Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Terbs on 07 May 2014, 23:51:11

Title: To do or not to do ???
Post by: Terbs on 07 May 2014, 23:51:11
Hi all...
Both Omega's passed MOT's now, no probs....however I have a dilemma. The gold one is in good shape bodywise, but the Nocturno blue  estate has a bit of rust under the rear wiper and a small piece on each corner of the rear doors. The fella who does the coachwork for son in laws garage says he can do those repairs for £200. He also included the spoiler I wrote about in an earlier thread.
Cost wise, and labour wise etc, against longevity, would it be easier and best, to fit two rear doors and repaint the rest, or repair the rust and repaint. When you buy secondhand doors do they have all the gumage fitted, or do you just get a stripped door. Not sure what is involved in fitting another door/s
I have experience with spraying cars, but that was a long time ago, but I have access to equipment.
Hope this makes sense....I don't want to spend a fortune, as I am slowly winning the battle with swmbo to let me buy a third Omega, a saloon this time. But I want a decnt repair, via whichever route.
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: chrisgixer on 08 May 2014, 06:05:14
Can't think of anything Elite rear doors have that others don't provided they have lecy windows, so swapping doors for non rusty ones could work quite simply. It's just two door pins and an electrical plug, if they come with door cards. But finding good doors is is they key, and doing so for less than £50 each.
 I see your dilemma though as most Tail gates rust in the same place so it'll need repair in a paint shop anyway.

Thing is, they say once rust sets in it WILL return eventually anyway, from what I gather. I presume as the galvanising has gone in the first place, eaten by the rust. :(
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: MV6Matt on 08 May 2014, 07:42:17
In my experience it depends on the quality of the job if you repair and the condition of the replacement doors if you don't.

I have gone for replacement doors in the past as you can strip down to the metal and have a good look at the condition of the door while it's off the car.
If you do find anything then's the time to sort it out.
Again the respray can be done off the car and then swop once done

HTH

Matthew
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: cleggy on 08 May 2014, 08:20:06
I had rust around the wiper motor, and a small amount on the rear arches where the door open, I had those bits done plus minor bumper scratches and supermarket trolly scuffs for £120 about three years ago. The rust hasn't returned and the coachwork repair man is doing further work for me next month, minor bumper scratches ( must trim the hedge) and a rear wheel arch when the gatepost moved ::). The cost is about £100 depending what else he sees, good value and he does a superb job. :y :y

So depending on the amount of rust and the workmanship I would go for the respray/repair if it lasts as long as mine as done. :y

Great news on the MOT's :y :y :y 
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 09 May 2014, 00:02:33
I presume as the galvanising has gone in the first place, eaten by the rust. :(

Omega's were galvanized?!  :o  :D  ;D

Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: Vamps on 09 May 2014, 00:07:39
I presume as the galvanising has gone in the first place, eaten by the rust. :(

Omega's were galvanized?!  :o  :D  ;D

Really?....... ;) :D :D
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: dbug on 09 May 2014, 00:43:58
Can't think of anything Elite rear doors have that others don't provided they have lecy windows, so swapping doors for non rusty ones could work quite simply. It's just two door pins and an electrical plug, if they come with door cards. But finding good doors is is they key, and doing so for less than £50 each.
 I see your dilemma though as most Tail gates rust in the same place so it'll need repair in a paint shop anyway.

Thing is, they say once rust sets in it WILL return eventually anyway, from what I gather. I presume as the galvanising has gone in the first place, eaten by the rust. :(

Galvanised metal is designed not to rust. If you have a piece of galvanised metal that has rusted, it is most likely because the protective zinc coating that was applied during the galvanising process has worn off.  ;)
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: Rods2 on 09 May 2014, 20:44:44
I wish Omega's were galvanised, my 960 Volvo was and had no rust when I got rid of it at 8.5 years old. Any scratches, stone chips to the galvanised metal were fine with no rust, :y :y :y unlike Omega rust buckets. :(
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: bigegg on 09 May 2014, 23:52:40
I wish Omega's were galvanised, my 960 Volvo was and had no rust when I got rid of it at 8.5 years old. Any scratches, stone chips to the galvanised metal were fine with no rust, :y :y :y unlike Omega rust buckets. :(
lexus the same - its a shame the paints so soft that it will scratch with a fingernail (not quite, but seems like it  :(  )

in answer to the OP  - fix the ones you have.
why buy 2nd hand to go to expense of refurbing them anyway + fitting?
UNLESS your doors are so bad that it's uneconomical to repair?
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: Terbs on 10 May 2014, 15:11:35
'in answer to the OP  - fix the ones you have.
why buy 2nd hand to go to expense of refurbing them anyway + fitting?
UNLESS your doors are so bad that it's uneconomical to repair?'

Actually the doors are only just bubbling, (down in the bottom corner only) not showing on the inner face. My concern is that rust always seems to find its way back, even if you go well beyond the area. Had thought of leading in, but have not done that for years. What is the best product nowadays that neutralises rust (if thats not a silly statement)
I was thinking  of  taking out the rust, then setting in a piece of zinc and filling out. :y
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 10 May 2014, 17:55:27
rust is simply iron oxide   feo2  .. and nothing can neutralize it.. to prevent rust the mechanism is to cut the relation between fe and O2.. and that can be done by primers like epoxy :y  but you have to remove old rust first .. and apply primer in several applications to reach enough thickness..
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: Terbs on 10 May 2014, 21:29:41
I thought products (old days it was Kurust) that contained certain chemicals turned the rust black and into something else, magnesium something seems to ring a bell.
In my days of repair and spraying we did not do that, but cut out , fibre glassed, zinced or filled with lead.
Or a door skin. :y
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: Vamps on 10 May 2014, 22:15:15
I thought products (old days it was Kurust) that contained certain chemicals turned the rust black and into something else, magnesium something seems to ring a bell.
In my days of repair and spraying we did not do that, but cut out , fibre glassed, zinced or filled with lead.
Or a door skin. :y

Now there is a blast from the past......... :D :D
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: Bigron on 10 May 2014, 22:50:36
"terbert", you are correct in saying that rust treatment products converted iron oxide chemically, but not sure about magnesium. Most were based on phosphoric acid, which converted the iron oxide into iron phosphate - black, as you say - and rendered it inert.
Then wash and prime, which is where Kurust comes in, if it is still made? Was it lead-based?

Ron.
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: Terbs on 11 May 2014, 00:13:15
Not sure, Ron....

Magnesium was just a name that seemed right, but probably way off mark.

You won't believe this...I have just found a pot of Kurust in the garage...never looked to see what it was made from. :y
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: Terbs on 11 May 2014, 00:19:39
Here is another one for you.... I can't find any Upol D or P38 in the garage, but a have a few tins of the wood filler versions.
I know that sounds silly to use on a car, but it is used exactly as the Isopon products, sets like rock, smells the same, uses the same hardener, do you reckon that would do as filler.
Personally, I think P38, Upol D, Isopon, etc, etc are all the same, just marketed with different names for different trades. :)
Please correct me if I am wrong :y
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: Vamps on 11 May 2014, 00:31:24
I have used P38 on wood, and have a small job on plasterwork that I will be using it on as I just need to 'build up' a little around a light switch......... :y :y
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: Kevin Wood on 11 May 2014, 09:00:54
Here is another one for you.... I can't find any Upol D or P38 in the garage, but a have a few tins of the wood filler versions....

Not got any of that wood-effect fablon stuff stashed in the back o the garage, have you? Just thinking you could go the whole hog.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-Roadmaster-Estate-Wagon-Wagon-4-Door-/141278787679 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-Roadmaster-Estate-Wagon-Wagon-4-Door-/141278787679)  :D
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: omega3000 on 11 May 2014, 10:45:22
Here is another one for you.... I can't find any Upol D or P38 in the garage, but a have a few tins of the wood filler versions....

Not got any of that wood-effect fablon stuff stashed in the back o the garage, have you? Just thinking you could go the whole hog.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-Roadmaster-Estate-Wagon-Wagon-4-Door-/141278787679 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-Roadmaster-Estate-Wagon-Wagon-4-Door-/141278787679)  :D

Mmm woody  :-*
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: Terbs on 11 May 2014, 10:59:15
Here is another one for you.... I can't find any Upol D or P38 in the garage, but a have a few tins of the wood filler versions....

Not got any of that wood-effect fablon stuff stashed in the back o the garage, have you? Just thinking you could go the whole hog.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-Roadmaster-Estate-Wagon-Wagon-4-Door-/141278787679 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-Roadmaster-Estate-Wagon-Wagon-4-Door-/141278787679)  :D

 ;D ;D ;D I don't think so Kevin....I don't really want to drive around like a fallen tree trunk ;D
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 11 May 2014, 11:05:03
I thought products (old days it was Kurust) that contained certain chemicals turned the rust black and into something else, magnesium something seems to ring a bell.
In my days of repair and spraying we did not do that, but cut out , fibre glassed, zinced or filled with lead.
Or a door skin. :y




checking net..


thats phosphoric acid or phosphate based chemicals like zinc phosphate pr magnesium phosphate..  but if the area is large or too small it adds extra cost of buying chemicals.. imo best method remove it and insulate it..
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: omega3000 on 11 May 2014, 11:08:53
I would cut out the rust then prime the area with a decent rust proofer . Ive done this , then use a fibre glass repair kit with alloy wire mesh to bridge any large holes  :)
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: Terbs on 11 May 2014, 11:40:55
Thanks for the input fella's :y

Off to the pikey van in Dorset today for a fortnight. The Blue Omega can stand on the drive and rot for another couple of weeks. I'll use the gold one for this run.
Then it will be out with grinders , wet or dry, filler, fibre glass, zinc mesh etc.
Must remember to order the paint !!!!!. Probably use the son in law's compressor at Brackley, so cover up the silver bullet TB ;D Not far as the crow flies, a few hundred yards at the most!!!
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: dbug on 12 May 2014, 22:14:14

I thought products (old days it was Kurust) that contained certain chemicals turned the rust black and into something else, magnesium something seems to ring a bell.
In my days of repair and spraying we did not do that, but cut out , fibre glassed, zinced or filled with lead.
Or a door skin. :y

Kurust, and others, based on phosphoric acid - cheaper to use Coke (also contains phosphoric acid).  Mechanics (old style, back in the 60s) used to use Coke to free off rusty nuts and bolts ;)




Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: Terbs on 13 May 2014, 17:23:43
Struth...you learn something every day :y
Title: Re: To do or not to do ???
Post by: tigers_gonads on 13 May 2014, 17:49:33

I thought products (old days it was Kurust) that contained certain chemicals turned the rust black and into something else, magnesium something seems to ring a bell.
In my days of repair and spraying we did not do that, but cut out , fibre glassed, zinced or filled with lead.
Or a door skin. :y

Kurust, and others, based on phosphoric acid - cheaper to use Coke (also contains phosphoric acid).  Mechanics (old style, back in the 60s) used to use Coke to free off rusty nuts and bolts ;)


I still do use it to get rid of light rust on some parts.
In fact I had a pair of brake calipers in a bowl of cheapo lidl cola last year for a week.
Pulled them out when I got back off holiday and gave them a quick going over with a wire brush and they came up great.

Another tip for rusty nuts and bolts is ATF mixed with acetone  ;)