Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Shackeng on 10 October 2014, 18:04:10
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Having replaced the droplinks on the Elite, I am still getting the occasional mid range (ie not heavy or light) clunk from the front suspension. I have polys in the front, is it possible the rear bushes have gone? Is there a simple way to check these? It's done 57k on original wishbones. :-\ :-\ :-\
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Sometimes if you jack it up, you can see the rear in the rearward bush.
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Sometimes if you jack it up, you can see the rear in the rearward bush.
Not quite with you there Jaime. :-\
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Sometimes if you jack it up, you can see the rear in the rearward bush.
Not quite with you there Jaime. :-\
Sorry, tear! :-[. You can see the tear!
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Thks, I'll check. Still not sure if that is the issue. Any other thoughts as to the noise? :-\ :-\ :-\
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Ball joint perhaps :-\
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Anything could be loose, or worn. From a loose bumper to a worn wishbone ball joint. Or top mount bearings sticking if while turning.
If it's just dead ahead and over bumps then suspension joint would be my first concern.
If while turning then steering related. If that's not too obvious a statement.
Defo front?
Clonks have a habit of transmitting through the body.
Also worth checking steering box bolts are tight.
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And as TB says, with the car jacked up and road wheel removed, you can see the rearward bush, which should be stretched up and down on the inboard and outboard edges of the rubber as it's still attached and sound.
If it's failed enough to knock it will have allowed the wishbone to drop and touch the subframe, in which case the rubber will sit flat, as if the wishbone was level, as it's no longer attached to the metal surround which will be pointing down at an angle as the car is off the ground. Bit like a rose joint.
A partial failure rarely knocks, but the tear will be visible as a leafy looking piece of thin black rubber sticking up where it would normally be bonded on the outer edge.
If in doubt, take a photo and post it up. :y
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Chris checked the rear bushes on mine...needed bushes and idler. I bought genuine vauxhall rear bushes from my local dealer in march and they were £40.00 the pair. :y
I think he put a picture up on here, showing what knackered bushes look like :y
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Here's an ooooold thread
http://oldsite.omegaowners.com//forum/YaBB.pl?num=1300296371
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Have you tightened the drop links tight enough? I only ask cause on my last omega I thought I had but still clunked due to not being done up tightly :y
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Thanks for all that guys, up on the jacks tomorrow to check all that. :y :y :y
PS. & then stands!!!
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Right, both rear bushes are U/S, the offside is worst. My local friendly garage is pressing the new ones in as I speak. Droplinks are tight, so hopefully this will sort the knocking.
Any thoughts on whether the poly fronts are likely to assist in earlier failure of the rears? :y
New bolts from VX only come in packs of 3!!!, so £23 for 6 bolts and nuts. >:(
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Right, both rear bushes are U/S, the offside is worst. My local friendly garage is pressing the new ones in as I speak. Droplinks are tight, so hopefully this will sort the knocking.
Any thoughts on whether the poly fronts are likely to assist in earlier failure of the rears? :y
New bolts from VX only come in packs of 3!!!, so £23 for 6 bolts and nuts. >:(
Its never a nice feeling walking out the stealers with a sore ass :(
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You don't need the wb bolts. Re use the old ones if you wish.
It's better to replace the pinch bolts and nuts if anything. (Lemforder bones co e with these in the bag, for example)
Imo poly help the rearward bush last longer, as there is less give in the poly. This allows less yaw/twist on the rearward bush. To my thinking anyway.
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You don't need the wb bolts. Re use the old ones if you wish.
It's better to replace the pinch bolts and nuts if anything. (Lemforder bones co e with these in the bag, for example)
Imo poly help the rearward bush last longer, as there is less give in the poly. This allows less yaw/twist on the rearward bush. To my thinking anyway.
Thks Chris, I'm fitting the new bolts tomorrow anyway, and I'm afraid the pinch bolts will have to do further service. :-X :y :y :y
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I wonder if the poly bushes re direct some of the bigger jolts to the rear bushes... or rather, that by virtue of being softer, the rear bushes absorb more :-\
If the trade off for improved control is shorter rear bush life, then it's a small price to pay imho...
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I wonder if the poly bushes re direct some of the bigger jolts to the rear bushes... or rather, that by virtue of being softer, the rear bushes absorb more :-\
If the trade off for improved control is shorter rear bush life, then it's a small price to pay imho...
I think the rears seem to be less durable since having polys. Not sure if two are related, or if the rears have changed?
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I wonder if the poly bushes re direct some of the bigger jolts to the rear bushes... or rather, that by virtue of being softer, the rear bushes absorb more :-\
If the trade off for improved control is shorter rear bush life, then it's a small price to pay imho...
I think the rears seem to be less durable since having polys. Not sure if two are related, or if the rears have changed?
Nothing you experience since the demise of your original wishbones will ever live up to expectations. As I reacll anyway...?
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Well these are the original bones on 57K, and the rear bushes have probably been gone for about 2K, as the knocking which I thought was droplinks was almost the same after changing them.
The bolts arrived today in packets of 3 (BOLTS I said) but, as I should have checked, and should have expected with VX, without nuts. >:( >:( >:(, however, the nuts arrive tomorrow in....guess what? Packets of 2!!! :-X :-X :-X
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No need to replace bolts and nuts for this job. :y
Regarding the query of rear bush, looking at how they fail it appears to be due to rotation affects rather than side loading of the bush. If the front polys accelerated failure I would expect them to fail due to side loading.
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I wonder if the poly bushes re direct some of the bigger jolts to the rear bushes... or rather, that by virtue of being softer, the rear bushes absorb more :-\
If the trade off for improved control is shorter rear bush life, then it's a small price to pay imho...
I think the rears seem to be less durable since having polys. Not sure if two are related, or if the rears have changed?
Seems to be a bit chicken and egg :-\
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Did someone say chicken?
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110818090648/bttf/images/5/56/Are_you_chicken.png)
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I've never seen a rearward bush fail in any other way regardless of the front bush being rubber or poly. That being, in the direction of the travel of the wishbone movement. Ie, the inboard and outboard edges of the bush tear away from the surround.
Bit like spoon bending. Bend a spoon back and forth and eventually it will brake through fatigue. This is the same except the rubber pulls away from the surround.
Or, rarely, rust gets in between the centre sapacer and the rubber.
But, always, it's the inboard and outboard edges of the rubber that pull away due to wishbone leverage fro the road wheel rising and falling.
The biggest affect on performance and life is the quality of the bush. Some of the cheap stuff fails in weeks, but in the same way.
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I wonder if the poly bushes re direct some of the bigger jolts to the rear bushes... or rather, that by virtue of being softer, the rear bushes absorb more :-\
If the trade off for improved control is shorter rear bush life, then it's a small price to pay imho...
I think the rears seem to be less durable since having polys. Not sure if two are related, or if the rears have changed?
Nothing you experience since the demise of your original wishbones will ever live up to expectations. As I reacll anyway...?
The first wishbone replacements on the bullet were good as well, gm :y
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I'm really sorry for bringing this up again but having the same issues with steering - ocasional clonk - felling wobbly when doing tight turn, I checked rear bushes today. Right rear bush has clearly gone.....after 7000 miles :-\ :'( Front are polly bushes. Pics follow
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g480/danzigfan1/Omega%20wax/IMAG0321.jpg) (http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/danzigfan1/media/Omega%20wax/IMAG0321.jpg.html).
Left one is fine
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g480/danzigfan1/Omega%20wax/IMAG0317.jpg) (http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/danzigfan1/media/Omega%20wax/IMAG0317.jpg.html)
Right one is clearly torn :-[
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Yep that's bollardsed.
Are those wishbones a matching pair though? The right side wishbone also appears to have a lot less weld around the bush metalwork.
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Those were bought as a pair, same package, same number - few months ago :o
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Name and shame...?
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Long gone sorry ;D, got both for 110e with a discount
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Looking at those welds, personally I'd bin those wishbones. Start again.
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My thoughts also...how can they fail so soon??!!? >:( You get what you pay for I guess... So as soon as possible my miggy needs cam belt change, tensioner, water pump, aux belt, cam shaft seals, crank shaft seal, new wishbones, a geo setup....ah the joy.... :-* :-X
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I forgot to mention that I fitted spring compressors this time and found it made the job of removing and refitting the knuckle ball joint pin much easier. :y :y :y
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I forgot to mention that I fitted spring compressors this time and found it made the job of removing and refitting the knuckle ball joint pin much easier. :y :y :y
With poly fitted it's much easier anyway.
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I forgot to mention that I fitted spring compressors this time and found it made the job of removing and refitting the knuckle ball joint pin much easier. :y :y :y
With poly fitted it's much easier anyway.
Struts out is the future... :y
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Which is what the socket method is for. ;)
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I forgot to mention that I fitted spring compressors this time and found it made the job of removing and refitting the knuckle ball joint pin much easier. :y :y :y
With poly fitted it's much easier anyway.
Struts out is the future... :y
??? ??? ??? ???
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I forgot to mention that I fitted spring compressors this time and found it made the job of removing and refitting the knuckle ball joint pin much easier. :y :y :y
With poly fitted it's much easier anyway.
Struts out is the future... :y
??? ??? ??? ???
I rebuilt the front of a members 3.0 estate yesterday... new shocks and top mounts, wishbones, drop links, track rods and discs/pads...
Shock nuts/top plate were removed before the car was jacked. Then up on stands, wheels off, brake caliper/disc off, droplink off, track rod off, strut out, hub off, wishbones then fall out...
Rebuilding, wishbone slots straight in, rebuilt strut located and held in place by top plate, hub refitted, then simply slot the hub into the strut and lever the arm down (by about two inches less than if you need the hub/strut to clear the ball joint), bolts in all done... No fuss, no drama... refit everything else, set camber using the socket method (as measured prior to starting). Bish, bash, bosh :y
King knackered now though ;D
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It is MUCH easier with the shock bolts undone/camber setting lost, ie if replacing shocks as well for example. As Al says, bish bash bosh
Although that depends if the drop links play nicely as well.
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It is MUCH easier with the shock bolts undone/camber setting lost, ie if replacing shocks as well for example. As Al says, bish bash bosh
Although that depends if the drop links play nicely as well.
Nothing a spot of gentle, er, persuasion couldn't sort out ::)
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I don't find fitting the strut to the wishbone to be a problem. Align the ball joint with the hole, use a long prybar to push the wishbone down and pop the two together.
As for drop links, be professional; if they don't loosen immediately lop the nuts off with the angle-grinder.
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I don't find fitting the strut to the wishbone to be a problem. Align the ball joint with the hole, use a long prybar to push the wishbone down and pop the two together.
As for drop links, be professional; if they don't loosen immediately lop the nuts off with the angle-grinder.
Only had to use the grinder on one nut... a first for me ::) the issue was fitting the new ones... (see separate thread) :y
But hardly had to lever the arm down at all to get the hub into the shock bracket.