Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: minifreek on 17 August 2014, 16:06:06
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Hey folks, been on my jollies towing our caravan and noticed that the Omega is bottoming out on bumpy roads, Iv done some investigating and it seemed that the stabiliser attachment (anti snake bar) we use seems to be catching on roads, but also the towbar itself is catching... Iv moved the snake bar attachment up with a steel bracket bought for making the towball higher... but it seems now its just the towbar itself catching, the part that runs underneath the fuel tank...
Iv read that spring assisters may be needed to help the springs cope with the extra weight...
Iv even tried to load the caravan with more weight at the rear/middle and losing nose weight to help...
Any suggestions about the spring assisters please or anyway I could stop the towbar from catching...
BTW it ONLY happens on very bumpy roads and not all the time... but makes a horrendous noise when it does and makes me and the missus cringe LOL
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Does your self leveling still work? Guessing not...
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We had spring assistors fitted on our old estate but that didn't have self levelling, certainly helped keep the car riding better with less bounce when towing.
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No I removed that when I installed the MV6 suspension... I am however thinking of replaceing it, but I didn't like the wallowy rear I had with that fitted....
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We had spring assistors fitted on our old estate but that didn't have self levelling, certainly helped keep the car riding better with less bounce when towing.
Yep it is quite a bouncy ride TBH
If they help then I'll fit them, Iv ordered a pair anyway :)
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No I removed that when I installed the MV6 suspension... I am however thinking of replaceing it, but I didn't like the wallowy rear I had with that fitted....
That answers your question ::) not only have you removed the cars ability to deal with load, you have also lowered it 15mm.
I would suggest refitting self leveling along with plod rear springs (they're heavy duty, but same length as standard, ie not MV6) :y
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Aaah you see I didnt fit the MV6 rear springs as I read on here (or the old site) that all the springs where the same length throughout the Omega range, just the front springs are shorter....
I still have the rear air shockers, and they work but the pump has gone noisy so was on the lookout for a new pump when I came across the MV6 suspension for sale....
I'll fit the spring assisters when they get here, if they don't improve the ride/bounce then I'll refit the self levelling suspension to see if that works....
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Ok, but that makes the problem even worse, as the self leveling springs are very soft on their own...
You might find fitting the MV6 rear springs helps as they will be considerably stiffer than Elite ones. They will make the back end sit lower, but might support it better than the current set up :-\
Personally, I would refit the self leveling though :y
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OK, I'll dig out the original suspension and see what happens...
Thanks for the advice :)
Need to find a quiet air pump now LOL
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What nose weight are you using for towing? (how much does the towbar ball hit weigh)
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Not a clue TBH, but Iv got it in me head that its 75Kg....? which to me seems a lot...
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Well from memory the max weight was 75Kg and the caravan we had needed a minimum of 75Kg nose weight. We bought one of those weighing scales for the job. Never had a problem towing it thousands of miles around Europe.
We did have the same trouble you describe though with towbar bottoming out on those awful speed humps for example. Ours was a Witter towbar and that goes under the fuel tank.
We used spring assisters later (post caravan) for towing 1000Kg loads and they worked well.
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Yep ours is also a Witter towbar...
I'll try the spring assisters first, we're away again next week for a couple days, so they will get a good tryout - if they don't help then I'll re-install the self leveling suspension...
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the mv6 springs wont stop it bottoming out, our mv6 is on its arse with the 5 berth van on the back and also bottoms out on bumpy roads, also got a witter towbar fitted.
funny enough we just bought from spring assisters last week to try, just not got round to fitting them.
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............
I've even tried to load the caravan with more weight at the rear/middle and losing nose weight to help...
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Trust me, you never ever ever ever want to load a caravan too far rearward. Heaven forbid if it does let go, you would have one hell of a snake on your hands. :o
Nose weight limit of the Omega is about 75kg, I struggled to get most of our caravans down to that so settled for around 85kg. Never a problem with my self levelling though and the outfit rode level. :y The new light weight gas bottles do help with nose weight a bit. Easy to find the nose weight of the caravan using bathroom scales and a bit of wood cut to the right length.
Did I mention, never ever back load a trailer. :y
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Yep I know about not loading too much to the rear, thanks :) Iv been towing for a while...
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Yep I know about not loading too much to the rear, thanks :) Iv been towing for a while...
:y Apologies if it came across as patronising. :)
I've used 'doughnuts' on a previous car years ago. Still got them in the garage somewhere. :y As they limit the spring compression on the coils they are fitted to they did help. Some would argue that they put extra load on the non-restricted coils but they worked for me. Obviously no such issue if self levelling. :y
Good luck. :y
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You need to fit self levelling shocks, as said. Pump may have seized by now though, unless the fuses and relays where left in.
The differential between fully loaded weight and non loaded as far too great to achieve a usable balance. It would be like transit van territory but more so, where the transit only really works when Loaded. Make it work unloaded with softer suspension and it will bottom out.
The answer has to be a variable spring rate, which is what self levelling does. It's still compromised unloaded as it's looses some independence side to side, but it's the only reliable answer to your problem.
There is talk on here of an air bag in the springs option which would allow keeping standard shocks. But we don't have a proven part or supplier currently.
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@YZ250 - No need to apologise, I think my answer came across as quite arrogant, it wasn't meant that way..
What I should have said was that I have been towing for quite a while and I do know about not loading too much to the rear to combat snaking as it would act like a massive pendulum, thats what the stabiliser bar is for or is supposed to be for anyway....
@Chrisgixer - I will try the doughnuts and see if they help, if they do they will stay, if not then I'll have to source a pair of better air shocks as mine are looking a bit tired, looking at them last night they look past their best so might be on the lookout for a better conditioned pair...
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I thought a stabiliser was designed to keep a well balanced combination in check rather than to compensate for a poor set up :-\
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@YZ250 - No need to apologise, I think my answer came across as quite arrogant, it wasn't meant that way..
What I should have said was that I have been towing for quite a while and I do know about not loading too much to the rear to combat snaking as it would act like a massive pendulum, thats what the stabiliser bar is for or is supposed to be for anyway....
@Chrisgixer - I will try the doughnuts and see if they help, if they do they will stay, if not then I'll have to source a pair of better air shocks as mine are looking a bit tired, looking at them last night they look past their best so might be on the lookout for a better conditioned pair...
Are we talking extra spring pads under the springs? Is so you won't find one thick enough to make enough difference given your issues. And if you did the unloaded rear ride height would then suffer remember. Plus the profile of these really should be wedge shaped. Or they stress the spring unevenly. 10mm is not too bad, I have tried them, but you need about an inch thick, which risks spring falling out as the centre peg that holds the spring is about an inch high. The thickness of the pad is directly proportionate to the increase in ride height at the wheel to wheel arch.
Incidentally, how's the rear tyre wear with the pikey wagon hooked up?
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The use of the stabiliser is a bit of both really, but as above Iv been towing for quite a while and never had a mishap with a unit becoming unstable... especially when I was towing a few grands worth of JCB diggers around the country...
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@YZ250 - No need to apologise, I think my answer came across as quite arrogant, it wasn't meant that way..
What I should have said was that I have been towing for quite a while and I do know about not loading too much to the rear to combat snaking as it would act like a massive pendulum, thats what the stabiliser bar is for or is supposed to be for anyway....
@Chrisgixer - I will try the doughnuts and see if they help, if they do they will stay, if not then I'll have to source a pair of better air shocks as mine are looking a bit tired, looking at them last night they look past their best so might be on the lookout for a better conditioned pair...
Are we talking extra spring pads under the springs? Is so you won't find one thick enough to make enough difference given your issues. And if you did the unloaded rear ride height would then suffer remember. Plus the profile of these really should be wedge shaped. Or they stress the spring unevenly. 10mm is not too bad, I have tried them, but you need about an inch thick, which risks spring falling out as the centre peg that holds the spring is about an inch high. The thickness of the pad is directly proportionate to the increase in ride height at the wheel to wheel arch.
Incidentally, how's the rear tyre wear with the pikey wagon hooked up?
The spring assisters fit into the actual spring, they don't go underneath the spring at the spring bas, they are a basically a big piece of shaped rubber you can buy in various thicknesses and are shaped to fit the coil itself rather than replace a part of the coil. They basically help to stop the spring from compressing too much thus redusing the travel of the spring..
the rear tyres are wearing on the inner edges but that is because the suspension needs setting up for toe and camber, it doesn't wear too much TBH... at least no more than normal....
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Ah, I deleted the bit in assisters as on re reading you mentioned donuts, so thought you meant the pads underneath the spring.
Assisters sort of work, but do so by limiting the centre of the springs travel, which naturally means the end of the coil does more work, so makes the spring ends more likely to break off.
I doubt there's a single pikey (:P) on here that would fit assisters instead of self levelling. I hear what your saying with the shocks, but maybe just fit the levellers when towing :-\ or are they too far gone?
If you do replace the shocks I wonder if its worth painting the lower shock body, especially under the bladders, to get more life out of them. Posting dip? Hammerite? Powder coat? ....something anyway.
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I don't normally have any trouble towing on MV6 suspension. I've had the towbar ground a couple of times but only on really uneven surfaces. With a sensible (i.e around 50kg) nose weight the rear suspension shouldn't ride too low at the rear, even given the MV6 lowered suspension. It will result in a lower than standard tow hitch, which will tend to give a further increase in nose weight, of course.
I wonder if your rear shock absorbers are a little tired. Whilst you only have the nose weight to add to the static load on the rear suspension, you have a lot more dynamic load in the extra mass that's attached to the tow bar, and it can tend to "bounce" over undulations in the surface. Only the car's rear shockers are there to control this oscillation, and if they are tired it may compress the suspension enough to bottom out.
Raising the suspension a little with assisters, etc. is not going to help if the main problem is that it's bouncing up and down. Just my 2p worth. :y
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I did wonder about the shocks being knackered but have come to the conclusion that they may be a bit old but not past it yet, as they still work as they should....
I'll fit the assisters when they get here, hopefully tomorrow and see what happens when Iv hitched up the caravan, hopefully it'll cure the problem or at least help with it, otherwise I'l be looking at getting a pair of rear air shockers as mine are a bit too far gone for a quick rub down and repaint - I think anyway.... possibly another excuse to buy something for me motor, thats what I'll be telling the missus anyway LOL
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My old CDX saloon had new springs on and with 3 in the back it was bottoming out on Norfolk roads, although new the springs appeared to be a bit weak, I had to tow a caravan that we had borrowed for the week (they took it up and set it up we then went up for a week and towed it home), I was a bit worried about towing and bottoming out possibly damaging the jockey wheel, so I found a car spares shop, picked up some spring assistors, fitted them and towed the caravan home with no issues.
They worked perfectly fine for many many miles after that and never had and issue with 3 adults in the back again.
Cheapest and easiest option that didn't really affect the car and without doubt should be the first port of call before swapping dampers over everytime you want to tow something.
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Where do we get spring assisters from
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My old CDX saloon had new springs on and with 3 in the back it was bottoming out on Norfolk roads, although new the springs appeared to be a bit weak, I had to tow a caravan that we had borrowed for the week (they took it up and set it up we then went up for a week and towed it home), I was a bit worried about towing and bottoming out possibly damaging the jockey wheel, so I found a car spares shop, picked up some spring assistors, fitted them and towed the caravan home with no issues.
They worked perfectly fine for many many miles after that and never had and issue with 3 adults in the back again.
Cheapest and easiest option that didn't really affect the car and without doubt should be the first port of call before swapping dampers over everytime you want to tow something.
Thankyou for that usefull reply :)
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Where do we get spring assisters from
Got mine off Ebay :) they haven't turned up yet but am hopeful they will be coming today as the weather looks to be staying dry... :)
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Where do we get spring assisters from
Got a new pair in the shed specifically for an Omega saloon, never got round to fitting them
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Do you want rid of them?
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Wish Id have known that earlier in the week ...... Grrrrrrrrrrrrr LOL
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Well I fitted the assisters and wow what a difference they make... and without any compromise to the ride quality :)
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Well I fitted the assisters and wow what a difference they make... and without any compromise to the ride quality :)
.....TWANGGGGGGGG..... TINKLE, tinkle..... ;D
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As posted earlier where do we get these from.
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Can have my new boxed pair for £12 inclusive of postage
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Well I fitted the assisters and wow what a difference they make... and without any compromise to the ride quality :)
.....TWANGGGGGGGG..... TINKLE, tinkle..... ;D
Shhhh
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Can have my new boxed pair for £12 inclusive of postage
If still available, I will have them, Rob :y
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Try something like this ;D ;D
link (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=125655.0)
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Well I can confirm that the spring assisters work 100% with no bottoming out at all, very happy now, just might reinstall the air suspension now :)
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Used both the donut type and auxilary springs on previous cars and in my opinion the best option by far are the auxilary springs by MAD that fit inside your main coils .These have the advantage of not being under load when driving solo but give good ride leveling when towing.Not cheap at over a ton a set but can be removed to use on other cars/sold or just left in a shed gathering dust( sounds familiar) .
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Bought some spring assisters but not sure how to fit does the cable tie go through both rubber loops and then around coil on spring or just through one loop.
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Mine didnt come with cable ties so cant help you on that but I would imagine they would attach to 1 part of the spring and not through both rubber rings otherwise it would stop the spring from working Id imagine....