Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: kluku5 on 27 September 2014, 11:31:05

Title: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: kluku5 on 27 September 2014, 11:31:05
I know these have been talked about before, but I really wanted to verify.

First off the symptoms:
 Runs fine when engine cold, but really lumpy idle (eventually dies) when engine warm. Sometimes when driving off, the car hesitates, like it would get too much fuel, or like some cylinders wouldn't fire. Also poor pull if doing kickdown.

I used to have oily plugs and wells before, changed the gaskets to genuine Opel ones, checked plugs 1 and 3 (easiest access) and they are dry now. Also changed all the plugs.

So yeah, idle is f***ed up, so I checked the codes and got these. Now, is it certain that with these codes and veeery lumpy idle, that the problem is the crank sensor?

Oh, the car is 3.0 auto.

Thank you :)
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: 4x4 on 27 September 2014, 12:00:07
When was coil pack and ht leads last changed?
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: kluku5 on 27 September 2014, 12:03:33
Last year around Christmas I think
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: kluku5 on 28 September 2014, 09:33:08
So what do You think, can the sluggish drive off be associated with crank sensor, or does it look more like DIS pack?
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: Temetsy on 28 September 2014, 09:53:25
Check the resistance of leads and resintance of DIS pack. Sounds exactly same as when i had my DIS broken, threw up the "lambda open loop" code too..
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: TheBoy on 28 September 2014, 09:56:19
The 19 is generally conclusive.

89 is rear multiram IIRC?
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: Temetsy on 28 September 2014, 10:01:21
" 89   O2 Sensor 2 Open Circuit ". I thought crank sensor failure includes only difficult starting and cutting off? Might be crank sensor but still worth checking leads and DIS :)
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: kluku5 on 28 September 2014, 10:22:10
I remember someone here said that when cranck sensor fails it usually throws up the lambda code too.

I agree the DIS pack and leads should be checked. I did notice a drop of water around that area after it rained ...

But, don't go crazy, the cranck sensor I have at the moment, is not a genuine one, since at the time I bought it, I also needed a shitton of other stuff for the engine aswell so yeah
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: Temetsy on 28 September 2014, 10:34:52
But, don't go crazy, the cranck sensor I have at the moment, is not a genuine one
I think we've found the fault  ::)
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: TheBoy on 28 September 2014, 10:39:31
I remember someone here said that when cranck sensor fails it usually throws up the lambda code too.

I agree the DIS pack and leads should be checked. I did notice a drop of water around that area after it rained ...

But, don't go crazy, the cranck sensor I have at the moment, is not a genuine one, since at the time I bought it, I also needed a shitton of other stuff for the engine aswell so yeah
crank sensor rarely throws lamda codes. It often throws a MAF code (73/74)
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: kluku5 on 28 September 2014, 10:43:10
Hopefully it's the cranck sensor though, it is cheaper and easier to replace, but the water drop still makes me a bit nervous. I did seal the plastic wiper cover thingy with silicone, some water still gets through.
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: Temetsy on 28 September 2014, 10:46:08
Have you cleaned scuttle drains?
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: kluku5 on 28 September 2014, 10:50:24
Yes. Probably need to throw a bucket of water on the windshield, maybe I'll see where it comes through?
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: Temetsy on 28 September 2014, 11:00:20
Yes do that, or if yoy have garden hose etc. it will be even easier :y
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: kluku5 on 28 September 2014, 11:42:17
I had a search and it seems that testing the DIS pack without special tools wont reveal much. I guess I'll just have to replace them both, starting from the cheaper one.
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: Temetsy on 28 September 2014, 12:06:59
If the code 19 is showing up the crank sensor is going to be toasted soon anyways if not already so that's where I'd start :)
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: kluku5 on 28 September 2014, 12:44:15
Yeah. I'll update when I have replaced that, after 1.5 weeks or so.
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: JasonH on 28 September 2014, 16:58:56
For me the 89 required a new lambda sensor. I think it was the left hand side of the car as you sit in it. They can be stubborn to get out, make sure the spanner is a very good fit and use plenty of penetrating oil.
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: Temetsy on 28 September 2014, 17:20:14
For me the 89 required a new lambda sensor. I think it was the left hand side of the car as you sit in it. They can be stubborn to get out, make sure the spanner is a very good fit and use plenty of penetrating oil.
It does also give lambda open loop if ignition is not working properly, I doubt fooked lambda would affect that much.. Just don't run it or you will destroy lambdas and cats. Do you get the "rich mixture" to MID assuming you have one?
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: TheBoy on 28 September 2014, 18:55:02
Do you get the "rich mixture" to MID assuming you have one?
Can you clarify what you mean?
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: Temetsy on 28 September 2014, 19:27:08
Do you get the "rich mixture" to MID assuming you have one?
Can you clarify what you mean?
When I had knackered DIS pack check controll always gave the "ablend rüchlich" (rich mixture in german) notification. Had so bad ignition that propably most of fuel came straight through the engine unburnt and the lambda just gave up trying to fix mixtures and went to open loop. At least I think so because after complete renewal of ign. system i've had no lambda-related fault codes nor check control telling me that mixture is rich ::)
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: TheBoy on 28 September 2014, 20:09:14
Do you get the "rich mixture" to MID assuming you have one?
Can you clarify what you mean?
When I had knackered DIS pack check controll always gave the "ablend rüchlich" (rich mixture in german) notification. Had so bad ignition that propably most of fuel came straight through the engine unburnt and the lambda just gave up trying to fix mixtures and went to open loop. At least I think so because after complete renewal of ign. system i've had no lambda-related fault codes nor check control telling me that mixture is rich ::)
Not on an Omega-B it didn't, the MID doesn't have the capability :(. Maybe another car?
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: Temetsy on 28 September 2014, 21:15:17
At least my b1 omega did give me that just few months ago :o You mean migs' check control shouldn't warn you of rich mixture?
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: kluku5 on 30 September 2014, 14:32:19
Ok so today due to various reasons I had to drive to work with my Omega (there and back about 180 km).

I noticed during red lights etc that the idle wasn't nearly as bad as it was some time ago. When it was bad however it was or had just rained, damp conditions.

I took a water hose and sprayed water on the windshield. What I saw was that not only did water drip straight onto the DIS pack, but it poured there, found that I have a missing scuttle clip.

I made it tight with silicone, still need to check if it's watertight now (over the weekend probably).

Now, I think the culprit is actually the DIS pack. What do You make of it?
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: kluku5 on 03 October 2014, 10:39:04
Quick question. Does the DIS pack need to be genuine? It's going to run me nearly 300€. If it can be a non genuine, what brands would you suggest?
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: Temetsy on 03 October 2014, 14:52:23
Pattern ones will do, tho i know a case where pattern DIS had plugs for plug leads marked wrong (1 was actually 5 etc.). But don't expect a pattern one to last too long ::) Try ebay with part number so you might find a reasonably priced genuine one :y
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: kluku5 on 16 October 2014, 20:09:43
I got a Bosch DIS pack from ebay, changed it and so far it seems the problems are gone :)
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: Temetsy on 18 October 2014, 14:13:53
Good to hear you got her up and running properly again :y
Title: Re: Codes 19 and 89
Post by: kluku5 on 21 October 2014, 04:49:02
Always good to hear it run smoothly, esp since with this car breakdowns are easy to come by :P