, those that ride or park on pavements, are inconsiderate to pedestrians on shared pavement and cycleways. Bad inconsiderate illegal, careless, dangerous driving is just that regardless of your vehicle. Too many cyclists seem to think they are invincible and car drivers seem to forget that they are driving a 1 to 2 tonne piece of metal that can and does kill.

Most people don't realise travelling about, regardless of the mode of transport is the MOST dangerous day-to-day thing that we all do and 1 in 200 will die in their lifetime as a result.  :'(
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: RobG on 15 April 2014, 22:03:13
Quote
Cyclists, in law, operate “carriages”, and have done since a court case in 1879. And, as operators of vehicles they have as much right to the whole lane as a motorist.
Pity they weren`t required by law to have some level of insurance then ???
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: Bigron on 15 April 2014, 22:06:46
Surely both cyclists and equestrians are inappropriate to today's roads and traffic conditions? As they make no contribution to road costs and are not licensed - therefore not answerable for their misdeeds as motorists are - and cannot be banned, it is time to consider whether they should be on the road at all.
In fact, they often are not, preferring to ride illegally on the pavements and/or ignoring traffic lights, etc.
Those cyclists who are also drivers will try to counter the above by saying that they paid road tax as well, but they pay as MOTORISTS, not cyclists.

Ron.
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: Gaffers on 15 April 2014, 22:08:05
Quote
Cyclists, in law, operate “carriages”, and have done since a court case in 1879. And, as operators of vehicles they have as much right to the whole lane as a motorist.
Pity they weren`t required by law to have some level of insurance then ???

Last count, I was insured 3 times over for riding a bike.  Most people are insured for it without even realising it :y
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: RobG on 15 April 2014, 22:08:53
Quote
Cyclists, in law, operate “carriages”, and have done since a court case in 1879. And, as operators of vehicles they have as much right to the whole lane as a motorist.
Pity they weren`t required by law to have some level of insurance then ???

Last count, I was insured 3 times over for riding a bike.  Most people are insured for it without even realising it :y
House insurance perchance??
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: Gaffers on 15 April 2014, 22:10:08
Those cyclists who are also drivers will try to counter the above by saying that they paid road tax as well, but they pay as MOTORISTS, not cyclists.

Ron.

Ah, but they pay the same while damaging the road less. In fact I am wrong, I pay no |VED on my Leaf, so by your reckoning I should rive that on the pavements too? ???
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: Gaffers on 15 April 2014, 22:11:05
Quote
Cyclists, in law, operate “carriages”, and have done since a court case in 1879. And, as operators of vehicles they have as much right to the whole lane as a motorist.
Pity they weren`t required by law to have some level of insurance then ???

Last count, I was insured 3 times over for riding a bike.  Most people are insured for it without even realising it :y
House insurance perchance??

And club insurance, CTC membership insurance and Triathlon England insurance....break!  4 times now!
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: Entwood on 15 April 2014, 22:14:02
Surely both cyclists and equestrians are inappropriate to today's roads and traffic conditions? As they make no contribution to road costs and are not licensed - therefore not answerable for their misdeeds as motorists are - and cannot be banned, it is time to consider whether they should be on the road at all.
In fact, they often are not, preferring to ride illegally on the pavements and/or ignoring traffic lights, etc.
Those cyclists who are also drivers will try to counter the above by saying that they paid road tax as well, but they pay as MOTORISTS, not cyclists.

Ron.

Are you really suggesting that 12 year olds should pay road tax ?? (many 12 year olds ride bikes around the estate in a safe and enjoyable fashion)

next you'll want a tax on pedestrians who just "might" walk on "your" road ???

The Queens Highway is open to everyone to use .. be it in a Maserati or on a Penny Farthing, on a horse or "Shanks's Pony" ... it belongs to no user group at all  :(
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: Andy B on 15 April 2014, 22:23:10

But many cyclists don't help themselves by doing any/all of the above stupid actions of either jumping red lights & riding with no lights or a single pathetic light on their back/tucked under a saddle that's virtually invisible. If there's a pothole in front of them, it'd be a good idea for self preservation if nothing else, to look over their shoulder before moving out ....... you would in a car, so why not on a cycle when the danger is injury is so much more if you f**k up.
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: Rods2 on 15 April 2014, 22:37:53
Surely both cyclists and equestrians are inappropriate to today's roads and traffic conditions? As they make no contribution to road costs and are not licensed - therefore not answerable for their misdeeds as motorists are - and cannot be banned, it is time to consider whether they should be on the road at all.
In fact, they often are not, preferring to ride illegally on the pavements and/or ignoring traffic lights, etc.
Those cyclists who are also drivers will try to counter the above by saying that they paid road tax as well, but they pay as MOTORISTS, not cyclists.

Ron.

That was abolished in 1937 and replaced by Vehicle Excise Duty, the tax is on the vehicle not the road! This BBC article explains the tax clearly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23694438 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23694438)
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: 05omegav6 on 15 April 2014, 23:08:32
Is Carlton Reid your pseudonym?

Packs of cyclists are a calamity waiting to happen... riding side by side on anything but a dual carriageway is almost suicidal. If one person wobbles, then there is serious potential to cause the person riding next to you into oncoming/overtaking traffic... scooter riders are as bad for this imho :-\

Otherwise, a sensible piece of journalism :y
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: chrisgixer on 16 April 2014, 08:41:54
Quote
Cyclists, in law, operate “carriages”, and have done since a court case in 1879. And, as operators of vehicles they have as much right to the whole lane as a motorist.
Pity they weren`t required by law to have some level of insurance then ???
Carriages two abreast would be an offence in most places. ...unless your a cyclist. Law needs an update IMO.

My old landlord was a driving instructor. He once complained "you didn't leave me room to get through" by a 20ft long traffic island. I used to cycle to work and often arrived home at similar times.

That's right, I didn't. ::) I replied.
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 16 April 2014, 09:39:07
The 'Holier than thou' attitude of the cycling brigade gets on my tits to be honest!  >:(

Better education for all road users is what's needed, maybe in the form of some 1970's style public information films.  Some headcam footage to show drivers what it is like riding a bike on a busy road might be an idea and a good demonstration of why it's not clever for cyclists to creep up the inside of a HGV.  ::)  :)
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: Kevin Wood on 16 April 2014, 09:43:40
Is Carlton Reid your pseudonym?

Packs of cyclists are a calamity waiting to happen... riding side by side on anything but a dual carriageway is almost suicidal. If one person wobbles, then there is serious potential to cause the person riding next to you into oncoming/overtaking traffic... scooter riders are as bad for this imho :-\

Otherwise, a sensible piece of journalism :y

Indeed. I cycle quite a bit and agree with most of the article, but cycling 2 abreast or in "packs" displays just the kind of lack of consideration to other road users that cyclists bleat about constantly. If you're in a group, the most sensible, considerate and safe way to cycle is to break yourself up into smaller groups of 2 or 3 who can easily and safely be overtaken by faster traffic, leaving gaps in-between into which a vehicle can pull if required.

Of course, there seems to be a breed of MAMIL who feel the need to demonstrate that they can both hold position in a tight formation and have a natter while exercising where less super-human suspects would be consumed with the need to breathe, stay on the bike and avoid having a coronary event. ::)
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: chrisgixer on 16 April 2014, 09:46:42
Yes if they are chatting then THEY AINT TRYING HARD ENOUGH  >:(

;D
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: YZ250 on 16 April 2014, 10:48:58
................
Indeed. I cycle quite a bit and agree with most of the article, but cycling 2 abreast or in "packs" displays just the kind of lack of consideration to other road users that cyclists bleat about constantly. If you're in a group, the most sensible, considerate and safe way to cycle is to break yourself up into smaller groups of 2 or 3 who can easily and safely be overtaken by faster traffic, leaving gaps in-between into which a vehicle can pull if required.
..........

This is what I suggested to a chap at work during one of our 'cycle banter' sessions. He cycles, both to work and with a club, so is passionate about cycling, thus making an easy target for friendly banter. So, I was very surprised when he admitted to me that they had been stopped by the Police for ......... a riding style that was deemed selfish to other road users. Not an offence as far as I know, but frustrating for others if you get stuck behind a long line of them.

I do give cyclists plenty of room, but I'm still amazed by these super fast cyclists that fly through the traffic. A bit of common sense from all parties is all that's required.  :y
If cyclists were included in the no undertaking guidelines, I feel there would be less danger to them, but clearly this would defeat the object for most cyclists travelling through heavy traffic.  ::)

Must admit, I do smile when I see a cycling thread on here, as I know you are all sooooo tolerant of cyclists.   ;) ;D ;D
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: chrisgixer on 16 April 2014, 11:56:13
As a cyclist over many years ( ;D )... I don't ride on the road. I might cross the road, or use a road if there's no alternative. But it's just not worth the agro otherwise.
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: Gaffers on 16 April 2014, 12:56:57
Must admit, I do smile when I see a cycling thread on here, as I know you are all sooooo tolerant of cyclists.   ;) ;D ;D

Really?  I hadn't noticed....  ::)

....... cycling 2 abreast or in "packs" displays just the kind of lack of consideration to other road users that cyclists bleat about constantly. If you're in a group, the most sensible, considerate and safe way to cycle is to break yourself up into smaller groups of 2 or 3 who can easily and safely be overtaken by faster traffic, leaving gaps in-between into which a vehicle can pull if required.

Indeed I can count on one finger the number of times i have ridden in a group of more than 3.  I wasn't comfortable riding in close formation on narrow roads.  Eventually I peeled off and took my own route.

Of course, there seems to be a breed of MAMIL who feel the need to demonstrate that they can both hold position in a tight formation and have a natter while exercising where less super-human suspects would be consumed with the need to breathe, stay on the bike and avoid having a coronary event. ::)

True, and I refer to the above.  I like the idea of breking up in to smaller sub-groups but I doubt many cyclists would even think about it let alone actually remember to do it.

And on the subject of reckless riding, it gets my goat.  I had a go at a commuter cyclist last night who rode through 2 sets of red lights.  I caught up and told him that they were for bikes as much as for motor vehicles to which he replied 'But I am faster this way'.  I told him to get a better set of legs instead of giving us all a bad name before leaving him for dust.  Despite him going through several other red lights he never caught up.

I will say one thing though.  I have been commuting 50km a day here in Lyon for the past few weeks and I must say how much safer it is here.  The general standard of driving is just as bad as the UK but most drivers here are pretty respectful of cyclists.  I very rarely get a punishment pass, even trucks will hold back when it is too narrow rather than force me in to the verge.  I was speaking to colleagues who said that the 'Boris bike' phenomenon has meant more novice cyclists riding on the roads/pavements and doing silly things, but most french drivers distinguish between those of us who are experienced cyclists and these idiots.  It seems that for those out here who take cycling seriously, the 2 way street of understanding and respect does work.  Time to get it going in the UK :y
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: Rods2 on 16 April 2014, 18:16:30
I don't know if the law is still the same as when I used to do a lot of cycling in France, but where cycling is a national sport, if a motorist has an accident with a cyclist it is automatically the motorists fault. Thats why they normally give you far more respect, than they would another motorist.

Most of the French cycle lanes I've come across are also how they should be done, segregated from traffic and pedestrians with a minimal amount of giving way.  :y :y :y
Title: Re: A decent and well written article on the subject of cycling on UK roads
Post by: Gaffers on 16 April 2014, 19:27:17
Most of the French cycle lanes I've come across are also how they should be done, segregated from traffic and pedestrians with a minimal amount of giving way.  :y :y :y

Not anymore.  I'll take some pics over the next week or so......