Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: cem_devecioglu on 23 September 2014, 14:50:01
-
interesting gains for a small money
http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/engines-transmission/434265-bigger-bore-3-0-v6-x30xe-money-well-spent.html
however, still I would prefer turbo.. members with tig welding abilities and have the courage to cut slots on the block
can safely test 0.6, 0.7 bar pressures as its done.. but be careful about the wastegate :-X
-
I am not one to cast opinion on mods. but what this guys done seems a lot of effort and dosh for not that much gain. :-\
-
Hang on, let me re-phrase......
Would the extra 30bhp what he's done be noticeable?
-
Hang on, let me re-phrase......
Would the extra 30bhp what he's done be noticeable?
Yes you would know if you had found 30bhp :y
-
Hang on, let me re-phrase......
Would the extra 30bhp what he's done be noticeable?
Yes you would know if you had found 30bhp :y
fair enough henry. £1200 though......... :-\
-
Hang on, let me re-phrase......
Would the extra 30bhp what he's done be noticeable?
its originally a 2.5 engine (reply #7) .. but later bored out and stroke changed so really considerable gain imo (more than 30 hp).. but still I would prefer the turbo route.. :y
-
Hang on, let me re-phrase......
Would the extra 30bhp what he's done be noticeable?
Yes you would know if you had found 30bhp :y
fair enough henry. £1200 though......... :-\
£1200 for 30bhp is actually pretty good value for a modern engine, although Mark's suggestions on the other thread are probably just as effective and cheaper to do without the restrictions mentioned by the OP.
You could probably achieve about 300bhp from a decent V6, using aftermarket cams, ECU(which would rule out use in an Omega), throttle bodies , properly developed ported heads and exhaust headers/system. The snag is that you're going to spend about £10k doing it, and a 300bhp small block(of any brand) is about a fifth of that including the engine.
-
Fair enough chaps (and as mentioned i dont know much about modding).
just seemed expensive and time consuming. stocks the way to go ;)
-
That thread is a bit unusual as the op had the restriction of having to keep the original block (for engine number and engine ID) due to his location, could be done much cheaper here.
Actually, I see no reason why you cant use a custom ECU in the pre 2.6/3.2 Omegas as the earlier superior injection setup has very little in the way of communication with other systems.
-
a custom ecu can be used.. there are cheaper models.. however still you have to re-wire all new sensors from scratch and I think you -may- still have to keep original ecu.. seen a lot of cases like that :-\
full real standalones are expensive :-\
-
a custom ecu can be used.. there are cheaper models.. however still you have to re-wire all new sensors from scratch and I think you -may- still have to keep original ecu.. seen a lot of cases like that :-\
full real standalones are expensive :-\
Not too different to lpg then in installation terms :-\
-
a custom ecu can be used.. there are cheaper models.. however still you have to re-wire all new sensors from scratch and I think you -may- still have to keep original ecu.. seen a lot of cases like that :-\
full real standalones are expensive :-\
Not too different to lpg then in installation terms :-\
a bit similiar but requires more tuning mostly on dyno
-
a custom ecu can be used.. there are cheaper models.. however still you have to re-wire all new sensors from scratch and I think you -may- still have to keep original ecu.. seen a lot of cases like that :-\
full real standalones are expensive :-\
Not too different to lpg then in installation terms :-\
a bit similiar but requires more tuning mostly on dyno
You don't really need a dyno these days, to be honest. Fit a wideband lambda sensor and you can tune it on the road quite easily. My Westfield was converted from twin DCOEs to injection. DCOEs had had a couple of expensive rolling road sessions and much tinkering and still were never great. Fitted a Megasquirt and in an afternoon and about 30 miles on the road I went from no fuel map and a guessed ignition map to an engine that was running far better than it ever did on carbs. Much more flexible, a but more top-end power and a 50% increase in range for a tankfull of fuel.
OK, if you want to squeeze the last couple of horsepower out of it, then you need a dyno but, unless your corrections for baro pressure and temperature are absolutely spot on, you'll lose that edge as soon as the weather changes, so, IMHO, it's not worth chasing in the first place.
Something like a Megasquirt or Emerald will run a non-DBW V6 straight out of the box, probably with all the existing ancillaries.
-
a custom ecu can be used.. there are cheaper models.. however still you have to re-wire all new sensors from scratch and I think you -may- still have to keep original ecu.. seen a lot of cases like that :-\
full real standalones are expensive :-\
Not on the 2.5/3.0 setup Cem
The only vehicle signals are:
Deadlock 2 code from the immobiliser - Aftermarket ECU does not need this so no problems there
RPM signal to the rev counter - After market ECU's support this.
Power
Ground
All assuming its manual of course!
Its the ease of interfacing this that makes the 3.0/2.5 work so well as a transplant unit.
-
a custom ecu can be used.. there are cheaper models.. however still you have to re-wire all new sensors from scratch and I think you -may- still have to keep original ecu.. seen a lot of cases like that :-\
full real standalones are expensive :-\
Not on the 2.5/3.0 setup Cem
The only vehicle signals are:
Deadlock 2 code from the immobiliser - Aftermarket ECU does not need this so no problems there
RPM signal to the rev counter - After market ECU's support this.
Power
Ground
All assuming its manual of course!
Its the ease of interfacing this that makes the 3.0/2.5 work so well as a transplant unit.
hmmm.. that sounds like a plan :) however, I hear some negative comments on megasquirt :-\ and was looking at the AEM EMS series :P
by the way, I dont trust those tuners here that they can tune the car better than the factory :-\
-
a custom ecu can be used.. there are cheaper models.. however still you have to re-wire all new sensors from scratch and I think you -may- still have to keep original ecu.. seen a lot of cases like that :-\
full real standalones are expensive :-\
Not too different to lpg then in installation terms :-\
a bit similiar but requires more tuning mostly on dyno
You don't really need a dyno these days, to be honest. Fit a wideband lambda sensor and you can tune it on the road quite easily. My Westfield was converted from twin DCOEs to injection. DCOEs had had a couple of expensive rolling road sessions and much tinkering and still were never great. Fitted a Megasquirt and in an afternoon and about 30 miles on the road I went from no fuel map and a guessed ignition map to an engine that was running far better than it ever did on carbs. Much more flexible, a but more top-end power and a 50% increase in range for a tankfull of fuel.
OK, if you want to squeeze the last couple of horsepower out of it, then you need a dyno but, unless your corrections for baro pressure and temperature are absolutely spot on, you'll lose that edge as soon as the weather changes, so, IMHO, it's not worth chasing in the first place.
Something like a Megasquirt or Emerald will run a non-DBW V6 straight out of the box, probably with all the existing ancillaries.
Kevin, I have an AEM wideband .. however I have trust issues to tuners :-\
-
hmmm.. that sounds like a plan :) however, I hear some negative comments on megasquirt :-\ and was looking at the AEM EMS series :P
You always will, because it's a kit of parts, so only as good as the guy who builds it. ;) Too many people attempt to use it when they don't have the skills required, then present a loose collection of bits at their local rolling road, who wonder why they can't tune it properly. ::)
I have done around 40,000 miles with one under the bonnet, and it hasn't missed a beat.
by the way, I dont trust those tuners here that they can tune the car better than the factory :-\
If you're worried about that then you're stuck with factory power output. ;) The reality is that nobody can tune a car "better" than the factory, because they will have the resources to put a load of engines in test cells for months on end and really refine it. Hiring a rolling road for the afternoon is no comparison.
Having said that, the factory have different aims when tuning their engines. If you don't care how well your map works in Saudi Arabia, or the Yukon, don't need to pass EU emissions testing, don't have to generate impressive CO2 emissions figures for the fleet managers, don't have to warranty the engine for years, don't have to consider pikeys towing caravans over mountain passes..... Actually, it's very easy to teach yourself engine mapping and surprisingly easy to get great results.
-
hmmm.. that sounds like a plan :) however, I hear some negative comments on megasquirt :-\ and was looking at the AEM EMS series :P
You always will, because it's a kit of parts, so only as good as the guy who builds it. ;) Too many people attempt to use it when they don't have the skills required, then present a loose collection of bits at their local rolling road, who wonder why they can't tune it properly. ::)
I have done around 40,000 miles with one under the bonnet, and it hasn't missed a beat.
by the way, I dont trust those tuners here that they can tune the car better than the factory :-\
If you're worried about that then you're stuck with factory power output. ;) The reality is that nobody can tune a car "better" than the factory, because they will have the resources to put a load of engines in test cells for months on end and really refine it. Hiring a rolling road for the afternoon is no comparison.
Having said that, the factory have different aims when tuning their engines. If you don't care how well your map works in Saudi Arabia, or the Yukon, don't need to pass EU emissions testing, don't have to generate impressive CO2 emissions figures for the fleet managers, don't have to warranty the engine for years, don't have to consider pikeys towing caravans over mountain passes..... Actually, it's very easy to teach yourself engine mapping and surprisingly easy to get great results.
thats good news.. will check for the documentation :y
ps: power is currently around 180 hp and seems more than enough for a small car.. and to my surprise fuel is less than before as the pipes are long and I dont hammer frequently ;D