Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 19 November 2006, 17:29:31
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I've got a rad that simply does not want to reach the same temperature as all the others. I went through all last winter with this problem but have now decided to do something about it. I've tried bleeding buckets of water out of it, but still no luck...it just stays lukewarm.
Someone said it may need "balancing" :o. I suspect that is something to do with the inflow and outflow, but can anyone explain it and, more to the point, can I do it myself without specialist tools?
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First step, what speed is the pump set at, if not at full speed then turn it up a notch.
Are the lock shield valves on the rad fully open?
You coudl try turning the lock shilds valve off a half turn in the hottest rooms to up the flow in the cold rad....
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combi system or do you have a header tank?
If you have the header tank system it could be an air lock. I have a rad that will tend to do this & my 'cure' is to turn off all the other rads including the cistern and the water has no alternative other than to go through the affected rad. It'll do some coughing & gurgling untill there's a proper water flow.
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Dont spose the rads have thermostats on them do they?
Could be sticking thermostat if so.......i sometimes get that on my rads.
Cure is to pop off the top of the stat, where you will find a plunger, then gently with pliers pull and push the plunger until its free. Plunger should go to upper most point on its own when free.
If you dont have thermostats on each rad.......ignore the above ;D
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Dont spose the rads have thermostats on them do they?
Could be sticking thermostat if so.......i sometimes get that on my rads.
Cure is to pop off the top of the stat, where you will find a plunger, then gently with pliers pull and push the plunger until its free. Plunger should go to upper most point on its own when free.
If you dont have thermostats on each rad.......ignore the above ;D
Thermostats on every rad? Bloody hell, there's some wealthy people on here.
Oh! Just realised, your a taxi driver...... ;D
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Dont spose the rads have thermostats on them do they?
Could be sticking thermostat if so.......i sometimes get that on my rads.
Cure is to pop off the top of the stat, where you will find a plunger, then gently with pliers pull and push the plunger until its free. Plunger should go to upper most point on its own when free.
If you dont have thermostats on each rad.......ignore the above ;D
Thermostats on every rad? Bloody hell, there's some wealthy people on here.
Oh! Just realised, your a taxi driver...... ;D
;D Didnt have them put in AA, already on each rad when i bought the house.....and anyway bet you got a room stat.....i havent :(
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Dont spose the rads have thermostats on them do they?
Could be sticking thermostat if so.......i sometimes get that on my rads.
Cure is to pop off the top of the stat, where you will find a plunger, then gently with pliers pull and push the plunger until its free. Plunger should go to upper most point on its own when free.
If you dont have thermostats on each rad.......ignore the above ;D
Thermostats on every rad? Bloody hell, there's some wealthy people on here.
Oh! Just realised, your a taxi driver...... ;D
New building regs say rad stats on every rad (except if in same room as thermostat)
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Dont spose the rads have thermostats on them do they?
Could be sticking thermostat if so.......i sometimes get that on my rads.
Cure is to pop off the top of the stat, where you will find a plunger, then gently with pliers pull and push the plunger until its free. Plunger should go to upper most point on its own when free.
If you dont have thermostats on each rad.......ignore the above ;D
Thermostats on every rad? Bloody hell, there's some wealthy people on here.
Oh! Just realised, your a taxi driver...... ;D
New building regs say rad stats on every rad (except if in same room as thermostat)
Ahhh that explains it then.....on my previous house....i had a new central heating system put in.....including new rads, new pipework, new boiler, the lot.
The plumber put thermostats on all the rads, except the one in the hallway, where he put a room stat in....i just assumed he'd run outa rad stats ;D Worked out well tho.....you could have the coal effect gas fire on in the living room.....if it got too hot in there the room rad would shut off.....but the rest of the house stayed warm :y
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PM Boilerman he is in the trade
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First step, what speed is the pump set at, if not at full speed then turn it up a notch.
Are the lock shield valves on the rad fully open?
You coudl try turning the lock shilds valve off a half turn in the hottest rooms to up the flow in the cold rad....
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First step, what speed is the pump set at, if not at full speed then turn it up a notch.
Are the lock shield valves on the rad fully open?
You coudl try turning the lock shilds valve off a half turn in the hottest rooms to up the flow in the cold rad....
Sorry about the previous empty post.
Not sure what the pump speed is. I have a Vokera Maxin 28 which is a combi with a micro-bore rad system.
I'll dig out the tech paper and see if the pump speed can be ratched up a bit. All the lock shields are open fully, so I'll try truning them down in the hottest rooms. The suspect rad is furthest from the boiler.
In answer to TD, yes I have thermostats on each radiator. I've tried using pliers on the plunger on the suspect rad, but didn't get very far.
Thanks to all the others that have given suggestions. :y
Great forum this. Whatever your problem, there's someone out there who can help. No sex therapists I suppose? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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No sex therapists I suppose? ;D ;D ;D ;D
Pm AA im sure he'll be able to help ;D
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Hi Guys
Only just seen the call for help. A few of the above suggestions may work. But to pin it down I could do with a bit more info on the system.
1. As someone asked above is it a combi system or does it have a feed and expansion tank in the loft?
2. Has this rad always been poor? or has it only stopped working over the last year or two? or is it one of those that a DIYer has tagged on at the end of the system?
Don't turn the pump up unless you know the system well. You could end up dragging in air if its an open vented system.
Any advice I can give will be a pleasure, about time some one has asked a question that I might know the anwser to ;D
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Sorry I'm a bit slow on the typing, seen a few answers to the questions by the time I posted the last one. If you know what I mean
you guys are quick.
Has it always done this?
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Sorry I'm a bit slow on the typing, seen a few answers to the questions by the time I posted the last one. If you know what I mean
you guys are quick.
Has it always done this?
TBH, I can't be sure. I've had the system for about 7 or 8 years and I know it's been like this for the last two. We have a gas fire in the lounge (where the suspect rad is located) and whenever we've had a cold night - on goes the fire. It was only last year when I was cold and feeling too tight to switch on the fire ( ;D) that I checked the rad and found it was not as hot as the rest. I played around with it, but gave up and used the fire for heating for the rest of the winter.
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...oh, and it was professionally fitted system. No DIY involved.
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Sound very likley that the thermostatic rad valve has stuck our gone faulty on that rad. They can stick over the summer when they are closed a lot because its warm or could be in your case that because the fire is on so much it has been closed almost all the time. The rubber seat sticks to th inlet orifice.
A quick test to be sure it isnt an air lock. Close all your other radiators by turning the thermostatic valve down to minimum. Leave the faulty one fully open or take the head sensor off. Run the system Leave it about 10 mins or so and if your faulty rad gets hot it could be an air lock or balancing required.
If it doesnt get hot with all the others off then it is more than likley the thermostatic valve is stuck or faulty. Remove the head sensor of the vave body. Then try tapping the side of the valve body with a medium size spanner or adjustables to try and free the rubber seating inside the valve, you could even try tapping the pin on the top, but be very carefull, if you hit it to hard you can drive the pin straight though and you have a leak.
If this doesnt work, I think you need to replace the valve complete. Let me know how you go on or PM me. :y
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Oh ... and make sure your system is topped up to about 1 Bar or no1
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Sound very likley that the thermostatic rad valve has stuck our gone faulty on that rad. They can stick over the summer when they are closed a lot because its warm or could be in your case that because the fire is on so much it has been closed almost all the time. The rubber seat sticks to th inlet orifice.
A quick test to be sure it isnt an air lock. Close all your other radiators by turning the thermostatic valve down to minimum. Leave the faulty one fully open or take the head sensor off. Run the system Leave it about 10 mins or so and if your faulty rad gets hot it could be an air lock or balancing required.
If it doesnt get hot with all the others off then it is more than likley the thermostatic valve is stuck or faulty. Remove the head sensor of the vave body. Then try tapping the side of the valve body with a medium size spanner or adjustables to try and free the rubber seating inside the valve, you could even try tapping the pin on the top, but be very carefull, if you hit it to hard you can drive the pin straight though and you have a leak.
If this doesnt work, I think you need to replace the valve complete. Let me know how you go on or PM me. :y
Thanks BM, I'll give that a go :y
By the way, you mentioned balancing. How do you balance a radiator?
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I'd say try bleeding the rad, and change the valve.
What I'd do however, is nothing... cos I'm too lazy :P
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By the way, you mentioned balancing. How do you balance a radiator?
It's the system you're balancing, not the individual rad. The water flow will take the path of least resistance, so if the water can go through an open valve up stairs for example it'll not bother with a rad down stairs if can avoid it. If you close off the rads up stairs a little you're increasing the available flow for the other rads.
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Try the quick test I suggested first, in effect you would be doing an extreem balance by forcing the circulation to go only to the faulty rad, when you shut the others down and by the way make sure the other valve, at the opposite end to the thermostatic (the lock shield valve ) on the poor rad is fully open.
If you do the test - shutting all the others down with the bad one fully open and that rad doesnt get hot. Balancing wont make the slightest differance.
:y
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Try the quick test I suggested first, in effect you would be doing an extreem balance by forcing the circulation to go only to the faulty rad, when you shut the others down and by the way make sure the other valve, at the opposite end to the thermostatic (the lock shield valve ) on the poor rad is fully open.
If you do the test - shutting all the others down with the bad one fully open and that rad doesnt get hot. Balancing wont make the slightest differance.
:y
Tried the quick test and the rad failed to get hot, so I'll now try loosening the seal in the thermostatic valve with a few gentle knocks of a spanner (got my 2-year old here to help me! :y)
I'll report back soon.
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Well, the pin in the thermostat slides in and out fine, although that does not mean the seal in the valve is moving. On the other side of the rad, the lock shield valve is fully open and the body of the valve is too hot to hold for any length of time. Rad still not very warm. Tried re-bleeing it, but to no avail.
Think it's time for a new thermostat valve.
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Had all the other rads cooled down a bit, when you tested. This just proves that there is no circulation through them even thou they are turned off?
Yep, your right the pin sliding in and out doesnt mean the seat is free, you could try draining system, taking it off and having a look inside, but by the time you have done that you may as well replace it.
Try and get the same make as the old one, you have more chance of it matching up with the old valves unions, makes things a bit easier. Plus make sure your new one is Bi-directional. Most are these days but check. The old ones could only be fitted to the flow pipe, by the sounds of it your thermostatic is on the return, so it should be bi-directional or two way. :y
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Quick question and i expect boilerman will know.....
Does the pin move easily in and out?.....just when the pins on my stats get i can free them up.....but they are normally quite stiff to push in.....i assume i am pushing against the water....then when i release them the pins pop out slowly on their own....again assuming the water pressure is doing this .
Does this happen on yours Nick?
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Quick question and i expect boilerman will know.....
Does the pin move easily in and out?.....just when the pins on my stats get i can free them up.....but they are normally quite stiff to push in.....i assume i am pushing against the water....then when i release them the pins pop out slowly on their own....again assuming the water pressure is doing this .
Does this happen on yours Nick?
Well, TD, I only got the pin to move in and out using a pair of long-nosed pliers. But, I think that as you rightly say, the water pressure pushes the pin out (maximum setting on the thermostat) and the action of turning the stat down pushes the pin in and reduces the flow .
Two further questions for BM:
1) How much am I looking at for a new stat?
and
2) How often should I add Fernox to the system? (Been doing a bit of bleeding and topping up lately. Last done a couple of years back)
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Had all the other rads cooled down a bit, when you tested. This just proves that there is no circulation through them even thou they are turned off?
Yep, your right the pin sliding in and out doesnt mean the seat is free, you could try draining system, taking it off and having a look inside, but by the time you have done that you may as well replace it.
Try and get the same make as the old one, you have more chance of it matching up with the old valves unions, makes things a bit easier. Plus make sure your new one is Bi-directional. Most are these days but check. The old ones could only be fitted to the flow pipe, by the sounds of it your thermostatic is on the return, so it should be bi-directional or two way. :y
Thanks Boiler Man. Your a star. :y I'll get a Bi-directional one.
I posted a reply to Taxi Driver and a supplementary question for you (well, two actually ;) before I posted this Thank You note. Sorry about confusing you!
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Hi sorry for the delays in answering, as you can imagine it's my busy time of year, so away from the comp' quite a bit.
Your looking at between 12 and 20 quid, depends on the quality. Dont go for the cheapest as usual it's not always the best policy. As I mentioned do your best to ID the same make.
and use a smear of jointing compound like hawk white or simaler only on the olives (not as some people do on the thread) the threads are just there to tighten the olive on to the valve face.
Good luck :y
By all means PM me if you have a problem. or pm me for my phone number I'm a bit far away for a call out. ;D
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Cheers, BM :y