Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: vauxsull on 27 May 2014, 20:08:25
-
Would fitting one of these make any difference to sound, performance or mpg than replacing with standard paper filter?
-
Performance? No
Sound? Yes
:)
-
I see . Righty ho then.. New filter needed anyway so may go for one of these. :y
-
Depending what you get may lower your perfomance, damage your MAF etc.
Stick with genuine, free flowing and work very well.
-
Oh James James... My bubble is burst now..
-
Yep, not really worth getting a filter that needs to be oiled. If you're not careful the oil will damage the MAF. If you don't oil them every couple of K miles they don't filter effectively. They last a lifetime, but need very regular attention.
A paper filter is by far the best option. The Omegas is so huge it will never significantly impact performance.
-
If the K&N was THAT good... then Vx would have fitted it from new ??? or we would all have changed to one by now ... and I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole !!! :)
-
Ok then...paper it is... :)
-
I recently changed mine with one from Eurocarparts.
It says Crosland on the box and looks virtually identical to the original.
Cost about £6 delivered if memory serves. :y
-
Performance? No
Sound? Yes
:)
Depends wether its a replacement Panel Filter or the Dome type. ;)
-
I used a k and n filter on my mig for 4 years and cleaned it every year without having any probs with maf meter or anything else.....as for performance no difference what so ever but did make it sound a bit better.....However i now use the proper G.M.paper filter because i always had high readings with the gasses come m.o.t.time and found that if i put the paper type back in for some reason ....or other the readings came down so no point in changing from original.....
-
If you want a bit of induction noise/slightly freer airflow, remove the trumpets from inside the airbox...
It's free and doesn't bugger up the MAF sensor :y
-
... and dont drill holes in the airbox ::)
-
If you want a bit of induction noise/slightly freer airflow, remove the trumpets from inside the airbox...
It's free and doesn't bugger up the MAF sensor :y
What is this exactly? I've never come across it before. Might try this if it doesn't have any negative affects overall, Just adds a little noise.
-
If you want a bit of induction noise/slightly freer airflow, remove the trumpets from inside the airbox...
It's free and doesn't bugger up the MAF sensor :y
What is this exactly? I've never come across it before. Might try this if it doesn't have any negative affects overall, Just adds a little noise.
Should just unscrew from inside the airbox , did it on the vectra but had cold air feed .
-
If you want a bit of induction noise/slightly freer airflow, remove the trumpets from inside the airbox...
It's free and doesn't bugger up the MAF sensor :y
What is this exactly? I've never come across it before. Might try this if it doesn't have any negative affects overall, Just adds a little noise.
Should just unscrew from inside the airbox , did it on the vectra but had cold air feed .
Typed it in google, Found this on OOF's old site.. This the part ?
(http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p620/Agemo_Legend/82D2A236-863D-4C93-AFD8-63099CB7C708_zpshczbdldr.jpg) (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/Agemo_Legend/media/82D2A236-863D-4C93-AFD8-63099CB7C708_zpshczbdldr.jpg.html)
Can't say I've noticed it before tbh..
-
If you want a bit of induction noise/slightly freer airflow, remove the trumpets from inside the airbox...
It's free and doesn't bugger up the MAF sensor :y
What is this exactly? I've never come across it before. Might try this if it doesn't have any negative affects overall, Just adds a little noise.
Take the top off the airbox... will be blindingly obvious :y
-
If you want a bit of induction noise/slightly freer airflow, remove the trumpets from inside the airbox...
It's free and doesn't bugger up the MAF sensor :y
What is this exactly? I've never come across it before. Might try this if it doesn't have any negative affects overall, Just adds a little noise.
Take the top off the airbox... will be blindingly obvious :y
not if you never looked at condition of air filter ???
-
If you want a bit of induction noise/slightly freer airflow, remove the trumpets from inside the airbox...
It's free and doesn't bugger up the MAF sensor :y
What is this exactly? I've never come across it before. Might try this if it doesn't have any negative affects overall, Just adds a little noise.
Take the top off the airbox... will be blindingly obvious :y
not if you never looked at condition of air filter ???
Changed it month or two ago, Time flys can't remember ;D .. Or was that for Al ? symes :-\ ;D
-
If you want a bit of induction noise/slightly freer airflow, remove the trumpets from inside the airbox...
It's free and doesn't bugger up the MAF sensor :y
What is this exactly? I've never come across it before. Might try this if it doesn't have any negative affects overall, Just adds a little noise.
Take the top off the airbox... will be blindingly obvious :y
not if you never looked at condition of air filter ???
Changed it month or two ago, Time flys can't remember ;D .. Or was that for Al ? symes :-\ ;D
mine done 2-3 months ago-got to do plugs yet--cant be asked at mo-still runs fine(so far)
-
I've got a piper cross on mine no probs here what so ever. I had it on my old omega ran it for about a year on that one an no problems at all :y
I wouldn't say I've noticed a diffrence in sound. Hope this helps
-
For performance, a genuine GM is about the best due to surface area. Cones generally the worse
-
For performance, a genuine GM is about the best due to surface area. Cones generally the worse
But a nicer sound :y
-
For performance, a genuine GM is about the best due to surface area. Cones generally the worse
But a nicer sound :y
"Nicer" is always in the eyes (or ears) of the beholder, but if you're after that intake suck/whistle noise, cones are great... ...if you don't need power ;D
-
stock omega inlet is designed towards low rpm power and torque.. K N type filters will have advantage in high rpm range but with one condition.. inlet pipes must follow a short path with a design allowing faster air speed.. connecting a k n filter to the stock pipes wont bring some considerable power gain but instead you may have problem with maf.. I think those type of filters are more suitable to engines with map sensor instead of maf..
-
K&N panel filter's are available :)
-
When I was a lad...... ::) ::) To increase induction noise we simply removed the air filter totally, put a but of wire gauze across to stop stones.................. :D :D
-
K&N panel filter's are available :)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/K-N-AIR-FILTER-FOR-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-2-2-1999-2003-33-2734-/390824166695?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5afeef8527
So they are, at at least three times the price of a genuine one :o I very much doubt that they're three times better though ::)
-
I've always used K&N in all my cars, mainly panel filters.
You can clean them as regularly as you like, flow more air, and give a nicer induction roar.
Make your own mind up and check on google to ask a general question about adding a K&N, most forums explain the advantages, also read up on K&N's own website.
There's a lot of purists on this forum, I guess it might be the type of car attracts a certain audience could one say, depends on your previous experiences in life also, I've built engines in my time, done all my own mechanics and never paid for any garage services in my life. You learn a lot doing everything yourself.
I have K&N panels in all my cars, including a group a cone on my Cosworth.
OOF is not the be all and end all, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but is not necessarily the best way, find your own way an filter out the proverbial and form your own opinion.
K&N all the way over stock.
-
Here is a reality check......the K and N does not flow more air than the stock, thats a fact (and physics) and verified some years ago with back to back comparison on a rolling road. The K and N (and Piper etc) worked great on the old cars with small pancake filters or small panel type filters but the modern units with large surface area, long service interval filters, are a VERY different story.
They still have a place, for those wanting a bit more induction roar, kit cars, engine transplants and stuff that is highly modified and far from stock but, for the standard engine setup....a waste of money (unless you want more noise lol).
As for the trumpet removal, that can reduce airflow (again physics) beleave it or not.
-
Well it is amazing what we can find out on here just by reading the facts about different things....very interesting and informative.. :y :y
-
"For the standard engine setup"
That's it I guess. As part of an overall modification and performance enhancement package they have their place, but on their own probably add little effect to a car like the Omega. That said, a K&N panel filter made a notable difference on my C25XE-equipped Cavalier, and that's essentially the same lump as found on the large barge (albeit with a different air intake system etc). I won't mention the effect on my Cavalier Turbos, hehe ;)
It is true that some 'purists' are very quick to dismiss any form of Omega fettling without actually playing about/finding out for themselves. At the end of the day, what's the worst that can happen? "Oh, it didn't work". And? Nothing wrong with trying these things. I see a lot of criticism when members pipe up about trying something new, and it's usually from those who have entirely standard cars (maybe modification extends to the application of a towbar ;)) and are simply quoting other's posts under the assumption that they are regurgitating the gospel truth. While there's merit in drawing on the experience of others, it's also important to remember that there's nowt wrong with experimenting and playing about. It's only nuts and bolts at the end of the day.
-
Re the trumpets, prior to removal, there is evidence of the airflow through the filter being concentrated in a 3" area. Ever wondered why it's only dirty in one spot?
Remove the trumpets and this no longer happens, which would suggest that air is passing through the whole filter. Whether this is better or not I couldn't say. Might make the airflow more turbulent after the filter :-\
-
Re the trumpets, prior to removal, there is evidence of the airflow through the filter being concentrated in a 3" area. Ever wondered why it's only dirty in one spot?
Remove the trumpets and this no longer happens, which would suggest that air is passing through the whole filter. Whether this is better or not I couldn't say. Might make the airflow more turbulent after the filter :-\
What you have to consider is that air has mass and consequently does not like to go around sharp corners. In fact, a sharp edge has the effect of creating turbulance which results in an effective narrowing (for air flow) of the apeture.
Hence why a trumpet is fitted with a radiused turn and slight narrwoing to speed the airflow slightly and then slowly encourage the air to 'spread' without creating the turbulance, the harsh edge is then out of the main airflow.
The same is true of the air passing through the filter, it will always try to pass through the centre due to the position of the outlet .....passing through the outer edge requires the air to travel further....which it will as the filter bungs up (but will generaly bung from the centre out).
Any way, thats probably getting a bit complex and needs very advanced computer sims to model effectively (and even then they tend to be best guess) but hopefuly gives an insight into what you have to consider when thinking air flow.
Plus of course, its the exhaust manifolds on the omega V6 that are the big compromise as we know. ;D ;D :y
-
Do I need to save up for some nice stainless tubular manifolds then :-\
Like theses...
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Opel-Omega-B-2-5-3-0L-V6-Rennsport-Edelstahl-Manifolds-Limosine-Kombi-Neu-/231226496762?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item35d62c56fa 8)
-
I'm not sure if this "purist" accusation is entirely fair, TBH. :-\
Yes, many of us would advise against modifications such as this, but it's not because we are purists. I think it's fair to say that whilst the majority of the more experienced members here drive pretty standard Omegas, most of us have a fair track record of messing about tuning other cars in one form or another and have a good feel for what works and what doesn't as a modification.
Furthermore, if we look at a modification that actually works - example: fitting poly front wishbone bushes - you'll find most of us have done it.
We also have developed a very good understanding of how every aspect of the Omega works and those of us who help out members with code reading and maintenance on a regular basis have experienced and driven a wide variety of Omegas, both modified and standard, in good and poor condition.
I'm sure I speak for most here when I say that, if we recommend not bothering to change your air filter for a fancy one, it's because we know it will be a waste of money!
If you insist on tying it, though, a cheaper method is to make sure there's no junk in your airbox and intake ducting, wait for a damp day when there's little airborne dust and take a quick blast around the block with no air filter fitted. If you can tell the difference in performance terms, then maybe I'm talking out of my @rse! At least you won't have wasted any money. ;)
-
Do I need to save up for some nice stainless tubular manifolds then :-\
Like theses...
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Opel-Omega-B-2-5-3-0L-V6-Rennsport-Edelstahl-Manifolds-Limosine-Kombi-Neu-/231226496762?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item35d62c56fa 8)
They look rather nice, will they fit the RHD cars?
The main issue with the manifolds is that all cylinders (all be it to a much lesser extent on No's 1 and 2) have a 'stub' which creates interesting effects in the gas flow at certain RPM.
That and the 2.5/3.0 ones being quite restrictive (as we know the 2.6/3.2 ones are better and a good little mod but not the ultimate solution).
-
I'm not sure if this "purist" accusation is entirely fair, TBH. :-\
Yes, many of us would advise against modifications such as this, but it's not because we are purists. I think it's fair to say that whilst the majority of the more experienced members here drive pretty standard Omegas, most of us have a fair track record of messing about tuning other cars in one form or another and have a good feel for what works and what doesn't as a modification.
Furthermore, if we look at a modification that actually works - example: fitting poly front wishbone bushes - you'll find most of us have done it.
We also have developed a very good understanding of how every aspect of the Omega works and those of us who help out members with code reading and maintenance on a regular basis have experienced and driven a wide variety of Omegas, both modified and standard, in good and poor condition.
I'm sure I speak for most here when I say that, if we recommend not bothering to change your air filter for a fancy one, it's because we know it will be a waste of money!
If you insist on tying it, though, a cheaper method is to make sure there's no junk in your airbox and intake ducting, wait for a damp day when there's little airborne dust and take a quick blast around the block with no air filter fitted. If you can tell the difference in performance terms, then maybe I'm talking out of my @rse! At least you won't have wasted any money. ;)
If your reply was in response to my comment, then please do not think I was singling out anyone in particular. I was merely pointing out the 'nah, no point' attitude of a lot of car owners (evident in other clubs too) who DON'T have the knowledge or experience to advise effectively. I mean, rather than say 'no, X Y and Z will never make a difference, waste of time' etc, it is more constructive to say 'X Y and Z will only work if you apply changes A B and C'. I guess I was referring to the trigger happy few that are keen to shoot an enquiry down in flames rather than respond constructively.
-
Do I need to save up for some nice stainless tubular manifolds then :-\
Like theses...
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Opel-Omega-B-2-5-3-0L-V6-Rennsport-Edelstahl-Manifolds-Limosine-Kombi-Neu-/231226496762?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item35d62c56fa 8)
They look rather nice, will they fit the RHD cars?
The main issue with the manifolds is that all cylinders (all be it to a much lesser extent on No's 1 and 2) have a 'stub' which creates interesting effects in the gas flow at certain RPM.
That and the 2.5/3.0 ones being quite restrictive (as we know the 2.6/3.2 ones are better and a good little mod but not the ultimate solution).
Don't see why they won't fit, given the steering idler and pitman arm are an exact mirror and there's no steering column in the way :-\ Any mention of different manifolds/down pipes on LHD cars in TIS?
-
I recall some issues as the LHD pipe work is designed based on a steering box being mounted on the 'wrong' side and hence the 1-3-5 pipe work can foul the steering box on RHD cars (as its been desigend assuming its not there).
Of course, might not be a problem with these.
-
K&N panel filter's are available :)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/K-N-AIR-FILTER-FOR-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-2-2-1999-2003-33-2734-/390824166695?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5afeef8527
So they are, at at least three times the price of a genuine one :o I very much doubt that they're three times better though ::)
Yeah they always been a bit expensive but will pay for itself over time :y
-
I'm not sure if this "purist" accusation is entirely fair, TBH. :-\
Yes, many of us would advise against modifications such as this, but it's not because we are purists. I think it's fair to say that whilst the majority of the more experienced members here drive pretty standard Omegas, most of us have a fair track record of messing about tuning other cars in one form or another and have a good feel for what works and what doesn't as a modification.
Furthermore, if we look at a modification that actually works - example: fitting poly front wishbone bushes - you'll find most of us have done it.
We also have developed a very good understanding of how every aspect of the Omega works and those of us who help out members with code reading and maintenance on a regular basis have experienced and driven a wide variety of Omegas, both modified and standard, in good and poor condition.
I'm sure I speak for most here when I say that, if we recommend not bothering to change your air filter for a fancy one, it's because we know it will be a waste of money!
If you insist on tying it, though, a cheaper method is to make sure there's no junk in your airbox and intake ducting, wait for a damp day when there's little airborne dust and take a quick blast around the block with no air filter fitted. If you can tell the difference in performance terms, then maybe I'm talking out of my @rse! At least you won't have wasted any money. ;)
If your reply was in response to my comment, then please do not think I was singling out anyone in particular. I was merely pointing out the 'nah, no point' attitude of a lot of car owners (evident in other clubs too) who DON'T have the knowledge or experience to advise effectively. I mean, rather than say 'no, X Y and Z will never make a difference, waste of time' etc, it is more constructive to say 'X Y and Z will only work if you apply changes A B and C'. I guess I was referring to the trigger happy few that are keen to shoot an enquiry down in flames rather than respond constructively.
No offence taken, I was just pointing out that that tends not to be the case here. :y
-
I recall some issues as the LHD pipe work is designed based on a steering box being mounted on the 'wrong' side and hence the 1-3-5 pipe work can foul the steering box on RHD cars (as its been desigend assuming its not there).
Of course, might not be a problem with these.
iirc that's why Mercedes never released a RHD v8 diesel in the W220... not helped by the change from the W140 steering box to a rack ::)
Don't forget that the 246 head sits further back than the 135 one, so if anything, that would make it more of a challenge on a left hooker :-\
Incidentally, the reverse is why fitting an LS lump in a RHD Omega is a bit of a headache :y
-
between all these discussions for one thing I'm sure, ecotecs were not designed for high performance, the designers were after an acceptable power with minimal/acceptable fuel consumption.. if you want performance in na form solution partially easy.. open some air wents on the hood for both inlet sides.. use short inlet trumpets with independant throttles, discard the maf and ecu use map and a standalone.. then you will have much more power with a rocketing fuel bill ;D
-
Would fitting one of these make any difference to sound, performance or mpg than replacing with standard paper filter?
Chav :P ;D ;D
-
Just saw this.. Thought of this thread.
They do sound rather nice.. Can't find any panel k&n filter videos.
http://youtu.be/s4JNg6sUqRU
-
Just saw this.. Thought of this thread.
They do sound rather nice.. Can't find any panel k&n filter videos.
http://youtu.be/s4JNg6sUqRU
[/highlight]
:o :o That engine rattles more than my 2.2 Honda diesel.............. ::) ::)
-
Open out the consatena paper element of the oe filter, and you'll see the filter area is vastly increased over a KN panel.
But ignore the filter for a minute, and ask where the restriction on the omega air flow is.
It's the exhaust manifold. The rest of the inlet and exhaust is massively over engineered for air fliw. Look at the single and double exit exhaust back boxes on the v engines. No affect on performance between the two at all, with similar sized double entry throttle body.
The filter will make big all difference to air flow and hence power, with the added oil v maf issues.
Further, do a search on oof on the subject. You'll see this a long standing misconception on the omega that long standing members are sick of opposing.
Along with miss diagnosed failed head gaskets, tracking fixing camber issues, front wheel bearings being separate to the hub, auto boxes being sealed for life etc etc. these and theories on panel filters improving performance on the omega are wrong.
4 pages on the oldest subject in oof history. ::)
-
Do I need to save up for some nice stainless tubular manifolds then :-\
Like theses...
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Opel-Omega-B-2-5-3-0L-V6-Rennsport-Edelstahl-Manifolds-Limosine-Kombi-Neu-/231226496762?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item35d62c56fa 8)
They look rather nice, will they fit the RHD cars?
The main issue with the manifolds is that all cylinders (all be it to a much lesser extent on No's 1 and 2) have a 'stub' which creates interesting effects in the gas flow at certain RPM.
That and the 2.5/3.0 ones being quite restrictive (as we know the 2.6/3.2 ones are better and a good little mod but not the ultimate solution).
Don't see why they won't fit, given the steering idler and pitman arm are an exact mirror and there's no steering column in the way :-\ Any mention of different manifolds/down pipes on LHD cars in TIS?
An old post talked about tubular manifolds having of some sort with steering lock. As Mark mentioned. Seem to remember something about the design being based on a manual box, which is good for the more Edwardian drivers and long throw signal box handles, but not so good the refined and relatively precise but much wider auto.
In short, buggered if I can remember but there was an issue with steering lock. Thread will Be on the old site I expect.
-
It is a pointer though, to the can if worms that modifying can potentially open up. Purely based on the starting point of a replacement filter in the pursuit of better performance.
If panel filters where an improvement I'd have one fitted tomorrow. Same as the other mods I've fine to mine re handling ind infotainment. We all strive to improve by finding weaknesses and fixing them. Fact is panel filters give no extra power and introduce a question on reliability if the maf. Hence I have an oe filter on my car.
-
honestly I would invest my money for bigger volume , seperate inlet manifold(s) if there were some distance .. never bothered to measure tough ;D
-
without doubt and any hesitation I can say omega plenum is small for that engine volume at high rpms..
-
without doubt and any hesitation I can say omega plenum is small for that engine volume at high rpms..
Hence the multi rams ::)
-
without doubt and any hesitation I can say omega plenum is small for that engine volume at high rpms..
Hence the multi rams ::)
yep.. at low and midrange they will do the job.. but I very much doubt at high rpm range they are sufficient.. I bet there are minimum 20 or more hp to be gained.. but as its a v6 a custom new manifold test will cost some considerable money.. :-\
-
without doubt and any hesitation I can say omega plenum is small for that engine volume at high rpms..
Hence the multi rams ::)
yep.. at low and midrange they will do the job.. but I very much doubt at high rpm range they are sufficient.. I bet there are minimum 20 or more hp to be gained.. but as its a v6 a custom new manifold test will cost some considerable money.. :-\
Those sort of gains are not available without forced induction without a serious amount of other work. More gains to be had on the exhaust side, but that's not as trendy
-
Indeed, and in a big heavy car like the Omega, the priority would be building torque low in the rev range rather than getting the last femtoBHP out of it at sky high revs. ;)
-
without doubt and any hesitation I can say omega plenum is small for that engine volume at high rpms..
Hence the multi rams ::)
yep.. at low and midrange they will do the job.. but I very much doubt at high rpm range they are sufficient.. I bet there are minimum 20 or more hp to be gained.. but as its a v6 a custom new manifold test will cost some considerable money.. :-\
Those sort of gains are not available without forced induction without a serious amount of other work. More gains to be had on the exhaust side, but that's not as trendy
on 1.6 litre 4 pot I got 17 hp and 12 nm (measured at the same dyno) with a proper manifold.. Omega can get more ..
-
without doubt and any hesitation I can say omega plenum is small for that engine volume at high rpms..
Hence the multi rams ::)
yep.. at low and midrange they will do the job.. but I very much doubt at high rpm range they are sufficient.. I bet there are minimum 20 or more hp to be gained.. but as its a v6 a custom new manifold test will cost some considerable money.. :-\
Those sort of gains are not available without forced induction without a serious amount of other work. More gains to be had on the exhaust side, but that's not as trendy
on 1.6 litre 4 pot I got 17 hp and 12 nm (measured at the same dyno) with a proper manifold.. Omega can get more ..
now I put my nose under the hood, very little space (few cms gain in height, but more space in width) .. >:( and all those cabling, sockets, egr, coolant tank, fuel lines , sockets, air filter, maf must be relocated/rerouted.. and if I decide to get in this trouble , I must change exhaust manifolds, injectors .. and a custom ecu.. hence installing turbo is easier ;D will see later .. first I must finish the clit project