Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: ffcgary1 on 25 April 2014, 22:29:51
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Good even all,
i have been fortunate to drive both varients of car and both had about the same mileage on them, around, about 70,000 miles,and both v6's and the face lift car was so much nicer to drive than the earlier car.
Now i know that the cars share the same chasiss and subframe assy and the shocks and springs are the same with the exception of MV6 models, my question is what makes the facelift so different to drive, the steering to all intence and pouposes is the same.
where changes made to the body shell in terms of stiffness or is it down to upgraded suspension bushes front and rear.?
Gary.
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Nope. How many years between them...? And what trim level are we talking about? Elite and mv6 are very different. With the standard spec models, of cd cdx etc, in between.
A certain admin will probably say his 03 face lift handles much worse than his 99 pre face lift mv6. Totally unfair f course as the "lazy bloody admin" hasn't spent the time sorting the niggles out of the newer car, which is an Elite. Probably the least suitable model in the omega range given his driving style.
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The pre f/l was gls spec and the f/l was cdx spec so not a great deal of difference just trim levels.
the cars where about 5 years apart in terms of age.
There is a difference, the only thing i can say from personal experiance is the f/l car felt so much more planted than the earlier car with less body roll.
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I can't believe TB isn't all over this!
He must be busy :D
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I must add that both cars where riding on 225/55/16 tyres and before you aski dont know what the tyres were. ;D
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Having now own my F/L Elite for around 6 months now and covered 10k I can say its growing on me.The old 98 MFL Elite handled well and did all I could of asked for ,but do agree the ride was slightly more floaty,despite all bushes/suspension etc being attended to .The new FL has had rear bushes replaced along with front anti roll bars just as a matter of course but the ride does seem tighter and "just more modern" :y
Still trying to come to terms with the newere dash layout as found the older model just nicer and less plasticy and as for the horrible rubber door trims etc ,well they are just nasty compared to the much nicer leather door cards and wood effect trim.
Honest opinion is both models have their plus points as well as negatives,but for comfort I think the F/L wins but for cabin stylethe MFL is the better
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Often wondered about the ride, cant tell musch difference myself but SWMBO always complains about travel sickness in the F/L CD Saloon, but never did in the PFL GLS estate. Maybe it was the extra interior space. :-\
I've still got the saloon after 10 years regardless of the complaining. I just have to turn the stereo up. ;D ;D
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The pre f/l was gls spec and the f/l was cdx spec so not a great deal of difference just trim levels.
the cars where about 5 years apart in terms of age.
There is a difference, the only thing i can say from personal experiance is the f/l car felt so much more planted than the earlier car with less body roll.
Any history on the suspension? Is it standard, as it should be?
If so, probably looking at tired suspension and probably bushes.
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I have had 4 omegas . . . 2 x MFL elites 3.0 & 2.5 1 x FL elite 3.0 & the present 2.6 FL MV6
My opinion would be that my first one , the 3.0 MFL, was the best all round car , but that may be of course because I was
bitten by the omega bug with that car . The second omega was a FL 3.0 elite, my opinion of that one was it felt a lot more
of a firmer ride with a lot less "roll" & much better handling all round . But there was a rumour that the very first FL elites (
some 50 in number) were produced with LSC as per MV6 but with Air shocks :-\ I recall that there was plenty of discussion
on here back then about this , as this car had a ride height of 660mm. Also on the V5 the car was called MV6 Elite
My 3rd was a nice MFL 2.5 elite which leaked a bit, but only went because of the deal I got the latest Black 2.6 FL MV6.
IMO I think that possibly the difference in wheel size & tyre profile 16" to 17" may cause part of this slightly "harsher"
ride . Be interesting to test a FL elite or MV6 on 16" wheels :-\
I like the present MV6 & have now got used to the firmness which goes with the better handling .
The real downer for me on the FL models is the "soft rubber " & plastic looking finish to the interior . . . disaster :( :(
If i was ever was offered a real nice MFL 3.0 elite . . . I think I would have to have it ::) ::)
I can just here SWMBO saying . . . . "OH NO . . . not another one ! " ;D ;D ;D
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Got to agree with you Al.
I cover huge miles and found the older MFL Elite fitted with 17,s was a nice ride but would be decribed as quite harsh although did handle well.Interior was just nice and a very pleasant place to spend a fair bit of your working day. :y
The new F/Elite whilst it is a 3.2 so has more grunt is just a smoother more refined drive with less roll and much more predicatable handling and braking.The downside is the interior :(,which whilst it is in very very good condition with only light wear to the drivers door trim ,just all seems a bit sticky plastic and not commanding the original price tag for a "flag ship model".If I could transfer the door cards from a MFL to the FL sure that would tidy things up but switches for mirrors and windows are compatable so unless I can bring myself to pull all the door cards apart and give them some treatment I will just have to live with it ,although sure in time like most things they become the norm.
Other than that I don,t regret owning the newer model and if she covers another 230k like old Elite will consider the money well spent. ;) :)
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Got to agree with you Al.
I cover huge miles and found the older MFL Elite fitted with 17,s was a nice ride but would be decribed as quite harsh although did handle well.Interior was just nice and a very pleasant place to spend a fair bit of your working day. :y
The new F/Elite whilst it is a 3.2 so has more grunt is just a smoother more refined drive with less roll and much more predicatable handling and braking.The downside is the interior :(,which whilst it is in very very good condition with only light wear to the drivers door trim ,just all seems a bit sticky plastic and not commanding the original price tag for a "flag ship model".If I could transfer the door cards from a MFL to the FL sure that would tidy things up but switches for mirrors and windows are compatable so unless I can bring myself to pull all the door cards apart and give them some treatment I will just have to live with it ,although sure in time like most things they become the norm.
Other than that I don,t regret owning the newer model and if she covers another 230k like old Elite will consider the money well spent. ;) :)
Ah right , . . . so you fitted your old 2.5 elite MFL with 17's & 45 profile tyres ? From your post, it seems to confirm the lower profile makes for a slightly harsher ride then compared to the standard 16" wheels with the higher profile tyres ?
Interesting point that . . . . i wonder if Chris Gixers 3.2 Elite on 18" rims & 40 profile tyres feels even more harsh ? :-\ :-\
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I can't believe TB isn't all over this!
He must be busy :D
I am. Very :'(
But everyone knows the PFL is superior in every way, except corrosion. I base my experiences on the 3 PFL I've owned and the 2 FL I've owned. FL let down by some silly design issues inside, and too much penny pinching.
As to ride quality, they should be similar, assuming same spec suspension, wheels etc. FL larger door mirrors supposed to reduce wind noise, but I think increase it, and offer no additional visibility, yet make them more prone to clipping.
Looks are a personal thing. The rear end of a FL has grown on me over the years, but it needs the lip spoiler IMHO. The front end is every bit as pig ugly as an Astra-G
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Yes Al...both were running identical tyre size/ widths..235/45/17 on Irmscher Ronal rims on the MFL 2.5 Elite,all 4 being perfectly round ;D and Standard F/L 6 spoke on the 3.2.
Both have/had working self levelling suspension with correct springs.Did replace wishbones/TRE on the 2.5 but as bought on the 3.2 as all seem fine,although do have new Lemforders as complete set when the time comes to replace them as found a great deal with somebody selling the entire job lot for give away money sometime ago ;)
Agree regarding the more US styling on the bodywork on the F/L but did like the extra bits of chrome/plastic coloured trim on the MFL.
Difficult to pick a better/worse car as liked/like them both so I am on the fence with the final judgement,but must say the 3.2 makes me grin slightly more when the loud pedal is firmly pushed down ;D
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Not sure that wheel size alone actually affects the ride that much tbh :-\
The wheel base is unchanged and ultimately that is a significant factor in the cars waftability. Drive a Bm 1 series and a 5 or 7 back to back and you'll see what I mean...
Although they're a broadly similar shape (no surprise there seeing as the shells are identical ::)), the P/Mfl is starting to look a bit dated compared to some cars of a similar vintage, whereas the FL still looks pretty good IMHO :y
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See what you mean about the MFL staring to look slightly dated what with the chrome/plastic trims ,although still a nice car if in good condition.
FL so similar to most modern cars now with stock uniform colour on all parts,its just the interior that lets it down imho despite me being swayed to part with cash for another
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Looks are a personal thing. The rear end of a FL has grown on me over the years, but it needs the lip spoiler IMHO. The front end is every bit as pig ugly as an Astra-G
What he said ;D Never been a fan of the FL , just dont like the cheap looking interiors and they spoilt the front end making it look too much like the astra :(
My current PF 4.0 3.0 mv is the best ive owned and of course the best looking even if it is getting on a bit ::)
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i agree with everthing you say about the interiors but the cars feel so different to drive, so we need to compare 2 like for like cars and define why the cars are different, who on here has had 2 cars of the same spec but both varients.
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The front end is every bit as pig ugly as an Astra-G ...
That's my line ........ :o
;D ;D ;D
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The front end is every bit as pig ugly as an Astra-G ...
That's my line ........ :o
;D ;D ;D
:D ;D ;D
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I've had a 3.0 MFL Elite & a 3.0 FL Elite . . but that FL was a strange one as it sat at 660mm ride height, so maybe not the best example to compare :-\
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I've had a 3.0 MFL Elite & a 3.0 FL Elite . . but that FL was a strange one as it sat at 660mm ride height, so maybe not the best example to compare :-\
Edit: this was in reply to ffcgary1 's question :-[
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We have had a number of both, can't compare direct models, but from an interior / exterior point of view I much prefer the pfl to the later cars........... :y
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Some years ago I had a pfl 3.0l Elite,now I have a 3.0l fl Elite.From what I can recall the fl does handle slightly the better,although how good/poor the suspension bushes etc.were/are on either car I couldn't say as I've not had to replace any on either car.Exterior wise I will own up and say that for me the fl car is by far and away the better looking car over the earlier cars.Interior wise given the choice I'd have the mfl version.Maybe if it were possible to arrange then 3[or more]members with a version of each could get together and drive each others cars round a predetermined route[not a race just a mix of roads]and then compare notes?I know the Omega is not the best handling car in the world and can be a bit roly-poly[especially in Elite guise]but I find that if set up properly for corners it can be hustled along quite nicely and surprise quite a few other cars.
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sounds like a plan baza, we should take this further. :y
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Happy to be available for the experiment ;) with a factory stock 2003 3.2 Elite fitted as it left the factory.
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I have a stock 1997 2.5 v6 estate. so we need a facelift estate, 2.5 and a preface lift 3.0 elite saloon to go with amba's elite saloon. CC NOT TO IMPORTANT as long as a pair of v6 or 4 pot saloon or estate. to compare
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PRE FACELIFT ESTATE V6=FFCGARY1 FACELIFT ESTATE V6 ........................
PRE FACELIFT ELITE SALOON V6 ................. FACELIFT ELITE SALOON V6 = AMBA....
PRE FACELIFT ESTATE 2.0/2.2 .................... FACELIFT ESTATE 2.0/2.2...................
PRE FACELIFT SALOON 2.0/2.2 .................. FACELIFTE SALOON 2.0/2.2 .................
PRE FACELIFT SALOON MV6 ....................... FACELIFT SALOON MV6 .................
PRE FACELIFT ESTATE MV6 ........................ FACELIFT ESTATE MV6 .......................
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You forgot plod...
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have we any members with both types of plod cars,? josh perhaps but sure his are all f/l.
if so they are more than welcome as are any oil burners. :y
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Josh has an umolested one of each FL saloon and estate :y I would nominate mine, but although the shocks/springs are standard plod, the rest of the suspension most definitely isn't, so probably a category of its' own :-\
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PRE FACELIFT ESTATE V6=FFCGARY1 FACELIFT ESTATE V6 ........................
PRE FACELIFT ELITE SALOON V6 ................. FACELIFT ELITE SALOON V6 = AMBA....
PRE FACELIFT ESTATE 2.0/2.2 .................... FACELIFT ESTATE 2.0/2.2...................
PRE FACELIFT SALOON 2.0/2.2 .................. FACELIFTE SALOON 2.0/2.2 .................
PRE FACELIFT SALOON MV6 ....................... FACELIFT SALOON MV6 .................
PRE FACELIFT ESTATE MV6 ........................ FACELIFT ESTATE MV6 .......................
PRE FACELIFT ESTATE V6 EX PLOD .............. FACELIFT ESTATE V6 EX PLOD = JOSH....
PRE FACELIFT SALOON V6 EX PLOD ............. FACELIFT SALOON V6 EX PLOD = JOSH....
PRE FACELIFT ESTATE 2.5 DIESEL ............... FACELIFT ESTATE 2.5 DIESEL ..............
PRE FACELIFT SALOON 2.5 DIESEL .............. FACELIFT SALOON 2.5 DIESEL .............
Any more i have missed ?
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Facelift saloon V6 Elite - NOT ex-plod but factory fitted full Irmscher kit ... :)
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Coverd that varient but we are trying to get 2 similer varients of same car to test, body kits will add little to how the car feels between pfl/f/l
got to admit it will look dam good though. :y
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Coverd that varient but we are trying to get 2 similer varients of same car to test, body kits will add little to how the car feels between pfl/f/l
got to admit it will look dam good though. :y
iirc, Entwoods car has had Irmscher suspension from new... :-\
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stock cars without the upgraded irmscher is what we are looking for really, so COULD rule out plod cars as they will have upgraded suspension componants.
We know these car will feel different to stock retail so not part of the exercise.
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stock cars without the upgraded irmscher is what we are looking for really, so COULD rule out plod cars as they will have upgraded suspension componants.
We know these car will feel different to stock retail so not part of the exercise.
Not unworthy of comparison though, given there are probably as many ex plod estates around as there are MV6 estates :-\
And if the aim of the exercise is to enhance the driveability of a preferred model, then variety might be beneficial. Although any tests, even if every option was driven by one independent person, would be purely subjective :-\
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Coverd that varient but we are trying to get 2 similer varients of same car to test, body kits will add little to how the car feels between pfl/f/l
got to admit it will look dam good though. :y
iirc, Entwoods car has had Irmscher suspension from new... :-\
Standard Elite suspension all round I'm afraid ... :( but now has various bits of poly incorporated ... :)
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Coverd that varient but we are trying to get 2 similer varients of same car to test, body kits will add little to how the car feels between pfl/f/l
got to admit it will look dam good though. :y
iirc, Entwoods car has had Irmscher suspension from new... :-\
Standard Elite suspension all round I'm afraid ... :(
Ah, ok :y
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exercise is not to enhance the drive al but see if we can determin why the the earlier models feel different to drive than the later cars. out of the tin so to speak. :y
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exercise is not to enhance the drive al but see if we can determin why the the earlier models feel different to drive than the later cars. out of the tin so to speak. :y
Fair dos, but some prefer the way the p/mfls drive and some prefer the fl. I suspect it boils down to individual perception, which to the best of my (limited) knowledge, cannot be bottled :-\
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No problems with that Al but opinions are that there is a difference, but the question is why should that be as they are the same car
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Josh has an umolested one of each FL saloon
WIth shocking bad ttyres ::)
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Hi Jamie you got your motor sorted yet, are you in for a days playing?
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Hi Jamie you got your motor sorted yet, are you in for a days playing?
Probably not this side of August now :'(
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I Am willing to put up my f/l 2.5td manual if anyone has a an earlier one to match.
From my side I went from a mfl to fl same engine slightly different spec and at first really really didn't like the f/l seats ,mirrors,dash,back end,front end, in fact most of it ,but now after a year or so maybe I am getting used to it and actually quite like the old girl!!
As an edit ,thinking about it I did put mv6 recaro seats in the mfl ,I guess that made a difference to comfort!!
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PRE FACELIFT ESTATE V6=FFCGARY1 FACELIFT ESTATE V6 ........................
PRE FACELIFT ELITE SALOON V6 ................. FACELIFT ELITE SALOON V6 = AMBA....
PRE FACELIFT ESTATE 2.0/2.2 .................... FACELIFT ESTATE 2.0/2.2...................
PRE FACELIFT SALOON 2.0/2.2 .................. FACELIFTE SALOON 2.0/2.2 .................
PRE FACELIFT SALOON MV6 ....................... FACELIFT SALOON MV6 .................
PRE FACELIFT ESTATE MV6 ........................ FACELIFT ESTATE MV6 .......................
PRE FACELIFT ESTATE V6 EX PLOD .............. FACELIFT ESTATE V6 EX PLOD = JOSH....
PRE FACELIFT SALOON V6 EX PLOD ............. FACELIFT SALOON V6 EX PLOD = JOSH....
PRE FACELIFT ESTATE 2.5 DIESEL ............... FACELIFT ESTATE 2.5 DIESEL ..............
PRE FACELIFT SALOON 2.5 DIESEL .............. FACELIFT SALOON 2.5 DIESEL = FRANKS DAD
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Sorry Gary ,that would be the estate, never had the luxury of a saloon!
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OK fd no problem will amend. :y
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PRE FACELIFT ESTATE V6=FFCGARY1 FACELIFT ESTATE V6 ........................
PRE FACELIFT ELITE SALOON V6 ................. FACELIFT ELITE SALOON V6 = AMBA....
PRE FACELIFT ESTATE 2.0/2.2 .................... FACELIFT ESTATE 2.0/2.2...................
PRE FACELIFT SALOON 2.0/2.2 .................. FACELIFTE SALOON 2.0/2.2 .................
PRE FACELIFT SALOON MV6 ....................... FACELIFT SALOON MV6 .................
PRE FACELIFT ESTATE MV6 ........................ FACELIFT ESTATE MV6 .......................
PRE FACELIFT ESTATE V6 EX PLOD .............. FACELIFT ESTATE V6 EX PLOD = JOSH....
PRE FACELIFT SALOON V6 EX PLOD ............. FACELIFT SALOON V6 EX PLOD = JOSH....
PRE FACELIFT ESTATE 2.5 DIESEL ............... FACELIFT ESTATE 2.5 DIESEL = FRANKS DAD
PRE FACELIFT SALOON 2.5 DIESEL ............... FACELIFT SALOON 2.5 DIESEL = ............
Amended. we need a few more here boys and girls.
After, we can all go and get curried up.
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I do have PFL retail MV6 and FL Elite, but both have been buggered around with.
I'm wondering if there are gains to this, as some will be tired, tyres will impact, etc etc. But any excuse for a meet-up gets my vote :y
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I guess at the age of the cars now we will not get out of the box findings but we will get hell of a good laugh trying to. as you say Jamie lets get together and try.
PS make mine a butter chicken with everything.
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I do have PFL retail MV6 and FL Elite, but both have been buggered around with.
I'm wondering if there are gains to this, as some will be tired, tyres will impact, etc etc. But any excuse for a meet-up gets my vote :y
???
Was that a special edition ???
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if it wasnt then it will be now. ::) :y
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Some plod were registered as MV6 Special... gls trim with MV6 suspension. Retail MV6 simply means one what came from the showroom as a normal public order/purchase :y
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Some plod were registered as MV6 Special... gls trim with MV6 suspension. Retail MV6 simply means one what came from the showroom as a normal public order/purchase :y
Runs off to check Logbook :-\
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I do have PFL retail MV6 and FL Elite, but both have been buggered around with.
I'm wondering if there are gains to this, as some will be tired, tyres will impact, etc etc. But any excuse for a meet-up gets my vote :y
???
Was that a special edition ???
Nope, normal retail MV6. As opposed to base spec ex-Plod MV6.